FR running at the park

[PinotNoir]

This is my first running pickup!

Every week, I run at a few parks -- training for speed and 5ks. I usually see a good bit of attractive ladies, but most fall into 3 buckets:

1. too old,
2. new moms with kids,
3. and too young (high schoolers usually doing homework in the grass or sitting at benches).

There is a strange phenomenon though. Girls in groups are usually married (I look for wedding band). Girls by themselves are usually single. Obviously, you do not want to be seen as some creepy guy in the park (and potential rapist), but the only girls to approach are by themselves!

Anyway, I was doing the first mile with my buddy. She was coming the opposite way (so face-to-face). It was kind of wooded; I was with my buddy; and I had just started the run. Therefore, I only said "hi", smiled, and held eye contact. This has burned me before because when I had finished in the past they had already left.

Today, when I was finishing the last mile (#3), fate was on my side. I saw her still walking around the first mile loop. I walked for a bit too cool down. In my head, I was like, "Man, this isn't going to work. I'm dripping with sweat, but fuck it."

I jogged over to her. It didn't go so smoothly, but whatever. I approach from her left side and wait until I get side-by-side.

"Hi, excuse me. I never do this, but are you single?"
She makes a little shocked face.
"No one has ever done this before! Well, yes, I am single."
"Great, how about we go on a date?"
"Sure, I am A." (I should have introduced myself first haha)
She holds out her hand.
"Sorry, I am way too sweaty. I don't want to get sweat on your hand haha. I am Pinot. Do you have your phone on you? Else, I'll just memorize your number."
"Yeah, sure, I have my phone right here."
I mess up giving my phone #. Man, exhaustion really kills the brain. I then give her the correct number.
"I promise I never do this. I'm just a busy guy, so if I see a pretty lady, I don't want the opportunity to pass." (This was really bad and stupid; I don't know why I said this. I guess I was trying to make her feel at ease with having my number.) "Well, it was a pleasure to meet you A. Have a good day."
"Have a good day too!"

When I got back to my car, I saw that she had called. I messed up a bit here too. When I got back to work, I then called her. She didn't answer. Then I just left a text message, "Hey A, how is the walk? any geese chase you? I saw that you called, so I called in case you can't get texts. nice to meet ya today, and nice shades. -Pinot"

Not smooth and a bit of "chasing" at the end. I hope I can still get the date out of it; we'll see. At least, I got the number.

Next time, I should just ask the girl at the first mile haha. On the last mile, I'm just dead and sweaty. The call and then text was also bad.

 

[Marty]

Hey Pinot Noir (cool screen name by the way, though I prefer Sauvignon Blanc myself!):

Nice report. I used to quite enjoy approaching when running, actually. It's the fresh-air lover's equivalent of approaching at the gym, I suppose!

I just checked my records and I have opened 10 girls while running. Of those I got 5 numbers, which is actually rather better than my overall average rate, and even one date! See this journal entry. I haven't done any recently though, for the same reason as you state: I'm not feeling at my best in terms of presentation... the last was in late September.

But I seem to see the nicest girls when I run, and it's such a pity to let them slip by. Your FR has inspired me to try some more! Thanks!

I have a question for you. Why do you include this phrase: "I never do this"? What is the rationale behind it?

-Marty

 

[ocantu1987]

Good job man! What you did is made yourself stronger. I myself approached a girl like this except I told her she was cute and I wanted to meet her, I was nervous, but a few days later I approached 3 groups of girls like nothing haha. I guarantee you, on your next approach you will not be as nervous.

 

[PinotNoir]

Thanks guys!

@Marty, I'll have to try some Sauvignon Blanc this weekend, but I usually don't drink whites

I actually like running better than the gym in theory. I don't see the same people all the time. I haven't actually approached at the gym yet, but after reading the gym article (by Chase?), it worries me. I like my gym and the people there; I don't want to be banned haha.

