Reflecting on my College Experiences

[Bboy100]

So I just graduated college yesterday. I figured now would be a good time to reflect on my progress. Hopefully the lessons I've learned will help some of you guys learn as well

I really consider my college career to have started 2, not 4 years ago. Prior to that, I went to community college, met no girls/new people. I just hung out with the same group of 5 dudes playing videogames and watching movies every weekend.

Once I transferred to a four year college, I ran into GC. And also, I started to make new friends and have new experiances. Effectively, everything I'm going to talk about in this reflection happened within the past two years.

Here's a list of the highlights:
- First time going to a party
- First Date
- First Kiss
- First time having sex
- First threesome
- First time having sex with someone while others were watching
- First time having sex with a married women
- First time having sex with a girl within 10 minutes of meeting her
- First time having sex with a SOBER girl within 15 minutes of meeting her.
- First fuckbuddy
- First substantial longer relationship
- First breakup
- First time dating multiple people
- Boosted my lay count to a low double digit number (I started at zero)
- I overcame approach anxiety
- First time getting to a point where people knew who I was as soon as I walked in the room
- First time getting my heart broken
- First time having public sex
- First time getting blown by a girl who I had talked to for less then a minute (total)
- First time pulling a girl from a party (without having known her prior to that)
- First time I had sex with a girl at her house while her parents were there
...and so on. Those are just off the top of my head


Here are some of the biggest lessons I've learned:

1. It's not all about sex: It took me a while to get this one through my thick skull. Believe it or not, having sex with random girls is not the answer to living a happy, fulfilled life. In fact, after a while, it gets kind of stale. It's the same thing almost every time. You go on a date, you have chemistry, you touch her a little bit, you makeout with her, you ask her to come home with you. You have sex with her. Wippitdy Fricken Doo. Thing is...when you wake up the next morning, your life hasn't really changed in any way. Sex with strangers is hedonistic pleasure at best. Its like eating ice cream. Its fun while you're doing it. But it's not going to make any substantial difference to your life.

...which leads me to

2. You're not a badass just cause you fuck a lot of girls really fast: Sure, you feel like kind of a badass for getting a girl you met only hours ( or minutes) ago to submit to you. Its a thrill. It raises self-esteem. It makes you feel masculine. Like you're doing something other guys could only dream of doing.
...But sooner or later, you come to understand:

The reason you pulled off the things you did probably had less to do with you and how much of a bad ass you are and more to do with the girl herself. Let's take the threesome I had as an example: They literally invited me to come have a threesome with them off Tinder. Nothing else. Like...they wanted to do it with someone. I was interchangeable. I wasn't a bad ass cause I made them do something they wouldn't normally do. They did what they were gonna do anyways. I just happened to be at the right place at the right time.

Admittedly, this is an exception and not the rule. Let's find a more suitable example: Let's say you take a girl home within 10 minutes of meeting her. You might feel like you have "good game" and that you're "alpha". And damn, maybe you are. But the fact of the matter is, the reason she went home with you is because she just wanted to fuck. It didn't have to be you. It could have been any guy who she finds attractive. Don't believe me? Try repeating whatever you did on her with a girl who's more conservative or looking for something else at that particular point in her life. You'll find that the same "process" is a lot less likely to work.

2, I prefer relationships over hook ups: As human beings, we have a desire to connect with one another. That's why we're called "the social animal". Sex is a type of connection. So admittedly, boning random sloots is better than nothing. But the truth is, as mentioned in #1, its still kinda hallow. It doesn't do much other than make you feel like the shit for a very short period of time.

On the other hand, relationships create a much deeper connection than just sex and nothing else. They require more vulnerability. And frankly, more maturity. But the rewards they reap are far greater. Because in a relationship (weather short-term and open or long-term and committed), the women understands you. She values your ideas, your opinions, your values...who you are. And you do the same for her. This is a type of connection much deeper and more significant than sex.

3. Moving Faster is Not Always Better: This was another one which really took a while to get through my thick skull. And to be completely honest, GC is very responsible for part of this. Thanks to a lot of the articles I read on here, I had this very misguided conception that "if I don't fuck a girl on a first date, I'll lose her". That was basically my mentality. And man did it hurt me...

