Question to the pros about the true nature of the game and women

[King]

Man where to begin...

The more I play this game I'm realizing its all about being non-needy and not giving a f*ck and making your moves properly. The more emotional you get or needy you get it completely ruins the whole thing. But this can't be the true nature of it? F*ck man this realization actually made me somewhat miserable. I already knew girls don't give a f*ck about men or their "feelings" but seriously? Feels like the less f*cks I give the better I can play the game and the more women will get attracted. The less shits I give the more responsive the girl is. The more emotional/ falling for the girl I get the more it pushes them away ugh... But this realization is kind of killing that good guy in me who wanted to fall for the awesome girlfriend and its all good. I'm sure many of you had realizations of women that killed your old beliefs and perhaps a part of you as well....... How'd you guys get over it or grow or get to a higher place?

I'm tired of being in my feels and I just don't know or care anymore, but this feeling is f*cked up. I guess I have to fully kill the nice guy in me that wanted to fall in love. Cold hearted it is? Be the man be the player and don't fall in love at all? What another cold hard truth of life.

Frame control+ smooth talk+ non needy/being cool = winning?

Man these girls got me fed up... FUCK.......

This is like the start of my villain origin story.. lol.. But seriously I need to get over this shit

Insights and stories are welcome

 

[HoofHearted]

Not a pro. Here's some thoughts.

ut this can't be the true nature of it? F*ck man this realization actually made me somewhat miserable. I already knew girls don't give a f*ck about men or their "feelings" but seriously? Feels like the less f*cks I give the better I can play the game and the more women will get attracted. The less shits I give the more responsive the girl is. The more emotional/ falling for the girl I get the more it pushes them away ugh... But this realization is kind of killing that good guy in me who wanted to fall for the awesome girlfriend and its all good.

I think this is because most men's idea of 'love' is skewed. Even infantile and self-centered. Women can be quite considerate of men's feelings-- but when your standard is absolute attendance/co-dependency, an even partially healthy person will not tolerate that.

Most men are used to being loved as a child is loved, and maybe expect that. Part of growing up is accepting love as a man is loved.

A child is love absolutely for what he is. A man is loved conditionally for what he does.

That sounds brutal, but it isn't quite the truth. Many women will still offer you love and care when you fail as a man... but it's not what you're after, since the sexual dynamic will be missing. A number of decent women will offer you the love and care they'd give a wounded dog or an upset toddler, and I would hope this offends you greatly-- because you're a man.

Beyond that, if a woman really believes in you and is sexual with you, you may even be surprised when you fail as a man... and they stick around to help pick up the pieces. It can't and shouldn't be expected, but sometimes you get a peek into the pinnacle of femininity. Some of the amazing ones do stay when they should be long gone, and there is no arithmetic or analysis for this.

I'm tired of being in my feels and I just don't know or care anymore, but this feeling is f*cked up. I guess I have to fully kill the nice guy in me that wanted to fall in love. Cold hearted it is? Be the man be the player and don't fall in love at all? What another cold hard truth of life.

Sensible women won't fall for that, either. You still lose.

Maybe you don't know the first thing about giving love to, or receiving love from, a woman. And that's okay. It comes with time and experience. It's okay if you have hurt feelings while you learn this, sometimes. Hurt feelings are a fact of life. Hurt feelings are a part of the journey. Because the journey never ends, there will always be hurt feelings sometimes.

Frame control+ smooth talk+ non needy/being cool = winning?

You know, I've been thinking about this. Specifically the concept of 'winning' and why it doesn't sit right with me.

I don't think there is a 'winning.' All we're doing is trying to ride a wild horse. The horse throws us off sometimes, and it hurts. But we gain experience and learn to ride better and get thrown off less often. We start to feel, experience new things with the horse. We start to learn more about the horse. And there's always more to do. There's nothing to 'win,' there's only 'riding better.' That's what I think...

 

[ulrich]

Not indifference but abundance.
Thats the name of the game.

Pros are non-reactive to bullshit, have tamed emotions and keep their cool because they know any girl can be replaced.

