Remind me of the dream

[Zoro]

Edit: I should have called this thread give me tough love for fuel on my inner fire. Remind me what life could be past an addiction so I don’t forget. That will go further than any advice you could give (ive heard and done it all) because what I’m doing is working, it just requires constant reminding.

 

[ferrero]

@J Wick,

First and foremost, if you have an addiction that is seriously affecting your life, please go see a therapist. With all due respect, most PUA’s are not going to be qualified to help you, and even in the case that someone here may be qualified, they’re not in a position – nor is a PUA board an effective medium/place – to help you effectively. A therapist would be a better option, in my humble opinion.

With that said, and though I am not a therapist or a doctor, and though I especially don’t want to make myself sound like an authority figure on the matter, I have quit a couple of things people might call addictions, but which I’d more accurately classify as compulsions. In my case, I was more addicted to processes and feelings than substances – in other words, I had “behavioral” addictions.

To quit, I had to separate myself completely from the stimulus and the surrounding contexts and circumstances. To put it more plainly, and to give an example: when I decided to quit weed (which took like a bazillion tries), I:

• threw away all my bongs, pipes, wraps, etc., even the ghetto homemade ones I had
• got rid of all the rest of my weed
• deleted dealers’ numbers
• distanced myself from friends I would smoke with… when they’d call or text, I’d make an excuse… “I’m busy”, “ah, I’m tired bro gonna nap”, “I’m heading out of town in a little, sorry”, and so on.

Basically, I removed any possibility I would run into a situation where I would smoke. Now, I have to reiterate I was more addicted to the process than to the substance – had I had a real addiction, I don’t know how feasible something like this would be. I probably would have had to move to a new locale to completely remove myself from the context of smoking. And truth be told, marijuana is not a super addictive drug on its own the way, say, crack-cocaine is.

But anyways, it worked for me. I used this same process for quitting drinking as well. And I’m now currently using this process for what I would consider mildly-excessive porn use – though with porn it has been trickier, because:

• it is a more natural, biological urge, and to put it bluntly, I cannot just “throw away” my dick, nor do I want to
• I’ve been doing it since mid-teens (I’m mid-20’s now, so a decade-plus of compulsive porn use)
• Electronics / internet use is basically mandatory nowadays. I have to turn my devices off to do the equivalent of throwing away the bongs and pipes in my weed example – can’t throw away my phone or laptop! (trust me, I tried!)

Additionally, it is my own personal belief that masturbation is perfectly fine and natural and healthy, but like everything else should be done in moderation; further, I’m really not all that bad with porn. I’m on the lower end of quote-unquote “porn addiction” spectrum. I’m relatively fine. I just want to be better, and I think cutting it out of my life will help put me move towards completing my goals (I should say, cutting it out for the most part – watching the odd video here and there with your partner is fine, and I actually think it is natural and healthy to do so).

But anyways, sorry for rambling. I think you get the gist of it – I don’t mean to tell my whole life story on your post but rather to share my view on the process.

This is what I’ve done to overcome my addictions. Again, if your addictions run deep, then this advice may not be advisable—I do not know any details of your situation, other than what you’ve posted.

To sum up: if your addictions are serious, see a therapist; if they’re not, well:

Honestly, I think that finally moving out of my mothers house and being able to do what I want (having money!) will help a ton. It’s the one area of my life that is lacking besides the addiction obviously. I feel pretty solid on everything else.

This is pretty much what I would do, personally.

I’ll just add as one last note that the thing that drove me to quit more than anything else was being sick and tired of doing the same thing over and over, and thus remaining stationary or even regressing in life. It seems like you’re in a similar position, so I think goal-setting and setting a super-strict schedule may do you wonders, as you’ll get a shitload more done and you won’t have any spare time or energy to partake in your addictions.

That’s pretty much all I got for you @J Wick, and I get the feeling that you're gonna be just fine in the end Best of luck buddy.
~timo

 

[Zoro]

Let me preface my response with this. I wrote this right when I woke up, so I forgot my purpose in sharing my situation.

I actually meant to ask for some tough love.

I have become numb to my comfort zone and content with my little corner of stability. What has helped me in the past is reminding myself what I am capable of, and how without the addiction, I am capable of so much more.

