Returning Balance

[Bboy100]

Hey guys,

So I fairly recently got out of a four month relationship. I won't go into the details, as its extremely long and fairly personal, I do not have a desire to type it all out. But the basic gist of it is thus: She had some issues we couldn't resolve, I got hurt. This was an outcome I was very aware could happen, and it did. So it's fine.

Here's what I did not expect...I allowed her to walk all over me. I convinced myself that I was being compassionate and empathetic. And while this is true, the problem is that in doing so, I prioritized trying to understand her unacceptable behavior over meeting my own needs. And if I'm being brutally honest with myself, reality is that I also couldn't stand the thought of letting go. So I dragged it out and caused myself more pain than necessary. Even after we had already broken up.

In the process, I've learned a few things I believe to be true about myself and about dating:
1. I am still terrible at dealing with conflict. I'm not very good at setting boundaries (because I have trouble enforcing them), and I have difficulties standing up for myself in a lot of situations. This is not universally true. There are a lot of situations in which I have no problems with conflict. But it is very true within the context of dating a women I have feelings for. In terms of my "game", this is my Achilles heel.

2. I had a very idealistic modal for how relationships work. I thought that if two good, intelligent and committed people get together, they can overcome any obstacle (except for maybe one or both partners moving away). This is not always the case.

3. I cannot...cannot handle break ups. Still. This is my #1 weakness as far as dating is concerned. Even though I have an abundance of casual hookups available to me, almost whenever I please (although tbh, I have almost no desire for them anymore. Banging random sloots feels kinda stale and pointless at this point), I still have some deep rooted issues around separation. More women or abundance will not help. This will require a lot of thought, introspection, meditation and therapy to resolve. Until then, I find myself at a disadvantage when it comes to dating. Because my inability to handle break ups without becoming a crazy person for a couple weeks/months is by en large what causes me to allow myself to be walked all over in the first place (i.e. if she does something I don't like...what do I do? I feel like I can't break up with her because I can't handle that. So I'm trapped).

4. I'm extremely attracted to women who are in some way damaged or deeply hurt. I take great satisfaction in helping them heal, especially if I see they've already made some progress on their own (note: this is not the same as being a "white knight" as helping the damsel in distress is not my tactic for getting the girl in the first place. It's once I'm already dating her that this comes into play). Regardless, this is unhealthy because I inevitably find myself in relationships with women who although very attractive & desirable in a lot of ways, do not have the emotional awareness and capacity to sustain a long-term relationship

5. Ultimetly, I feel like I had disowned some of the darker sides of dating in favor of an idealistic modal. But reality is, that it's human nature to be both good and bad. The two balance each other out. The dating realm is no exception. I've also disowned parts of my maculinity because I am afraid of and have disdain for its darker sides (e.g. aggression, physical dominance, greed, selfishness). As of now, I continue to work to reintegrate them into my life.

 

[trashKENNUT]

Bboy100,

Number 4 though................. Some of us have this progressive trait thing. Not necessarily a whiteknight thing. I like seeing people be better, and i am sure you are too.

I think we need to let go that they owe us something, either by making peace or actually fulfilling it with other women as an always backup, which sounds non-pc but i dont care.

Zac

 

[Lucky]

I remember someone on this site did an article about givers and receiver or something... Either way might be a good read for you. Either way BBboy my friend don't have any regrets over this even if you did get walked over. As Hector said in one of his articles...
"We all trip over our dick someday"
It's probably slightly reworded but either way we all fuck up some point in our life it's how we adapt and learn.
But a question about 4
Do you know why you go after the chicks that are damaged?
Is the Byronic qualities that draw you in? Or maybe the idea of helping someone in need?

 

[Sandman]

Bboy100,

I remember you posted the situation with this girl (I'm assuming it's the same girl?), I don't wanna say I told you so but you denied that it was a white knight situation and that the balance of investment was in her favour. Anyhow, it's a great progress that you realised that it's unhealthy. It's the the first step to overcome that weakness and be the man you want to be and the lead the life you want to lead.

I feel like our views on seduction and dating seems cynical to you. But it's really not. It's just reality.

Hopefully you'll find a healthy girl who you love and who's in life with you more soon

 

[Seppuku]

Hey BBoy,

I always appreciate to read your self assessments, they are always very thoughtful and honest. Is this the girl you talked about in your posts in December?

