RR: 3wk Autopsy

[Tkr]

Hey everybody,
I tried to make a long-term relationship work with the Colombiana from viewtopic.php?f=5&t=8439
Thing's ended quite abruptly so I wanted to go over it and see if I can learn anything after fleshing it out.
She basically proclaimed me she loved me and wanted to marry me, then 2 days later told me through text that it'd be best she not see me anymore, goodbye

Girl is very independent, an ex-pat from Colombia who lived in England and now in Argentina, studying the arts and coordinating for a national sports organization. She has no family here, and claims to not have had a lover for a few years, and was very desperate for a man's security and intimacy when I met her. She's also an alcoholic and dope addict. I wanted to make it work with her because I'm only here for 3 months anyway, the sex was fantastic, she's physically my type, beautiful, we had great conversation, and being a little older she was able to teach me things other girls can't.

We started off real casual, and I knew that if I kept showing her a good time and giving her some great dick she would fall in love, and she did. For such a busy anxious women she devoted most of her free time to me, and we started seeing each other 3x a week. The 2nd time sex didn't happen, but the 3rd I really put it down and it became a staple of our meetings. We also did other things as the apartment building/neighborhood is fantastic, but never really left the house. Our protocol was to get high, have some drinks, and hang out. Consequentially, we were high 90% of the time. I really like the "Secret Lover" setup, it's both exciting and genuine.

2 weeks in she dropped her hints that she's very loyal, she loves me, wants to cook for us, and begged me to respect how much time she's setting aside for me. She was upset that I didn't call her every day, but said it didn't matter because when we did see each other it was amazing. I knew she was hooked the minute after our first time in bed, but at this point she lays all her feelings out. The only thing I promised her was that I'd stay till January and that my only interest is in making sure we're both happy during our time together.

She always seemed to be very anxious about whether or not I loved her and whether it's a good idea getting involved with me knowing that I have to leave in a few months. I tend to alternate between an interested enthusiastic face and a stone cold aloof face so maybe some of that is my fault, though I don't think I should bother to eliminate her fears. When she was anxious, she was aggressively warm, like making out with me in the kitchen corner while I'm eating, type Streetcar Named Desire with Brando if anybody remembers that scene. It was quite a powerful feeling, and to me highlights the difference between being her strong independent alpha and being her feel-good provider.

The flipside would be that some days the marijuana would psychologically cripple me and she would dominate the interaction and force me to kiss up to her and listen to her songs and do what she wants. I was fine with that as I was content, but it made me feel less of a man and I think undermined our relationship. When she's in control, I get cagey, erratic, and uninterested; but when I'm in control, she loves me like I'm her god.

The last day I saw her was one of those bad days, and I made fun of her for being a "Scavenger". It was one of those call-back humors that went totally wrong, and she whimpered off feeling terrible. I knew something was off and asked her whats wrong, she says "Nothing", so I immediately tell her "That's bullshit" and sit down to talk. She tells me she feels very embarrassed, and that she crosses boundaries without thinking about it. I've never let shame affect me so deeply so I didn't know how to respond other than clarify what the boundaries are. She then gets her things and leaves, texting me the next day to call it off.

Takeaways:

I've learned a lot from this, but the mystery is in why her being embarrassed led to her walking out on me? I know that life stress was a factor and she clearly has her own issues to begin with, but how much was my fault? Did I handle the drama poorly?

Perhaps my feeling less of a man because of not being in control has to do with her crossing boundaries, and as a traditional feminine woman she felt very shameful and worthless because of it. I think that's what happened. Either that or my behavior corroded her respect and attraction for me and she no longer wanted to spend her precious time with me as the relationship has an expiration date anyhow.