I would like to cultivate some pride in myself and some anger for my situation. Something I've learned about through men's work and have a coach in this, so I will be able to harness that anger and pride in healthy way. I cannot be prideful about a life as an addict. But my pride is like a tiny flame, it needs kindling with some anger and some reminders of the dreams I have and am squandering.

So please, I invite some tough love and motivation. I have big dreams. Help me my anger and pride.

First and foremost, if you have an addiction that is seriously affecting your life, please go see a therapist. With all due respect, most PUA’s are not going to be qualified to help you, and even in the case that someone here may be qualified, they’re not in a position – nor is a PUA board an effective medium/place – to help you effectively. A therapist would be a better option, in my humble opinion.

Yes, I have seen therapists. They are costly and did not offer me much more than conversation. Something I have found freely with friends. I do have a therapist friend that understands "deep work" and work with him from time to time. But the most impactful things have been trusting myself as well, as working with men's groups. Jungian psychology and working with the archetypes as well. The king is in the process of consolidating his power and claiming his throne once more, for those who know.

What this forum can offer, is that men's space that is so important. The men here understand a masculine man's drive, and pride. I ask for that brotherly love now, a love that is firm and unforgiving, yet uplifting and motivating. Spur me, don't let me take my situation lying down. I'm actually am not, but I could use more fire and earth. The king and the warrior, as a Jungian might put it.

To quit, I had to separate myself completely from the stimulus and the surrounding contexts and circumstances. To put it more plainly, and to give an example: when I decided to quit weed (which took like a bazillion tries), I:

• threw away all my bongs, pipes, wraps, etc., even the ghetto homemade ones I had
• got rid of all the rest of my weed
• deleted dealers’ numbers
• distanced myself from friends I would smoke with… when they’d call or text, I’d make an excuse… “I’m busy”, “ah, I’m tired bro gonna nap”, “I’m heading out of town in a little, sorry”, and so on.

Basically, I removed any possibility I would run into a situation where I would smoke. Now, I have to reiterate I was more addicted to the process than to the substance – had I had a real addiction, I don’t know how feasible something like this would be. I probably would have had to move to a new locale to completely remove myself from the context of smoking. And truth be told, marijuana is not a super addictive drug on its own the way, say, crack-cocaine is.

I've tried this. I've found that it's better to learn to live with the vice around me, because it's not going anyway, and I can't function in the world like a normal human if I lock myself away.

But anyways, it worked for me. I used this same process for quitting drinking as well. And I’m now currently using this process for what I would consider mildly-excessive porn use – though with porn it has been trickier, because:

• it is a more natural, biological urge, and to put it bluntly, I cannot just “throw away” my dick, nor do I want to
• I’ve been doing it since mid-teens (I’m mid-20’s now, so a decade-plus of compulsive porn use)
• Electronics / internet use is basically mandatory nowadays. I have to turn my devices off to do the equivalent of throwing away the bongs and pipes in my weed example – can’t throw away my phone or laptop! (trust me, I tried!)

Additionally, it is my own personal belief that masturbation is perfectly fine and natural and healthy, but like everything else should be done in moderation; further, I’m really not all that bad with porn. I’m on the lower end of quote-unquote “porn addiction” spectrum. I’m relatively fine. I just want to be better, and I think cutting it out of my life will help put me move towards completing my goals (I should say, cutting it out for the most part – watching the odd video here and there with your partner is fine, and I actually think it is natural and healthy to do so).

My addiction is actually to porn. I agree masturbation can be healthy, and subscribe to the taoist and tantric ways of masturbating. It's more like a massage and meditation in one, it's a deep practice. However watching a screen and hitting the dopamine button with a jackhammer is not anything like mindful masturbation.

I’ll just add as one last note that the thing that drove me to quit more than anything else was being sick and tired of doing the same thing over and over, and thus remaining stationary or even regressing in life. It seems like you’re in a similar position, so I think goal-setting and setting a super-strict schedule may do you wonders, as you’ll get a shitload more done and you won’t have any spare time or energy to partake in your addictions.

I am indeed sick of it. But I've become numb too. I would like to inspire a super sayian pride, and get pissed again.

 

[Darius]

hey man,

I have some experience with this addiction, pretty much since my early teens (when the nofap movement started). I'd like to share some thoughts and perspectives I wish someone would have told younger me about, and perhaps saved him from some heartache and shame.