I always got too aggressive on dates. Tried to push things too far. So much so that girls would always get uncomfortable around me. Even if they were into me at the start! I've lost more girls thanks to this misconception than most guys meet in their entire lives. The only reason I finally realized this line of reasoning was bullshit is because of my ex girlfriend. She was a virgin when I met her. So it took me six full dates to get her to fuck me. But once it finally happened, I was spellbroken. I realized that it's not about moving fast. It's about reading the situation and adapting to it.

4. It's not all about "dominance" or "having balls" or anything else along those lines: So, a lot of dating advice tells us to basically be dominating, assert what you want and go after it and the girls will swoon. While this is not necessarily false, in fact its very much true, it seems that its often overhyped. Especially within the pick up community. A lot of people seem to have this misconception that "dominance=get the girl". This is false. Dominance is very helpful. But if you're doing everything else wrong, you're only gonna make the girl uncomfortable.

I'll give you guys an example from my beginner days: It was my second date EVER. I met this girl off Tinder who I still think is one of the coolest girls I've ever met. Unfortunately, I was fucking up in more ways than I can count. Regardless, I was very dominant. I kept touching her on her thighs (even though she told me it made her uncomfortable). I tried to kiss her (even though she gave me the cheek 10 minutes ago). AND ALL OF THIS WAS IN THE MIDDLE OF A COFFEE SHOP AT 7:30 PM LOL! Everything I did took a lot of balls. Especially repeatedly trying to kiss her. But the fact is, she wasn't into me, so all it did was make her uncomfortable. She would have FAR preferred a more timid man who did a few other things right.

Disclaimer: I don't actually blame GC for this mindset. I could have just as easily chosen to disregard this advice. I take full responsibility for the things that happened in my life. All I'm saying is that the only reason I had this mindset in the first place is because of GC articles

5. Having Friends is just as Important as having Girls: When I first moved into my four year college, I was all about finding friends and trying to make connections. But it wasn't because I wanted to actually be friends with them. It was because I was hoping they would introduce me to hot girls I could fuck. I didn't consider that they can be valueable for their own sake.

After a while, I realized that my friends actually fulfilled a lot of the needs that girls do. Like I said at the start...relationships are about building connections. Well guess what...YOU CAN DO THAT WITH FRIENDS TOO! And friends are for life. Most girls aren't. Sure...there are some things you can get out of a relationship which you can't get some friends. But the opposite is also true. In general, as soon as I found friends who I really loved and connected with, the quality of my life increased substantially.

6. Getting girls is not about "going out to game": This was another big one. I used to take Chase's advice of "going out with a goal". "Do x number of approaches" or "request for x phone numbers" or "invite x number of girls home". Not only was this a recipe for anxiety, but it made me look thirsty, and it made everything I did robotic. And it totally ignored what I just said...interactions are about connection building. If all a girl is is just a number to me, I can't build a connection. Because I've put up this wall of superficiality. Now when I go out, I just go out to "have fun" or "try to find out interesting things about people". My results and the overall amount of satisfaction I get from going out has skyrocketed since I took on this mindset.

7. Most of the Limitations you think you have are all in your head: This one is very hard if not impossible to grasp without first gaining some experience. But basically, almost every time you feel awkward about doing something around or with a girl (like say...inviting her home,or asking for a phone number, or direct opening, or making an outrageous remark) is all in your head. The truth is, most people don't care that much about what you say and do. And most girls have seen and heard it all already anyways. You probably won't do anything weird that 10 other guys haven't already done this month. Plus, you have a very miscaliberated sense of "what's weird". Most things you think are weird are actually totally normal. So basically what I'm saying is before you have some (lot) of experience, you can't trust your intuition. You have to just keep trying new shit and see what works and what doesn't. That's the only way to calibrate yourself.



I just realized that I could go on and write all day. And this post is already super long lol. So I'll cut it off here.

Cheers guys!

