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- Nov 14, 2017
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So, a first for me. I got a date by walking up to a girl as a total stranger in a shopping mall. Every other date I've ever had was at least mildly helped by some social network.
Mind you, it sort of violated "move fast", albeit not in a needy, clingy way. This was a girl I met a few months ago who had two days later been keen to meet. I missed the opportunity and the next day got a fateful wall of text suggesting "you should have met me while I was in the mood." No answer after four texts over the next days and weeks, so I wrote her off.
Technically I should've posted to the original FR, but could use feedback and the original story may not be that relevant. (Was likely my most well-executed daygame approach, even to date.)
If you're in a hurry, I underlined the most important uncertainties.
ch. I: The Resurrection
I now contact difficult girls right while looking for new girls, as a reminder that she's not the only girl on the planet. So here I was, in a mall, in the midst of another failed attempt to get Cherelle back out, when I decided, on a whim, to take a pot shot on Tanika after over 3 months of radio silence:
I almost answered "Come and find out (;", but I was a bit scared to. I wonder if I ought to have instead gotten more suggestive, though I'm not sure how I'd have done so adroitly.
When at first she didn't answer, I was almost certain that my "talk" remark had come across as weak and unsexy and that I had blown this.
Come Friday, a snag:
That worked with Cherelle, who was totally game and treated me without even a reminder, but Tanika's a different person. I think less cocky and more sensitive. (I like Cherelle a lot more, mentally and physically, but alas blew that.) So I wonder if I put off Tanika here. But I didn't want to just roll over like a lost puppy - doing so has never gotten me anywhere with girls.
She didn't answer that evening, and we were both silent on Saturday.
ch. II: Near Damnation
I had a problem. The nearby mall closes 5pm on Sunday, hosing my original plan of meeting there for coffee and then walking the girl to my home. No other coffee shops are a short walk. There are fast food places and small restaurants close by, but meeting in those for coffee seems strange, and I didn't want to get into a food date.
(In retrospect, food dates may be ok if I'm careful to not pay; worked fine with Camilliah, who paid without my asking and then invited herself home; but Cammie isn't exactly struggling.)
I finally went with a little bar I never go to that's on the same block as my home.
I was a bit nervous to let on to my proximity, but fuck it, I can't lie:
Her response made me immediatey regret explaining why I don't drive, as it seems to have come across as defensive. (That, or she was afraid she'd come across as a materialistic bitch...) I just didn't want to give the false picture of being some loser who spends an hour or two on busses every weekday... in truth, I bus like once in two months.
(These creatures may just force me to get driving - a horribly inconvenient proposition. Our strict permit procedures take a year and also require being accompanied by a fully permitted driver in the meantime - not easy for me, - and also require access to a vehicle which you ironically can't buy or rent because you're not fully permitted... and after all that mess I'm uncertain I'll even be living in this country in a year, so, um, yeah....)
I also didn't like this meeting half way business. Especially with her schedule, that would make a pull more difficult.
ch. III: Redemption
I decided to take a chance and just wind up downtown and try to get her out then and there. Going downtown just for an unconfirmed meet would've been pretty bad for my frame, but I had a solution. With the good weather, I'd been wanting to try street game, but my suburb is too spread out for it to be efficient compared with malls. By contrast, downtown has retail-dense streets with tons of foot traffic. This was a good excuse to finally hit them.
I didn't even answer. I just prepped, took off, and texted her once down there:
I'd placed myself a fair ways from her midtown neighbourhood, partly to not seem intentional but also because there'd be more foot traffic in the downtown core. I was hoping to know quickly whether it was on with her or not, so I could either just stay down there or travel up to her.
But texting dragged on enough that I had to start walking towards midtown to shorten the trip if she later agreed, especially given underground closures.
The scenery was nice but, being a bona fide melanin addict, the girls bored me stiff. In the whole 5.4mi/8.7km walk through parts of downtown and to the midtown date spot, I only saw like 4 black girls, two of whom were together. So, no approaches in spite of our temporarily beautiful weather. (Now you see why I want to move to Nairobi or Kampala? Lol.)