Growing up for me, porn was never an issue. I discovered it young like pretty much every other kid, starting with magasines and the occasional late-night show when parents weren't home. When I turned 10, I got home internet, and with it, all the booty pics I could ever want. And it was never an issue. Naturally I had my troubles as a teen, I was shy and barely had any girls, but that's just how life was. I never attributed it to porn. Moreover, I did great in school and was loved by parents and close friends.

Eventually I got to a place where I felt I was stuck, which is coincidentally when the nofap epidemic started. Pretty much everywhere, men in droves began abstaining from porn (some even from sex altogether!) and touting the benefits and 'superpowers' it brought them. I was instantly hooked, and started straight away blocking myself from porn.

And it felt good! For a while, it really felt like something was changing. There was a constant horniness and discomfort in my mind, but it *felt* like the good kind of discomfort. Like going to the gym. No matter what I'd be doing in life, I'd always think "hey, at least I'm progressing on that". Years on end I was trying and trying to go for ever longer streaks of abstinence, and finding ways to cope with it, but never truly succeeding. I was following blogs, motivational speakers, SAA meetings, heck there were people talking about biblical reasons or religious beliefs against porn and sex in general. It was eerily like a big cult.

Here's what they don't tell you about nofap: you WILL PMO again. Maybe a day from now, a week from now, or years from now. You will do it. And when you do, because you are steeped in no-fap culture, you will feel horrible about it. You will feel guilt, remorse, and like you cannot control your actions. And what's more, you will not feel good about yourself again until you get back to that "streak" you were holding earlier. You know what that's a recipe for? Lower productivity and motivation. It's also a recipe for instant gratification cravings. i.e. PMO i.e. the very thing that no-fap makes you abstain from.

The truth is that nofap culture is based on what you should NOT do, and very little on what healthy sexuality looks like. It's kind of similar to a fad diet that just gives you a list of foods to avoid. It works *in theory* and will get you slim if you follow it, but for 99% of people it is not sustainable at all. Yet, if you think about it, most people are not overweight. So what gives?

Well, most people follow balanced diets, they eat the occasional McDonald's and they work out every now and again. And it's EASY. They don't spend their time obsessing over that burger that they ate, or starving themselves because of a cheat meal they had. Sexuality is the same - it should come EASY. Yeah you jerk it to porn every now and again, just like messing up and going for a McDonald's. Is it healthy? No, of course not. But is it worth obsessing over and dedicating your life to avoiding McDonald's? No, that is not productive either. Far better thing to do instead - continue eating as normal and maybe add a little cardio on top of your workout. And you maintain a healthy enough weight that allows you to function optimally.

As much respect as I have for western thought, there is a clear tendency to take good, sound principles to the extreme (as you can clearly see with the moral crisis affecting the West right now). nofap was the beginning of it, and in my opinion, none of us could see it.

It took me years to realise there is another side to it, and to addiction in general. And I did it by reading respected literature (which still does not recognize porn as an addiction) and psychology, not some Atkins-esque guy that promotes a radical way of living.

When I did, I released all that guilt and shame I once had. And I reduced my porn usage naturally. A little while later, I got a girlfriend, which made me replace the rest of my porn usage with actual pussy. All the while I never felt any guilt or remorse for it. I focused on the things that really matter. I still use porn today, and while it's not healthy, it hasn't negatively affected my life in any way since I quit nofap.

I really hope this provides a new perspective and maybe helps someone reading it - and I'm sorry for the wall of text.
~Darius

 

[Starboy]

Bro if your addiction is to porn and not an actual drug or substance than it shouldn't hurt your life so bad. Not saying porn addiction isn't serious,but for a guy as immersed into game as yourself it should be easier to handle. The way you mention addiction i'm thinking you do coke or something lol. We literally have a room to help against porn addiction ask @fog.

I can crave porn too and can be addicted at times,but I know I can manage it if I take the right steps. If I go to the gym and lift weights and check out the hotties over there I won't wanna fap to pictures on the internet because I know they're fake. What would these girls that I admire from the gym think of me if they knew I had a porn addiction? They would instantly find me less attractive because a man who's doing well not just with women,but in his life wouldn't need something so artificial. Also I can feel some shame because I know if I did choose to indulge in porn it would be because deep down I don't feel worthy or deserving of attractive women so I settle for these girls on the screen.