Think of an emperor who has riches to spare and all the sex he wants… will he get needy for a business deal that doesn’t work or a woman who tries to play games on him?
No, he doesn’t need them. He can lose them and still be an emperor.

You can be a great guy, have a heart of gold and fall in love.
As long as you are in abundance… if it doesn’t work, well… you just go for the next one.

For example, I know perfectly how to play games and have pretty good frame control… yet, I prefer girls who are sweeter and don’t need to constantly be outsmarted.
If I meet a girl who is constantly challenging me, I just think to myself: “Alright, this one will only be good for a ONS. Need to look for a new one after this.”

 

[ElderPrice]

No, you have it a bit off. It's not so much that you shouldn't fall in love with a girl, it's more so understanding the appropriate timing. Falling in love with a girl makes sense when she's EARNED IT. A girl earns it by submitting to you, following you, supporting you, and actually making your life easier. This is someone you'd ACUTALLY be proud to introduce to your friends and family. This is probably something that takes, I dunno, a year or two, for her to properly demonstrate to you, repeatedly, over time.

The way you're hinting at your experiences 'falling in love,' it sounds like you're catching feelings WAY too early, before she's done anything substantial to earn them. A man has NO BUSINESS catching feelings because a girl agrees to a first date (duh), or multiple dates, or she plays with your dick a few times. If you are falling for girls after just sleeping with them and hanging out with them, this is definitely a problem that girls will notice and cause you to "ruin the whole thing."

 

[Zoro]

You’re finding the other extreme. When you learn this side of the game, you’ll know how to have the feels and not fuck things up.

Having the feels makes the average guy become needy and more likely to fuck up. And the average guy may catch the feels for girls who are uninterested, not a good option, or way too much of the feels way too soon.

The experienced seducer will know how to manage the feels. And he will either manage his feels better and/or he will not catch the feels until he uncovers the real girl underneath and finds that she’s a great catch.

And yeah I would say relationships with women are conditional love. But it goes both ways. Will you still be into your girl if she becomes overweight? nags all the time, starts trying to boss you around? burping and farting and shit? Haha of course not.

 

[Will_V]

Man where to begin...

The more I play this game I'm realizing its all about being non-needy and not giving a f*ck and making your moves properly. The more emotional you get or needy you get it completely ruins the whole thing. But this can't be the true nature of it? F*ck man this realization actually made me somewhat miserable. I already knew girls don't give a f*ck about men or their "feelings" but seriously? Feels like the less f*cks I give the better I can play the game and the more women will get attracted. The less shits I give the more responsive the girl is. The more emotional/ falling for the girl I get the more it pushes them away ugh... But this realization is kind of killing that good guy in me who wanted to fall for the awesome girlfriend and its all good. I'm sure many of you had realizations of women that killed your old beliefs and perhaps a part of you as well....... How'd you guys get over it or grow or get to a higher place?

I'm tired of being in my feels and I just don't know or care anymore, but this feeling is f*cked up. I guess I have to fully kill the nice guy in me that wanted to fall in love. Cold hearted it is? Be the man be the player and don't fall in love at all? What another cold hard truth of life.

Frame control+ smooth talk+ non needy/being cool = winning?

Man these girls got me fed up... FUCK.......

This is like the start of my villain origin story.. lol.. But seriously I need to get over this shit

Insights and stories are welcome

There's a big difference between being needy and falling in love. It's not the fact that a man falls in love that's the problem, but his relationship with the objects of his love.

The reality of a man's role in a relationships and life is leadership and duty. When you are a leader you must have self control that other people don't need to have, you must have discipline that other people don't need to have, you need to have values and vision that other people don't need to have. All other people need to have is compliance. Obviously there's some balance there but the point is that you are the bounds within which everything operates.

That means that as a man, while you can be emotional and love women (and should), it has to be tempered by all the things that are required of your role. Finding the balance is the entire point of masculine self development. And when you get it right you'll find you have a lot more leeway for self expression because a woman can receive it knowing that your frame and boundaries cannot be changed by it or her reactions.

 

[Bismarck]

Great thread King, and some very thoughtful and insightful contributions so far.

