Second date fail. Need insight.

[ramirezs316]

So I met this girl in September, hit it off, got her number, and we started texting. She was always too busy to go out, but when she was free, she flaked on two occasions. I put her on the back burner, but in December, decided to hit her up for the hell of it and we went out. It was casual with drinks at two bars, where she got drunk (she had been celebrating xmas break before we met up unbeknowst to me). We made out a little, but she wasn't in the right state to try to bed. She had a great time though, and we kept texting (flirting a little), only able to set up a second date till this weekend.

Now to set up a contrast, I went on a second date Friday with a different girl, where I could immediately tell she wasn't digging me and wasn't ready to start dating again. It was a struggle to get through.

My second date with September girl was great! I drove to see her, picked her up, we went to a restaurant and had dinner. Right away, it was so much easier than my other second date. She was receptive, engaged, we were teasing and flirting back and forth. We went to a bar after and chatted. I deep dived and she opened up about high school, childhood, her artistic passion, dating philosophy (which we were totally both in sync on). I moved her to a couch, where we chilled and I got more physical (even though she isn't used to PDA), playing with her hands and rubbing her thighs. We were in a relaxed mood and made plans to see each other again next weekend. Outside at the car, I tried to kiss her but she resisted, laughing it off that I was crazy, and I played it off. We drove back to her place, where I was gonna walk her up to her apt but she wanted to say goodbye at the stairwell. She pulled me in and we made out and hugged. I tried to lead her up the stairs but she wanted to call it a night, so I made out with her more aggressively. She liked it but laughed it off, saying "I have to get up early tomorrow, silly. Text me." That was the end of the night.

Even though I didn't pull her back to her place, I felt confident I had done everything I could given how shy she had been. It still surprised me yesterday to get a text from her saying "Uhm yesterday definitely made me realize I'm not really into you. Sorry if I wasted your time." This was after 4 months of solid texts, a first date she loved, and a five hour second date where she opened up and got physical. With the Friday second date as reference, there was no indication that she was bored, not connected to the conversation, or not receptive to my touch. If she was upset I didn't fuck her, how was I supposed to when she wouldn't let me?

I'm hoping to get a little insight so I can go back to the drawing board. I can provide more details.

 

[-B-]

you did great man she seemed to be really digging you

The only thing you may have needed to work on was getting these things across.

-disqualifying yourself from boyfriend category. Read chases ultimate article on “how to get girls”. Here you will realize why being a good potential boyfriend makes getting laid hard

-moving faster. I don't know why you guys did 4 months of solid texts before getting to this point

-letting her know that you respect sexually liberated girls and where most of society sees a “slut” You see a confident girl who knows that we are only sexy and young for so long. This way she won't think you will view her as a slut if she gives it up early

About the Text:

Im having some trouble realizing whats going on here. Maybe she had a weird ex boyfriend she still hangs with that sent you this on her phone, maybe shes throwing some kind of crazy bullshit test at you to see how you will respond, maybe she did actually lose interest in you if you didn't live up to all the hype that was built after 4 MONTHS OF TEXTING! (this site tells you that you should only text girls purely to set up a real life meet up ASAP)...Whatever the hell it was, the way you should respond to this should be the same

PLEASE TELL ME YOU DIDN'T RESPOND TO THIS YET

if you didn't text back yet... text this

“oh... I wasn't aware were trying out something serious. I thought we were just chillin havin a fun time. You don't have to apologize. Friday was kinda fun so I wouldn't say it was a waste of time. No worries”

then be completely non needy and cool with her decision. This will take her off guard a bit. Work on other girls in the meantime. About 3 weeks to a month later text her something completely, natural, fun and positive, and non needy. Try to move forward from there. If she blows you off again just move on for good

 

[ramirezs316]

you did great man she seemed to be really digging you

The only thing you may have needed to work on was getting these things across.

-disqualifying yourself from boyfriend category. Read chases ultimate article on “how to get girls”. Here you will realize why being a good potential boyfriend makes getting laid hard

-moving faster. I don't know why you guys did 4 months of solid texts before getting to this point

-letting her know that you respect sexually liberated girls and where most of society sees a “slut” You see a confident girl who knows that we are only sexy and young for so long. This way she won't think you will view her as a slut if she gives it up early

About the Text:

Im having some trouble realizing whats going on here. Maybe she had a weird ex boyfriend she still hangs with that sent you this on her phone, maybe shes throwing some kind of crazy bullshit test at you to see how you will respond, maybe she did actually lose interest in you if you didn't live up to all the hype that was built after 4 MONTHS OF TEXTING! (this site tells you that you should only text girls purely to set up a real life meet up ASAP)...Whatever the hell it was, the way you should respond to this should be the same

