Question on Pre openers and why/how they work

[carlitos2055]

I understand pre openers start the girl out as being the chaser, but, If i tap a girl on the shoulder without making eye contact, letting her take a good look at me, then make eye contact, smile, and open. Wouldn't I be the chaser in her eyes since I did initially tap her shoulder? -Thanks in advance

 

[Estate]

For pre-opening you're not looking to *deliberately* grab her attention. It's more like *accidentally* forcing her to notice you.

There's a few ways it can happen but here's some:
- Eye contact when you're not right near her. If you lock eye contact across the bar for example, she has seem you and noticed you. Fundamentals play a big part... i.e. your eye contact is good and she notices you in a positve way. If you are near her later, she's more open to meeting you as she's already noticed you.

- Another is when you are near her. You don't want to deliberately tap her on the arm or shoulder. But consider you are talking to your buddy near the bar, it's busy-ish. She is standing right to your side. Maybe your arm brushes against hers, it's not a deliberate act like tapping someone's shoulder but your presence is now known to her.

A note on the second one though, you need to make sure its like an accidental thing. I see this being done by guys and girls pretty commonly, actually girls do it quite a lot. They get in your space or brush against you but pretend like they don't even notice you. Guys can be bad at it though, you can see them deliberately easing into a girls sapce, or touching her when it can't really be accidental because they are not in a situation where it could happen.
An example I see is like the one I mentioned above, where 2 guys are chatting, but one is edging backwards away from his buddy while they are talking, there's now a clear space between them like someone could walk through and he's clearly edging back because the girls are directly behind him. This might not come off well unless she already is looking for an excuse to meet you, in which case she might open, but if not, you look kinda weak.

It's a tactic I've seen on toher sites too under different names, usually something like "Forcing IOI's". It's really all about making her "accidentally" on purpose noticing you.

 

[carlitos2055]

That's good and thanks for the info, but in Chase's he talks about pre-open as something like bumping a girl playfully, looking at her then when she makes eye contact, break it and smile, and to put your hand on her shoulder and squeeze a few times. Am I missing something here?

 

[carlitos2055]

As in Chase's post it's clearly intentional

 

[Estate]

But it's not a "direct approach". It's a playful approach.

It's a way of grabbing her attention without a direct approach. It's a *pre* opener, not an opener... so you still have to open *after* it.

The one I mentioned is an example I read elsewhere but it's the same idea. Maybe you're standing near someone with a drink in your hand chatting to your friend. It's not un-usual you might accidentally brush against her at some point. As I said, girls do this ALL the time.But it just gets you on her radar. You still have to actually open her at some point.

Same with the bump. It's a little more deliberate I guess but it's still just a playful thing you can do and move on. If she sees you're just playing about with different people then she might notice you as just a fun guy kidding around. But you'll still have to actually talk to her at some point. The squeezing the shoulder thing... I'm not really sure about that... that's definitely more deliberate. But at that point I'm assuming you're going from the accidental or playful pre-opening right into opening her.

 

[carlitos2055]

Obviously all the examples I have said of pre openers are followed by an opener right after. Like 2 seconds later.. I think you're thinking I'm saying more of a pre open but not open just yet. Which is not what I was actually saying. Preopen-> Direct Opener

 

[Estate]

Opening: Directly interacting with someone.
Pre-Opening: What comes before, preferably in our case to have the person be aware of your presence, and potentially have assessed you positively, in the hope of the opening being more likely to receive a good reaction.

A pre-opener does not actually open the person. You still have to open. A pre-opener does not do this for you.

The situation will dictate whether the opening comes instantly after it, or it is a setup for later in the night.

e.g. You could just open a woman by walking right up and saying "Hi, I just saw you here......".
Or you could pre-open by brushing by her at the bar, then open by turning and saying "Oh, sorry about that, crowded in here, how's your night going?".

Alternatively your pre-open could be holding eye contact from afar. In this case distance between you prevents an instant opener, but she has now assessed you, a few minutes or while later when you are closer to her, you can open as normal.

I'm not sure what else I'm missing here unless you're asking for pre-openers that are a way of you not actually having to opener her but get her to do the work.
In that case, only pre-openers which are in her proximity will work. But there's no guarantees she will actually open you.

 

[carlitos2055]

I'm saying something in the lines of let's say, Tap girl on the shoulder, while looking forward, wait a second while she looks at you, then turn your head and make eye contact and smile for 2 seconds. Then say "I saw you walking and I had to tell you that... you have the most beautiful hair I've seen all day, I'm Carlos.

Something Like that is what I'm thinking of.

 

[Franco]

carlitos,

There has been some debate on the forum before about what exactly a pre-opener is, and based on Chase's article(s), I've seen arguments that can go both ways. Personally, I've considered pre-openers to be something that occurs before you actually engage the girl in a conversation with you. This would be, as Estate mentioned, making eye contact from across the room. If I tap a girl on the shoulder, then I consider that to be "opening" her as you are doing that to engage in a conversation with her. However, some people would consider the "tap" as a pre-opener and the actual "hello" as the opener. It's pretty irrelevant either way as long as you understand the purpose.

I tend to use "physical" openers (such as tapping on the shoulder, placing my hand on a girl's lower back, or placing my hand on her elbow) when I'm in loud environments, such as nightclubs or bars. Often times if you try to open a girl on just your voice alone (if she isn't facing you), then you either have to raise your voice to an unpleasant-sounding and unsexy level, OR you risk saying something and having her not even hear you. This is why opening her with direct contact to get her attention and then actually introducing yourself works well.

For day game, I'll mostly open the girl with a verbal cue, assuming I'm within earshot of her. I may pre-open her beforehand by making eye contact and smiling, and if I get a positive response, follow up with an actual opener (direct/indirect/situational). The nice thing about a pre-opener is that it takes her guard down so you don't risk "scaring" her by opening her in a situation where she wasn't expecting to be opened. She'll be pleasantly surprised if a guy she smiles back at (and probably finds attractive) suddenly walks up to her and introduces himself!

- Franco