r/seduction: Boys worry about game, men worry about logistics

Space

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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This post on r/seduction sums it up.

For your information, by reading others, I concluded that I certainly don't have the best logistics here. Far from it. But I also don't have the worst, either. I'm not complaining. Just for your information. I've said before that I don't aim to utilize this forum to solve all my challenges that is life. Which brings us to the topic of how pickup relates to self improvement for men in general. I'm not denying that Chase is sure at a high level of personal development. Not at all. But as long as his main marketing strategy is aiming at the lowest common denominator; serving more of his search engine traffic than concentrating on raising his tighter community to a higher level, I don't see how such topics will be dominant here. Other pickup coaches try to move their students more into that direction, though. Just my observation.

As a side note, I see theory and practice equally important: 50% and 50%. At least, this is how I function. This to those who still want to see field reports from me. I mean, I find theory important (50%) and I find practice important (50%). But I don't see how spending hours writing field reports of my specific stories would add to any of those two sides: getting field experience and learning about personal growth as a man. I get that I'm a Space Monkey here. But Space Monkey does not equal entertainment monkey, thank you! I'm personally also more a person who likes to connect the dots himself and find out what works for him from generic advice, not copying other people's stories. Not to mention most of you are American and I'm not, or we are just different personalities or live different lives.

I've heard something recently which resonates with me quite well: incorporate pickup into your daily life as a new hobby. Such as learning a new language or doing martial arts. Take it a little casually. Now I notice quite a few of you, the forum core, maybe a little more obsessed with the topic than me. At least, this is how I see it. It's perfectly fine with me, I just don't quite get why do I get so much heat from some senior members here. One. Two. Three. Or, from another perspective, I perfectly get it. But that means this probably isn't my online men's self improvement community. :/
 

Mr.Rob

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Space,

The reason we asked you to post some field reports was because you just show up out of nowhere and start giving non constructive feedback to GirlsChase telling your thoughts on how GirlsChase should operate as if you know the insides of the business and Chase's goals better than him.

Then you give all this theory and for whatever reason we feel like you come off as a guy that is really into pickup material but doesn't actually go out and practice. So we asked for you to post a few field reports which would probably take a few minutes to write up just so we can that you actually do have skills with women which would back up all this theory your espew and we could take you seriously.

The core members on the boards here came on to improve with women and any member on here with a rank above space monkey has posted a journal or field reports to look back on where their mistakes are and improve. It also demonstrates where you're at with women and how much chops you have.

But you come on here talking like you've got mad chops, talk down on how GirlsChase needs to improve (without clear cut solutions for said improvements), and then you expect us to take you seriously and its just not going to happen until you show us that you actually practice what you preach.

I'd be interested to just know A) How many girls you've slept with, B) How much money you've made in internet marketing. By the way you talk you've been very successful in both of these areas no?
 

Michal

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You need to understand who is giving the advice to understand the advice itself. Those talking about 90% success being good logistics are the guys who practiced in the past, have the necessary experiences, are attractive and have game and their process down. Meanwhile, beginners will think it is 70% looks and 30% techniques / game.
This is not a debate on what portion in the pie of total 100%plays game, logistics, attractiveness etc. Or wherethe truth lies. In the beginning of your journey, you need to assess your situation, your strenghts and weaknesses and move from there. Based on that, the journey will be different. Some guy will visit a stylist, undertand that women want sex so he just turns on his charm and he is set. Some fat dude who is a starcraft nerd will have to go socialize with friends for 3 years, lose 100 kgs of fat, get a haircut etc. just to get a date. There is no need to find the correct answer on what % plays each aspect of seduction in the overall success

About field reports... those are requested for multiple reasons. Seppuku, Mr. Rob and others told you some of those. Another one - which is important to me, and that is why I write them (evem though I do not post them here) - is that there is this super horrible feeling when you know you were in a particular situation xy weeks or months before with a different girl and suddenly, you cannot remember how you solved it. Field reports provide great tool to improve your entire process. Rob already mentioned, why somebody else would want to see them. Other than that, they are mostly for your own use to look back and learn from them.
 