I got to the coffee shop with just enough time before 9pm to freshen up and get settled in. Then Tanika hit me with this:
ch. IV: Communion
Unfortunately I had to choose the date spot blindly. Most seating was only face to face. But there was a counter along the front window with tall chairs; I strongly prefer sitting beside the girl, so I sat there before she arrived.
Despite the cheeky subtitle, she in fact didn't grab herself anything, and I wasn't about to offer. That's the 2nd coffee date I've had where the girl didn't actually have coffee or anything else for that matter. Is this bad? LOL.
The girl's demeanour was different than I remembered or from texts. Now in person she was much lower energy, quiet, and reserved. Perhaps just tired from constant work. She did seem a bit frazzled, and mentioned her tiredness.
Recalling Seppuku's method, early on I asked Tanika how much time she had. She had to get going at 10pm and it was now 9:30pm! Ha, ha, ha. Well, ok, between this, her overall low energy, her practically living for her jobs which she'd likely have again in the morning, my having little excuse to get into her home and mine being way too far, and a hunch that she may not live alone, I decided that trying to pull tonight was likely futile. In part due to this, I didn't really get suggestive with touch; I did touch her, but more just to establish comfort for next time.
Didn't manage to sit as closely to her as I'd have liked. The default placement of the chairs put a good 18" between us. I'd have liked to close most of this, but putting my chair so close from that default would have, at least to me, felt gamey and trying too hard. I did pull my chair closer a couple times, but at the end we were still nearly 12" apart. I'd have much preferred a bench, where you can inch closer without making a production of it.
Her body language seemed a little closed off. Both elbows were on the counter with the forearms up. She accepted touch but she never touched back.
Verbally she was personable, though. I deep dove her, plus a little random chit-chat here and there. Conversation itself went fairly well. She probably did 70% or more of the talking.
She shared a fair bit, but there was one point where she said that something - I don't even remember what - was not something she shares on a first meeting. I may not have even asked her, but simply looked at her to continue when she had said something that led to it. When she didn't want to share that I just changed topics.
I shared a bit, but not nearly as much. Probably did a decent job remaining a little mysterious. I did show a few pics of my helping with and being in the Caribbean events. She's not very involved in that, but liked the pics.
One problem I had sitting beside her was something that also happened with Cherelle. She mostly just faced and looked forwards, while I was somewhat pointed along a diagonal half-way towards her, and was generally looking at her. I find it really strange and awkward to not look at someone I'm sitting and speaking with. My looking at her while she was not looking at me almost felt like I was gaming her. But I think not looking would have been strange and also would have curtailed any physical touching. How is this supposed to go?
There were a couple high points where she put her head forwards and low to the counter and turned to look at me with a smile. Maybe I should have used these points to escalate, but apart from being unsure of myself, I didn't really know how. Her hair was tied back, so brushing or playing with it was out. Maybe I should have stroked the side of her face.
I did touch at points but nothing really romantic or prolonged. Touched the closer arm or shoulder sometimes. Once, a hand on her back, and once grabbed near both elbows. (All clothed.) Touched her ear when noticing an earring. And her far wrist when noticing a bracelet. Briefly ran a finger along the pulled-tight hair when it came up in conversation.
I would've liked to escalate more but it somehow felt out of place. A little different than with Cherelle, where I had felt like I should be escalating but just didn't have the balls or know how. With Tanika, it felt more like escalating may have been out of place. Almost like passing up a perfectly good chance to open a girl vs. not opening a girl on her phone in a heated conversation.
There were one or two lulls in the conversation, and I totally forgot to try holding the tension and looking at her sexually instead of releasing it by starting a new thread. I find that happens a lot: I'll want to try something, but forget all about it in the moment. I still don't do enough interactions and tend to be too "in my head" to remember intended experiments a lot of the time.
I wouldn't call my body language terrible, but could certainly have been more sexy.
I found myself smiling a fair bit, but a kind of restrained, closed mouth smile. Would've been better shifted to one side. I also found myself laughing here and there; not in a "that's so funny" way, or in a nervous way, but more in a knowing way. These weren't consciously intentional.
Sought excuses to get into her home, but answers were unhelpful. No crazy items at home. Not much creative stuff; drawings, but she downplayed them. Forgot to try pets, but doubt it. I gave up here. I had rum on me, but proposing to go back to hers for a drink seemed a little forward when she likely wasn't fully into me yet, and it didn't even come to mind.