PLEASE TELL ME YOU DIDN'T RESPOND TO THIS YET

if you didn't text back yet... text this

“oh... I wasn't aware were trying out something serious. I thought we were just chillin havin a fun time. You don't have to apologize. Friday was kinda fun so I wouldn't say it was a waste of time. No worries”

then be completely non needy and cool with her decision. This will take her off guard a bit. Work on other girls in the meantime. About 3 weeks to a month later text her something completely, natural, fun and positive, and non needy. Try to move forward from there. If she blows you off again just move on for good

Here's how the 4 months of texting went. Got her number, built rapport for a day, then asked her out, she came back busy. Tried again next week, busy. Third or fourth week, set up date, but she flaked so I said she seemed busy and cut her off. Tried again the next month, set up date, but she flaked so I cut her off for awhile. Hit her up in December because bored, able to set up date but gave her a condition that I had a three strikes rule. Went out, she said she was surprised she had a great time, was excited to see me again but had to go home for holidays. We flirted here and there but it was on and off. She would say she forgot how I "tasted" on our date and wanted to be reminded. She sent me a pic of her in her bra but then said she wasn't in the right frame of mind. I would joke that if we watched tv together, we wouldn't get much watching done, but she laughed it off. I had brought up on our first date that I wished America was more like Europe where they take lovers and she totally agreed. I brought this up again on our second date, where we both weren't looking for something "serious" ie get married in the end. She hadn't had a boyfriend for four of five years, and she admitted to being really private, so I had to be all confidence. She also lives with her sister, and when I suggested in text for our second date that we watch a movie at her place (she likes netflix), she was like "No lol. We'll go to a theatre"--I nixed that immediately lol. But there was very little apprehension on the date (which btw, dinner and drinks is her "perfect second date" she told me).

My text response yesterday, because I thought it was a joke (she would do that sometimes):
Me: Hmm...really?
Her: Yeah.
Me: Interesting...you seemed like you had a good time. So what are you looking for or not looking for lol?
Her: Nothing really.
Me: Haha, I don't want you to think I was getting serious. I'm chill and open around you is all.
Her: I didn't think that at all. Just not into you that's all.
Me: That surprises me a little but maybe I haven't been around you long enough.
Her: I've been around you long enough to know I'm not interested.
Me: Were you just not feeling it during or after?
Her: All of the above
Then she went dead for awhile and I tried one or two question texts like "You know what's funny?" to get a proper conclusion to the conversation but she didn't bite. This seemed cool and level headed to me. She's an open enough girl to answer me like she did (though it was still vague as shit) but her continued responses don't seem good. Should I just text: "You don't have to apologize. Sunday was kinda fun so I wouldn't say it was a waste of time. No worries! "

 

[Thedoctor]

Ramirez,

It really sounds like you didn't try very hard to push past her resistance of not letting you in. Shy or not, she's the one that pulled you in to her. Then the next morning, she thinks that because she didn't have sex with you that she must not have wanted to, hence the text she sent. It seems like the rest of the interaction really went well. Getting past resistance was always kind of a sticking point for me cause I always thought that if I persisted too much that I was forcing myself on a girl. Until one day it was a girl that explained to me exactly why girls do this sort of thing. This article explains why it's crucial to escalate to sex and what happens if you don't:

https://www.girlschase.com/content/we-ar ... %E2%80%99t

You should always try to find a reason to come into her place at the end of a night. I wouldn't have advised you making out with her more aggressively outside her place after her initial decline. Always try to avoid kissing until you're inside her place or yours. Instead of trying to make out more aggressively, you should have tried to overcome her resistance by saying something along the lines "Come on, let's have one last drink inside to finish off the night. You can kick me out after if ya want"

Just my thoughts,

-John

 

[ramirezs316]

I guess it felt like escalating and doing enough to get through resistance to me. I don't have enough experience to know otherwise maybe. I had tried previously to get over to her place or would mention it but she would shoot it down.

 

[-B-]

Okay, the content of your text messages is much better than I expected. I thought you guys were just texting buddies talking about everything going on in each others lives every other day. Its good that you were making to a point to go hard for the dates. You also did a good job on showing you weren't judgmental against “sluts”. Sounds like you disqualified from boyfriend category so decent job on all of those things. She seemed to be giving you positive sexual signs from what I can see.