Anyhow I want to share a few thoughts.

1. From my own experience (15 years in relationship with ex-wife), but also from what I observed around me over time, I can tell that there are certain aspects of the partner that you *will never be able to change*, no matter time and effort. Some behaviors can be altered superficially, but some of the most deeply rooted aspects of personality will never change. I see so many couples wasting energy and efforts in this and failing eventually. Over time, what they end up doing is *adapting* to the other person - if they can, or otherwise break up. It is much more productive to find someone to which you know you can easily adapt, rather than someone with a couple of *difficult points* requiring fixing, then spend so much energy in trying to fix these points.

2. That's also why it is better not to jump into a relationship and try to get a good sense of the other person first. I'm not saying that's what you did but just a general thought.

3. The rule of Investment. This is one where I am still work in progress myself. The rule still applies post-seduction, and for the lifetime of the relationship. It is extremely important that investment remains balanced. In fact, ideally, it is better if she is invested slightly more than you are. Remember that most of the time it's the girl initiating breakup - she usually gets bored first. This needs to be compensated by making sure she continually invests - and if possible slightly more than yourself. Very difficult balance to achieve! You absolutely need to keep your head cool to assess the balance in investment. You need to maintain a healthy dose of "push-pull" dynamics.

4. Another difficult one: you must affirm your red lines, not to be crossed, and communicate it. And if these red lines are regularly crossed, you must be willing to walk. In any case, if you are afraid of losing the girl, she will know it, and will walk over you. In this sense, the girls are very much like kids. They need to know there are limits, and consequences if limits are breached. As a man, you're here to provide her with the structure. She absolutely needs to know that.

For the anecdote, my own problem here is that, although I do have red lines, I fail to communicate them efficiently enough before the fact. I end up reacting to the breaching - which is the situation you want to avoid in the first place. I'm work in progress, too!

No need to emphasize on the "damaged good", your point 4. I hope you can find a way to get more emotionally healthy girls, because girls with low self esteem are very difficult, and will cause you a lot of worries.

Anyway cheers to you, hoping you will quickly bounce back!

Seppuku

 

[Fuck This]

Bboy, I can empathize with what you wrote here. In fact I had a 20 year marriage before I finally stood up against what I didn't like. I think I had to just get mad enough that I didn't CARE anymore....

After that, I actually wrote down the characteristics of the woman I would consider a relationship with as well as No-Go (Red Flag) characteristics. Appearance, Behavior, habits, personality, physical health, mannerisms, sex attitudes, career, children, relatives, etc. I wrote it ALL out. When those subjects came up in conversation, I was very clear in a kind way that those were the qualities I was looking for. Not all in one conversation of course, but over the course of a few months. In fact it was a handy way to give a genuine compliment.

With those things in mind it was pretty easy to let the casual ones kinda slide off. And the ONE just kept re affirming she is worth the relationship. It is also nice to be able to recognize signals that there are other women out there who are interested in you...You have options if this doesn't work out... I understand your craving for a deeper relationship, and to meet someone's NEED. Been there man...

 

[Bboy100]

Hey everyone,

Sorry for the long reply time! I don't check the boards very often anymore unless I get an email notification, and I hadn't received any for this thread for whatever reason.

I appreciate the encouragement and thoughtful responses from each of you.

In light of some of the responses, I guess I should probably add some more detail here:

Actually, the relationship didn't end because of an inbalance of investment, nor is it because she got bored etc. I wasn't really thinking about it at the time, but as I reflect on it, we were fairly even in terms of investment. In fact, in terms of external actions, I think that in some ways, she was more invested than me (e.g. every time we hung out, she would drive 30-60 mins to get to my place, I didn't go anywhere, more often than not, she volunteered to pay for tickets or any activities we went out to do etc.).