Fairly early on, I'd mentioned my creative works briefly. She showed some interest, so I suggested she should come out to see. She was a little ambivalent, expressing this being a possibility but at once also complaining that she doesn't usually travel for people any more, and went into a piece about how she used to do too much for people. (In retrospect, her frame here was that she'd be doing me a favour by visiting - a frame I should have broken.)
I expected her to cut things off around 10pm, and near that point I distracted myself a bit with my phone. We talked a bit more and she made some gentle suggestion of having to go soon.
She also said something about, if I had've picked another day, we could've chilled longer.
I wanted to sell her more on coming over to my place next time, so I brought back up the creative works and went into a bit more detail. She seemed a little more interested, and this time when I suggested she should come over some time to see, she was a little more positive and didn't bring up the travel issue.
With that out of the way and her seeming a little anxious to leave, I gestured towards leaving and remarked that I'd need to get going, too.
She proposed we walk to the corner together. I was ostensibly taking a bus from there and she going to pick up ground beef. It was well under a block, and we conversed idly.
We were coming from the south on the east side, and at the south side of the corner, she just continued towards the north side. I stopped, and when she saw this, she said something like, "I guess you're catching the bus over there," pointing to the southwest corner, and turned to face me. We said our parting greetings, I reached for her hand and we did the hand between fingers and thumb thing briefly, and then she left to the north.
I halfways wonder if I should've just went with her! But I'm not sure how that would've worked.
ch. V: Revelations
I find it interesting that I got her to meet in spite of her moody "not interested in meeting today" remark. This taught me something important - the ability to blast through her uncertainty and get her to do something, without even having to pester her, instead simply acting on the assumption that she'll comply.
There are two possible takes on what I did:
ch. VI: The Second Coming
So, now what?
The girl typically works 7 days/wk. The odd day she might be off very early, but it seems she typically works late enough that she may not be too keen on two hour-long bus rides to visit me.
I could wait until she has a day off or finishes early afternoon. This may make it more likely to get her to come out, but I don't know when such a chance will come, which might violate "move fast". Worse, my having to repeatedly ask her schedules might risk my becoming "that guy I'm always putting off", cementing negative compliance or at least making me seem needy.
Another option is to try to get to her place on a day she gets off at a reasonable time. Such days are more plentiful, so that minimizes the negative compliance stacking risk.
I could ask her if she has a TV. She probably does, and if so, I can put some stuff on a laptop and wire it up to her TV.
That does leave some questions:
OMG you're still reading? Thank you!
Mind you, it sort of violated "move fast", albeit not in a needy, clingy way. This was a girl I met a few months ago who had two days later been keen to meet. I missed the opportunity and the next day got a fateful wall of text suggesting "you should have met me while I was in the mood." No answer after four texts over the next days and weeks, so I wrote her off.
Technically I should've posted to the original FR, but could use feedback and the original story may not be that relevant. (Was likely my most well-executed daygame approach, even to date.)
If you're in a hurry, I underlined the most important uncertainties.
ch. I: The Resurrection
I now contact difficult girls right while looking for new girls, as a reminder that she's not the only girl on the planet. So here I was, in a mall, in the midst of another failed attempt to get Cherelle back out, when I decided, on a whim, to take a pot shot on Tanika after over 3 months of radio silence:
I left it there. I was going to write her the next morning but she beat me to it!
I was actually taken aback by "Netflix and chill". I am sort of under the impression that's a codeword for hookup. Was this girl suggesting a hookup herself?Thu.
10:55am: Her: Have a great day today! Goodmorning
11:02am: Me: Good morning Tanika. So, what hours are u working this weekend?
11:08am: Her: Pretty sure I am off this Saturday forsure! Sunday I work 7am to 10am then 4pm to 8pm. What about yourself?
11:34am: Me: I'm mostly free on Saturday. Let's grab a coffee or something! Can u make it to [ebonics nickname for my suburb]?
11:43am: Her: Nice okay! And yeah I would like that, & I more than likely can yeah.
