PUA Purgatory

[Lowes]

EDIT: Hopefully this is the right board to put this question on. I considered putting it in the beginner's section but the question involves numerous elements so I figured it should go here.

I want to start off by saying how completely stoked I am to be a part of this community. I've been reading GC material for a few months and it's completely changed my viewpoint on all things women. I've always been obsessed with self-improvement so this site is seriously a treasure trove, hahaha. But I'm sure you hear this with every new user, so on to my question(s)!

Essentially, the best way to describe my situation right now is being in purgatory. By that, I just mean that I'm stuck in between two different extremes and I feel unable to do anything. I'm itching to finally start approaching girls, but there are things holding me back that I have no idea how to solve. Let me explain:

1. Sexy and I know it?

I've been working on my walk, voice, body language, wardrobe, etc. and I've seen great improvements in all of these fundamental areas. However, I am unable to grow any substantial facial hair (late bloomer haha) and, while I have some muscle, I am generally a thin guy. I know that thin guys can be sexy if they have the skills to back it up, but I'm worried that my lack of facial hair and muscle tone will make me look like an average nice guy.

2. I could just use public restrooms...

I'm in college, but I'm commuting from home this year. (Next year I'll live on/near campus.) My family has traditional Christian values and would not want me bringing girls home. I'm not nearly skilled enough to pull off a public lay or car lay. Also, I'm a virgin so the first few times would need to be somewhere I'm very comfortable, so going to her place would largely be out of the question. Basically, I have no place to have sex.

3. Hey, don't I know you?

My home town is pretty large, but I'm also fairly well-known, so I don't want to risk screwing up with someone then having to deal with a bad reputation here. Many people in my high school (who haven't yet graduated) could recognize me since I was involved in a lot of campus activities before I graduated, but I wouldn't recognize them if I were to approach in a mall or somewhere else, so I wouldn't want to accidentally hit on someone who knows me. Creepy...

4. Wait, is this legal?

I'm 18, which puts me in a very tough situation age-wise. Most girls in my town are from high schools, which means most of them are underage and clearly off-limits. But if I did happen upon a college girl, she'd likely be older and wouldn't be into me, since (I'm assuming?) girls don't like younger guys. And I look relatively young for my age so it'd be tough to find someone who's over 18 but also not old enough to dismiss me.

One final thing

I appreciate any potential solutions to these problems, but most of them seem too difficult to work around. It's not that I'm not committed, it's just that I have another plan that would require less problem-solving.

My plan is to wait to start pickup until I'm at college this fall. Over this summer, I will work on my fundamentals religiously and read as much GC info (and info from the mastery pickup package) as possible. I realize that the best way to learn is by doing, but given my current issues I don't think that's possible. But, you guys know more than me; maybe there is a way.

One last question, though. I still do not know what my logistics will be for college.

Should I get a studio so I can have sex on my own terms? It would be great, but expensive.

Should I get an apartment with someone and time my lays for when they are gone? Or I could try to find someone who's chill with me just having sex, but to be honest, I wouldn't want them bringing over girls themselves since I like having things on my own terms. So it'd be double standard on my part. Also, I don't know too many people I could room with (they already have roommates) so I'd basically have to randomly find a roommate and hope that he's cool with it.

Maybe I could use a frat house? I haven't joined a frat yet, but I definitely could. However, I wouldn't want to join a frat that's only about partying and sex (I want more balance) but I also don't want a boring frat where nothing happens. It seems difficult to find a frat that fits in between these two parameters.

I honestly have no idea what type of place to get, but I'd like a way to easily get girls into bed without having to deal with other people to give me privacy and save my reputation. And I don't want to break the bank just to pick up girls.

I'd love any advice I can get! I often have trouble getting things in motion so finally solving these problems and actually approaching girls would be amazing.

 

[Smith]

Welcome to the forum Lowes,

Just want to point out a few things

My plan is to wait to start pickup until I'm at college this fall. Over this summer, I will work on my fundamentals religiously and read as much GC info (and info from the mastery pickup package) as possible. I realize that the best way to learn is by doing, but given my current issues I don't think that's possible. But, you guys know more than me; maybe there is a way.

One last question, though. I still do not know what my logistics will be for college.

Should I get a studio so I can have sex on my own terms? It would be great, but expensive.