Idk what your situation is like,but if you constantly keep yourself busy and have girls in your life you shouldn't need cheap dopamine. You should have hobbies or activities that give you joy or purpose and reduce the desire to fap. If you constantly jerk off to porn you're gonna feel lethargic and lazy and it's gonna be a nasty cycle. Sometimes I will look at some porn girls twitter activity and go meh boring who cares. I almost wish I could be excited lol. That's what building up a resistance against porn looks like.

 

[Zoro]

Here's what they don't tell you about nofap: you WILL PMO again. Maybe a day from now, a week from now, or years from now. You will do it. And when you do, because you are steeped in no-fap culture, you will feel horrible about it. You will feel guilt, remorse, and like you cannot control your actions. And what's more, you will not feel good about yourself again until you get back to that "streak" you were holding earlier. You know what that's a recipe for? Lower productivity and motivation. It's also a recipe for instant gratification cravings. i.e. PMO i.e. the very thing that no-fap makes you abstain from.

I agree with everything you're saying.

But that's nothing I didn't know. I do appreciate your thoughts though.

The thing is, my usage goes way beyond here and there. A single session can last hours.

I've done the inner work on all that you brought up. What I feel is lacking right now, is my fire to fight it. I have the tools, I just need to maintain the spirit.

 

[Zoro]

Bro if your addiction is to porn and not an actual drug or substance than it shouldn't hurt your life so bad.

Don't underestimate it.

I can crave porn too and can be addicted at times,but I know I can manage it if I take the right steps. If I go to the gym and lift weights and check out the hotties over there I won't wanna fap to pictures on the internet because I know they're fake. What would these girls that I admire from the gym think of me if they knew I had a porn addiction? They would instantly find me less attractive because a man who's doing well not just with women,but in his life wouldn't need something so artificial. Also I can feel some shame because I know if I did choose to indulge in porn it would be because deep down I don't feel worthy or deserving of attractive women so I settle for these girls on the screen.

Idk what your situation is like,but if you constantly keep yourself busy and have girls in your life you shouldn't need cheap dopamine. You should have hobbies or activities that give you joy or purpose and reduce the desire to fap. If you constantly jerk off to porn you're gonna feel lethargic and lazy and it's gonna be a nasty cycle. Sometimes I will look at some porn girls twitter activity and go meh boring who cares. I almost wish I could be excited lol. That's what building up a resistance against porn looks like.

This right here is what I wanted. Thank you Starboy. This fired me up.

 

[Egor]

You have to understand that today's internet porn, as a media, is intentionally designed to hook you fast and then never let you go. It is not your fault that you are an addict. It is the most potent and powerful media form in the world. The problem, and you kind of alluded to it- is that porn or porn's influence is everywhere. Porn is in the eye of the beholder, so for example if I look at tik tok, that stuff is like all web cam porn to me. They all look like cam girls. If you are an addict to pmo, all these little things in today's media lead directly to the slippery slope of more PMO.

 

[ferrero]

Hey @J Wick,

Ah, I see, yeah I was more responding to this part –

Has anyone overcome an addiction? How did you do it?

versus what you wanted, which was –

I actually meant to ask for some tough love.

So, that’s kinda where the miscommunication comes from, sorry about that. I, too, wrote my response early in the morning and so I hope I didn’t come off as dismissive of your problem, or if I came off as a know-it-all, or if I seemed condescending or whatever – not my intention at all brotha, I assure you

As far as tough love goes… I think there are plenty of people here who are better suited for giving such than me all I can give you is strategy, as in, the strategies that has worked for me in the past, based on my experience.

I do want to clarify my statements a bit knowing this –

My addiction is actually to porn

K, perfect, It’s good to know what you’re working with now. tbh I still stand by what I said at the end of my original response: I think you’ll be fine at the end of the day. It's more than likely in my guesstimation something that you'll get over at some point or another.

I've tried this. I've found that it's better to learn to live with the vice around me, because it's not going anyway, and I can't function in the world like a normal human if I lock myself away.

Just to clarify, I wouldn’t advocate locking yourself away, I just meant removing yourself from habit-triggering situations (I should have used that wording in the first place) – this means, if anything, the exact opposite of locking yourself away, as locking yourself away would, in my opinion, probably drive you to be watching more porn. That’s why I recommended strict schedule- and goal-setting, or similar to what @Starboy wrote, always being busy and not having time for cheap dopamine -->

so I think goal-setting and setting a super-strict schedule may do you wonders, as you’ll get a shitload more done and you won’t have any spare time or energy to partake in your addictions.

which =

idk what your situation is like,but if you constantly keep yourself busy and have girls in your life you shouldn't need cheap dopamine. You should have hobbies or activities that give you joy or purpose and reduce the desire to fap

I'd also like to add a little note on behavioral addiction this comment got me thinking about:

Bro if your addiction is to porn and not an actual drug or substance than it shouldn't hurt your life so bad.