 

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

Good stuff man, I made some decent friends in college too, sucks that most of them were against game and partying and all that jazz. Even then, I wish I had spent more time going out to bars with my friends rather than going out alone trying to run night game, didn't have much luck there. I am still a virgin but thinking long term, I realize that what I really want is that feeling of belonging to a large community of others around my age who are going through similar things in life and only college offers that.

It's like I know that I can get with lots of different women in the future, that is pretty much a given to me, but I wonder sometimes if I will ever get a chance to make a lot of new friends, enjoy big social gatherings, party hard, and belong to a large community instead of being a misfit my whole life.

In my college days I did make some friends but our goals didn't align. A lot of them wanted to watch Netflix on a Friday night while I wanted to party. A lot of them were uber-religious (went to school in the south) while I was not that hung up on morals all the time. While graduating as a virgin doesn't really bother me, what does is all of those social experiences I missed out on and wondering if I can really experience anything in the real world that would rival all of that.

 

[Drck]

Excellent points, super post!

1. It's not all about sex: It took me a while to get this one through my thick skull. Believe it or not, having sex with random girls is not the answer to living a happy, fulfilled life.
>>>> Great point, agree 100%. I got 'offers' for sex, yet if I don't feel anything I decline. It's pointless, even risky (STD) for no reason. I don't want to break anybody's convictions, but having sex with random girl is just not fulfilling... You want to have good emotional connection first, then the sex comes itself, you don't really have to push for it...

2. I prefer relationships over hook ups: As human beings, we have a desire to connect with one another. ... relationships create a much deeper connection than just sex and nothing else. They require more vulnerability. And frankly, more maturity.
>>> Yep. The Connections are sweet, many times much sweeter than sex!

3. Moving Faster is Not Always Better: This was another one which really took a while to get through my thick skull. And to be completely honest, GC is very responsible for part of this
>>>> Another great one! If you try to move fast(er) with a girl that you really like, you may lose her - and very fast! You will be much better off if you simply wait several weeks, as long as she is responding to you. But again, it all depends on your mind set. If your mind set is just to bang as many girls as possible, you are wasting time by waiting. If your mind set is more oriented towards LTR, couple weeks of waiting may be truly amazing investment...

* I was actually many times confused as well. I followed the "bang her within 3 dates or let her go" and I lost many great girls that I really cared about. There were great vibes, great emotional connection, but the second that you mention your place she puts her breaks on... from that point it is usually down the slope, she is getting colder and colder... By the time you realize what is going on she is gone... ALL YOU NEED IS TO SHUT UP AND WAIT TILL SHE OFFERS, which may take couple of weeks - but who cares...???

4. It's not all about "dominance" or "having balls" or anything else along those lines: So, a lot of dating advice tells us to basically be dominating, assert what you want and go after it and the girls will swoon. While this is not necessarily false, in fact its very much true, it seems that its often overhyped.
>>>> As always, everything is just relative.

* If a girl is too dominant herself, you may create a great attraction by being more dominant. She may love the sex. Yet at the same time, LTR will most likely not work that well because both of you like to be in charge.

* If a girl is too passive, perhaps rather feminine, your natural dominance (assuming that you have good fundamentals) is good enough. No need to go overboard. Look at Trump and his wife. He is too dominant, and she is rather just passive 'trophy' wife, pretty yet perhaps not so smart, not so assertive... Dominant woman wouldn't probably stay around Trump for long time as she wants to make some decisions too...

* It is always better to learn to be more dominant and then tone the dominance down when needed, vs being more passive/submissive and try to jack the dominance up. It is much easier to 'downgrade' from dominance to being more equal, vs upgrading from submission/pasivity to more dominant position... You don't want to push the ball up the hill, it is much easier to let it roll down slowly...

* It is good to keep some power in LTR. If a guy is aiming for LTR, he should keep some 50-55% of power in the relationship, especially if she is more dominant. Which means he has to actively manage the relationship, observe how she behaves and how he behaves... If a guy has too much power, she will not feel comfortable (assuming that she is a mentally healthy girl and not immature) around him for too long, she will feel that he has all the cards in his hands while she has none... Nobody wants to be in position when you don't have any influence over what is going on... The problem with many guys in LTR who have Beta-ish behavior is that they gave all the power to her, even just slowly and over period of long time... She now has 80% and he 20%... It may work for little as she feels in charge, but then she will get bored with him and will start looking for replacement... He will then ended up with broken heart, bills, children and house taken away... Classical Red Pill stories, eh...