Should I get an apartment with someone and time my lays for when they are gone? Or I could try to find someone who's chill with me just having sex, but to be honest, I wouldn't want them bringing over girls themselves since I like having things on my own terms. So it'd be double standard on my part. Also, I don't know too many people I could room with (they already have roommates) so I'd basically have to randomly find a roommate and hope that he's cool with it.

Don't wait bro. I don't know how good you are with women already, but if you're new to this then you should start now because, let's face it, it's not like you'll start getting laid and pulling girls home immediately, although it certainly doesn't hurt to believe in yourself If worse comes to worst and you have no place to pull, then be a little creative and just do public sex...you don't even have to pull lol

Regarding your logistics, I'm currently living in a studio to avoid the issue of being interrupted by flatmates. I have flat with my mates before and I think living with your mates is great, but like you said, when you're sharing a living space with someone else, friction tends to occur if they don't understand or appreciate you bringing girls over (vice versa). Flat drama can be annoying too. However, if these guys are cool with you bringing girls over, then you have to be cool with them bringing girls over as well. The downside of living a studio is it's expensive, and maybe you'll be a little isolated depending on where you get the place. Since it's your first year of college, I would choose somewhere close to the campus to stay close to the scene. I have a few friends who live pretty far away from the campus and they regretted not moving closer for their first year of college.

 

[ray_zorse]

+1 Smith, but dude the thought that really occurs to me reading your summary is that you are definitely overthinking shit. It is great you have done some work on your fundamentals, and this will really help, but IMO the #1 most important fundamental is... your conversation.

Answer me this:
1. Meeting any random person (lets say for instance, you get home and your mum introduces you to her old school friend who has come to visit... I don't necessarily mean cold approach)... can you introduce yourself and sustain a conversation for 5 minutes, reliably, every time?
2. When you converse with new (or newish) people, how much is the conversation about you and how much about them? In what circumstances would you share about you?
3. Can you get the other person to open up and share enthusiastically about themselves, their hobbies, passions, interests, future goals, dreams, career, achievements, ... Can you discover common interests by gently probing for them?
4. Can you lead the conversation where you want it to go, avoiding boring "standard questions" and making it interesting? Do you use humour and self deprecation? Do you compliment the other person and praise them a lot on the achievements they share that you consider valuable?

You will need to be able to do all these things, and do them on auto pilot while keeping track of things like how much time has passed, are you likely to be interrupted, is it a high point and hence time to ask them on a date, or time to move her, and where and how you will move her and planning the next step of the seduction generally.

Your conversation is simply the most important tool in your arsenal for controlling situations and having them go well. And you do not need a seduction location to practice this. You do not even need to be cold approaching, though you will progress much faster if you are. Practice your conversation with everybody you meet, starting now. Register chicks, waitresses, salesgirls, your teachers, everyone. Even if you are doing your weekly shopping etc, you can afford a few mins to chat with the checkout chick (you will soon progress to getting physical with her, squeezing her muscles if she's passionate about gym, etc). Also check out the newbie assignment and make a plan to tackle day 1 sometime in the coming weeks. No excuses.

Ray

 

[Drck]

The above are good answers, also:

1. You don't have to have facial hair, you don't have to have muscles and nice clothes, and you can still be sexy. What you have to have is BELIEF that you are sexy. However, don't wait till you believe that you are sexy, you should start approaching now

2. Try not to over-think things, you are making too many incorrect conclusions thus you limit yourself. For example, your family may go out of the town and you'll have the whole place for yourself. She also has family, she also have some place. If a girl is really interested in you she will actually find place herself

3. Well, it is either your reputation of being a Nice Guy who is not getting laid because he is afraid what others think of him, or it is getting laid with hot girls. Nobody can make the decision for you

4. Yes, you should be very careful (for your own good), because the current legal system is fucked up. For example, we used to laugh (y ears ago back in my country) when a young guy 16-17 years ld nailed his hot teacher, it was mutual and he was 'the man'. Nobody made a big deal out of it. Today's system would probably make the teacher a criminal, the student would be a "victim", and she would go to a jail for years. What a nonsense.

The final thing, try not to look for problems, and try to avoid worrying about different things. By seeking problems you will find out lots of them, and then you will start limiting yourself. Many people create problems in their heads, and then they have the urge to solve them. Keep it open, you just never know...

 

[Lowes]

Thanks for the replies. A recurring theme I noticed was how I was overthinking things and creating too many problems in my head. This is one of my biggest flaws and I'm currently working on staying calm and just doing instead of constantly planning. My goal is to get out of my head and just live life.