The reason our relationship ended was because of something completely unrelated. Basically, she has a really bad relationship with both sex and intimacy (again...don't really want to explain the specifics of why because that would require writing like 1500 characters to explain it all). She had been celibate for 1.5 years prior to meeting me. After we dated for a while, she told me she actually hates sex. It physically hurts her (due to psychological reasons. Lube doesn't help. This is very common amongst rape victims), and she hates herself every time she does it. She told me this after like, 4 months of dating and having sex every time we hung out. I was actually the one to say that this is not okay and that something needs to change. At first, she insisted that it was fine and that it's been this way for her her whole life. And it's no big deal. But a few weeks later, after talking to her therapist about it and going on a really long run (and thinking about it while she has a runner's high, which is basically the same as mindfulness), she realized that actually, she needed to go back to being celibate. Emotionally, she has made a lot of progress in every domain except for her relationship with sex. She's decided she finally wants to fix that. And she thinks the way she would go about doing that is by refraining from sex until its with someone she loves. She basically gave me an ultimatum: If we're to continue dating, we're not going to have sex until she falls in love with me (which could be never, given her issues with intimacy). So needless to say, I said no to that. She completely expected this response, and totally understood. And I respected her decision to want to address this part of her life (even though I actually don't think waiting till she falls in love with someone is the solution, she's at least trying something. So I can still respect that). Also, I knew that her issues were likely to eventually catch up to us and spell doom for our relationship. So I can't be too upset with her since I knew this from the outset. We ended on very good terms.

When I say I allowed myself to get "walked all over", it actually happend post-break up. I tried to remain friends with her. She also wanted this. I convinced myself this was because I genuinely valued her friendship. And I did. But truth be told, it was still also because I couldn't let go. So we actually went out to celebrate my birthday as friends. Things went well. At that time, she told me she's having a friend from high school who she vaguely knows coming to visit in a few days. I assumed this friend was a female. I found out via a text she sent me later that week that actually, this was a dude.

Keep in mind that to her, this is not at all sexual (at least not consciously). She's normally a super smart girl, but for some reason, I've noticed that she's completely socially oblivious to when guys want to have sex with her/when she's signaling to guys that she wants to have sex. This all matters because she has a hard time saying no to sex. As in...prior to meeting me, she would literally have had sex with ANYONE. Even if she's not at all attracted to them. She has zero boundaries around sex (courtesy of all of the various traumas she's been through). This is mainly because her self-esteem is so low, she basically thinks she deserves it. It's basically a form of self-punishment. So you can probably see why it's a problem that she's having a dude over at her apartment for multiple days. Even though it was clear to me that she sees him as just a friend, that doesn't matter. Because she still probably won't be able to say no to sex with him. She even said it herself...she's had sex with a guy she considered to be "just a friend" before. And not in the "low-key guy I like to fuck" kind of friend. I mean "I genuinely see him as just a friend, but I can't say no to sex anyways because I have issues around sex".

Normally, this would be none of my business, as we had already broken up. But given that we broke up specifically because she doesn't wanna have sex with anyone till she falls in love with them, it just felt kinda like she was shitting all over what was our relationship by even putting herself in that position. Granted, I don't know if she actually had sex with him or not. It's very possible that she didn't. Because by the end of our relationship, she did say that she "no longer feels like she needs to be having sex with someone all the time". Whereas prior to her period of celibacy, she did. So perhaps she can practice more restraint now. ...But it's just as likely that she did have sex with him. And even if she didn't, it's still fucked up that she would even orchestrate a scenario like that in the first place lol.

Instead of calling her out on this as soon a I found out about it, I waited till I see her in person. Because I knew she would not respond well over text. But that never happened. Instead, she started avoiding me and became super disrespectful over text. I STILL said nothing to her, in hopes that I would see her in person, then we would talk about it. So this is what I meant by "getting walked all over". I didn't say anything, even when I should have. In part because I was afraid of her response. In part because I knew it wouldn't yield a positive result if done over text. What I didn't realize is that by not saying anything, and instead waiting till I see her in person, I was actually violating my personal integrity, which is super psychologically unhealthy for me.

Eventually, after about a week of this, I stopped replying to her texts and cut her off. But I never actually told her I'm upset with her. In fact, she probably didn't even know that I was mad at her until I quit replying to her texts and deleted her off social media. We haven't spoken since.


As for why I'm attracted to this type of girl in the first place...well I've actually made some progress on this. And I think I know why.

1. I genuinely do like helping people and seeing them grow and improve. So if I feel like I can help a girl be better, it makes me feel better.

2. And this one is a far more influential reason...I have a lot of deep rooted shit with my family which directly relates to the type of women I pick. This stuff has been unconscious until very recently. I expect that I will work this out fairly soon. And even if I don't, just being consciously aware will help me choose more emotionally healthy girls in the first place.