* So if you meet a dominant girl that you really like, you have to sort of play a game. You have to sort of let her win while managing the relationship. You have to let her make some of her decisions, yet you have to make your own decisions otherwise you will be eventually disrespected. It's not really about "The Game", it is more about understanding the relationship dynamics so you know what is going on, what is needed in order to make it work... Yesterday's "Game" was too static, too structured... Tomorrow's "Game" has to be more fluent, more dynamic and pliable, we need to understand more about what is going on in the attraction and potential relationship, we need to catch up with girls who are many times 500+ years ahead of us...

* I've met many hot girls that chose to be with Beta-ish guy. My fucking jaw drops how beta the guy is, after reading seduction/PUA it doesn't even make any sense... Who would think that hot girls want to be around Beta boys? It goes against everything you read in seduction community for years.... The thing is girls are in charge even though many times they make it seem that he is. She has the power, she has the cards in her hands with Beta boy, whereas she knows she is powerless around Alpha-ish guy... She can dump Beta boy anytime she wants, yet she knows she may be dumped by Alpha guy anytime he wants.... So that's the POWER, nobody wants to be dumped, nobody wants to be powerless and end up with broken heart.... She usually does it for resources, she even chooses him at the beginning as he is basically a good provider, good guy. This is very complex issue though as for the first couple of years (of relationship of marriage) he is getting a good rewards for his provider-ship by emotional satisfaction and sex, however she will eventually get tired of his Beta attitude and will start looking around. It's the classical "Beta bucks and Alpha fucks". Once you as a seducer adapt more Alpha-ish lifestyle, you will notice that many taken women will show a great interest in you... She has the power to dump him, she is bored and seeking excitement... Many times is a very difficult decision for women to chose between being a good wife vs having a good fuck with exciting guy...

* Another thing, lots of girls/women feel quite comfortable around Beta-ish guy, and they feel very anxious and uptight around Alpha-ish guy. They feel high attraction to Alpha-ish guy, they smell the sex and excitement, but at the same time it makes them very uncomfortable especially if they are rather conservative... So if you as a seducer develop Alpha-ish attitude fast while not having lots of experience or while not getting her to the bed fast, you may find lots of girls rejecting you when you finally decide to move things forward. This is when the "attraction has expiration date" truly works very well, you got to move very fast and you can't hesitate... Here is a news: IT MAY ACTUALLY BE MUCH BETTER FOR YOU TO REMAIN IN BETA-ISH ATTITUDE AND WAIT in order to get that girl, because this way you will have some time to get your intentions together... It all goes back to being congruent: Do not pretend to be Alpha/sexy guy if you don't have much experience, it will backfire at you...

5. Having Friends is just as Important as having Girls
>>>> Yes. If you don't have friends, if you are not that social, it may be the ONLY reason why you got rejected by that girl that you really wanted. She likes you a lot, she wants to be around, she is very excited to see you - but if your social life sucks, she doesn't want to hang around you for too long... Which really sucks...

6. Getting girls is not about "going out to game"
>>>> Yeah, remember, as the time goes you develop your own mind and your style... It's not that easy for beginners, they need some guidance, some plan, some game...

7. Most of the Limitations you think you have are all in your head
>>>> Dude, you fucking read my mind! Great post!

 

[mindful]

Great post. I've had a lot of these similar thoughts that you wrote about. Grats on graduating!

 

[Average]

Powerful stuff bro.

Not only will this post help me learn faster, but the points about friends will really improve my quality of life. Plus added the connections means added business opportunities.

 

[Fuck This]

I like the Ice cream analogy related to casual sex. Think of the relationship as a four or five course meal. A lot more memorable and satisfying right?

 

[jdoc]

Great post, bboy!

Congrats in graduating! Few comments.