What I learned:
Showing interest then being physically aloof can really inspire girls to chase your validation
If a girl respects you, she will seriously consider everything you say even if you're just trying to be silly and have a laugh
I can be very critical of things, and even though I don't do it seriously, other people can be really put down by it. Ego depletion??
I still tend to alternate between alpha behavior and beta behavior, and not only can I tell on my own but the girl always reflects it through her actions
I should never take a girl for granted, that's when I relinquish my frame and let my guard down, and it never works ^^
I get used to her looks and don't realize how pretty she is until I go outside the next day and see all the other women
Maybe I could get away with that with an average girl, but a beautiful woman requires me to be at the top of my game all the time
Even beautiful women are insecure and crave validation. The only difference is that they know they're pretty and have more options
There is nothing sexier to me than a girl that has legs and knows how to use them, in and out of bed.
Intellectual conversations are stimulating but they're flawed because everything girls say is bullshit
Always pick apart what a girl says about her personality and assume she's a whore without judging her
Using the 4 types of girls quadrant really isn't that easy for me, especially when a girl might be crazy

There's a lot more but I'm burned out. There's a chance she may crawl back to me this weekend, but I'm not expecting it. I'm just glad to have had her in my life for a few weeks.

Any thoughts on this? I'm curious to figure out what she was thinking that last day that she crashed hard and how I can keep myself to more standard behavior and define relationships better. I believe there's a time for some serious post-coital chat and I wasn't really on the ball this time. I don't really know when to be emotionally intimate, and I think I could have made this work if I was more clear and laid off the attachment for a bit more, even as she was begging for it.

- TR

 

[ray_zorse]

Sometimes when they are under pressure, out of their comfort zone, confused or anxious, they will latch onto some minor thing and make it a big thing (the callback humour here). This is basically explainable by Chase's theory that they are emotional creatures that express the emotion they are feeling at any given time, the words or reasoning is just icing on the cake, added/constructed to justify the emotion they're expressing. So don't worry about the callback humour (but I've experienced a similar thing and I know how bad it feels).

Why was she feeling this way, well as a guy who's had at least one 3yr LTR where we were smoking weed every day I'd point to that as a big issue, it seems to affect different people differently but my experience was it made me feel totally paranoid and socially anxious, like sitting on the couch with her in the evening after smoking, which should have been a relaxing, cosy time, would feel more like being with a stranger, even though she was my GF I would feel hesitant to introduce touch, would second guess everything (what to say... what is she feeling... etc) and you mention being disabled by the weed so I think maybe you can relate. In her case maybe she covered it well but was paranoid and anxious in your company, you mention her being kinda anxious even to begin with?

You're probably better off without this kind of influence in your life, hot as she may be. When you go out to PU do you drink lots of alcohol or do you maybe just have one beer and stick to water? Similarly weed? Cos what works best for PU probably works well for relationship management, also your gym program will go better if you aren't smoking. It does not really matter if she is drunk or stoned cos it affects people differently and will usually make your task easier (maybe not in this case?), but it should be her decision and not something she does because she's with you. That way you aren't responsible and you know you gave it your best shot, if she prioritorized alcohol or pot above other areas then that's her lookout.

Hope that helps. It sounds like a chilled, fun time though. Props

cheers, Ray

 

[Franco]

Tkr,

I think ray has some good points about the weed -- I don't like to introduce any form of "habitual" substances into any of my relationships. The main issue is with what ray described: you aren't "you" when you're high.

Your ability to control your actions and convey the emotions and convictions that you want to convey become inhibited by smoking, so it can lead to some awkward or ill-induced situations that don't benefit you in any way. If it's something you need for medical reasons, then at least there's a reason for it. Other than that, you might want to reconsider whether or not it's something worth keeping in your life.

As far as this girl specifically, it sounds like you've mostly diagnosed your own issue here. She definitely sounds very traditional, and although you were playing things technically correctly (only seeing her on a casual basis, giving her great sex and conversation, etc.), it sounds like you played the casual card a little too hard by not alleviating her insecurities. Remember, if it's a girl you want to keep around for awhile, the idea isn't to drive her crazy by not giving her ANY answers, but instead to give her answers that are open-ended but very direct and very honest. She needs to feel some comfort in the fact that you at least care about her, even if the answers don't give her exactly what she'd hope for at that point in time. If she feels like there could be a day where you simply just stop talking to her and leave, then she's going to drive herself emotionally crazy and eventually cut herself off from you to protect her emotions, ego, and reputation. It sounds to me like that might have been what happened here.

