Questions About Realistic Expectations

[Orgasmatron]

I imagine I'm not the first person who thought that this stuff would be easy if they just watched a few videos, read a few articles, and went out and did some approaches, only to find out that they were very wrong indeed.

So I need to know what realistic expectations I should have.

I'd imagine circumstances and opportunities to practice play a role here.

So, I live in a medium-sized city, I live on my own in a nice area, about 10-15 minutes walk from the city centre.
I have a normal job, 9-5ish, it's not going to make me rich but it pays the bills. So I can go out at weekend during the day and night. Perhaps a few evenings during the week. I've got stuff I've got to do, I can't just wander round a university campus all day, or go to a nightclub 5 nights a week, but I do have a normal amount of free time I can use for doing stuff.

I'm reasonably proactive, and not a complete idiot.

I'm doing (bad it seems) daygame approaches, I'm reading articles here, I've got some books I'm going to read over the next few weeks, I'll be going out at night at the weekends, maybe on my own with the intention of meeting chicks, maybe with people I know, which is more of a go to have some beers thing, none of them are potential wingmen, but I'll be keeping my eyes peeled for opportunities. I don't have much of a social circle as I only moved here recently, but I'm working on it.

My current skill level is very low.

So...

1. How long would you expect, given my circumstances, for me to start to feel like I know what I'm doing?
Are we talking weeks, months, years?

2. What's a reasonable number of girls I could expect to be banging by the end of the year? or in a year, if that's easier to answer.

3. What's the most important thing to do to get better?

4. Did you have some breakthrough realization or something when everything started to make sense and it all came together?

I realize these are 'how long is a piece of string' questions and the answer will likely be 'well, it depends...'

But, I thought I'd be doing a bit better at this by now tbh, so I just want to know what realistic expectations I should have.

Obviously, I realize that it all requires you to put in the work and all that stuff and it doesn't just happen unless you make it happen, etc.

Anyway,

cheers dudes

 

[Will_V]

In my opinion, it's very unhelpful to think about seduction in terms of expectations. The goal is to be a little bit better than yesterday, to grasp a little more fully what it is that makes a woman want to give herself to you, to pull out a few weeds of negative thinking, to understand oneself and one's desires a little better, in short to morph a little more into the person you want to be.

One of the great truths of life is that those who become very good at something are those for whom trying to reach it is an act of self expression, something they cannot not do regardless of how rapidly or slowly they succeed, rather than it being something they 'put up with' until sometime when everything becomes 'easy'. It's the same for business, seduction, anything really.

Because if you are just putting up with something 'for a while', the moment things become difficult, when the way becomes unclear, when doubts start to creep in, an overwhelming question of "why am I doing this?" arrives, without a satisfying answer, and kills motivation, energy and commitment. Because someone cannot do something difficult when they don't have a good answer for 'why?'.

I don't seduce women because I want to be good at it. I seduce them because that's what it means to me to be a man. The idea that all these pretty women are running around, and me, a man, am not doing anything about it, is unbearable. And when I get rejected, I'm a man throwing himself against the walls of his limitations, painfully and sometimes unsuccessfully, and I smile, because how could I not? That's who I am.

That's my conviction, and my frame. Nothing can shake it. If every woman rejected me from now on until the day I die, it could not stop me enjoying the process of trying to transform myself into the man I want to be.

This is what men don't have these days. They want to continue to be afraid, to continue to look at themselves as losers, to hide in the corner and appear every now and then to capture a woman by flipping switches and performing routines and 'tech stacks' and all that sort of thing. I have no interest in that. There is technique, sure. But none of it matters to me unless the win comes with the knowledge that I have put myself above whatever it is that has tried to stop me, that I have put myself into the mix, faced the problems head on, felt the pain that I have judged myself to be worthy of. And in the end, real women, women who fully accept and live in their female dynamic, who have the pick of the bunch and know how to choose, the women I want, know the difference between these types of men like night and day.

So personally I would focus on being better than yesterday, rather than worrying about expectations, especially based on someone else's opinion. Long term expectations and opinions usually fail, but perceiving immediate problems and making incremental adjustments in real time wins every time.

 

[Orgasmatron]

In my opinion, it's very unhelpful to think about seduction in terms of expectations. The goal is to be a little bit better than yesterday, to grasp a little more fully what it is that makes a woman want to give herself to you, to pull out a few weeds of negative thinking, to understand oneself and one's desires a little better, in short to morph a little more into the person you want to be.

One of the great truths of life is that those who become very good at something are those for whom trying to reach it is an act of self expression, something they cannot not do regardless of how rapidly or slowly they succeed, rather than it being something they 'put up with' until sometime when everything becomes 'easy'. It's the same for business, seduction, anything really.

Because if you are just putting up with something 'for a while', the moment things become difficult, when the way becomes unclear, when doubts start to creep in, an overwhelming question of "why am I doing this?" arrives, without a satisfying answer, and kills motivation, energy and commitment. Because someone cannot do something difficult when they don't have a good answer for 'why?'.