Don't underestimate it.

Read the book by Adam Alter called Irresistible, it gives a brief overview of the rise in behavioral addiction stemming / correlating largely with the rise in smartphone and social media use (which, I think we can fairly group together with porn use; most of the book deals with tech addiction, though porn addiction is only touched on in passing, sadly… should have had it’s own chapter, in my opinion). @Egor touches on this with his comment, too.

I think there’s still this disconnect within a lot of society that being addicted to something behaviorally is not as serious as being addicted to something substance-wise – and while physical substance-based addictions can be obviously more noticeable, and on the surface may appear far more damaging, behavioral addictions can be quite damaging as well. Think of a gambler who throws away his mortgage and his children’s college funds for his gambling addiction. . . though we might not see him “damaged” based on appearances like you would a heavy meth user, there’s no arguing he’s psychologically damaged. Of course, now we're comparing extremes, but all I mean is that behavioral addiction can be damaging in a similar way to substance-based addiction.


And I'm also interested on the "no fap" discussion here,

I was following blogs, motivational speakers, SAA meetings, heck there were people talking about biblical reasons or religious beliefs against porn and sex in general. It was eerily like a big cult.

The truth is that nofap culture is based on what you should NOT do, and very little on what healthy sexuality looks like. It's kind of similar to a fad diet that just gives you a list of foods to avoid. It works *in theory* and will get you slim if you follow it, but for 99% of people it is not sustainable at all. Yet, if you think about it, most people are not overweight. So what gives?

I think now is a good time to introduce the distinction between “no fap”, as in not jerking off to porn or at all, and “NoFap” the movement, which to me is a lot like AA for alcoholics, where alcoholics quit their drinking addiction but then become addicted to AA in it’s stead – a point which @Darius points out quite well.


Lastly, relating back to porn, another pivotal point that has to be taken into account is that everybody is different: some people can jerk off to copious amounts of porn and be fine, and if anything it makes them hornier, and does not affect their life negatively at all; on the other end, you have guys who are so deep in compulsive porn use that they don’t do anything besides consume porn, and increasingly novel and taboo types of porn (Chase has written about this), and it completely ruins their life.

Most people are somewhere in between; from there you have to find an appropriate means of responding. This is where I think strategy comes into play. Maybe joining the group Starboy mentioned with fog would be a good start. Or maybe all you needed was a good kick in the balls as provided by @Starboy in his comment either way, hope you feel better J.

 

[HumanWhoLearns]

Darius had a good post above. I also struggle a little bit with porn addiction. For me, it's very damaging to the point where I don't want to use it anymore. It makes my mental health conditions worse and completely drains my energy. This causes me to procrastinate and puts me farther behind in areas that are important to me like school and social life.

If you think that you can't make changes on your own, I'd recommend you find a psychologist who specializes in addiction - who has experience treating porn addiction if possible.

There are a few simple strategies you can try to abstain. A lot of these come from Atomic Habits by James Clear.

• Make it difficult to perform your bad habit (get off the computer before the time you usually watch porn)
• Make a list of alternative activities or hobbies you can do when you feel like watching porn. This might be a good time to go out and talk to women.
• Make yourself accountable to somebody else. Tell a friend what you're trying to do and have them hold you accountable. Pay them in money if you fail.
• Keep a picture of your ideal future self in your mind. Make the future more important than current pleasure. See Neuro-Discipline by Peter Hollins or Psycho-Cybernetics by Maxwell Maltz for more information.
• Keep track of your successes visually. For example, everyday you don't watch porn you can add money to a recreational fund for a trip or something. If you fail, you have to give it away.
• Meditation helps you strength the connection between your prefrontal cortex (decision making, self-discipline, logic), and your amygdala (emotional response), which results in better self control.

 

[Lofty]

Know your battlefield.

Imagine an obese person who loves chocolate chip-cookies. No matter how hard they try, they just can’t stop going into the pantry and grabbing more and more cookies. It provides a momentary escape while they devour the yummy goodness, but as soon as the last crumb is engulfed, they go right back to basking in the masochism of self-hate.