That is really good stats for running. You have a lot of good journal entries too; I'll have to read more of them when I get free time. Yeah, it was one of my hardest approaches because I was literally drenched in sweat, but after today, I think I won't worry about that anymore.

"I never do this."
I started saying this after reading FRs by AsianPersuasion actually. Some guys had replied on his FRs saying that you don't want the girl to think you're a player or do this all of the time. You want the girl to feel special, like it is serendipity and a once-in-a-lifetime-chance-encounter. However, ultimately, I think this was an outcome of being nervous, and saying it directly/bluntly is probably not good. This can either make the experience good and rare, or it can backfire and make me look like a guy without abundance/courage and slot me into boyfriend land (which, I do want a girlfriend, but if you've read GC, you know that this is bad even if you are wanting a girlfriend). I haven't said it a lot so directly, so I will see what results I get.

I just realized that I jogged up to see her. I literally chased her! What am I thinking? Oh well. Maybe next time I should run past her, and then wait for her to catch up to me, and say, "Are you chasing me?"

Go talk to those women while you run!

 

[ocantu1987]

BTW pinotNoir, I asked a random hot girl if she was single yesterday too haha she smiled and said "no" and quickly walked away, that was actually fun haha

 

[PinotNoir]

If you haven't, read this. This article is why I asked it:

https://www.girlschase.com/content/are-you-single-why-always-ask-girls

To be honest, I prefer Chase's articles (and still do), but some people on the forum swear by Ricardus.

In my opinion, this is one of his best articles. The advice is so simple and works. I always use it when I can't think of anything to say. Really, too many guys get stuck trying to think of something to say, so a fall-back phrase like this is great.

As far as getting the "no," I've gotten a ton, so don't worry haha. Good job on asking it.

 

[Marty]

PinotNoir:

Really, too many guys get stuck trying to think of something to say, so a fall-back phrase like this is great.

Agree. Recently I have been using "Have you got a second?" This is handy when I'm unprepared and would probably miss the opening unless I acted straight away; once you've got her attention, you're in the water and have no choice but to start swimming—which is exactly what you want!

To be honest, I prefer Chase's articles (and still do), but some people on the forum swear by Ricardus.

Agree with both these sentiments... Chase is inimitable but Ricardus has a killer explanatory style and his character really comes across in his writing. I hope he still does phone coaching: when I get a bit more practical experience logged, I'd like to speak with him!

Some guys had replied on his FRs saying that you don't want the girl to think you're a player or do this all of the time. You want the girl to feel special, like it is serendipity and a once-in-a-lifetime-chance-encounter.

This is a crucial point, in my view.

Chase wrote an excellent article called Make a Girl Feel Special: Seduction's Silver Bullet. I am coming to realize that there is a peculiar tension between this need to make a girl feel special, and the need to appear effortless. For example, in order not to come across as chasing, it is better to open a girl as soon as you see an approach invitation, such as lingering eye contact, rather than follow her another hundred feet and then open. The irony is that this doesn't give you time to appraise her properly and determine whether she is worthy of "special" treatment... and if she were rational, she'd recognize this and give you enough time to see that she really is special. However, in reality such behavior would either cause her to auto-reject at your lack of swift action, or would devalue you in her eyes as being too eager in pursuit!

In a bookstore or grocery store, you probably have at most thirty seconds' worth of "hovering" at the shelves before you need to take action or exit; passing a girl in the street, that time is cut to five seconds or less. There is no way you can judge whether a girl is "special" in that interval, so my conclusion is that you need to be a pretty good actor in making her feel that way; the tension between the opposing positions is not resolved, but rather has to be balanced using your judgment and skill.

Anyway, Pinot, I'm certainly not enough of an actor to be able to say "I never do this" and make it come across as anything other than totally disingenuous! ) I think I'll need to find another method to address this quandary...

 

[PinotNoir]

"Have you got a second?" .... once you've got her attention, you're in the water and have no choice but to start swimming—which is exactly what you want!

I'll have to try this out! Even though I approach (almost) all of the time when I see a girl that I'm attracted to, I still miss a few from hesitation.