Have to agree with ElderPrice, you have no business "falling in love" (or "catching feelings") for a chick after she's played with your shlong a few times, regardless of how hot she is, and how much you love fucking her.

And this ties back to self-love. If you haven't managed to establish a healthy relationship with yourself, tied, as HoofHearted stated, with what you accomplish in your life, then it can happen that you're desperate for external validation. And that is what leads you to "catch feelings," which in reality are just a consequence of the fact that you're constantly talking about yourself, seeking that validation, with the girls you seduce and smash, so you're being more intimate with them than they are with you, and becoming attached to them only to the extent that they know you more than you know them because you're constantly wanting her to tell you what she thinks of things you've done.

If you flip that around, because you're already internally validated, and instead you're the one validating her, you're the one judging whether she's worthy of you or not, then of necessity, she will be the one revealing more of herself to you in the hopes that you will approve. In that situation, it's more likely she will be the one falling for you. A good book that touches upon some of these issues is The Passion Trap.

As ulrich wrote, abundance can attenuate some of these issues, simply because it "spreads out" your "propensity for neediness" so that you don't become so easily attached to one particular girl.

 

[King]

Wow...

Thank you so much for your reply. It truly helped me so much, I have been digesting it for the last few days and you're actually spot on with everything you said. The most beautiful post I've ever read on a forum ever.

Not a pro. Here's some thoughts.

I think this is because most men's idea of 'love' is skewed. Even infantile and self-centered. Women can be quite considerate of men's feelings-- but when your standard is absolute attendance/co-dependency, an even partially healthy person will not tolerate that.

Most men are used to being loved as a child is loved, and maybe expect that. Part of growing up is accepting love as a man is loved.

A child is love absolutely for what he is. A man is loved conditionally for what he does.

That sounds brutal, but it isn't quite the truth. Many women will still offer you love and care when you fail as a man... but it's not what you're after, since the sexual dynamic will be missing. A number of decent women will offer you the love and care they'd give a wounded dog or an upset toddler, and I would hope this offends you greatly-- because you're a man.

You are correct in that the way I give love at times and expect to receive it is child like and self - centered. There is a lack of maturity but like you said it comes with time and experience.

"Maybe you don't know the first thing about giving love to, or receiving love from, a woman. And that's okay. It comes with time and experience. It's okay if you have hurt feelings while you learn this, sometimes. Hurt feelings are a fact of life. Hurt feelings are a part of the journey. Because the journey never ends..."

So much truth in what you said here... I agree there was this need for me to just be loved rather than understanding men are loved for the value that they have/provide/achieve to attain. Its a cold hard truth but this is all for the means of survival, perhaps it should be looked at a positive light in which it pushes us to become the best man we can be. I will add that the modern world does have a few too many comforts. As it has been said many times, "Discomfort helps us grow." Something I fail to remember at times. So thank you for reminding me again.

I still have a ways to go in my journey to heal my "inner child" as they say in psychology and this thread has helped me realize something deep about myself and gave me a huge break through. I realized I should be loving women as a man and not expect love from women because I simply yearn for it like a child or that because they are women they are the embodiment of love and that it should be readily given. Which was a really deep home run for me but this has helped me level up as a man. My mother did not love me the way I wanted either so it runs deep, but as it goes I understand how I must view love. As you said unconditional love is only between a child and its parent. Something I did not receive but now I understand everything. Thank you so much for your help. Million thanks to you my friend.

Love like a man, not a child.

Love with boundaries and have them earn your love.

I have also realized I must take my career path more seriously and just crush it completely and stop being dependent on others. We all may need help at times, but a strong man must be able to stand on his on two feet financially and achievement wise in the modern world.

"I don't think there is a 'winning.' All we're doing is trying to ride a wild horse. The horse throws us off sometimes, and it hurts. But we gain experience and learn to ride better and get thrown off less often. We start to feel, experience new things with the horse. We start to learn more about the horse. And there's always more to do. There's nothing to 'win,' there's only 'riding better.' That's what I think..."

