FR+  Second polyamorous chick…and ALMOST pulled

The Byronic Man

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Aug 28, 2013
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209
Those of you who have been following know that I’ve been working the online dating scene. Tonight was also my second experience with a polyamorous woman, and something I learned from my first is that just because she is polyamorous doesn’t mean she won’t put up typical objections to pulling. Tonight’s girl proved to be no exception, and I’m particularly looking for advice on how to improve my pulling skills. To put things in perspective, she is a 25 year-old dirty blond with nice curves. A solid 8 and 8 years my junior.

I used an opener different from what I usually use. It’s actually the same that I used on the other polyamorous gal, but it’s something I came up myself and comes from my heart. I really do think it’s cool when someone, male or female, is able to see through the social B.S. and double-standards.

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She texted me that she’s free tonight (Monday) or Thursday. I’m typically booked on those days, but I decide to call off my Monday plans for her (I don’t tell her this of course). We agree to have drinks at 8:30pm.

She later texts me to ask if she should eat beforehand. Strange…I thought the time and drink date is obvious that we won’t be eating. Since I was running behind (I have a bad habit of being late everywhere), I tell her to meet at 9pm so she has time to eat and I can shower. To make a long story short, I almost lose the date because she suggests meeting another day so I don’t rush, but I save it by telling her to meet at 8:45pm instead.

Ironically, she arrives at 9pm anyway because she was still eating. As I do with all dates, I give her a big hug and kiss on the cheek…but this time, I decide to let my hand slide down her arm as well. I don’t know what came over me…probably because she was so cute and I couldn’t help myself :p.

Curveball: Our venue decided to close 1.5 hours early because “business was slow.” I make the decision to have drinks inside the Italian restaurant next door.

We only have drinks, and things are going pretty well (I think). She is leaning into me, I lean back and reward her with leaning in when she’s investing. She qualifies herself, and I’m deep diving her. Things are fun, flirty, and intimate. I think I’m getting better with comfort. :) I didn’t use any sexual innuendos though because I still struggle with winging those. Any default ones I can use, guys?

I recently watched “Casino Royale,” and my god, Daniel Craig’s body language, tonality, and game is incredible. I actually learned a lot from that film, haha. Anyway, I try to channel him, especially in the scene where he pulls that one brunette at the hotel. How? At about 50 minutes into our conversation, I know she's into me, I change topics back to DJing so I can suggest that I give her a training lesson. I give her the same look that Daniel Craig gives to that brunette—unflinching, strong, confident eye contact and a subtle smirk. She thinks about it for a second, and agrees. As we pay our checks, I bullshit banter so the transition isn’t awkward. Unfortunately, a few minutes later, she says she thinks she’ll be going home because she needs to wake up early, but that she’ll like to see me again. She even asks me if I’d like to see her again. I tell her I’d love to see her again (I read somewhere that you should not say you’d like to see her again, but she’s asking me directly, and she already said she’d like to see me, so I felt it’s right to reward her). Anyway, I stay calm, and she explains what she needs to do tomorrow and I ask a little about it. I persist again by teasing her that she’s a party pooper and that the night is still young. She still objects and I tell her it’s only going to be 30 minutes. I don’t let her respond and tell her let’s go and we leave the restaurant.

I ramp up kino by holding her waist as we walk to her car. I tell her she’ll drive, but she objects and tells me to stop being so pushy! I decide to stop persisting and walk over to her and give her a peck on the lips (she did not give any resistance or did not turn her head). Didn’t want to risk anything with a makeout until I’ve pulled her. I hold her close to me and stare into her eyes (to create sexual tension) and tell her that she tastes nice and she laughs. I let her go and we go our separate ways. I opted not to tell her that I had a great evening because I already told her I’d love to see her again earlier and I wanted to end the night on an interesting note. Not sure if that’s the right call.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post-mortem:

  • I told myself that if a girl were to ever agree to a pull, but later objects, I would persist until she complies. She did at one point agree, so she wants to, but when she told me to stop being so pushy, I felt like it would be too much to persist past that. Agree/disagree? I think next time, I'm going to use that yes ladder.
  • Tomorrow morning, I’ll tell her that I enjoyed the evening. I know she has Thursday evening open, but she also told me in our date that her openings get booked really fast, so I’m contemplating suggesting a second date tomorrow. But I think that’s too soon, so I’ll probably suggest the second date the day after tomorrow (still a bit on the fast side, but I feel like I need to make things happen fast).
  • Did I fuck things up by being too pushy with the pull? If so, what damage control options do I have? I'm thinking of explaining to her that I get overly excited when someone else is interested in DJ stuff so she doesn't think I'm only interested in her for sex.
  • Any suggestions for DEFAULT sexual innuendos/chase frames? I'm having a hard time coming up with them on the fly. When I do pull them off, sparks fly, so I see the great value in them.
  • I'm seeing the value in trying all sorts of stuff. This is the second time my improv classes have helped me relate. She told me she wanted to be an actress, and we hit it off when I told her I was taking improv classes and she expressed how she loves improv and how she used to be in drama and theater. She studies science now lol. I need to expand the variety of life experiences. Comes really useful!
 

Marty

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
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Jul 17, 2013
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1,386
Byron,

Can't answer anything but at least my response will bump your post for you. Hope others can be more helpful.

I loved your written opener and see that it was very effective. As I've mentioned before I admire your ability to communicate with women in writing... I don't know what I'd do if I didn't have body language and voice tone to fall back on; women seem to hate my texts.

This will probably sound like a very dumb question to you... but when seeking lovers online, do you publish your real photo? Are you not concerned that friends, colleagues, family members, other lovers etc. might stumble upon it while conducting their own forays? Perhaps you use a photo of another person with very similar, almost indistinguishable looks to yourself that only those who know you well enough will be able to tell apart?

-Marty
 

The Byronic Man

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Aug 28, 2013
Messages
209
Thanks, Marty! I guess I've done it enough times where I get a feeling with my writing. Likewise, I suck with sexual innuendos right now, but I think if I just force myself to do it more and more, I'll get better.

I do use my real photos online. Women have had no problem finding me in real life, so I know my photos are accurate and representative of my appearance. I'm not concerned if others stumble upon my profile because I don't think there's anything incriminating about my profile. The people in my life already know about my attitude towards women, so they wouldn't be surprised anyway. I've also showed my profile to a few female friends and they love it so much they treat me with more respect (lol), so if anything, I get bonus points. But I don't want people talking so I don't tell people about it.

I really want to approach more women in real life. I'm so busy these days I only get a chance to approach women in my day-to-day activities and hobbies, but I usually don't because I'm typically on a very tight schedule so I'm in and out whereever I go and need to schedule in time in advanced for women. I had to cancel my plans last night to make room for this girl.
 

ocantu1987

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Dec 6, 2012
Messages
401
Hey Byronic, I just started online dating myself. Do you normally get dates this way such as giving your phone number first and you did it within 3 days? I am talking to a girl right now on POF and I don't know what to do really, I am lost haha.
 

The Byronic Man

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Aug 28, 2013
Messages
209
Just exchanged these text messages:

ME: Hey [name omitted]. I had a great time with you last night. Wishing I'm at home right now watching "Cops." :) Sorry if I was pushy. I get excited about DJing. If I'm not a gentleman next time, you have permission to kick me in the shins!

HER: Yeah, that kind of put a bad taste in my mouth. I didn't really feel a connection, sorry-

ME: Yeah, got no excuse. I was a jerk.

This is officially a sticking point for me now. I think I may be too aggressive. Never thought I would say that. I'm thinking I need to be more gentlemanly with my persistence and I need to learn when to stop. Maybe I shouldn't even go for the pull if she's not giving out the right signs.

I think I need to focus on not making her think I'm only interested in her for sex. That may be why women are going cold when I get too pushy when I fail to pull her.

--------------------------------------------------------------

ocantu, check out this article.
 