Maybe the next thing they’ll say is even, “That’s it, that’s the last cookie I’ll ever take from the pantry!”

And you know what, eventually their heads drop, their heart sinks, and their feet shuffle right back to the pantry for some nice, good ol’ gluttony.

What’s their battlefield? The place where the battle is fought, where the decision is made to remain trapped at the whim of some preservative-filled cookie?

The battle isn’t fought in the pantry.

It’s fought at the grocery store.

Stop tossing six boxes of Chips Ahoy into the cart, and there won’t be any cookies in the pantry.

Your battlefield isn’t trying to resist porn as you flip open the laptop. That’s like walking naked into a warzone with pencil in your hand.

You know this is true because you've already tried a bunch of fixes, nothing has been a permanent fix, and now you’ve made this post out of desperation. Let’s get you equipped with the right weapons to win this war.

It begins with your ability to access porn. That’s your battlefield. Anything about some ego-filled mumbo-jumbo about wanting to be able to resist porn while you surf around a web of dancing girls - that's like sprinting on ice and promising yourself you won't slip. That's not a matter of Slipping vs. Will Power, just as this is not a matter of Porn vs. Will Power.

For another metaphor, it’s like trying to correct your posture by just thinking a platitude like, “Shoulders back, chest out!” while you never actually strengthen the muscles that will fix your posture long-term without even thinking about it.

I’m particularly sympathetic to your situation because I’ve been there. I’ve been through it. I know what it’s like to be stuck in marathon porn sessions for hours without end. I also know what it’s like to be stuck in those sessions when you can orgasm without ejaculating, and I know what it’s like to have your perceptions of sex completely fucked up by porn, and I know what it’s like to have a hot, naked girl asking to get railed while my dick is limp from porn-induced erectile dysfunction.

So I want you to get through this because it's been me, and more importantly, I’ve chatted with you many times and know that you deserve better for yourself. You’re passionate about building your business and have a vision of what you want your life to become. Your porn addiction is a stain on your life and only slowing down your progress. I’m going to tell you exactly what I did to solve this issue for myself after tons of research and hardship, and then you can make the decision whether you want to keep living in porn purgatory and regret this lost time for the rest of your life, or you can decide to kill this shit once and for all.

Here’s what I did and what I recommend:

• Install FocusMe or a related software. FocusMe allows you to block websites and keywords for certain periods of time. I set a 24/7 keyword block on porn-related terms, which if I remember correctly was built from a pre-existing setting called “Block Adult Sites.” Make sure to whitelist seduction websites so they won’t be blocked. If you're still dating the same girl and she's aware of your porn addiction, consider having her set the password and not tell you what it is. Or just type random characters so you'll never be able to turn it off. Add the software to all of your computers (you can use up to 5 devices for one account). Plus, FocusMe can help when working on things for business, too.
• Block all explicit content on your phone and set a passcode on the setting if possible - one that only someone trustworthy knows, or a random one that will ensure you can't change it.
• Permanently lock SafeSearch to prevent accessing porn-related images on Google or do the equivalent for whatever your preferred search engine is.
• Manually block any website that slips through the FocusMe filters (such as after a relapse). You may find yourself trying to game the software and attempting to scour the internet for something that slipped through the filter. If that happens, just block that website and add the relevant keywords to FocusMe. Maybe this includes something like Instagram. Too bad, block it if it turns into a soft-core pornography masturbation source.
• Download a free app called Reboot, which is just a very simple no-porn tracker. Check-in once daily to get the dopamine boost when you click that yes, you’ve been porn-free! Alternatively, or conjointly, join our Accountability chat and check-in daily.
• Consistently approach women for a healthy sexual release. And why not get the journal going while at it?

Another thing, too. It’s great that some guys can limit themselves to porn once a month, or whatever, enjoy it, and never have any issues with it. Awesome!

But I don’t give any fucks about those guys right now. I care about YOU. You wrote this thread because you’re NOT one of those guys right now. “Porn in moderation” never worked for me either.

So I say forget about all of that and just think about J Wick and improving J Wick’s life bit-by-bit. It reminds me of something really intuitive but also really enlightening that I read recently.

“Do what helps you, and don’t do what doesn’t.”

Do what helps you, and end this for good. Know what your battles are and win them before they're fought.