Don't wait bro. I don't know how good you are with women already, but if you're new to this then you should start now because, let's face it, it's not like you'll start getting laid and pulling girls home immediately, although it certainly doesn't hurt to believe in yourself If worse comes to worst and you have no place to pull, then be a little creative and just do public sex...you don't even have to pull lol

Regarding your logistics, I'm currently living in a studio to avoid the issue of being interrupted by flatmates. I have flat with my mates before and I think living with your mates is great, but like you said, when you're sharing a living space with someone else, friction tends to occur if they don't understand or appreciate you bringing girls over (vice versa). Flat drama can be annoying too. However, if these guys are cool with you bringing girls over, then you have to be cool with them bringing girls over as well. The downside of living a studio is it's expensive, and maybe you'll be a little isolated depending on where you get the place. Since it's your first year of college, I would choose somewhere close to the campus to stay close to the scene. I have a few friends who live pretty far away from the campus and they regretted not moving closer for their first year of college.

Yeah man, I never thought of it that way. I don't want to waste these months just reading and not doing anything. My problem with public sex is that I'm a virgin so it'll take some time getting comfortable in the first place before I can pull it off, haha. It's definitely on my list though.

I know there are some studios nearby my campus, so if they're relatively cheap I'll try to get one.

Regarding flats, how do you recommend I find a roommate who's cool with it? Most of my on-campus friends have chosen roommates already, so my only option is to do a roommate search. While doing this, how would I even find a cool roommate in the first place? Should I message them privately and ask if they're cool with it? Just hope for the best? I don't want to be a dick and bring over girls if the guy's really against it. I might just have to wait until he's away at class or something, though.

And being okay with them also bringing over girls -- that's on me. Instead of thinking of it negatively (this is out of my control), I'm going to put a positive spin on it (sweet, I'll have a bro who can be my wingman and help me improve my game).

+1 Smith, but dude the thought that really occurs to me reading your summary is that you are definitely overthinking shit. It is great you have done some work on your fundamentals, and this will really help, but IMO the #1 most important fundamental is... your conversation.

Answer me this:
1. Meeting any random person (lets say for instance, you get home and your mum introduces you to her old school friend who has come to visit... I don't necessarily mean cold approach)... can you introduce yourself and sustain a conversation for 5 minutes, reliably, every time?
2. When you converse with new (or newish) people, how much is the conversation about you and how much about them? In what circumstances would you share about you?
3. Can you get the other person to open up and share enthusiastically about themselves, their hobbies, passions, interests, future goals, dreams, career, achievements, ... Can you discover common interests by gently probing for them?
4. Can you lead the conversation where you want it to go, avoiding boring "standard questions" and making it interesting? Do you use humour and self deprecation? Do you compliment the other person and praise them a lot on the achievements they share that you consider valuable?

You will need to be able to do all these things, and do them on auto pilot while keeping track of things like how much time has passed, are you likely to be interrupted, is it a high point and hence time to ask them on a date, or time to move her, and where and how you will move her and planning the next step of the seduction generally.

Your conversation is simply the most important tool in your arsenal for controlling situations and having them go well. And you do not need a seduction location to practice this. You do not even need to be cold approaching, though you will progress much faster if you are. Practice your conversation with everybody you meet, starting now. Register chicks, waitresses, salesgirls, your teachers, everyone. Even if you are doing your weekly shopping etc, you can afford a few mins to chat with the checkout chick (you will soon progress to getting physical with her, squeezing her muscles if she's passionate about gym, etc). Also check out the newbie assignment and make a plan to tackle day 1 sometime in the coming weeks. No excuses.

Ray

Overthinking shit is the story of my life, man, haha. I mean, damn, that's all I do. (Now I'm overthinking the fact that I overthink things... oh boy)

1. I'd say that roughly 70% of the time I can pull this off. Definitely room for improvement. The biggest thing holding me back is not knowing how to end it. Once a conversation starts, I think, "Shit, now I have to find a smooth way to end this." Any suggestions? Conversation otherwise is rather easy from me.

2. Even before finding GC, I always tried to keep the convo on the other person. I'd say it's about 50/50 right now. I can get them talking, but I also tend to mention things about myself. I've been getting much better and keeping important things to myself, however, which allows me more Byronic possibilities in the future.