Chase wrote an excellent article called Make a Girl Feel Special: Seduction's Silver Bullet.

Surprisingly, I haven't read this article. Thanks. I'll read it tonight.

...better to open a girl as soon as you see an approach invitation, such as lingering eye contact, rather than follow her another hundred feet and then open. The irony is that this doesn't give you time to appraise her properly and determine whether she is worthy of "special" treatment... and if she were rational, she'd recognize this and give you enough time to see that she really is special. However, in reality such behavior would either cause her to auto-reject at your lack of swift action, or would devalue you in her eyes as being too eager in pursuit!

This is so true for day game and something I realized early on. Right now, I'm into asians, so I almost have a reflex where I instantly talk to a girl if she's asian and slim. This has made it more subconscious. It's almost like you should just pick 2 shallow traits and immediately talk to a woman if she has both (e.g., slim & brunette).

However, at night in bars, you can make eye contact and then approach, and this has been fine for me, but it's just a different atmosphere, more chill. I almost never go to clubs, so I don't know about there. It can be pretty fast paced (emotional roller coaster), so I expect there is a time limit as well.

In a bookstore or grocery store, you probably have at most thirty seconds' worth of "hovering" at the shelves before you need to take action or exit; passing a girl in the street, that time is cut to five seconds or less. There is no way you can judge whether a girl is "special" in that interval...

The seconds is dead on. I had never been able to put that into words before. I think you need to write a day game guide haha.


Update
As an update to this FR, she hasn't texted or called back. It's been almost 2 days. I know it was her # because she left a voicemail. She could just be busy, but man, she acted very anxious to date me.

I blame this on (1) not building a connection and (2) not being smooth enough. I rushed it.

Anyway, no big deal. I'll be approaching some more girls Friday as I always do when I'm out with my friend. I think after a few days I'll try and call her again (or should I text?). If she doesn't answer, then I'll write it off.

 

[Supah]

Update
As an update to this FR, she hasn't texted or called back. It's been almost 2 days. I know it was her # because she left a voicemail. She could just be busy, but man, she acted very anxious to date me.

I blame this on (1) not building a connection and (2) not being smooth enough. I rushed it.

Anyway, no big deal. I'll be approaching some more girls Friday as I always do when I'm out with my friend. I think after a few days I'll try and call her again (or should I text?). If she doesn't answer, then I'll write it off.

I would personally just text her but don't wait to much longer, 2 days max. Make it a casual text and don't put to much pressure on her. There's some good stuff about texting on this forum so check that out.

Why she is acting anxious to date you now is because she is getting doubts, starts thinking, etc. I guess your first approach was not bad, except for some main mistakes like apologizing for approaching which you should never do (this is not the same as saying 'i never do this' which i do approve).
But i think if you arranged a date the same evening that you met her you might have gotten a better chance. ( in this situation, where you barely got to know each other)

Cheers, Supah

 

[PinotNoir]

But i think if you arranged a date the same evening that you met her you might have gotten a better chance. ( in this situation, where you barely got to know each other)

Yep, I completely agree. Thanks. Next time, I will (1) create some rapport with questions and (2) see what her schedule is like and try and get the date that day!


Update #2

Guys, since this thread has gotten more activity than I expected, I'm going to ask for your advice. I was just going to keep progressing like I usually do, but I think this will be good for learning the problems in my current process with women.

I finally got a text response today (this is the exact word-for-word message but with my name replaced):

Pinot...sorry for such a late response but it was kind of weird meeting somebody at the park...

Um, I'm thinking this is not good haha. I don't want her feeling weird. But, this may also be good, as it shows inexperience possibly?

I've never had a girl say "weird" after getting my number. I think this just confirms that my approach was not so good... but, she did text back.

I have not sent her a text back yet, but here are 2 different responses I have in mind:

"sometimes it's good to get out of your comfort zone like an adventure. since we barely know each other, let's just meet up for coffee some day during lunch. casual. relaxed. no pressure. what day are you free?"