I don't seduce women because I want to be good at it. I seduce them because that's what it means to me to be a man. The idea that all these pretty women are running around, and me, a man, am not doing anything about it, is unbearable. And when I get rejected, I'm a man throwing himself against the walls of his limitations, painfully and sometimes unsuccessfully, and I smile, because how could I not? That's who I am.

That's my conviction, and my frame. Nothing can shake it. If every woman rejected me from now on until the day I die, it could not stop me enjoying the process of trying to transform myself into the man I want to be.

This is what men don't have these days. They want to continue to be afraid, to continue to look at themselves as losers, to hide in the corner and appear every now and then to capture a woman by flipping switches and performing routines and 'tech stacks' and all that sort of thing. I have no interest in that. There is technique, sure. But none of it matters to me unless the win comes with the knowledge that I have put myself above whatever it is that has tried to stop me, that I have put myself into the mix, faced the problems head on, felt the pain that I have judged myself to be worthy of. And in the end, real women, women who fully accept and live in their female dynamic, who have the pick of the bunch and know how to choose, the women I want, know the difference between these types of men like night and day.

So personally I would focus on being better than yesterday, rather than worrying about expectations, especially based on someone else's opinion. Long term expectations and opinions usually fail, but perceiving immediate problems and making incremental adjustments in real time wins every time.

Thanks man,

That makes a lot of sense, it's all an expression of who you are.

I'm just feeling pretty frustrated at the moment, I feel like I've done all this work and now I'm even more clueless than I was when I began. At the start, I only knew there was a small number of things I knew I didn't know, and now, every day, there's another thing I don't know anything about.
I can't just not learn about it and just give up because this is who I am now.

Just today, heading back to work, after lunch, I saw this hot girl, and I'm all "FFS, I have to back to work, I've got loads of stuff to do", and last night I saw this amazing looking girl, standing there, I'm looking at her, she's noticed me noticing her, and I can't go over and talk to her because I'm standing with my Mum, who's just come over for the week and we're waiting for brother to come and pick us up in the car because shes just arrived off the plane. I'm like "aaarrrgggh, where were you on Saturday?"

So it's actually got really annoying to see all these hot girls wandering about and not be able to do anything because I've got other stuff that I genuinely have to do. I'm like "fuck's sake, there's another one, damn you bloody work!"

I don't care about the numbers really, they don't mean anything. I just need a way to work out if I'm actually getting better or not. So, numbers are an easy way to measure it. 2 is better than 1, and 10 is better than 5. if 7 is a good number and you're at 3 then you're getting there. Anyone could say any number, and it's meaningless, I know.

But how else do you know you're getting any better when you just feel like you've been going backwards?

At least before, when was too scared to talk to girls, I avoided all the rejections. After a while, they do get you down.

And it feels worse because I had a tiny bit of success, 1 date with a genuinely hot girl, fuck all in any of your guy's worlds I know, but my eyes have been opened to the possibilities. But, of course, I fucked that up by doing something I thought was a good idea but wasn't. And I speak these girls, think "oh, seems to be going well" only to find out that it wasn't when she tells me about the boyfriend, who may or may not be real, or they just say no.

So, I don't feel that I'm very good at judging whether or not I'm actually making any progress. I'm certainly very different from what I used to be like, so that's good, but I still don't feel like I have any idea what I'm doing.

I just want to know how long it takes before the pieces start coming together and you feel like you have a clue what's going on.

I've got to take a break for a bit 'cause I've got family visiting for the next 2 weeks, and I'm going to do a lot of reading, so that will probably help. I'm sure I'll be able to understand what's going on a bit better after that.

What you're saying rings very true. I've started looking at other guys very differently, and I think "why are you so seemingly happy with being like this?" So I can't go back to being like that, it's just not an option. And I look at women very different now too, of course. I didn't really think about how different they are before.

But sometimes you can't help but wonder if you're not just going completely metal. I did google "am I going insane" and apparently I'm not, so that's reassuring.

But it is quite weird to be looking at the world in such a different way than before, and be acting very differently. And it's definitely benefiting other areas of my life, feel like I'm totally bossing it at work now, for instance, which is good. Genuinely don't care what anyone else thinks of me now too whereas before I was a bit of a people pleaser.

The irony is, that I don't seem to be able to get anywhere with the chicks still, which was the whole point of getting into this stuff in the first place. Which is kinda funny really.

I don't know if any of that will make any sense to anyone else.

The never-ending voyage of self-improvement.

Thanks man, all the stuff you say is very helpful.

I'll get there eventually, wherever there is.

Cheers.

 

[topcat]

Small chunk your victories bossman. Set a reasonable goal. Maybe right now it’s get 5 girls to agree to a date with me. Figure out how to do that. When that’s consistent, pick another goal. Maybe, get girls on dates and ask them home. Once you’ve got that down, escalate on girls without them excusing themselves. The problems never end man, they just become finer grained.