3. I actually got a girl to do this recently (I'll make a post about that interaction later... I have some questions about it). I can generally get them to talk about stuff, but not extremely passionately. It's halfway between small talk and deep diving.

4. I'm good at leading the conversation when I try to, but I find I also tend to take a back seat and go with the flow if I'm not actively thinking about controlling it. This is because my mind is so preoccupied with figuring out how to end it. I use humor and self-deprecation well, but it's a weird situation regarding these two. I'm a naturally very funny and witty guy, which I can implement when practicing my talkative game. Most of the time, however, I opt for smooth game because I feel so damn powerful when using it. Keep in mind, I'm referring just to walking around and talking to people, not with taking girls home. When smooth, I feel afraid to use humor because it will seem incongruent. I'm not completely serious and I show that I have a lighthearted side, but the issue still remains. And I've never actively tried to try to relate interests, so that's a big one I'll work on.

I'll now devote myself to talking to anyone and everyone and rigorously improving my flaws in my conversations. The newbie assignment is now on my radar too.

The above are good answers, also:

1. You don't have to have facial hair, you don't have to have muscles and nice clothes, and you can still be sexy. What you have to have is BELIEF that you are sexy. However, don't wait till you believe that you are sexy, you should start approaching now

2. Try not to over-think things, you are making too many incorrect conclusions thus you limit yourself. For example, your family may go out of the town and you'll have the whole place for yourself. She also has family, she also have some place. If a girl is really interested in you she will actually find place herself

3. Well, it is either your reputation of being a Nice Guy who is not getting laid because he is afraid what others think of him, or it is getting laid with hot girls. Nobody can make the decision for you

4. Yes, you should be very careful (for your own good), because the current legal system is fucked up. For example, we used to laugh (y ears ago back in my country) when a young guy 16-17 years ld nailed his hot teacher, it was mutual and he was 'the man'. Nobody made a big deal out of it. Today's system would probably make the teacher a criminal, the student would be a "victim", and she would go to a jail for years. What a nonsense.

The final thing, try not to look for problems, and try to avoid worrying about different things. By seeking problems you will find out lots of them, and then you will start limiting yourself. Many people create problems in their heads, and then they have the urge to solve them. Keep it open, you just never know...

1. Good point. My lack of muscle and facial hair aren't holding me back... my mindset is. I've gotta just keep upgrading my game so I start feeling sexy.

2. Yeah, I at least have some alternatives. Although I was originally unsure about going to her place, that seems like the best option now. Hopefully it's not too far away, haha. I'm thinking that car sex in a discreet location would also be good.

3. People knew me as a cool guy... but also a nice guy. I'm afraid that I'll instead look like a creepy guy if I start mass approaching. But... if I slow open I could prevent this because of the low rejection rate. Because my goal is to be viewed as the sexy guy.

4. Yeah man, it's straight fucked. One day you're not legal then the next day you are? But it's out of my control, I just need to be wary. Any suggestions on finding the right girl, age-wise? I might approach a 17-year-old, for instance (if she looks 18), but how would I find out that she's underage so I can call it off? I really don't wanna stick my dick in the wrong place.

My goal is now to stop creating problems and start solving the ones I have.

Hey man, all of the above answers are really good. I just want to add that I would recommend living in the biggest party spots all through college and I would highly recommend joining a party frat. These things will make sharpening your social skills in college about 100x faster. Also, you'll make some lifelong friends living in college dorms your first year and everyone in those environments is inexperienced and experimental. It's a ton of fun that you will miss living by yourself. You shouldn't live by yourself until you've built a solid social network at your college. If you want the best way to get laid, the best way to find seduction mentors and get the best access to the hottest girls, join the best and most popular party frat that you can. You will get tons of resources from upperclassmen to do well in school. You will not have an issue doing both things even in a crazy frat as long as you don't fuck up and make partying your #1 priority. If getting laid by hot gis is your goal, joining a party frat is the best way to do it if you're not crazy smooth or a good looking natural.

College is different than real world and bars where you need cold approach. I highly recommend building a badass social circle and sprinkling in cold approach skills. Put yourself around the most people as you can all the time. Do not live alone. Even if you have lame roomies, you can learn to de with confrontation and handling problems it will be beneficial to you to be in a hallway walk from hot young ready girls for the taking. It will be easy to convince them to come to your place across the hall rather than your apartment far away. Just my 2 cents.