Space

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Mr.Rob said:
The reason we asked you to post some field reports was because you just show up out of nowhere and start giving non constructive feedback to GirlsChase telling your thoughts on how GirlsChase should operate as if you know the insides of the business and Chase's goals better than him.
I gave feed back from the standpoint of a customer. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be the smart ass "I'm the customer" here. I know I'm not a paid customer yet. A free customer is a customer too. A stakeholder if you will. I'm a member of this forum. When the time is right, the free customer may buy something too. Right? (But where to start with all of Chase's material in the first place? I wrote 2 months ago.)

Mr.Rob said:
But you come on here talking like you've got mad chops, talk down on how GirlsChase needs to improve (without clear cut solutions for said improvements)
Good points. Actually, I've planned to write about it extensively, about possible "solutions," as you call them, at least according to my taste. I've told you, personally to you this before: my time is limited here, so next time. Next week. Next month. Some time. You know I'm busy. I have to go to watch porn. But isn't this assumption some cognitive dissonance on your part? Joke aside...

Mr.Rob said:
Then you give all this theory and for whatever reason we feel like you come off as a guy that is really into pickup material but doesn't actually go out and practice.
OK, but how can you be sure when I'm not here I'm busy watching porn, not going out in the filed / or doing anything else useful with my life, not related to porn or pickup, but anything else? Are you so sure about your cold reading skills? Have you noticed that I've been away for a while, that I haven't posted a single post for a month?

Mr.Rob said:
So we asked for you to post a few field reports which would probably take a few minutes to write up just so we can that you actually do have skills with women which would back up all this theory your espew and we could take you seriously.

The core members on the boards here came on to improve with women and any member on here with a rank above space monkey has posted a journal or field reports to look back on where their mistakes are and improve. It also demonstrates where you're at with women and how much chops you have.
I just wrote a short one, which points back here. It's all about logistics.

Mr.Rob said:
I'd be interested to just know A) How many girls you've slept with, B) How much money you've made in internet marketing. By the way you talk you've been very successful in both of these areas no?
So I wrote about it here recently that some online communities go for lower common denominators and becoming dick mesuring contests about money and lay counts. If I remember correctly, I've posted this Social Prime video before about lay counts... but it seems to worth repeating. I mean just think about it: how much more positive that community might be with everyone on this other, may I say healthier, more positive, and higher level in my books, compared to other communities degrading to dick measuring contests, for who knows whatever reason. Disclosure: I've discovered Social Prime after I've discovered Girls Chase. On a personal note, I've posted about my current aims with pickup here. This isn't about numbers, either.

The same goes for money as well. But as I said, I've already planned to post about my marketing ideas related to Girls Chase. At a later time. I'm not a native English speaker, so you can figure out how much money as a marketer can you make in [insert funny language here]. It's not a complaint. Besides marketing, there are other related and unrelated, even more appealing avenues open to me. I'm not that much of a marketing person by heart, but still, I can be a connoisseur of marketing products, such as the presenter in this video from 55:10 to 55:40 like everyone else. Like most of you here into personal development.
 

Space

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Michal said:
About field reports... those are requested for multiple reasons. Seppuku, Mr. Rob and others told you some of those. Another one - which is important to me, and that is why I write them (evem though I do not post them here) - is that there is this super horrible feeling when you know you were in a particular situation xy weeks or months before with a different girl and suddenly, you cannot remember how you solved it. Field reports provide great tool to improve your entire process. Rob already mentioned, why somebody else would want to see them. Other than that, they are mostly for your own use to look back and learn from them.
Of course, I take (private) notes of everything important in my life. Including my adventures and questions regarding pickup. It's like second nature to me.
 

Space

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Michal said:
Some guy will visit a stylist
Michal said:
Some fat dude
Sure, different journeys. But in a sense, logistics is the basics to them all. It's equally important to both of them just as to any other guy. Yes, we can forget about the exact percentages, but still.
 

Mr.Rob

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Space,

You never actually address anyone's questions but dance around the subject and then say you'll give a real answer at some indeterminable amount of time in the future, when you could've used the same time to just directly answer the question.

Its funny you have so much time to write about and share all this pickup theory, write about how GirlsChase needs to improve, and reply back with long winded responses that don't actually answer anyone's question BUT...

You don't have time to write just one detailed field report so we can take you seriously, share one valuable lesson from an actual interaction you've had recently we could benefit from, or lay out a detailed solution for exactly how to improve GirlsChase forums/marketing/products.