As far as sending the modified version of the text example I provided. The whole thing about that was to show her that you are not needy and could easily move on, that YOU had the upper hand... not her. Always try to gain the upper hand in a relation. Try to frame it so you are just having a fun time being flirty cause thats just you... but you are not all that invested emotionally or trying too hard in whats going on, ur just enjoying the ride and casually trying to make the most of the moment. The whole thing about that text is you would NOT ask questions like “whats going on” and “why don't you like me” or “when did you lose interest in me” and that you would of stayed completely cool so she realizes she has no effect on you or no control over you. So I would say its a little late to send that last part now. In fact persisting beyond this point is pretty much chasing in my eyes and it will hurt you more than help you.

Just move on and try with new girls. Its not really this hard most of the time, when things are going well girls just don't flake (maybe once max) and they won't bluntly tell you to your face that they dont like you because they are afraid to loose a cool guy like you and a good thing they had going. Personally I would cut the cord and move on. By some weird chance she might hit you up again with a some interest, but that interest will be just as feeble and fall apart as easy as it did this time.

John might be right about not closing and folding to resistance, but a girl who really wanted sex from you and dumped you cause you didn't give it to her would not have turned down the netflix idea, and she would have not put up such firm at pretty much at every potential transition point to sex. The article and dilemma that john is referring to is usually when you get into their apartment (which they allow cause they like you), and you start making out and touching and she puts up resistance because she wants you to to stick around on some level afterwards. And she would be afraid that you would not care about her and move on if she gives it up too easy. The thing is that John is right about her defense being much weaker at the end there. In the end i think that you spent way to much effort and to many attempts trying to close her with no success, and in her eyes this made you look unnattractive... if its not this it would be something like where she has this complex where she makes guys jump through a bunch of hoops and puts up all these obstacles cause she is really choosy about her mates. but seeing she has that much power over the guys and watching them try and invest that hard to overcome the obstacles causes her to lose interest 95 percent of the time. I wish I could see the whole thing with my own eyes. Really try to step out of your own perspective and view it from the outside and just look at simply what happened.

 

[ramirezs316]

Okay, the content of your text messages is much better than I expected. I thought you guys were just texting buddies talking about everything going on in each others lives every other day. Its good that you were making to a point to go hard for the dates. You also did a good job on showing you weren't judgmental against “sluts”. Sounds like you disqualified from boyfriend category so decent job on all of those things. She seemed to be giving you positive sexual signs from what I can see.

As far as sending the modified version of the text example I provided. The whole thing about that was to show her that you are not needy and could easily move on, that YOU had the upper hand... not her. Always try to gain the upper hand in a relation. Try to frame it so you are just having a fun time being flirty cause thats just you... but you are not all that invested emotionally or trying too hard in whats going on, ur just enjoying the ride and casually trying to make the most of the moment. The whole thing about that text is you would NOT ask questions like “whats going on” and “why don't you like me” or “when did you lose interest in me” and that you would of stayed completely cool so she realizes she has no effect on you or no control over you. So I would say its a little late to send that last part now. In fact persisting beyond this point is pretty much chasing in my eyes and it will hurt you more than help you.

Just move on and try with new girls. Its not really this hard most of the time, when things are going well girls just don't flake (maybe once max) and they won't bluntly tell you to your face that they dont like you because they are afraid to loose a cool guy like you and a good thing they had going. Personally I would cut the cord and move on. By some weird chance she might hit you up again with a some interest, but that interest will be just as feeble and fall apart as easy as it did this time.

John might be right about not closing and folding to resistance, but a girl who really wanted sex from you and dumped you cause you didn't give it to her would not have turned down the netflix idea, and she would have not put up such firm at pretty much at every potential transition point to sex. The article and dilemma that john is referring to is usually when you get into their apartment (which they allow cause they like you), and you start making out and touching and she puts up resistance because she wants you to to stick around on some level afterwards. And she would be afraid that you would not care about her and move on if she gives it up too easy. The thing is that John is right about her defense being much weaker at the end there. In the end i think that you spent way to much effort and to many attempts trying to close her with no success, and in her eyes this made you look unnattractive... if its not this it would be something like where she has this complex where she makes guys jump through a bunch of hoops and puts up all these obstacles cause she is really choosy about her mates. but seeing she has that much power over the guys and watching them try and invest that hard to overcome the obstacles causes her to lose interest 95 percent of the time. I wish I could see the whole thing with my own eyes. Really try to step out of your own perspective and view it from the outside and just look at simply what happened.