3. I think the mantra 'moving fast' is helpful and should be done. But at the end of the day, I think you can only move as fast as a girl will allow you to. You should move as fast as the girl will allow you to, which means you should not be too aggressive and pushy.

5. Completely agree with you here. Good friends are the ones that will stick around, and have your back through thick and thin. Friends are people you can connect with with no hidden agenda. You're just there to share the good vibes.

7. Great insight.

Jeffrey

 

[Bboy100]

I think the mantra 'moving fast' is helpful and should be done. But at the end of the day, I think you can only move as fast as a girl will allow you to.

Exactly! The problem is that a lot of the articles on this site, particular some of Chase's earlier articles seem to imply or even explicitly say that you must seal the deal within 1-2 dates. And if you don't, you're fucked.

This is not true. It can take any number of dates to get a new girl to have sex with you. The bigger point to keep in mind is that you don't want to miss cues that she's ready to sleep with you. But it's not about a certain number of dates or a certain amount of time spent together. It's about emotionally connecting and reading the situation correctly. And that is something this site misses entirely.

Also, a lot of the articles say that you should always try to escalate things as far as she will allow you. It also states that the only way to find out how far she will allow you to go is to keep going. Because "reactions vs results".

This is also a bad strategy. Because the truth is, if you push too far too fast before a girl is comfortable with it, you will lose a lot of girls. I can think of TONS of girls from my past who liked me, then I pushed too far, then they went cold on me. I had trouble scoring second dates for A FULL YEAR because I was convinced that "attraction expired" every time. But that's not what happened at all. Girls simply didn't like what I was doing, but didn't have the balls to tell me that on the date itself. Instead, they just chose to ignore me after the date (which is fine! I don't blame the girls for this. I blame my faulty model for how dating works).

 

[Smith]

Great insights BBoy,

Congrats on graduating too. Just graduated myself too and I've realized similar things too. I guess the journey does bring you the insights you need at the right moments.

Moving fast is good, but does require a lot of calibration. And I think one of the misconception I had in the beginning was that because I thought "attraction expires", I assumed the more time I spend with a girl before we sleep together, the less likely I'll sleep with her, which is not true at all. The more time you spend with a girl and make her feel comfortable and aroused, the more likely you'll sleep with her. Time is your ally...Don't rush. But at the same time, have the balls to pull the trigger.

 

[jdoc]

Good stuff guys. To add, I think in its essence, moving fast means hitting escalation windows and moving forwards (not backwards).

Jeffrey

 

[Virgin101]

Having Friends is just as Important as having Girls: I realized that my friends actually fulfilled a lot of the needs that girls do.

Let's not get all nostalgic now... I'd rather a man's jealously than his friendship

 

[Bboy100]

I'd rather a man's jealously than his friendship

That's bullshit. Friends help you get laid. They introduce you to or at the very least, make you look better in the eyes of the girls you meet. Especially in college. Moreover, I never said they have to be men. In fact, I find friendships with women to be more rewarding than friendships with guys. Also, I used to have the same mindset. And tbh, it comes from a place of insecurity...its cause you want the validation of people around you. If you're reasonably secure in who you are all on your own, you won't care weather or not other men are jealous of you.

 

[Virgin101]

I'd rather a man's jealously than his friendship

That's bullshit. Friends help you get laid. They introduce you to or at the very least, make you look better in the eyes of the girls you meet. Especially in college. Moreover, I never said they have to be men. In fact, I find friendships with women to be more rewarding than friendships with guys. Also, I used to have the same mindset. And tbh, it comes from a place of insecurity...its cause you want the validation of people around you. If you're reasonably secure in who you are all on your own, you won't care weather or not other men are jealous of you.

Point taken!

 

[Big Daddy]

Incredibly valuable post, I'm going to read it calmly later. But for now, I want to address this point here real quick (I didn't read any of the other stuff on Hector's post about the same thing so bear with me):

I think the mantra 'moving fast' is helpful and should be done. But at the end of the day, I think you can only move as fast as a girl will allow you to.

Exactly! The problem is that a lot of the articles on this site, particular some of Chase's earlier articles seem to imply or even explicitly say that you must seal the deal within 1-2 dates. And if you don't, you're fucked.