The idea is that you want to be the "bad boy with a heart of gold," but if she even slightly senses that you're just "the bad boy," then she's going to be extremely wary of anything long-term with you.

- Franco

 

[Tkr]

Ray,
Yes, great point on the weed. I keep telling myself I can handle it but it's just not a good idea. Long-term It kills my other positive habits and drains me as well as my wallet. Short-term it seems to lower my IQ and makes me prone to anxiety, whereas when I'm sober and fresh the clarity feels like another drug altogether. Sex definitely feels better high and the loss of boundaries can be really exciting, but I'm starting to think it's really not worth the tradeoff. I think Franco hit the bullseye.

In nightlife venues, a hit or 2 sets me in a jovial mood, but getting baked can cripple me with anxiety or just overall make me feel weird or off - So I don't smoke. Anymore than 2 drinks makes me stupid too, so that's another balance to work on.

I'm going to cut off marijuana for a while, it's a tasty poison for a relationship. Things went well while they did but when they're not anymore you're still addicted and it brings you down.

Franco,

played the casual card a little too hard by not alleviating her insecurities.

I find it very difficult to tell a girl I love her without feeling like a lying piece of shit. I know GC argues that the one in love is the one not in control, and I certainly agree. I weaseled myself out pretty well by the criteria you gave, but further down the line it's hard to maintain. Occasionally I really did love her and showed it, but most the time it feels like something I have to fake. Perhaps worth mentioning that she was sexually abused/raped once and has trust issues with men in general. The corollary somebody once mentioned about the "sweeter the girl, the more likely she's been in a gangbang" does have a kernel of truth in it.

If she feels like there could be a day where you simply just stop talking to her and leave, then she's going to drive herself emotionally crazy and eventually cut herself off

With these girls that communicating my love and affection through sex isn't enough, how exactly do I do it?
I understood your post, but is the goal to completely eliminate anxiety? I don't even think that's possible.

Another possible source of anxiety between us was height. She had a good 4 inches on me, and though I think I handled it like a boss and she certainly loved me, some people get anxious that the other can't possibly reciprocate their feelings because of the negative or limiting beliefs they were raised on, in this case concerning height. She's a tricky read because on the surface she's an ex-catwalk model and national volleyball player, so she claims to love her height, but just the fact that I had to reassure her a few times that I liked that about her and the end-result diagnosis raises some doubts on whether I could have done more to manage her fears and emotions. I tend to drive girls crazy, so I'm trying to get to the bottom of this so my future relationships won't be so unstable.

Thanks guys,
- TR

 

[Franco]

Tkr,

With these girls that communicating my love and affection through sex isn't enough, how exactly do I do it?

Every time she causes drama or expresses some kind of concern, you have to address it directly. Fighting back with her just creates more tension (which can lead to some very passionate moments that are both good and bad, but can also drive her away if she feels neglected). And completely ignoring it will also cause her to believe you don't care about her either. So addressing things directly usually helps here.

There's some great articles on this website that contain information about all of this, and they tend to get lost in all of the actual pick-up material here. The relationship material on this website is absolutely amazing. I would check out these articles:

• Emotional Association
• Women and Drama
• Handling Women's Accusations

There's plenty more material covering these topics. I would use the Advanced Search feature on the main website to filter out "Relationship" articles and start digging through them. Ultimately, you have to have at least an average level of empathy to keep a woman around. She needs to feel like you care about the things she's worried about.

I understood your post, but is the goal to completely eliminate anxiety? I don't even think that's possible.

Nope. I'd say the best way to think about it is that you always want your girl to be steadily hovering at 1% anxiety. By this I mean, she should feel pretty damn sure that you care about her, but that last "1%" keeps her on edge enough that she never feels like she completely has control over you. You want her to feel very comfortable every time she spends time with you, but then you still want her to be slightly worried what you're doing when you're not with her. If you can find the right balance, she'll occasionally check in on you to make sure you're still thinking about her, but she won't be showing signs of insecurity when you spend time with her. When she does show signs of insecurity, it usually shows itself in some form of drama, and that's where you need to pull her aside and get to the bottom of it, address it, and make her feel better.

- Franco