Radeng

Thanks dude, this is some critical stuff to know. In that case, I'll join a party frat and just self-regulate so I don't go too overboard. My plan is to meet as many people as possible and build a huge social circle. There are tons of places to have sex in frat houses, right? Haha forgive my inexperience, I had a sheltered childhood.

Also, I'll extend to you the question I asked Smith:

Regarding flats, how do you recommend I find a roommate who's cool with it? Most of my on-campus friends have chosen roommates already, so my only option is to do a roommate search. While doing this, how would I even find a cool roommate in the first place? Should I message them privately and ask if they're cool with it? Just hope for the best? I don't want to be a dick and bring over girls if the guy's really against it. I might just have to wait until he's away at class or something, though.

 

[ray_zorse]

Good one man, sounds like you're well on the way, but yeah, you do need more conversation practice. I'm curious as to why you are planning how to end your conversations while they're in progress? Usually I try to keep them going as long as possible, I guess maybe it's just that talking to a hot girl makes you feel uncomfortable? This is called sexual tension, as a seducer you're gonna have to know how to wield sexual tension to your advantage, and one thing you're gonna need is a strong stomach for it, so that you can ramp up the sexual tension and remain comfortable with it, while she feels it too and is the first to crack
Ray

 

[Chase]

Lowes-

To add one thought to an already solid list of responses, a personal anecdote related to Smith's advice of "don't wait": I waited, thinking I was going to hit the ground running as soon as I made it into college, and that this would be the magic fix: everyone partying, freewheeling, having fun, my own place, etc. I mean hey... people kept telling me that was how it was, anyway.

What actually happened was that I got to college early for a freshman summer session, discovered I had perfect logistics: my own room, completely to myself (roommate never showed up), nothing but freshmen all around me and nobody knew anybody else and everyone wanted to socialize, and I... retreated into my room and spent the summer as a recluse, furious at myself for buying the old "When X happens, THEN I will be able to Y" BS.

The lesson I had to discover the hard way was the guys who clean up in school aren't the ones who sit there idling, counting down in anticipation of how great it'll be, but the ones whose engines are already hot because they've been going around meeting people, partying, chatting up girls, and socializing before they even got there.

Start now, and you'll be warmed up for college when you get there. If you wait until you're already there, the more social guys will have a big head start, and you run an outsize risk of starting off with a handicap you don't need to have (and Future You won't much appreciate Present You for having saddled him with).

Chase

 

[Lowes]

Good one man, sounds like you're well on the way, but yeah, you do need more conversation practice. I'm curious as to why you are planning how to end your conversations while they're in progress? Usually I try to keep them going as long as possible, I guess maybe it's just that talking to a hot girl makes you feel uncomfortable? This is called sexual tension, as a seducer you're gonna have to know how to wield sexual tension to your advantage, and one thing you're gonna need is a strong stomach for it, so that you can ramp up the sexual tension and remain comfortable with it, while she feels it too and is the first to crack
Ray

I plan to end them because, although I have some solid social skills (which will be improved, as you said), I'm wary of being a social burden. Keep in mind, I'm talking about general conversations I have with people since I don't have much experience with women yet. I don't want to keep conversations going too long because I feel it will make me look needy/socially inept since people who won't stop talking can be perceived this way. For instance, I was talking to this guy in a waiting room the other day. We were both done with our appointments, but we started talking about some things like philosophy, health, psychology, etc. This went on for 20 minutes, but I ended it then because I didn't want this guy to think I was holding him up. He didn't give any clues of this, and we both enjoyed the conversation, but I know that people can sometimes be too polite to give signals that they want to leave, even if they like the conversation. And I didn't want to hold him for another 20 minutes or so. I basically have no idea how to gauge when others want me to leave and are just being polite or are actually interested, so it makes conversations somewhat stressful for me, even if I'm good at talking.

Also, I'm bad at ending things smoothly. I mean, how does one do this? This is the most stressful part of conversations for me. I can end convos (well, anyone can), but I just feel the need to make it end smoothly.

Interestingly enough, these problems seem to happen when I'm talking with normal people, but not with girls. Although I'm inexperienced, I've adopted the "I am the prize" mindset, so I feel like a badass around women. Kind of like how I behaved in the other post of mine you saw. For instance, I went to an information desk to get, well, info on some stuff. (Alas, my life may be too exciting for my own good). There were two girls there, so I made sure to deliberately use some pregnant pauses and make some really good eye contact.