Make a commitment to yourself and change your life for the better, forever.

 

[Zoro]

@Lofty i appreciate the reply.

however I’ve done that many times. I ended up wasting more time becoming a hacker. I’ve hacked the most robust systems and found back doors to blockers over and over again.

it just makes it taboo and builds the pressure.

I’ve tried many strategies and what has achieved the best results is actually having unrestricted access.

that’s not the only part though.

the rest is having a project to pour myself into, and the drive to fight against my demons, as well as having a healthy way to process emotions and trauma.

I have the projects and opportunities.

I have men’s group that help me process.

what I need more of, is the fire. The reminders of what porn does to me and what my life should be.

that’s what I’m requesting.

you can share advices, you’re welcome to opinions on that.

frankly I Probably have tried them. You said I should know the battlefield.

I know little else better than this battle field, where I’ve both lost and won so many times.

when I win it’s because I have in the forefront of my mind the fire of life. The dream and the pain.

I have a bit of situational amnesia when it comes to porn. I forget that it’s what is dragging me down. And a “little bit” won’t hurt... then I fall all the way down the slope.

so I should have titled this thread, “give me tough love, invoke my pain and shame to use for my inner fire, help me cultivate pride and motivation for my future life.”

I don’t need advice. I wake up and show up everyday. Even after a porn session I dust myself off and grit my teeth, and step the fuck up.

it’s just a limp if it’s with porn. I want to thrive when I step up.

so again, share your advice. But that’s not what I’m requesting. I apprecaite the sentiment and I apprecaite the desire to help.

but hear me out and know that the best way you can help is to fire me up with reminders of what is right now and what could be.

I especially appreciate it from the men here. Who know the dream.

 

[Darius]

however I’ve done that many times. I ended up wasting more time becoming a hacker. I’ve hacked the most robust systems and found back doors to blockers over and over again.

it just makes it taboo and builds the pressure.

I’ve tried many strategies and what has achieved the best results is actually having unrestricted access.

same here. Bluecoat K9 was great, it was almost impossible to get around, but I still had the admin password so not much use there. Maybe if you got a friend to hold the admin pass for you.

the rest is having a project to pour myself into, and the drive to fight against my demons, as well as having a healthy way to process emotions and trauma.

I have the projects and opportunities.

I have men’s group that help me process.

what I need more of, is the fire. The reminders of what porn does to me and what my life should be.

man i still don't think you're going about this the right way. If you don't have the motivation for the projects that you have, then you need to re-evaluate why you are doing them. In my opinion, you're focused on the wrong thing. Waging war on yourself is not the solution. It is not sustainable. Motivation comes and goes. What you need is enjoyment of the actual process.

Check out topcat's post here - https://www.skilledseducer.com/thre...tivated-for-long-term-goals.24628/post-133218, I think he put it very well.

Also Chase had a similar post on this - https://www.girlschase.com/content/self-cultivation-or-art-checking-boxes
From the post:

One of the points David Schiller makes repeatedly in his brilliant (though perhaps a bit stuffy if you aren’t into footnotes and exposition) translation of Confucius is a key difference between Western Judeo-Christian-Islamic thought and ancient Chinese thought: the modern West believes in ‘willpower’, in having to ‘will’ your way to victory, to win an internal battle with oneself... ultimately a battle with one’s own innate vices (gluttony, sloth, etc.).

Ancient Chinese thought had no such component. There was no need to ‘will’ yourself to do anything. You simply had to find the right way to tackle the thing.

I’ve been thinking about things from this angle recently. What if you discard the notion of ‘willing’ yourself to do anything, of ‘triumphing’ over yourself?

Because if you have to triumph over yourself, it’s not really much of a triumph, really, is it, if you’re having to beat back part of yourself to get where you want to go.

Wouldn’t it be better if all of you could come along for the ride?

While I can look back on every key stage of my development with women and say I ‘willpowered’ my way there, I can also look back at each one and say:

”I passed that stage because I found something I wanted to do more than I preferred to avoid it or do something else.”

Perhaps, instead of battling with yourself, you can find the easy way to do what you want.

In my experience it is the only way to truly succeed in a sustainable way. It is, at least, the only thing that worked for me.

 

[Will_V]

I've found that one of the best ways to overcome an unhealthy obsession with something is to use it to train the power of your real ego.