Space said:
So I wrote about it here recently that some online communities go for lower common denominators and becoming dick mesuring contests about money and lay counts. If I remember correctly, I've posted this Social Prime video before about lay counts... but it seems to worth repeating. I mean just think about it: how much more positive that community might be with everyone on this other, may I say healthier, more positive, and higher level in my books, compared to other communities degrading to dick measuring contests, for who knows whatever reason. Disclosure: I've discovered Social Prime after I've discovered Girls Chase. On a personal note, I've posted about my current aims with pickup here. This isn't about numbers, either.
I totally agree. Obsessing over your lay count and batting average is a unproductive activity as a whole BUT it is a great indicator of how good someone roughly is with women and though all guys don't have an exact number once they start racking up past 30 lays or more they always have a good idea of about how many women they've slept with.

Its a great question for you to answer because it only takes seconds to reply to (as opposed to requiring days/months/years etc. which you say it requires you to provide other information) and it would give us a good idea of how good you actually are with women (assuming your not making it up).

BUT since you've evaded providing any proof that your not a troll and that you actually do go out and meet women and have actually have had sex before (The field report you posted is clearly a weak jab to "say you have a FR now" and doesnt actually count since anyone could make that up) and you can't even answer the simplest of questions of your lay count....

Well I'm still convinced your a troll, although I'll give you credit you're perhaps more cleverly disguised than I first gave you credit for.

Cheers Space,
-Rob
 

Seppuku

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Hey Space,

I normally avoid to involve myself into this kind of discussion. But I'd like to give you a couple of thoughts on what you said here. Well, I'm not adding up to the heat you are getting from other guys. It's just my candid feedback to your post.

Space said:
That was not a field report. More like an alibi.

But I don't see how spending hours writing field reports of my specific stories would add to any of those two sides: getting field experience and learning about personal growth as a man.
For about three years I went on documenting every single interaction I had here, one place or another. And it was extremely helpful.

  • First, it documents your progress, and fuels your own motivation. You can use it for future reference, and remember how you solved that or that particular situation. Or remember how that other situation led to a dead end.
  • Second, it holds yourself accountable. You write that you are going to try so and so. Now you just have to do it and write the results. I have used that many times to push myself out of inaction or complacency.
  • Third, probably the biggest point, you get useful feedback. Early in my learning, the feedback I have received here have helped me to correct a few sticking points.

I'm personally also more a person who likes to connect the dots himself and find out what works for him from generic advice, not copying other people's stories. Not to mention most of you are American and I'm not, or we are just different personalities or live different lives.
It's just a fine thing to connect the dots yourself. But sometimes you really need an external feedback. Some other people may see things that you do not want to see.

Oh and I'm not American myself, but I connected well here with all nationalities. You need to transcend the nationality specifics.

I've heard something recently which resonates with me quite well: incorporate pickup into your daily life as a new hobby. Such as learning a new language or doing martial arts. Take it a little casually. Now I notice quite a few of you, the forum core, maybe a little more obsessed with the topic than me.
This is where we differ a lot. You are not going to have a real, significant change in your life without putting up some serious time to it. I mean the sort of change that takes your life in a whole new direction. Learning how to become good with women is one of such significant change, but not the only example. For instance earlier in my life I changed my career from telecom engineering, to investment finance. Both examples shared one common denominator. It takes 3 to 5 years of hard work and long hours devoted to the change. That is the cost of changing. I don't think the guys in this forum are obsessed. They are just spending the required amount of time for a change in their life they are seriously devoted to.

If you are going to make half-assed efforts, you will get half-assed results.

So I wrote about it here recently that some online communities go for lower common denominators and becoming dick mesuring contests about money and lay counts.
Yes, I take that for some people it's just another way to show off, pretend they have the biggest dick, and spread out their ego. Let them brag alone.

For as much fun as getting new girls can be, soon enough you realize that getting more laycount cannot be an objective per se.

HOWEVER there is no way around experience. Getting experience is a real differentiator. You're not the same man after 50 new girls. You do not view things in the same way. You have lost a few illusions in the process, but on the other hand you start to see things like they actually are. In my view it is a better place overall. And to get there, there is no other choice than boosting your laycount to at least 50.