11:46am: Her: It's a bit of a distance kind of, so I mentally get lazy about the bus but it could work most likely. I've been in an energetic mood most of the week, but what do you do when you aren't working? In other words do you have any hobbies? , do you go to the gym or sketch or idk Netflix and chill, what's your free time look like on a normal day
12:11pm: Me: We'll talk about that (; If ur still at [midtown intersection] it's literally one bus. Just get on the [bus which passes that intersection] and get off at [big street]. There's a mall right there, [bla], we can meet in!
I almost answered "Come and find out (;", but I was a bit scared to. I wonder if I ought to have instead gotten more suggestive, though I'm not sure how I'd have done so adroitly.
When at first she didn't answer, I was almost certain that my "talk" remark had come across as weak and unsexy and that I had blown this.
Nothing further.
Come Friday, a snag:
That's my usual strategy when a girl proposes a specific reschedule: accept, because it's a known-good day, but slap her wrist, because I'm not a pushover.
That worked with Cherelle, who was totally game and treated me without even a reminder, but Tanika's a different person. I think less cocky and more sensitive. (I like Cherelle a lot more, mentally and physically, but alas blew that.) So I wonder if I put off Tanika here. But I didn't want to just roll over like a lost puppy - doing so has never gotten me anywhere with girls.
She didn't answer that evening, and we were both silent on Saturday.
ch. II: Near Damnation
I had a problem. The nearby mall closes 5pm on Sunday, hosing my original plan of meeting there for coffee and then walking the girl to my home. No other coffee shops are a short walk. There are fast food places and small restaurants close by, but meeting in those for coffee seems strange, and I didn't want to get into a food date.
(In retrospect, food dates may be ok if I'm careful to not pay; worked fine with Camilliah, who paid without my asking and then invited herself home; but Cammie isn't exactly struggling.)
I finally went with a little bar I never go to that's on the same block as my home.
Now I'm confused. At first I'm thinking, "ok, lovely, another flake out", but the last text almost sounds like she's trying to work out logistics for after work.
I was a bit nervous to let on to my proximity, but fuck it, I can't lie:
Holy fucking God, that went south fast... "if there is a next time" ... ?!?! ... I wasn't feeling this vibe at all! To be honest, I'm almost confused at the fact that I finally got her out... I was almost certain we were done! In part, this is why I got so bold in pushing her to meet anyway - some instinct was telling me that if it didn't happen today it probably wasn't going to.
Her response made me immediatey regret explaining why I don't drive, as it seems to have come across as defensive. (That, or she was afraid she'd come across as a materialistic bitch...) I just didn't want to give the false picture of being some loser who spends an hour or two on busses every weekday... in truth, I bus like once in two months.
(These creatures may just force me to get driving - a horribly inconvenient proposition. Our strict permit procedures take a year and also require being accompanied by a fully permitted driver in the meantime - not easy for me, - and also require access to a vehicle which you ironically can't buy or rent because you're not fully permitted... and after all that mess I'm uncertain I'll even be living in this country in a year, so, um, yeah....)
I also didn't like this meeting half way business. Especially with her schedule, that would make a pull more difficult.
ch. III: Redemption
Déjà vu. Like our first SMS convo months before, there was now deep ambiguity as to whether we had a meeting today.
I decided to take a chance and just wind up downtown and try to get her out then and there. Going downtown just for an unconfirmed meet would've been pretty bad for my frame, but I had a solution. With the good weather, I'd been wanting to try street game, but my suburb is too spread out for it to be efficient compared with malls. By contrast, downtown has retail-dense streets with tons of foot traffic. This was a good excuse to finally hit them.
I didn't even answer. I just prepped, took off, and texted her once down there:
Alas, I got downtown late enough that I didn't get much time to just wander or maximize my time in the best areas.
I'd placed myself a fair ways from her midtown neighbourhood, partly to not seem intentional but also because there'd be more foot traffic in the downtown core. I was hoping to know quickly whether it was on with her or not, so I could either just stay down there or travel up to her.
But texting dragged on enough that I had to start walking towards midtown to shorten the trip if she later agreed, especially given underground closures.
Incidentally, this meant I could actually walk to the date spot, mainly due to planning ahead.