"I understand. however, meeting someone at dance club can be a little weird too how about we talk on the phone to get to know each other more. then we can meet up for a date. when are you usually free to talk?"
(The idea here is to charm her and build rapport over the phone.)

I was thinking something like this, not quite sure yet. What do you guys think?

 

[PinotNoir]

I picked the first one and changed it a bit:

well, sometimes it's good to get out of your comfort zone like an adventure. so we can get to know each other better, let's just grab coffee one day during lunch. just casual and relaxed, no pressure. what day works best for you?

If things go well, then I'll try to set up a night date.

 

[Marty]

I picked the first one and changed it a bit:

Pinot, I like the way you've handled this. Hope all goes well for you. If it doesn't, it won't be through any fault of your own, I think. I like the way you take the pressure off and prevent her from setting sky-high expectations. Nice job.

 

[PinotNoir]

Thanks man!

After several texts, I have the coffee date set up this Sunday afternoon. If anyone is interested, I can post the entire text conversation later, else, I'm not going to worry about it.

Time to see if I still have my deep-diving skills sharp....

 

[Supah]

Good luck!

 

[PinotNoir]

Thanks. I hope you guys don't mind me updating this constantly

I don't really know the board rules on this.

Update #3

She forgot that she had plans Sunday. I just said no worries and asked when she's free next. She said Tuesday, so we rescheduled for then (today) at 7.

During lunch today, I just sent a short text asking if we're still on and how she is. She said yes and fine.

I arrived a little early because I wasn't sure how far it was. I was worried that she may flake as 7:05 rolled by, but then she arrived a few minutes after.

I hugged her and said that she looked great and complimented her on her winter clothes. She actually did look quite attractive; I wasn't quite sure at the park because she was wearing big sunglasses and walking clothes.

I bought the coffee. She didn't say anything about it; I didn't say anything about it. I just paid for it.

We talked for about 2-3 hours. I think it went pretty well. There were a few pauses, but nothing long. I deep dived pretty much everything that I could think of haha. Again, I should have had more sex framing and chase framing. I think I'll re-read those articles. There were a few moments where she leaned in, or we just locked eyes while I began talking about how we met or something "romantic"... and it was just kind of obvious that we were looking at each other in that way. She generally talked more than I did, as I try to do that for deep diving, but not by much. She probably talked about 55-60% of the time, while I talked about 40-45% of the time. Not a great ratio. I'd rather her percentage be up more, but I had pretty much hit every go-to topic that I could think of and had followed every thread that I could think of.

I tried to suggest doing something after using a yes-ladder (movie, dinner, etc.), but she politely turned it down :\

At the end of the date, she was hinting at a 2nd date pretty hard -- using "again" a lot. She mentioned casually our next date being dinner or something... I'm not sure if she's just wanting a free dinner here or wanting to actually date me. This is kind of a warning flag. The problem is that I do not have a seduction location to take her, so I may have to do dinner and then somehow end up back at her place...

I only hugged her at the end. I was pretty disappointed that I didn't try to kiss her the whole night, but it just didn't feel right for a coffee date.

Thoughts for a 2nd date?

 

[Marty]

Pinot:

I hugged her and said that she looked great and complimented her on her winter clothes.

I don't like to harp on, especially after you successfully set up a date, but please read this:

Hugging vs. cheek-kissing

You see it's not just my opinion, Chase came out quite strongly on this issue. I feel a little European-style kiss could have helped in getting things off to a romantic, rather than friendly, start. Of course it's easier for me as I really am European, so American ladies "forgive me"

Hope you don't mind my little contribution...

-Marty

 

[PinotNoir]

Yep, completely agree, and I have used the cheek kiss on other first dates. I think I got too in my head about kissing her on the lips that I just forgot about the cheek. I don't know...

If we go on a 2nd date, when we first meet, I'll definitely kiss her on the cheek.