Cheers,
Seppuku
 

Space

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Regarding how to improve Girls Chase. It just got into my mind to add after I wrote that last message, that indeed, I feel like I've actually provided quite a few info yet on how I'd personally like to see Girls Chase to improve. (Or alternatively, it's just not my place. Which is fine as well. There are plenty other places around the net to be involved with this.) I just didn't create a separate topic "How to improve Girls Chase" yet, but it's scattered all over the place in my posts. So I gathered some of them (similarly as I tried to gather them before in other posts), but this time, here.

On the other hand, I feel like you still don't get the gist of that Social Prime video (it would take 10 minutes of your life, it's very well worth watching, feel free to watch it just in the background!). I mean, I've found this to be the only online community about pickup so fixated on lay counts and field reports. Is this the best online community out there you can find related to pickup? Well. A community of my taste would be geared a little more toward personal development in general, not only the pickup aspect. I've found out after joining this forum. It's quite a small community to begin with, not so many people are joining it. I' don't exactly know why it is the case (my educated guess is that it all goes back to Chase trying to use mass market tactics that inherently work better for larger corporations, compared to viral marketing strategies that are just perfect for "next generation," smaller online businesses), but it's a fact.
 

Space

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Seppuku (and Rob, again),

I now only have a brief time to address your fresh post, but here you go:

Space said:
Of course, I take (private) notes of everything important in my life. Including my adventures and questions regarding pickup. It's like second nature to me.
Of course, I not only wrote them to the drawer. I truly expect some day to get some valuable feedback on them on some forum (some forum does not necessarily mean an Internet forum, but online communities are handy as well). My strategy is rather to notice patterns and arrange my notes that way: if an interaction follows the pattern of a previous one, I file them together. To quote a controversial figure from the community relating notes:

6. Write down notes and observations in a dedicated player notebook. Learning game bombards your brain with so much information and data that it’s necessary to write notes from your field experiences. Record lines that worked and lines that didn’t. Jot down specific venues you did well at. Write your conclusions from episodes of success or failure. I also want you to keep track of your daily approach count to know when you’ve gotten to 100. Your player notebook will eventually be a personal bible that reminds you of all the lessons you’ve learned.

Please keep in mind that it's no. 6. from his list. I may evade some questions here, but now let me turn the table back to you (not personally to you), the community:

2. Get your hands on a game resource.

Notice it's no. 2. No. 2 comes before no. 6, right? So I came here in the first place to actually learn some structured stuff from Chase besides reading a few of his random articles. First some free stuff (I hope this is entirely reasonable!), as he has plenty, then maybe he will upsell me to one of his paid products.

Space said:
I still got absolutely zero feedback on this, on where to start with some structured advice from Chase (he has plenty of free advice), besides reading a few of his random articles. Now Rob may think I spend all my time reading about this stuff... which isn't entirely the case. I may seem "well rounded" with theory, but most of it comes from just watching some random stuff on YouTube in the background.

Back to field reports. I wrote about it in the first post of this thread that I value theory and practice on a 50%-50% ratio. If I were to record every interaction in detail on this forum or elsewhere in great detail (at least in my current state, I did not even allocate 50% of my resources to theory; I'm totally clueless, so a clueless field report is less valuable than a field report when actually having a clue, right?), I literally wouldn't have time to live. It would take out time from me actually studying some solid theory of pickup (no. 2), doing the actual approaches (no. 6, but I already have a private notebook), and not to mention I have a life besides all of this. At this point in my life I feel like I just want to incorporate pickup as a casual hobby into my life, not some deep obsession. I said, casual hobby (last paragraph). No. 6 (writing field reports) comes after no. 2 (getting your hand on some solid theory). But this is Roosh. So.
 

Space

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Seppuku, let's get to your main argument!

Seppuku said:
I've heard something recently which resonates with me quite well: incorporate pickup into your daily life as a new hobby. Such as learning a new language or doing martial arts. Take it a little casually. Now I notice quite a few of you, the forum core, maybe a little more obsessed with the topic than me.
This is where we differ a lot. You are not going to have a real, significant change in your life without putting up some serious time to it. I mean the sort of change that takes your life in a whole new direction. Learning how to become good with women is one of such significant change, but not the only example. For instance earlier in my life I changed my career from telecom engineering, to investment finance. Both examples shared one common denominator. It takes 3 to 5 years of hard work and long hours devoted to the change. That is the cost of changing. I don't think the guys in this forum are obsessed. They are just spending the required amount of time for a change in their life they are seriously devoted to.
First this hobby thing came from a person referenced to in Neil Strauss' Game - a book I haven't read because, is it still relevant in 2018? (This product is no longer on the market, but to join the reviewers, what I've also liked the most about it is his heavy accent.) Hobby or not hobby; whatever. We don't have to have heated debates on this right now.