I completely agree with jdoc here, and I see where you are coming from with this "it was not you, it would've another guy" angle because I felt the same way in the past as well.

BUT don't you think that's only because there's still a tier of women we're not able to tap into currently? I remember Franco saying to me once that what is the sexiest thing for women in a men is the man that can sleep with her faster than she would imagine herself doing it.

While you'll be only be able to sleep with girls that you let you do it, the better you are at seducing girls the better you'll be able to amplify her desires and inject adventure in her life, even she was, to use the same example, religious.

I think what really would make you feel masculine the way you describe is pulling (consistently) girls that couldn't believe themselves that they'd sleep with a guy in XYZ conditions, specially so fast, but she still did, and that was incredibly exciting for her.

What I'm trying to say is, sure, you can see some success going for the easy targets when you're going from zero girls to some success with girls, but there's still another level to go.

 

[Bboy100]

While you'll be only be able to sleep with girls that you let you do it, the better you are at seducing girls the better you'll be able to amplify her desires and inject adventure in her life, even she was, to use the same example, religious.

Yes and no. I think the better you get at this, the more girls you'll be able to sleep with quickly. That's definitely a factor. BUT, saying that that's all there is to it is largely discounting the female perspective.

I briefly mentioned how time is a comfort building mechanism in Hector's thread. But I'll elaborate here a little more so you can understand why regardless of how "skilled" you are, there are some women who won't fuck you on a first date.

There's this concept in evolutionary psychology called "romantic proof". That basic idea is that in prehistory (which is when our brains evolved to function the way they did), women who were impregnated & abandoned or their man died in combat had a very high mortality rate. For both her and her baby. Skyrockets to like, 80% or something.

Obviously, if her mate dies in combat or disease or whatever else, there's nothing she can do about it. But at the very least, she can select for men who demonstrate that they're likely to stick around. You know what the biggest indicator that a guy will stick around is? Time he spends with her. Why? Because everything else he says or does in regards to his willingness to commit can be a lie. Whereas time spent with her is what's called an "honest signal". It can't be faked. You either did or you didn't put in the time. Now...don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying that she consciously looks at it this way. It's not that she necessarily thinks this is gonna be a serious relationship or you're supposed to imply that you're gonna commit to her or anything like that. I'm just saying that women interpret time spent with her as an indicator that she's more likely to thrive in any type of sexual relationship with you. So the larger point is simply thus: Time, for some women, is a necessary ingredient to building enough comfort for sex. These women are sexually disgusted by guys who are unwilling to put in said time. No matter how good their game is. Similar to how we're sexually disgusted by fat chicks.

Btw, if you read a romance novel, you'll see this in action. Even if the guy encompasses the "bad boy" or "lover" archetype, he usually doesn't sleep with the heroine till way later in the book. After they've gotten to know each other very well and spent a lot of time together.

So how does this translate to what I'm talking about? Well its simple. If a girl is looking for a long-term mate or a husband or w.e then she's unlikely to fuck a guy on a first date. Having said that, there are exceptions. If you're a 7 and she's a 4, then even if she's normally looking for an LTR, she might be open to hooking up with you. She intuitively understands that she's incapable of getting you to commit to her. And for her, your genes are good enough that its worth taking the risk anyways. I'd like to emphasize that this is still all unconscious. None of this registers to her logical mind. This is why if you've noticed, the girls you can hook up with are usually lower quality than the girls you can get if you show them a willingness to date.

So ok, then you can just become super high value and boom. You'll always be "the exception". Right? That' a good line of thought, but its unrealistic. Because there will always be plenty of women who are going be equally high value (and btw, they are the ones you're going to be looking to date). Even if you really have your shit together. Even celebrities have women who are of equal value to them. See: Brangalina. Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt are about equal in value. And Brad Pitt is a modern day sex symbol. He's about as high value as you're gonna get. So even he has to show romantic proof. And you or any average guy is probably not even gonna get close to him. Therefore, there are always going to be at least some women who are going to expect some level of romantic proof from you in the form of time.