I know that Chase avoids any kissing and any hugging until you're in a seduction location (but I may be wrong here, so don't quote me), but I'm just not advanced enough for that. I still have to kiss girls before the seduction location.

Any advice on how I can move this to her place? On the site, I've read about using things at her house that you have discussed in conversation or suggesting just a movie or nightcap back at her place. However, I can already tell there is going to be some resistance to returning to her place, and she never really talked about anything at her house while we were out.

 

[ocantu1987]

Wow! pinot she actually went out with you? what did you say when you used you "yes ladder" ?

 

[PinotNoir]

Wow! pinot she actually went out with you? what did you say when you used you "yes ladder" ?

She said, "I think this is just fine for this time" or something like that (basically saying "no" without saying "no"). I probably could have pushed harder and persisted, but I was feeling pretty relaxed and a little lazy so didn't worry about it.

 

[PinotNoir]

Sorry to disappoint, but I have (kind of purposely) turned this into a FU.

Anyway, here's how I set up the 2nd date. I had to hunt through my logs.

The day after the date, I texted her. Based on my experience, text the next day, not that night after the date. If you text that night, it makes you look like you're still up thinking about her, and I've gotten kind of random (emotional) results. Usually when I have texted right after the date, I've gotten a text back, "Yes, I had an amazing time too! Looking forward to the next one" or something similar, and then I have never heard back from those girls. However, after consistently waiting until the next day to text (if no sex/kissing), I've gotten more realistic responses and more 2nd dates.

Day-after text:
11:43: "hey A, coffee was fun last night. did it keep you awake? hopefully the decaf was mild"
12:43: "Hey had a great time too... coffee kept me up just a little bit but no big deal "
13:16: "ah, well thats not too bad. any dreams of coffee waves [related to date conversation]? so when are you free next? I'm only out friday night and saturday since going to X"
13:27: "Sunday... I have stuff to do the rest of this week... and you will probably won't be back till late Saturday or will be tired that evening"

(She uses "..." like a period; it's always in every text, which is a little odd.)

Really nothing special there. Just simple and to the point. I let the 1st date determine whether she wants a 2nd date. I don't try to impress her with extravagant texts, as I know they won't work if she felt that the 1st date went poorly.

This was Wednesday. I pinged her again Thursday:

"loving that disco music tonight! how is everything and work? anything new or interesting happen?"

This got a response and we texted back and forth briefly.

I pinged her again Friday after hearing about the hurricane in Philippines (where she's from):

"hey, was everything good with your family?"

We texted briefly again.

On Sunday, I called her to talk about the 2nd date. In a nutshell, I will be moving soon (the sooner the better, but it may be a couple of months still unfortunately; at the time, I thought it was going to be very soon), so I talked with her on the phone and she was excited about the date, but I had to unfortunately let her down. I just let her know that I'd be moving soon, and she got kind of (sad) upset. I said that we could still go on the date if she wanted, but she politely declined (and actually suggested some other day, which was odd?). I texted her to hang out as friends, but she never answered that as I expected.

Now, this is a FU, but I had set up myself as more of a provider than a lover unfortunately, so I knew that I needed to bring this up soon. I didn't want us wasting time. Also, I know it's extremely dumb, but there's also another girl in the picture from my recent past. The problem is that we have too much chemistry, and we always enjoy being around each other. I'm not moving for her, but I will be moving to a state closer to her state (2 hour drive apart, not in the same state), so I figured that I'd try that again since she wants to be my girlfriend again. If we didn't have so much chemistry, I wouldn't even consider it and just be friends. With my approaches and the articles here, I have enough confidence where I won't be that heartbroken if it ends, and I know that I have the ability to easily find a women just as good. And honestly, I like her better than this girl from the park (but that's only based on 1 date, so it's biased and a little unfair). I know there will be a lot of facepalming here, but it's hard to illustrate the entire story via a small paragraph of text. Put simply, it's an adventure and chance that I don't want to regret trying when I'm older, just because I've enjoyed being with her more than most other women I've been with.