Now, to your main point! If I understand you correctly, you changed your career from telecom engineering, to investment finance first. It took 3 to 5 years. Then, with the same obsession (I use the term in absolute positive terms here) and time investment, your next project was to become a ladies man. It's nice, but I think many people's life circumstances or simply personal preferences differ. For example now I'm more at a point in my life when my main objective is, to paraphrase you, to change my career from telecom engineering, to investment finance first. Not exactly this, but something like that. And we both know that this isn't the prime online community to help you to do so. Which is fine.

So in the meantime, do you suggest me to simply cut off my dick, or what? That idea doesn't seem too reasonable. Especially as I seem to be doing just fine with this hobby in the last few months on my level; I don't need anyone's validation to know that. Sure, useful feedback is fine, but to my structured way of thinking on that whole topic, see no further than my previous post! Hint: it's all about points 2 and 6.
 

Space

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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OFF. This is totally off. We don't much talk about logistics here, do we?

So Seppuku, and Rob. Let's assume your time is valuable as well, as all forum members'. You want to give constructive feedback on members' field reports. How about this one? It wasn't me who opened that topic, but I find it a good idea. As it follows a similar structure to how I take notes. More like taking notes of individual instances, I try to see the patterns. About 50% of the situations in that topic applies to me in some fashion, by the way. So if you want to help me - I'd truly appreciate that -, and most other members, this topic was a very good idea from NiceGuy110. Maybe it can be, or even should be made a sticky or something. Or even a downloadable free product, as it covers most common situations. Speaking of how to improve Girls Chase. At this point I may assume that it's not only me who do not have solid basics on this forum, but quite a few other new members as well (point 2).

If you do so, please reply in the other topic, not to totally OFF this topic about logistics, thanks! :)
 

ThePhoenix

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Seppuku,

This right here:
Seppuku said:
This is where we differ a lot. You are not going to have a real, significant change in your life without putting up some serious time to it. I mean the sort of change that takes your life in a whole new direction. Learning how to become good with women is one of such significant change, but not the only example. For instance earlier in my life I changed my career from telecom engineering, to investment finance. Both examples shared one common denominator. It takes 3 to 5 years of hard work and long hours devoted to the change. That is the cost of changing. I don't think the guys in this forum are obsessed. They are just spending the required amount of time for a change in their life they are seriously devoted to.

If you are going to make half-assed efforts, you will get half-assed results.
Thank you man!  You posted this at just the time *I* needed to hear it.

I've been sitting here trying to learn game on well under 9% of the girls in my city (due to only feeling like hitting on black girls).  I knew at the beginning of the year, this is not efficient, I have to either (i) hit on all type of girl, or (ii) move to an African city so that sticking with black girls does not mean precluding the large majority of the girls I have access to.  Well, my heart is just not in (i), and much as I'd love to, (ii) means such a huge life shake-up.  So I spent months doing neither solution, instead just bashing my head against the bad numbers and hoping to get somewhere anyway.  But of course the results have been half-assed... some progress but way too slow.  Not enough approaches, not enough dates, not enough balls.

Your post reminds me that being successful with women takes being willing to change your life's direction, which is, I have to just choose (i) or (ii) and commit to it fully, not to try to avoid it.  My decision: screw it, I'm moving to East Africa.  It's what I wanted to do anyway, I was just letting the risks, downsides and complications hold me on the fence.

I'm really glad you posted this, even if it falls on deaf ears with OP.

Cheers!


Space,

There are two types of guy wrt women: (i) naturals, and (ii) us.  Naturals don't come on forums, they'd laugh at us all.  As for (ii), we have been so thoroughly brainwashed by society's crap that we have two choices: (i) accept that deprogramming the dysfunctional mentalities and replacing them with any measure at all of proficiency with women is a full-time job, or (ii) accept pussy table scraps at best, or celibacy at worst.  Thinking of this as a hobby is like getting behind the wheel of a car once a year and then expecting to get hired to drive an emergency vehicle.