Of course...the big question on your mind is going to be: Okay, but then why have I hooked up with girls who I liked a lot before. There are some girls who were close to my value who I slept with on a first date.

The answer to this question is simple. There are some women who are open to hook ups. They're not looking for or at the very least, don't necessarily require a relationship. If you're talking about this kind of girl, time is not as relevant. Instead, what's relevant to romantic proof is is what Chase has dubbed "attainability". Basically, "attainability"=romantic proof for short term mating. But obviously, this is not all girls. So adapting the mantra of "move fast" with every girl regardless of who she is and what she wants is retarded.

Romantic proof is also the reason why I think the concept of necessarily moving fast is kinda ridiculous. Cause if anything, its the opposite.

So the long of the short of it is: It really does matter what she wants in life. Her perspective is important. Because if she's high quality and she's looking for an LTR, she has no incentive to fuck you before you've put some time in with her. It's not just about your "game" and your "skill"

 

[Big Daddy]

OK, I read the whole thing on this thread and on Hector's and basically everything that I wanted to communicate with the questions above is what Hector wrote in his original response.

I'm sure that being a professional writer & more experienced, he'll give a more eloquent answer to your second reply, but here's my quickie on the whole thing:

I think most of the issues you have ties back with Hector original post about being flexible with your interpretations. I will take a example where my reaction was vastly different from yours to illustrate the point: using conditionals with your gf (or parents, or friends, or brother, or children or anyone).

While you saw that as manipulative and treating someone like a dog, I saw a brilliant idea to finally communicate to people what I'm comfortable with and what I'm not without wasting both of our energy by dragging drama over months of "working things out."

It goes back to frame control, really. Even if you choose not to take a stance in "manipulating" someone, you're still holding to a frame and you're still manipulating someone to a certain extent (everyone is).

On your latest LR, if a friend from that girl later convinced her that you actually manipulated her into sex even though you mentioned repeatedly that you were genuinely interested in helping her... well, what gives? Did you? Did you not? You see how there's no certain answer?

Now, after reading everything, I can anticipate your answer to the question that I pose above.

You mention a girl where you managed to do that and it played out badly. But Franco -- whom I personally feel is of one of the most genuine gentlemen breed you'll find -- did the same with a girlfriend of his and the man said over and over for a long time about how happy she was and how good their relationship was. Now, I don't know if they're still together, but even if they aren't, from what I can tell she was in a very fulfilling LTR for a pretty good chunk of time.

So insisting on the point evoked on my OP, maybe there's still some rocks for you to jump over. Maybe you're still fucking up in some details that makes them feel bad the next day. Maybe you don't know how to address it. I don't know either, man.

To sum it up, to me personally it sounds like you're being too stiff in your interpretations of Chase's points and choosing to focus on the possible drawbacks of his advice if misunderstood instead of empowered by the possibilities if applied correctly.

(There's absolutely nothing you'll ever come across in life where what you read is what you get, thus, I don't see why having some drawbacks while you figure out how to exactly use the advice in your particular case seems so unexpected.)

 

[Big Daddy]

It seems we posted at the same time.

So ok, then you can just become super high value and boom. You'll always be "the exception". Right? That' a good line of thought, but its unrealistic. Because there will always be plenty of women who are going be equally high value (and btw, they are the ones you're going to be looking to date). Even if you really have your shit together.

Yeah, I wondered about this for the longest as well. I asked Hector about it and he said something along the lines of "you have to always be working to be at the top 0.01%. It's not easy, and that why few get there." Franco echoed a similar sentiment in this post:

What you're missing here is the element of you -- women always have a solid level of abundance, but they always feel like they are lacking absolute abundance. Essentially, you're downplaying how much of an amazing man she sees you as.

Assuming you've been attentive to her feelings while simultaneously giving her amazing sex on the regular, you might just be the most amazing man she has (and ever will have) met. So think about that for a minute... and then think about how much it would cost her to let you go at the age of 32. Chances are, she won't have a man of your caliber again, right?