Damn, texting is sensitive. I've sent messages before like "I thought we had a lot of potential" and crap like that. With this, we were always open when talking and rapport building, so being level headed like "Hmm..." or "Interesting" seemed a good option. I thought I did well with the chill line, but I guess fishing for any reason from a girl is dicey. Is sending a closing "No worries" text really chasing? She was all conciliatory, saying "Sorry" initially. To me it seems more like "well, hey, I had fun. Don't worry about it. Peace, I'm out!" in case she does think i was invested or something.

Now, thinking back, with all her resistance and reticence, she might've just been wanting a drinking buddy or really casual date. She mentioned all her friends had left, and she invited me out with her and her sister on two occasions, which I declined. I'm not saying I was friendzoned, but sex and romance never seemed a priority, hence all the "You're crazy" and stuff like that.

 

[-B-]

Yea when it comes to texting girls and dealing with girls, you have to be extremely careful and make sure you always come of non needy, and outcome independent AT ALL TIMES. I have learned this the hard way many times my friend.

Yea you can send a closing text similar to the one that you mentioned but I don't think it will make a difference in her behavior towards you at all. At this point it's really a decision between being cordial with her even though she doesn't really care and said she doesn't like you to your face, or just moving on realizing that she doesn't give a shit about you and you returning the favor (I would personally take the latter, but that's just me)

I think your analysis of her wanting more of a drinking buddy is probably spot on

some tips and pointers for you from now on

don't say anything or send any texts about how relations are going between you, or how she feels, or how you really value her and think shes a great girl... Texts to set up dates, Flirty sexual texts, and fun care free positive texts are all game

here is the bigger one.

- Try to put yourself in that upper hand position I was talking about. You always want to be the one thats just having a fun time and cares less about how things are going between you then the other person. With the next girl you are working on... try to not come on like “Wow you're this amazing girl and I really want to have experiences with you” instead try to just be positive fun and sexual cause that's your default personality. (assuming this is more social circle then random cold approach) Then tease the girl, flirt with her a little bit. Then back off and act like you are not too focused on her or worried about her. Then give her a little tease and sexual vibe. Then cool off again. The goal of this is to make her unsure of whether you really like her or not which makes her think of you more... thus liking you more. Plus the outcome independence is attractive. If you can fuck around with her mind like this until you can feel she wants you. Then move it forward towards sex like this site instructs in a fun, sexual, non needy way. (this process is not needed if she is already digging you and doesn't feel higher value than you)

 

[ramirezs316]

Yea when it comes to texting girls and dealing with girls, you have to be extremely careful and make sure you always come of non needy, and outcome independent AT ALL TIMES. I have learned this the hard way many times my friend.

Yea you can send a closing text similar to the one that you mentioned but I don't think it will make a difference in her behavior towards you at all. At this point it's really a decision between being cordial with her even though she doesn't really care and said she doesn't like you to your face, or just moving on realizing that she doesn't give a shit about you and you returning the favor (I would personally take the latter, but that's just me)

I think your analysis of her wanting more of a drinking buddy is probably spot on

some tips and pointers for you from now on

don't say anything or send any texts about how relations are going between you, or how she feels, or how you really value her and think shes a great girl... Texts to set up dates, Flirty sexual texts, and fun care free positive texts are all game

here is the bigger one.

- Try to put yourself in that upper hand position I was talking about. You always want to be the one thats just having a fun time and cares less about how things are going between you then the other person. With the next girl you are working on... try to not come on like “Wow you're this amazing girl and I really want to have experiences with you” instead try to just be positive fun and sexual cause that's your default personality. (assuming this is more social circle then random cold approach) Then tease the girl, flirt with her a little bit. Then back off and act like you are not too focused on her or worried about her. Then give her a little tease and sexual vibe. Then cool off again. The goal of this is to make her unsure of whether you really like her or not which makes her think of you more... thus liking you more. Plus the outcome independence is attractive. If you can fuck around with her mind like this until you can feel she wants you. Then move it forward towards sex like this site instructs in a fun, sexual, non needy way. (this process is not needed if she is already digging you and doesn't feel higher value than you)

Most of my texts to her were to set up dates, care free positive, build rapport after I cut her off for a few weeks. We did text a little more after the first date with it being the holidays and us having stuff to chat about. I definitely want to try to minimize my texting even more with the next girl. Build rapport, then set up date and be minimal until I get her out. I've been doing online dating recently, so its tough when you have to chat to get them comfortable with you, then you get into a rhythm.

Its funny, whenever my numbers or options dry up, I always start noticing girls looking at me like they can sense that I'm on the prowl, lol. I noticed today at the gym.