Re. not wanting to share FRs, you justify this with compartmentalizing theory and practice.  This is not a useful strategy.

Let's say you want to build a house.  I don't care if you've read 100 carpentry books, if you've never picked up a saw before, you're going to be doing all sorts of mistakes that you may not even notice or where you may see that something went badly wrong but you don't know why.  If you're doing it alone you're going to scrap it and start over, and over, and over, for a very long time.  If on the other hand, you had a seasoned carpenter watching you, he'll quickly spot the mistakes you're making and show you things the books either didn't say or said in a way you didn't relate to that situation.  You'll correct your errors much faster.

Think of sharing your experiences and reading the experiences of others as a bridge between the theoretical and practical - the two don't exist in isolation.

Re. not having time to write them, damn I can relate to that.  Just about every interaction I record detailed voice notes shortly after it happens, but it's a pain to turn those into a polished post, and I tend to go into a lot of detail so they do take a long time to edit.

So what do I do?  Well, I don't write up them all.  Just some, where either something was more interesting, or I'm not so sure where I went wrong.  The ones you think you or others could learn the most from, write up those ones.

Cheers,

Phoenix

p.s., I agree NiceGuy110's post was good and could've generated more helpful anecdotal replies, although to some extent chickening is something you just gotta push yourself to not do.
 

Mr.Rob

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Space you once again completely evaded a direct answer to the valid points I brought up. lol

Space said:
Back to field reports. I wrote about it in the first post of this thread that I value theory and practice on a 50%-50% ratio. If I were to record every interaction in detail on this forum or elsewhere in great detail (at least in my current state, I did not even allocate 50% of my resources to theory; I'm totally clueless, so a clueless field report is less valuable than a field report when actually having a clue, right?), I literally wouldn't have time to live. It would take out time from me actually studying some solid theory of pickup (no. 2), doing the actual approaches (no. 6, but I already have a private notebook), and not to mention I have a life besides all of this. At this point in my life I feel like I just want to incorporate pickup as a casual hobby into my life, not some deep obsession. I said, casual hobby (last paragraph). No. 6 (writing field reports) comes after no. 2 (getting your hand on some solid theory). But this is Roosh. So.
Were not asking you to post every single interaction, just 1 detailed report so we can see where you're actually at.

With all the writing you've done on this thread since my last request you could've easily spent that same time writing just 1 real field report. probably would've been a lot easier for you actually.

No one here has any idea of where your at, what your sticking points are, where you think you can improve, or what your goals are. Your just a big question mark.

In other words we have no clue how to help you achieve your goals if your truly here for self improvement with your dating life.

I guess if you want to post longwinded theory posts of other people's unoriginal ideas and see who comments thats cool (I guess) but I don't see the point of your activity on the forum otherwise.

What exactly do you hope to get out of participating on this forum?
 

radeng

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Space,

The core of this community is based around action and evidence based approaches. A few of the principles I find most important, I will list. If you disagree with these principles, you probably aren't going to convince anyone here of other principles based on what you read, but only on the results you report. We've all soon Roosh's shit. I think he has some OK shit, but you can stop telling us how he and others do things. This community is not that community. It never will be even if we upgrade to the coolest forum SW in the world and chase uses the best marketing tactics jesus ever created.

1) Sex is king. Unless you are getting laid you aren't getting results. If results to you means that more girls flirt with you, cool. But guys who are actually experienced know flirting means next to nothing... in fact most things leading up to sex mean next to nothing. Until the p is in the v, you ain't shit.

2) Moving fast is almost always better. The best chance you ever have of having sex with any one girl is the day you meet her. From there it will go down for about a week until you can no longer get her to meet up with you 1 on 1. (The caveat is social circle. But social circle in my opinion is impractical for many and not the best way to get women unless you already have a big social circle where you are considered fairly high status. If you have that, then it's a matter of just making moves on girls and creating situations to make moves on girls. There is not much focus on social circle in nearly any pick up community because its inefficient and unpredictable. I won't go into my theories on why its both better and worse than cold approach. For me, cold approach is king, and even those who teach social circle, cold approach is how you grow it.)

2) Fundamentals are the basis on which everything else is set. Fundamentals are in general, body language, tonality, style, and vibe. They are hard to describe. Looks certainly do play a sizable part.