The best way to describe my point of view is like this:

I can easily see James Bond having lengthy convos with girls he's just met. That's what he does -- he talks to and charms women. But would James Bond have lengthy convos with other people he meets? I don't see him doing this, because this, in my eyes, looks clingly. He'd have witty banter for a few minutes then say his goodbyes. He wouldn't keep a conversation going on for 20 or 30 minutes. That's how I see it.

So, in summary, I keep convos short because I don't want to seem like a social burden by not knowing when to end it or how to gauge others' interest in the convo, I'm bad at ending them smoothly, and there is a big difference with how I deal convos with girls and convos with everyone else.

Any suggestions?

To add one thought to an already solid list of responses, a personal anecdote related to Smith's advice of "don't wait": I waited, thinking I was going to hit the ground running as soon as I made it into college, and that this would be the magic fix: everyone partying, freewheeling, having fun, my own place, etc. I mean hey... people kept telling me that was how it was, anyway.

What actually happened was that I got to college early for a freshman summer session, discovered I had perfect logistics: my own room, completely to myself (roommate never showed up), nothing but freshmen all around me and nobody knew anybody else and everyone wanted to socialize, and I... retreated into my room and spent the summer as a recluse, furious at myself for buying the old "When X happens, THEN I will be able to Y" BS.

Yeah, that's the type of personality I have -- "When X happens, THEN I will be able to Y" is my dominating mindset, and it really holds me back in a lot of ways. Luckily, now it's on my radar as something to weed out and stop. And when I weed it out, THEN I can finally live a happy life. (I kid, I kid)

The exception I see to this (which I mentioned in another post of mine) is my sex game plan. I cannot bring myself to start having some lays without first fully researching and preparing myself for safe sex, having knowledge of the pill and STDs, etc. In this case, I feel that X (sex preparedness) absolutely must happen before Y (sex) can. As a virgin who's been sheltered his whole life, I just can't bring myself to take a girl to bed without being fully prepared -- too many risks. Once that's all taken of, though, I will move forward. I realize this now.

The lesson I had to discover the hard way was the guys who clean up in school aren't the ones who sit there idling, counting down in anticipation of how great it'll be, but the ones whose engines are already hot because they've been going around meeting people, partying, chatting up girls, and socializing before they even got there.

Start now, and you'll be warmed up for college when you get there. If you wait until you're already there, the more social guys will have a big head start, and you run an outsize risk of starting off with a handicap you don't need to have (and Future You won't much appreciate Present You for having saddled him with).

Hahaha, wouldn't want to miss out on all the fun! I'll make sure to build up some long-term social momentum, then, since I have big plans for next year. Wouldn't want any handicaps to hold me back.

Regarding this social momentum, however -- How do you recommend I build this up as quickly as possible? Should I focus on getting girls now, then also transition into some general social activity when on campus? Or focus on chatting up everyone I see, so that I'm in a social mood when I'm down there?

As always, I appreciate the help.

 

[Troy]

Regarding this social momentum, however -- How do you recommend I build this up as quickly as possible? Should I focus on getting girls now, then also transition into some general social activity when on campus? Or focus on chatting up everyone I see, so that I'm in a social mood when I'm down there?

Talk to EVERYONE and learn to have fun. It's far better to go out and talk to cashiers, street guys, gangsters, lunch ladies, coke heads, religious people, children, sweet little girls, college chicks , EVERYBODY. Learn to appreciate them as they are and understand where they are coming from. Deep dive, share stuff with them, and joke around. The stage you are at is where you need to stop over thinking and start acting. I don't think it matters who you talk to, as long as you are practicing the #1fundamental which is conversation.

If you wait till college all the social guys will clean up while you look at them pitifully. Trust me I've heard enough stories and it ain't nice. That's why I am busting my ass to get as much experience NOW. By the time I start college I set the goal to be decently calibrated.

Continue working on your fundamentals especially conversation : learn to relax under pressure, tease, make others laugh, get people to share their deepest secrets (my greatest talent, I keep secrets for a lot of people. Even some of their best friends don't know). Get out there and first have fun (or try to). Last thing:note I said talk to everyone, don't make girls your only focus for improvement. Life, laugh, love, ENJOY LIFE.

By the time college comes around you'll be in tip top shape.