As Will V says, know your why. And know it well…

There’s also something to be said for lowering your standards early on. Some may grumble at it, but the more facetime you get with women the faster you improve…

Raise your standards once you can get plain girls consistently.. a woman is a woman is a woman after all…

Also read this article https://www.girlschase.com/content/3-sorts-lady-killer-and-which-one-you-are

Identify which flavour of seducer you are…

We can give you all the advice in the world, but you ultimately need to find the system that works for you..

 

[Orgasmatron]

Hey man, thanks

Small chunk your victories bossman. Set a reasonable goal. Maybe right now it’s get 5 girls to agree to a date with me. Figure out how to do that. When that’s consistent, pick another goal. Maybe, get girls on dates and ask them home. Once you’ve got that down, escalate on girls without them excusing themselves. The problems never end man, they just become finer grained.

That's a good way to look at it.
Work from the ground up, get the base level right, then build on that.

Mo money mo probelms.

As Will V says, know your why. And know it well…

Yeah, I need to work this out more

There’s also something to be said for lowering your standards early on. Some may grumble at it, but the more facetime you get with women the faster you improve…

Raise your standards once you can get plain girls consistently.. a woman is a woman is a woman after all…

I guess I'll have to move from 10s done to 9s for a bit
Build on a lower level again.

Also read this article https://www.girlschase.com/content/3-sorts-lady-killer-and-which-one-you-are

Identify which flavour of seducer you are…

We can give you all the advice in the world, but you ultimately need to find the system that works for you..

Thanks man. Much appreciated.

That's tip top topcat!

 

[topcat]

No worries mate..

Also, remember to celebrate every little victory, and frame every little improvement as a victory. Celebrate when a girl rejects you, celebrate when you get a date. Celebrate when you get a girl home, even if she runs out the door. Next time you will do better, but for now you made an attempt.

Every move on the way to your goal, is a victory. Every trial gives you feedback. Feedback begets knowledge. All of this is valuable. Celebrate it and let it be it’s own reward. Tweak and improve. Tweak and improve.

You’ll get there in the end.

Good luck

 

[Orgasmatron]

No worries mate..

Also, remember to celebrate every little victory, and frame every little improvement as a victory. Celebrate when a girl rejects you, celebrate when you get a date. Celebrate when you get a girl home, even if she runs out the door. Next time you will do better, but for now you made an attempt.

Every move on the way to your goal, is a victory. Every trial gives you feedback. Feedback begets knowledge. All of this is valuable. Celebrate it and let it be it’s own reward. Tweak and improve. Tweak and improve.

You’ll get there in the end.

Good luck

Thanks man,

That's helped me get a better perspective on things.

You're right, recognise all the small wins you've had and let yourself feel good about them.

Every approach is a victory over AA regardless of the outcome and is something the old me would never have done.

Concentrate on the next goal, ie getting dates, and don't worry about outcomes too much just yet.

You're always moving forward if you keep learning, get more experience, and use that to improve.

I feel a lot better about things now.

Cheers TC!

 

[Orgasmatron]

So personally I would focus on being better than yesterday, rather than worrying about expectations, especially based on someone else's opinion. Long term expectations and opinions usually fail, but perceiving immediate problems and making incremental adjustments in real time wins every time.

Yes, one step at a time, think how you could do things better.
I need to read stuff and get a grasp of the theory, review my fundamentals and work on them. That's going to make the biggest difference for me at the moment.

One of the great truths of life is that those who become very good at something are those for whom trying to reach it is an act of self expression, something they cannot not do regardless of how rapidly or slowly they succeed, rather than it being something they 'put up with' until sometime when everything becomes 'easy'. It's the same for business, seduction, anything really.

Been thinking about this after reading your reply.

You can't just follow a set of steps that work for someone else. I always do best at things when I don't think and just do. So, that's an act of self-expression because you're just doing what you would do and not thinking about what someone else says you should do.

So gotta get my knowledge up and internalize the info so I don't have to think about it and just do what comes naturally to me.

So no point in thinking "should I go direct or indirect" for instance, just do it and whatever your feeling at the time will just come out.

Cheers man,

 

[Will_V]

Yes, one step at a time, think how you could do things better.
I need to read stuff and get a grasp of the theory, review my fundamentals and work on them. That's going to make the biggest difference for me at the moment.



Been thinking about this after reading your reply.

You can't just follow a set of steps that work for someone else. I always do best at things when I don't think and just do. So, that's an act of self-expression because you're just doing what you would do and not thinking about what someone else says you should do.

So gotta get my knowledge up and internalize the info so I don't have to think about it and just do what comes naturally to me.

So no point in thinking "should I go direct or indirect" for instance, just do it and whatever your feeling at the time will just come out.

Cheers man,

It's good to try different things and adapt to what works. That's just being realistic. But in the end what is the purpose of seduction if not to become an actualized man? Seduction like any difficult endeavor is a journey into a certain kind of wilderness, where there are times when a consequential choice will be unclear or counter intuitive, and the only way to choose well is to do it not to be correct but to be a certain kind of man.