3) there is no wrong or right way to do the rest of game. high energy or low energy, canned or natural -- it ALL works if your fundamentals are tight. Most guys who have high lay counts (30+) have gotten laid in many different situations when they were feeling many different ways. Most will have developed a bunch of canned routines by putting together patterns, just like you are trying to do. There isn't a best way to game.

4) Dominance is extremely important, but it's usually portrayed through the law of least effort. This means, you have to do a lot of work socially to look like you are doing less work than anyone else lol. It's paradoxical, but so true. At some point, you actually will be putting in very low effort for very high results, but the time it takes to get there may be a long road.

5) Anything that is out of your control is not an excuse. It is something you have to learn to over come. Your'e 4'10" and have one arm? Too bad go approach. You live with your parents? Pull to the girls place. You're 50 and scared of being creepy by talking with 20 somethings? Get over it, there's tons of girls into older guys, if a couple think you are creepy when you are trying to find the one that doesn't then so be it.

In regards to logistics. You don't know shit about logistics. Mr. Rob here has a bunch of LR's where he drove 30 min, stayed out at bars all night sober, and pulls girls on a 30 min drive. If your logistics suck, yes, it will no doubt make things harder. But there ain't no excuse. If you are having trouble closing because of logistics, then you did something wrong or did something sub optimal. If you just conjecture that logistics are the problem, you will never get better. There are many places on the boards that are stickied where Chase emphatically reiterates not to believe what you read on the internet, but only what you can test and validate.

I guess the point I'm ultimately making is that I whole heartedly agree with Rob, that your attitude on this site is shit. You need to be constructive and not demeaning. And no FRs are not for entertainment, although they can be entertaining. They are for learning. So either learn with us, help us, ask us specifics or go some where else. For fucks sake man, we've had enough criticism from space for one lifetime.

The community is small because we basically alienate guys who get on here just wanting to jack each other off with some unproven conjecture. Kind of exactly like you are trying to do. We enforce that guys go out and field test things. If that's not you - then stay on Rooshes forum where you can complain about women together.

And stop this interlinking bullshit too. Its annoying AF.

Also, answer Rob directly next time.

PS if you are very inexperienced with women, that is totally OK. We've ALL been inexperienced at one point, and some of us took YEARS of practice and iteration to be totally socially confident. Would seriously love to help you point out specifics and weak points in your game. You don't necessarily have to write a whole FR but you do have to give real life example of where things turn sour. Other wise, this forum has never been big on just debating silly topics like the ones you post. We are action oriented and we pride ourselves on that.

PPS - If you ask me how to read chase for someone who doesn't know anything, then go on the site and filter by author chase and then read them in reverse chronological order from 2008 until 2013. Then do the same for Ricardus until he leaves as an author. Those are all the most foundational and important posts IMO.

radeng
 

Michal

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Jul 5, 2013
Messages
260
Space said:
I still got absolutely zero feedback on this, on where to start with some structured advice from Chase (he has plenty of free advice), besides reading a few of his random articles.
Chase created an assessment quiz about a year ago, it is on the front page, in the header of the website, in a popup, you cannot miss it. You answer 10 questions and based on that, it roughly assess your skill level with women and provides you with an e-book. It has like 40 pages I think with links to specific articles which should help you get to the next level.
 

Mr.Rob

Modern Human
Modern Human
Joined
Jun 16, 2013
Messages
1,760
Location
Orlando
Radeng I appreciate ya co-signing. Well put summary of GC core beliefs.

And this was pretty good as well:
And stop this interlinking bullshit too. Its annoying AF.
Space you already know what time it is dawg.
 

Sub-Zero

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Sep 6, 2014
Messages
702
Yeah I kind of just gave up on women because I don't have my own place and I'm ashamed of it. Guess I should change that?





radeng said:
Space,

The core of this community is based around action and evidence based approaches. A few of the principles I find most important, I will list. If you disagree with these principles, you probably aren't going to convince anyone here of other principles based on what you read, but only on the results you report. We've all soon Roosh's shit. I think he has some OK shit, but you can stop telling us how he and others do things. This community is not that community. It never will be even if we upgrade to the coolest forum SW in the world and chase uses the best marketing tactics jesus ever created.

1) Sex is king. Unless you are getting laid you aren't getting results. If results to you means that more girls flirt with you, cool. But guys who are actually experienced know flirting means next to nothing... in fact most things leading up to sex mean next to nothing. Until the p is in the v, you ain't shit.