The scenery was nice but, being a bona fide melanin addict, the girls bored me stiff. In the whole 5.4mi/8.7km walk through parts of downtown and to the midtown date spot, I only saw like 4 black girls, two of whom were together. So, no approaches in spite of our temporarily beautiful weather. (Now you see why I want to move to Nairobi or Kampala? Lol.)
I got to the coffee shop with just enough time before 9pm to freshen up and get settled in. Then Tanika hit me with this:
Holy God are most girls this fickle and moody? I'm really not used to this, the few I've dealt with having either been tomboys or else just otherwise really chill and/or relatively unemotional. ("Girly" girls aren't my thing.)
ch. IV: Communion
Unfortunately I had to choose the date spot blindly. Most seating was only face to face. But there was a counter along the front window with tall chairs; I strongly prefer sitting beside the girl, so I sat there before she arrived.
Despite the cheeky subtitle, she in fact didn't grab herself anything, and I wasn't about to offer. That's the 2nd coffee date I've had where the girl didn't actually have coffee or anything else for that matter. Is this bad? LOL.
The girl's demeanour was different than I remembered or from texts. Now in person she was much lower energy, quiet, and reserved. Perhaps just tired from constant work. She did seem a bit frazzled, and mentioned her tiredness.
Recalling Seppuku's method, early on I asked Tanika how much time she had. She had to get going at 10pm and it was now 9:30pm! Ha, ha, ha. Well, ok, between this, her overall low energy, her practically living for her jobs which she'd likely have again in the morning, my having little excuse to get into her home and mine being way too far, and a hunch that she may not live alone, I decided that trying to pull tonight was likely futile. In part due to this, I didn't really get suggestive with touch; I did touch her, but more just to establish comfort for next time.
Didn't manage to sit as closely to her as I'd have liked. The default placement of the chairs put a good 18" between us. I'd have liked to close most of this, but putting my chair so close from that default would have, at least to me, felt gamey and trying too hard. I did pull my chair closer a couple times, but at the end we were still nearly 12" apart. I'd have much preferred a bench, where you can inch closer without making a production of it.
Her body language seemed a little closed off. Both elbows were on the counter with the forearms up. She accepted touch but she never touched back.
Verbally she was personable, though. I deep dove her, plus a little random chit-chat here and there. Conversation itself went fairly well. She probably did 70% or more of the talking.
She shared a fair bit, but there was one point where she said that something - I don't even remember what - was not something she shares on a first meeting. I may not have even asked her, but simply looked at her to continue when she had said something that led to it. When she didn't want to share that I just changed topics.
I shared a bit, but not nearly as much. Probably did a decent job remaining a little mysterious. I did show a few pics of my helping with and being in the Caribbean events. She's not very involved in that, but liked the pics.
One problem I had sitting beside her was something that also happened with Cherelle. She mostly just faced and looked forwards, while I was somewhat pointed along a diagonal half-way towards her, and was generally looking at her. I find it really strange and awkward to not look at someone I'm sitting and speaking with. My looking at her while she was not looking at me almost felt like I was gaming her. But I think not looking would have been strange and also would have curtailed any physical touching. How is this supposed to go?
There were a couple high points where she put her head forwards and low to the counter and turned to look at me with a smile. Maybe I should have used these points to escalate, but apart from being unsure of myself, I didn't really know how. Her hair was tied back, so brushing or playing with it was out. Maybe I should have stroked the side of her face.
I did touch at points but nothing really romantic or prolonged. Touched the closer arm or shoulder sometimes. Once, a hand on her back, and once grabbed near both elbows. (All clothed.) Touched her ear when noticing an earring. And her far wrist when noticing a bracelet. Briefly ran a finger along the pulled-tight hair when it came up in conversation.
I would've liked to escalate more but it somehow felt out of place. A little different than with Cherelle, where I had felt like I should be escalating but just didn't have the balls or know how. With Tanika, it felt more like escalating may have been out of place. Almost like passing up a perfectly good chance to open a girl vs. not opening a girl on her phone in a heated conversation.
There were one or two lulls in the conversation, and I totally forgot to try holding the tension and looking at her sexually instead of releasing it by starting a new thread. I find that happens a lot: I'll want to try something, but forget all about it in the moment. I still don't do enough interactions and tend to be too "in my head" to remember intended experiments a lot of the time.