Troy

 

[Lowes]

Regarding this social momentum, however -- How do you recommend I build this up as quickly as possible? Should I focus on getting girls now, then also transition into some general social activity when on campus? Or focus on chatting up everyone I see, so that I'm in a social mood when I'm down there?

Talk to EVERYONE and learn to have fun. It's far better to go out and talk to cashiers, street guys, gangsters, lunch ladies, coke heads, religious people, children, sweet little girls, college chicks , EVERYBODY. Learn to appreciate them as they are and understand where they are coming from. Deep dive, share stuff with them, and joke around. The stage you are at is where you need to stop over thinking and start acting. I don't think it matters who you talk to, as long as you are practicing the #1fundamental which is conversation.

In this case, having convos with anyone and everyone will be my priority.

Continue working on your fundamentals especially conversation : learn to relax under pressure, tease, make others laugh, get people to share their deepest secrets (my greatest talent, I keep secrets for a lot of people. Even some of their best friends don't know). Get out there and first have fun (or try to). Last thing:note I said talk to everyone, don't make girls your only focus for improvement. Life, laugh, love, ENJOY LIFE.

My goal is to enjoy life as much as possible so this is great to hear. People and interactions are the things that make up our lives, so I'll make sure to master of all these things!

 

[ray_zorse]

About your ending-the-conversation issue, this will naturally cease to be an issue when you start adding pauses and paying attention to investment levels. If I feel she is not investing (not answering questions fully, not sharing, not asking reciprocal questions, etc) then I'll stop leading the conversation temporarily and let a silence develop... maybe I'll be thoughtfully nodding at the last thing she said, as if considering it at length... if I feel the lack of investment is drastic I might look into the distance briefly or check my phone... this signals to her that if she fails to invest, the conversation will be over. After two or three really long pauses I might say "Oh, well, nice to talk to you" or similar, but 90% of the time she feels a pressure to fill the silence by investing, thus tacitly acknowledging she wants the conversation to continue. However, in cold approach usually the conversation is ended by circumstances, the most intelligent handling of which is an area where you need to think ahead a little sometimes. Luckily this becomes second nature with experience and practice.
Ray

 

[Chase]

Lowes-

The exception I see to this (which I mentioned in another post of mine) is my sex game plan. I cannot bring myself to start having some lays without first fully researching and preparing myself for safe sex, having knowledge of the pill and STDs, etc. In this case, I feel that X (sex preparedness) absolutely must happen before Y (sex) can. As a virgin who's been sheltered his whole life, I just can't bring myself to take a girl to bed without being fully prepared -- too many risks. Once that's all taken of, though, I will move forward. I realize this now.

Cart before the horse here.

That's like saying I can't start a business now, I haven't figured out how I'm going to invest my millions.

Start practicing throwing the football first. Decide what your Superbowl victory dance will look like later.

Otherwise, you very quickly end up in the situation where it's game time but you waited until it was real before ever touching the ball. The winning players practice before the game begins.

Chase

 

[Lowes]

About your ending-the-conversation issue, this will naturally cease to be an issue when you start adding pauses and paying attention to investment levels. If I feel she is not investing (not answering questions fully, not sharing, not asking reciprocal questions, etc) then I'll stop leading the conversation temporarily and let a silence develop... maybe I'll be thoughtfully nodding at the last thing she said, as if considering it at length... if I feel the lack of investment is drastic I might look into the distance briefly or check my phone... this signals to her that if she fails to invest, the conversation will be over. After two or three really long pauses I might say "Oh, well, nice to talk to you" or similar, but 90% of the time she feels a pressure to fill the silence by investing, thus tacitly acknowledging she wants the conversation to continue. However, in cold approach usually the conversation is ended by circumstances, the most intelligent handling of which is an area where you need to think ahead a little sometimes. Luckily this becomes second nature with experience and practice.

I like to use pregnant pauses, so I'll start implementing this right away.

Cart before the horse here.

That's like saying I can't start a business now, I haven't figured out how I'm going to invest my millions.

Start practicing throwing the football first. Decide what your Superbowl victory dance will look like later.

Otherwise, you very quickly end up in the situation where it's game time but you waited until it was real before ever touching the ball. The winning players practice before the game begins.

Very good point. It seems this mindset is prevalent even more than I originally thought, so I'm absolutely certain now I need to fix this. Instead of all this inner turmoil I always experience, I need to act and then reflect. My ability to self-reflect is definitely a trait I'm glad to have, but I will now start reflecting after I act, instead of the other way around.