2) Moving fast is almost always better. The best chance you ever have of having sex with any one girl is the day you meet her. From there it will go down for about a week until you can no longer get her to meet up with you 1 on 1. (The caveat is social circle. But social circle in my opinion is impractical for many and not the best way to get women unless you already have a big social circle where you are considered fairly high status. If you have that, then it's a matter of just making moves on girls and creating situations to make moves on girls. There is not much focus on social circle in nearly any pick up community because its inefficient and unpredictable. I won't go into my theories on why its both better and worse than cold approach. For me, cold approach is king, and even those who teach social circle, cold approach is how you grow it.)

2) Fundamentals are the basis on which everything else is set. Fundamentals are in general, body language, tonality, style, and vibe. They are hard to describe. Looks certainly do play a sizable part.

3) there is no wrong or right way to do the rest of game. high energy or low energy, canned or natural -- it ALL works if your fundamentals are tight. Most guys who have high lay counts (30+) have gotten laid in many different situations when they were feeling many different ways. Most will have developed a bunch of canned routines by putting together patterns, just like you are trying to do. There isn't a best way to game.

4) Dominance is extremely important, but it's usually portrayed through the law of least effort. This means, you have to do a lot of work socially to look like you are doing less work than anyone else lol. It's paradoxical, but so true. At some point, you actually will be putting in very low effort for very high results, but the time it takes to get there may be a long road.

5) Anything that is out of your control is not an excuse. It is something you have to learn to over come. Your'e 4'10" and have one arm? Too bad go approach. You live with your parents? Pull to the girls place. You're 50 and scared of being creepy by talking with 20 somethings? Get over it, there's tons of girls into older guys, if a couple think you are creepy when you are trying to find the one that doesn't then so be it.

In regards to logistics. You don't know shit about logistics. Mr. Rob here has a bunch of LR's where he drove 30 min, stayed out at bars all night sober, and pulls girls on a 30 min drive. If your logistics suck, yes, it will no doubt make things harder. But there ain't no excuse. If you are having trouble closing because of logistics, then you did something wrong or did something sub optimal. If you just conjecture that logistics are the problem, you will never get better. There are many places on the boards that are stickied where Chase emphatically reiterates not to believe what you read on the internet, but only what you can test and validate.

I guess the point I'm ultimately making is that I whole heartedly agree with Rob, that your attitude on this site is shit. You need to be constructive and not demeaning. And no FRs are not for entertainment, although they can be entertaining. They are for learning. So either learn with us, help us, ask us specifics or go some where else. For fucks sake man, we've had enough criticism from space for one lifetime.

The community is small because we basically alienate guys who get on here just wanting to jack each other off with some unproven conjecture. Kind of exactly like you are trying to do. We enforce that guys go out and field test things. If that's not you - then stay on Rooshes forum where you can complain about women together.

And stop this interlinking bullshit too. Its annoying AF.

Also, answer Rob directly next time.

PS if you are very inexperienced with women, that is totally OK. We've ALL been inexperienced at one point, and some of us took YEARS of practice and iteration to be totally socially confident. Would seriously love to help you point out specifics and weak points in your game. You don't necessarily have to write a whole FR but you do have to give real life example of where things turn sour. Other wise, this forum has never been big on just debating silly topics like the ones you post. We are action oriented and we pride ourselves on that.

PPS - If you ask me how to read chase for someone who doesn't know anything, then go on the site and filter by author chase and then read them in reverse chronological order from 2008 until 2013. Then do the same for Ricardus until he leaves as an author. Those are all the most foundational and important posts IMO.

radeng
 

Mr.Rob

Modern Human
Modern Human
Joined
Jun 16, 2013
Messages
1,760
Location
Orlando
Sub-zero, you dont have to be so insecure man. Girls are more concerned with how you feel about your situation than how they feel about. Girls just want a strong man secure and confident with where he's going in life, whether you have to live with your mom or you own a mansion.

Im a bit down on my luck at the moment and live with my parents and I still go out to meet girls no problem, (though my logistics are technically bad). I know Im working to get out of the situation and confident in my future.

Dont give yourself such a hard time, cut yourself some slack as long as your working to get that 1% closer every day to reach your goals in life brutha.
 
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