I wouldn't call my body language terrible, but could certainly have been more sexy.
I found myself smiling a fair bit, but a kind of restrained, closed mouth smile. Would've been better shifted to one side. I also found myself laughing here and there; not in a "that's so funny" way, or in a nervous way, but more in a knowing way. These weren't consciously intentional.
Sought excuses to get into her home, but answers were unhelpful. No crazy items at home. Not much creative stuff; drawings, but she downplayed them. Forgot to try pets, but doubt it. I gave up here. I had rum on me, but proposing to go back to hers for a drink seemed a little forward when she likely wasn't fully into me yet, and it didn't even come to mind.
Fairly early on, I'd mentioned my creative works briefly. She showed some interest, so I suggested she should come out to see. She was a little ambivalent, expressing this being a possibility but at once also complaining that she doesn't usually travel for people any more, and went into a piece about how she used to do too much for people. (In retrospect, her frame here was that she'd be doing me a favour by visiting - a frame I should have broken.)
I expected her to cut things off around 10pm, and near that point I distracted myself a bit with my phone. We talked a bit more and she made some gentle suggestion of having to go soon.
She also said something about, if I had've picked another day, we could've chilled longer.
I wanted to sell her more on coming over to my place next time, so I brought back up the creative works and went into a bit more detail. She seemed a little more interested, and this time when I suggested she should come over some time to see, she was a little more positive and didn't bring up the travel issue.
With that out of the way and her seeming a little anxious to leave, I gestured towards leaving and remarked that I'd need to get going, too.
She proposed we walk to the corner together. I was ostensibly taking a bus from there and she going to pick up ground beef. It was well under a block, and we conversed idly.
We were coming from the south on the east side, and at the south side of the corner, she just continued towards the north side. I stopped, and when she saw this, she said something like, "I guess you're catching the bus over there," pointing to the southwest corner, and turned to face me. We said our parting greetings, I reached for her hand and we did the hand between fingers and thumb thing briefly, and then she left to the north.
I halfways wonder if I should've just went with her! But I'm not sure how that would've worked.
ch. V: Revelations
I find it interesting that I got her to meet in spite of her moody "not interested in meeting today" remark. This taught me something important - the ability to blast through her uncertainty and get her to do something, without even having to pester her, instead simply acting on the assumption that she'll comply.
There are two possible takes on what I did:
- It was dumb to push for a date I knew might be tough to end in a sex location, and I should've just bided my time until I could get her out on more favourable terms (as tricky as her lifestyle and moods make this); or
- I did the right thing by pushing forward anyway, so as to not allow her negative compliance to stack up (i.e., "the guy I keep declining/flaking on") or complacence with my current role (i.e., "the guy who is my text buddy"), and to show her that I make things happen.
ch. VI: The Second Coming
So, now what?
The girl typically works 7 days/wk. The odd day she might be off very early, but it seems she typically works late enough that she may not be too keen on two hour-long bus rides to visit me.
I could wait until she has a day off or finishes early afternoon. This may make it more likely to get her to come out, but I don't know when such a chance will come, which might violate "move fast". Worse, my having to repeatedly ask her schedules might risk my becoming "that guy I'm always putting off", cementing negative compliance or at least making me seem needy.
Another option is to try to get to her place on a day she gets off at a reasonable time. Such days are more plentiful, so that minimizes the negative compliance stacking risk.
I could ask her if she has a TV. She probably does, and if so, I can put some stuff on a laptop and wire it up to her TV.
That does leave some questions:
- Do I just ask her for the TV by text and suggest meeting directly at her home? Or try to meet again close to her home and then bring it up during the date? On one hand, inviting myself to her home after a 40 min. meet that didn't do any real escalating could be premature, but on the other hand, part of me thinks she's actually more liable to go for that than another idle coffee date. Tough call for me without a lot of data points.
- Do I seduce her before or after fiddling with her TV? (That sentence in isolation is hilarious!) I strongly suspect "before", but I don't want it to look like I was making up the whole thing just to get in her panties. (Is that even bad? lol) I guess I could pull out the machine and put it on her table, but then stop and chill and talk to her and try to escalate unless she gets uptight to connect it, lol. (Wow, typing this has helped a lot!)
OMG you're still reading? Thank you!