There's one thing I still don't understand, however. Say, after doing some mass cold approaching (which I feel ready to do now), I approach a girl soon and manage to get her number, get on a date, and bring her home. (After quite a few failures, of course, considering my skill level.) At this point, the natural thing I should do is escalate to sex. However, considering my X-then-Y mindset (which sadly won't be fixed overnight), I'll chicken out of sex since I don't yet feel ready. It's not the issue of my ability in bed, since I'll do some basic adapted missionary and learn more as I go. It's more of the safety issue, since I want to make sure I'm as protected as possible. Essentially, this "sex game plan" I keep referring to is trying on the proper condom size, getting carrageenan, researching the pill, knowing what certain STDs look like so I know what to look for, etc. So, per your advice, should I instead focus on getting a date, then worry about the safety when I have a solid chance of getting a girl in bed? I just don't want to feel rushed to figure out all this safety stuff in the heat of the moment, that's what I'm trying to get at.

Still, I appreciate the help. That's what I love about this site -- it shows me flaws I have that I never new existed and that fixing them is within my control.

 

[Chase]

Lowes-

There's one thing I still don't understand, however. Say, after doing some mass cold approaching (which I feel ready to do now), I approach a girl soon and manage to get her number, get on a date, and bring her home. (After quite a few failures, of course, considering my skill level.) At this point, the natural thing I should do is escalate to sex. However, considering my X-then-Y mindset (which sadly won't be fixed overnight), I'll chicken out of sex since I don't yet feel ready. It's not the issue of my ability in bed, since I'll do some basic adapted missionary and learn more as I go. It's more of the safety issue, since I want to make sure I'm as protected as possible.

I'd recommend you pick an objective you're aiming for, then don't go past it. e.g., "My objective is to get a girl to kiss me on a date / on the street / somewhere in public", etc. After that you'll thank her for a wonderful time and bid her farewell. Then go out the next night and try to repeat.

As for safe sex, read up on it:

• Dodging the Dangers of Sex (and Dating)
• How to Avoid STDs Even If You Have Lots of Sex
• How to Have Safe Sex with Women You've Just Met

Ultimately, there's no 100% sterile sex, since you're mashing skin and fluids together with another person. Condoms reduce the risk of fluid transmission pretty well, and condoms + carrageenan reduce skin transmission a fair bit, but there's always going to be risk.

At the same time, I'm reminded of the 1992 Damon Wayans film Mo' Money where one coworker is telling another about his STD fears, and the second coworker laughs and says, "You know what, you wouldn't be nearly as worried about this if you were actually having sex." Sex is dirty business, no two ways around it, and for some guys there's a certain amount of germophobia they need to get over before they can ever really immerse themselves into the act. Like any phobia, you can prepare as much as you want to not be afraid of heights or not be scared of snakes, but the only way you really get past it is by going and doing the things that scare you.

Chase

 

[Lowes]

Hey man, thanks for the reply. I haven't been on the forums in a few weeks so I just noticed this.

I'd recommend you pick an objective you're aiming for, then don't go past it. e.g., "My objective is to get a girl to kiss me on a date / on the street / somewhere in public", etc. After that you'll thank her for a wonderful time and bid her farewell. Then go out the next night and try to repeat.

I definitely might fall back on this. Luckily, I've managed to kick my hesitancy to have sex. I'm ready to go for lays now.

Ultimately, there's no 100% sterile sex, since you're mashing skin and fluids together with another person. Condoms reduce the risk of fluid transmission pretty well, and condoms + carrageenan reduce skin transmission a fair bit, but there's always going to be risk.

At the same time, I'm reminded of the 1992 Damon Wayans film Mo' Money where one coworker is telling another about his STD fears, and the second coworker laughs and says, "You know what, you wouldn't be nearly as worried about this if you were actually having sex." Sex is dirty business, no two ways around it, and for some guys there's a certain amount of germophobia they need to get over before they can ever really immerse themselves into the act. Like any phobia, you can prepare as much as you want to not be afraid of heights or not be scared of snakes, but the only way you really get past it is by going and doing the things that scare you.

Indeed; I'm beginning to realize that the rewards greatly outweigh the risks here. Would I rather run in fear of STDs, or be the man that girls dream about?

I recently read your article about becoming a "dirty man" -- another thing I'll keep in mind.