I did the same thing for a bit when I started my relationship with my girlfriend. I devalued some of the time we spent together, and it made me realize that that time was extremely invaluable to her because of the way she viewed me -- I'm the most amazing thing she's come across in her entire life. She values every single minute she spends with me, and while she has her own interests and passions as well as other men kissing her feet, you are the guy that makes her heart flutter and her mind race.

Don't devalue the man this website teaches you to become. It's part of the reason we often tell guys to not hurt girls here -- we know that we are the best out there. =)

- Franco

Essentially, if you work at it, you'll always be "above" women because they'll never reach absolute abundance, even top caliber ones.

But yes, I think it would be interesting to have Chase discuss a little bit about his recent takes on relationships because I feel that would be a "realistic" stance to have without being Brad Pitt. Plus, as you said, GC is 7 years old, so probably a lot has changed in how he handles it.

My personal take is: instead of deeming this or that as realistic or not, the best thing we might do is to work up to the top find out by ourselves then draw our own conclusions. I value Franco's take on this enough to be interested in giving it a shot and discovering it by myself.

 

[Bboy100]

Yeah, I wondered about this for the longest as well. I asked Hector about it and he said something along the lines of "you have to always be working to be at the top 0.01%.

So first of all, I don't think this is possible for most guys. When we talk about being attractive in the general sense, its possible to make up for pretty much any deficancies you might have. But if you're talking about being in the top .01%, there are probably some things which are outside of your control. Because if you're talking about a tier like that, then you have to outcompete guys on EVERY front. You have to be super good looking, super tall, super charismatic, super rich, super empathetic and kind, super dominant, super intelligent, high status, probably famous (are .001% of guys famous? not sure. But its definitely getting there), super mentally healthy, super in shape, super good game, massive social proof.

Even if you hypothetically got most of this handled, there are definitely three things outside of your control

1. Intelligence (very attractive to women) is mostly genetic.
2. Looks (they're malleable via fundamentals, but still partially genetic).
3. Height

Again...look & height are not usually super important. But when you're talking about being better than any guy a women will ever meet. Well, then everything becomes pretty relevant.

Want my honest opinion? I bet Chase and Franco both dated down and they just don't know it because its been years since they tried taking longer than one date to have sex with a girl. And don't get me wrong, I'm sure they're with great girls who most guys can only dream of having because they really are high value guys. And I bet their relationships are great. Otherwise they would have done something about it. But regardless, they probably could have done even better if they didn't insist on moving super fast with every girl they meet.

And besides, even if there was a way, why would you put in so much effort? Like..its so much more efficient to just go on a couple extra dates with a girl then it is to become superman.

 

[Drck]

"And besides, even if there was a way, why would you put in so much effort? Like..its so much more efficient to just go on a couple extra dates with a girl then it is to become superman."

THAT! Totally agreed, you got talent bro, keep rolling... It's much better and easier to go out with one girl and wait for sex then meet new and new girl each time... it is less effort, but that probably depends on your overall sociability and experience... Sex itself with new girl is not that satisfying, it's much better with some emotional connection, it's better when you know she is into you as well...

 

[Big Daddy]

I think the only thing we disagree, and that leads to everything else, is how far you can "realistic" get into the attractiveness scale.

I believe that you can get that far if you put your mind to it; numerically speaking it doesn't seem unfeasible to me, personally. But I don't think you'd be interested in that, so I'll leave it at that (unless, of course, I'm wrong!).

I just don't think there's much of a point in your "arguing" against the downsides of Girlschase's advice because if you're coming from that perspective, it's really not 100% geared to you, so obviously there'll be a mismatch. (Though personally I like to read this kind of criticism from time to time.)

I think Chase assumes you are one of the guys who want to get to that 0.01% (maybe not anymore, since the audience is much broader). But you are the one who's coming from another perspective... and well, you already acknowledged that so I think we closed the loop ;/

And besides, even if there was a way, why would you put in so much effort? Like..its so much more efficient to just go on a couple extra dates with a girl then it is to become superman.

Well, this is easy. Simply because I have an itch to be part of the 0.01% in every other aspect of life too. I want to kill it. It's not for the women. Even if I could instantly attract any girl I wanted as of now, I'd still be determined to be part of the 0.01% because that's me.