Yes women are a challenge and their is growth needed on both sides to become a better tamer and better wild beauty. As you have said the journey continues. One thing I always have liked is self improvement and this journey is beautiful and never ending. Self discovery is so powerful. All the while discipline is our friend.

We can always become better.

Thanks a million times over friend

Lets stay in touch and keep rising together!

 

[King]

Not indifference but abundance.
Thats the name of the game.

Pros are non-reactive to bullshit, have tamed emotions and keep their cool because they know any girl can be replaced.

Think of an emperor who has riches to spare and all the sex he wants… will he get needy for a business deal that doesn’t work or a woman who tries to play games on him?
No, he doesn’t need them. He can lose them and still be an emperor.

You can be a great guy, have a heart of gold and fall in love.
As long as you are in abundance… if it doesn’t work, well… you just go for the next one.

For example, I know perfectly how to play games and have pretty good frame control… yet, I prefer girls who are sweeter and don’t need to constantly be outsmarted.
If I meet a girl who is constantly challenging me, I just think to myself: “Alright, this one will only be good for a ONS. Need to look for a new one after this.”

Thank you for your reply friend. I appreciate it immensely.

There is a level of emotional fitness I need to work on, and trust me its being worked on heavily. Abundance mentality is something I need work on definitely. It is my sincere goal this year to obtain abundance and kill it in my endeavors.

I agree one random girl would not be off-putting to a man who truly has abundance. This is a powerful lesson that you have reminded me of. Thank you.

About having a heart of gold and falling in love, I would say there needs to be a balance in this, atleast for me.

Thank you so much for your post again friend

Lets stay in touch and keep rising together!

 

[King]

No, you have it a bit off. It's not so much that you shouldn't fall in love with a girl, it's more so understanding the appropriate timing. Falling in love with a girl makes sense when she's EARNED IT. A girl earns it by submitting to you, following you, supporting you, and actually making your life easier. This is someone you'd ACUTALLY be proud to introduce to your friends and family. This is probably something that takes, I dunno, a year or two, for her to properly demonstrate to you, repeatedly, over time.

The way you're hinting at your experiences 'falling in love,' it sounds like you're catching feelings WAY too early, before she's done anything substantial to earn them. A man has NO BUSINESS catching feelings because a girl agrees to a first date (duh), or multiple dates, or she plays with your dick a few times. If you are falling for girls after just sleeping with them and hanging out with them, this is definitely a problem that girls will notice and cause you to "ruin the whole thing."

Yes I agree I was definitely off. As I learned from reading Hoof's post and having this realization that they must "earn" it, and I've realized it was an inner issue that at times can ruin interactions. Many years ago I even caught feelings for a girl in which nothing even happened, cause I thought "she was the one," I simply failed to follow up - oneitis and and yeah complete mess... that took me a long time to get over, sounds stupid with me even typing it out right now. And so the reason for this thread as I realized no shits given gave me way better results, but striking a balance and "timing" as you said is the main thing I was missing. There is definitely a level of emotional fitness I must work on as a man, so I don't catch feelings so easily. It is a repeating pattern and theme with women in my life that this thread has helped me understand about myself, as I've made smaller mistakes with other girls in the past as well. But now I understand so clearly. I'm too nice about love and give it out unconditionally like a child. This is no longer the way as a man. It must be earned by them.

Thank you so so much for your reply and words of truth friend, you rock

Lets stay in touch and rise together!

 

[ulrich]

About having a heart of gold and falling in love, I would say there needs to be a balance in this, atleast for me.

Thank you so much for your post again friend

There is a place for that once you are more advanced and your emotions are tempered, trust me.

it’s a pleasure.

 

[King]

You’re finding the other extreme. When you learn this side of the game, you’ll know how to have the feels and not fuck things up.

Having the feels makes the average guy become needy and more likely to fuck up. And the average guy may catch the feels for girls who are uninterested, not a good option, or way too much of the feels way too soon.

The experienced seducer will know how to manage the feels. And he will either manage his feels better and/or he will not catch the feels until he uncovers the real girl underneath and finds that she’s a great catch.