Need it right now? Delay it a few hours, or a day. During that time, burn into your memory the feeling of being in control. Spend that time doing real things for yourself, like spamming pushups as Chase recommends, reading one of the great books, or going for a midnight jog or sprint. Punch a bag, clean your room, do something to put you on the right track. The unsettled rage you feel is the real you.

Then, give yourself the 'reward'. But don't obsess over it or turn it into some trip, just get it over and done with.

You'll train yourself to realize by the different experiences which one is real and meaningful, and which one is meaningless.

 

[ferrero]

^ @Darius has the best response here. It's a good article, skimmed it and it resonates deeply, it's why I recommended to OP to focus on goal-setting (and schedule-setting), mainly as a way to find his "equilibrium"...

From Maxwell Maltz:
"Functionally, a man is somewhat like a bicycle. A bicycle maintains its equilibrium only so long as it's moving forward towards something."

So move forwards from here man, plenty of good advice on this thread to help ya out

Other than that, have you ever tried approaching it from a different angle and changing your views on porn itself? Instead of treating it like something that causes you to feel bad, think of it like:

• something that isn't bad and that isn't bad to watch from time to time - there should be no shame to watching porn (this is my view)
• something that simply isn't worth your time -- think of it like watching figure skating (unless you like watching figure skating, no judgement)
• something that you accept for the short term and work through, e.g. a mindset like "yeah I'm a watching a lot of porn right now but I'm kinda getting bored of it, might just stop soon..."

this is the less-radical route, and probably the more difficult long-term, though you might need something more radical, like completely banning yourself from watching it via @Lofty's advice. Either way, you should certainly forgive yourself for any past transgressions - ruminating on them helps you in no way.

Hope this helps bro!
~timo

 

[Lover]

I wish I could have made this post shorter. But I feel like I couldn't convey the emotions I wanted to do if I didn't write it like this.

So, [Super Mario voice] here we go!

I accept myself as a former porn addict. Currently, I relapse from time to time for a session or two on the same day.

Let me walk you through a little backstory about how I got here... because this is a forum where I believe personal stories makes more difference than telling you what to do.

I am usually the kind of person who gives a big fuck about the things I do. I tend to take myself too seriously. And if I want to quit a bad habit, it's kind of a big deal. This is also the kind of vibe I get from the OP.

Except... it never works when I treat bad habits - and even LACK of good habits - like a big deal. I have failed at this for so many years, especially when my self-development journey began.

As an example, I can quit drinking anytime with friends because alcohol is no big deal to me. I can go years without it if I wanted to.

Anyway. Let's only talk about letting go of bad habits.

I have tried the extreme "MUST FIX THINGS HERE AND NOW" approach for years. It never worked long term. I will relapse not long after I started to resist. And then it's back to the same level before I must resist it all over. And yes, it IS extreme because it will a long drawn battle to RESIST the urge, not to REDUCE and ELIMINATE it.

You probably know a smoker who is exactly like this. Quit for months, then relapse for years. If he asked you to “give me tough love, invoke my pain and shame to use for my inner fire, help me cultivate pride and motivation for my future life.”, would you seriously do that to him?

Let's say you did. What is most likely going to happen?

He will relapse eventually. Because that is how far motivational speeches will get us.

Since the new year, I have worked on becoming more patient as part of my groundrules. I have gotten so used to this fast-paced life that I thought getting over bad habits should happen fast as well. But wow... now I accept that getting over bad habits takes time.

Now, almost 10 months after NYE, it happens I relapse in few particular situations. I hope to eliminate it completely. But besides that, I tell myself "I'm going to regret watching it right now. There are so many better things to do". And even if I slip and enter a porn site, I may not get in the mood because I am already regretting I'm doing it. Then I quit and go work on whatever I can stimulate my mind with instead.

I don't know when I will quit porn completely. But the funny thing is, it was never about getting over porn...

But I have constantly been discovering groundrules for myself since last year. Almost like it's my own religion. And I think having something that I consider "above myself" like this is making me mentally stronger than any symptomatic treatment of porn addiction which I tried before. Part of my groundrules is being patient about the process.

For the first time in a long while, I actually feel like I can achieve anything because I made that choice to be patient about the process. And as time goes by, I find more tools, both mentally and practically, to not slip into indulgence again.

This is the best tough love I can give you. And I hope you will realize the kind of advice you're looking for will only get you that far.

Best of luck!

- Lover