And yeah I would say relationships with women are conditional love. But it goes both ways. Will you still be into your girl if she becomes overweight? nags all the time, starts trying to boss you around? burping and farting and shit? Haha of course not.

Thank you so much for your reply friend

Yes I'm realizing this as I've been digesting all the awesome responses to this thread for the past few days. I agree with you 100% that "relationships with women are conditional love"

Managing feelings is a huge part of life. When it pertains to women I realized my issues stem from my old beliefs I developed from a young age and wouldn't let them go and it would just hurt, it is the truth I needed to accept about my beliefs and become aware of this. Today I went to work and felt so carefree about women and all my interactions just flowed so smoothly. I feel more battle hardened and emotionally stronger. They must earn my feelings other wise forget it! I hear you guys loud and clear. This is an evolution for me so with that I must say, a million thanks for your response.

Lets stay in touch and rise together!

 

[King]

There's a big difference between being needy and falling in love. It's not the fact that a man falls in love that's the problem, but his relationship with the objects of his love.

The reality of a man's role in a relationships and life is leadership and duty. When you are a leader you must have self control that other people don't need to have, you must have discipline that other people don't need to have, you need to have values and vision that other people don't need to have. All other people need to have is compliance. Obviously there's some balance there but the point is that you are the bounds within which everything operates.

That means that as a man, while you can be emotional and love women (and should), it has to be tempered by all the things that are required of your role. Finding the balance is the entire point of masculine self development. And when you get it right you'll find you have a lot more leeway for self expression because a woman can receive it knowing that your frame and boundaries cannot be changed by it or her reactions.

Powerful!

Just reading that leveled me up. Thank you so much for your reply friend. They are all truths of life for all men. We have to have strong emotional mastery to work with life and achieve the success we want. As a men we must assert our presence.

Finding the balance is the entire point of masculine self development

Loved this point, absolutely true.

You've given me lots to think of and have helped me evolve and strentghen my resolve a lot with your answer. Lots of powerful lessons that I really wanted and needed to hear in this thread from everyone. Thanks a million for your response.

Lets stay in touch and rise together!

 

[King]

Great thread King, and some very thoughtful and insightful contributions so far.

Have to agree with ElderPrice, you have no business "falling in love" (or "catching feelings") for a chick after she's played with your shlong a few times, regardless of how hot she is, and how much you love fucking her.

And this ties back to self-love. If you haven't managed to establish a healthy relationship with yourself, tied, as HoofHearted stated, with what you accomplish in your life, then it can happen that you're desperate for external validation. And that is what leads you to "catch feelings," which in reality are just a consequence of the fact that you're constantly talking about yourself, seeking that validation, with the girls you seduce and smash, so you're being more intimate with them than they are with you, and becoming attached to them only to the extent that they know you more than you know them because you're constantly wanting her to tell you what she thinks of things you've done.

If you flip that around, because you're already internally validated, and instead you're the one validating her, you're the one judging whether she's worthy of you or not, then of necessity, she will be the one revealing more of herself to you in the hopes that you will approve. In that situation, it's more likely she will be the one falling for you. A good book that touches upon some of these issues is The Passion Trap.

As ulrich wrote, abundance can attenuate some of these issues, simply because it "spreads out" your "propensity for neediness" so that you don't become so easily attached to one particular girl.

Superb response!

Thank you so much for your reply friend, really appreciate how insightful you are and how you reiterated the contribution of others.

I agree with what you've said and I will highlight something you said that's very true. A man must really be on the ball for his achievements in this world. In the olden days the strong would be able to hunt and kill and they would be deemed alpha. But in todays day and age our success, status and work accomplishments are what shows our strength and yes I agree a mans accomplishments can truly raise him up a thousand fold and put him in drivers seat of screening if a women is worthy of him or not.

Thank you for the book recommendation as well, I just read thru the table of contents and it looks like something I would definitely like to learn more about, so I'll be ordering that book soon.

Thanks a million for the response again. This is one of the most meaningful threads I've ever been a part of. Loved how many deep insights it brought out of everyone.

Lets stay in touch and rise together!