Wick

Cro-Magnon Man
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Dec 25, 2012
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1,086
This is officially a sticking point for me now. I think I may be too aggressive. Never thought I would say that. I'm thinking I need to be more gentlemanly with my persistence and I need to learn when to stop. Maybe I shouldn't even go for the pull if she's not giving out the right signs.

I think I need to focus on not making her think I'm only interested in her for sex. That may be why women are going cold when I get too pushy when I fail to pull her.

I think the problem here is a classic example of what Chase spells out for us in "Whats the Difference Between a Lover and a Loser?" ...Having trouble with the link. It was posted a few days ago.

You're giving off value as friend in truckloads. I assume you both were feeling as connection with all the common interests. She mentions she didn't feel a connection when you were "pushy" AKA pushing for her to come home and have sex. That is not something friends do and she even mentioned that it didn't fit with the connection!

I think your issues can be fixed by balancing your value and that article explains this dynamic. Keep in mind, it starts the moment the interaction does. If you want to be taking these girls home as your lover, she has to sense that is what you are good for and not have to think how she might be risking losing such a great guy in other regards.

Let that awesome personal life become awesomely mysterious and get comfortable with your sexuality.
Work on your fundamentals! This is essentially sexual value.

I have put a lot of time into my own and the results are out of this world. Girls, I would daydream about are now giving shy smiles and approaching me!
 

Marty

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Jul 17, 2013
Messages
1,386
Hey J Wick:

Not wishing to hijack Byron's thread, BUT:

J Wick said:
I think your issues can be fixed by balancing your value ... This is essentially sexual value.
I have put a lot of time into my own and the results are out of this world.
In that case, can you please take a look at my Lover Value thread and let me know how to increase a man's sexual value, if that can be done. Something I'm very seriously struggling with right now: if you've just been through it, especially with such spectacular results, perhaps you can comment! Thank you :)

-Marty
 

The Byronic Man

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Aug 28, 2013
Messages
209
J Wick said:
This is officially a sticking point for me now. I think I may be too aggressive. Never thought I would say that. I'm thinking I need to be more gentlemanly with my persistence and I need to learn when to stop. Maybe I shouldn't even go for the pull if she's not giving out the right signs.

I think I need to focus on not making her think I'm only interested in her for sex. That may be why women are going cold when I get too pushy when I fail to pull her.

I think the problem here is a classic example of what Chase spells out for us in "Whats the Difference Between a Lover and a Loser?" ...Having trouble with the link. It was posted a few days ago.

You're giving off value as friend in truckloads. I assume you both were feeling as connection with all the common interests. She mentions she didn't feel a connection when you were "pushy" AKA pushing for her to come home and have sex. That is not something friends do and she even mentioned that it didn't fit with the connection!

I think your issues can be fixed by balancing your value and that article explains this dynamic. Keep in mind, it starts the moment the interaction does. If you want to be taking these girls home as your lover, she has to sense that is what you are good for and not have to think how she might be risking losing such a great guy in other regards.

Let that awesome personal life become awesomely mysterious and get comfortable with your sexuality.
Work on your fundamentals! This is essentially sexual value.

I have put a lot of time into my own and the results are out of this world. Girls, I would daydream about are now giving shy smiles and approaching me!
I doubt I came off as a friend. I think I failed to pull for other reasons, and her comment about no connection is probably her auto-rejection rationalization (e.g. women calling guys who reject them as assholes and men calling women who reject them as bitches). I have a feeling I could have pulled her on the second date. If you re-read my FR, I think it's clear she did not see me as a friend.

After reading the article you recommended though, it's quite possible I couldn't pull because she saw me as boyfriend material instead as a lover. I also may have set myself up for that because of the questions I asked while deep diving.
 

Chase

Chieftan
Staff member
tribal-elder
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Messages
5,558
Byronic-

A few points on pulling / follow up:

The Byronic Man said:
At about 50 minutes into our conversation, I know she's into me, I change topics back to DJing so I can suggest that I give her a training lesson. I give her the same look that Daniel Craig gives to that brunette—unflinching, strong, confident eye contact and a subtle smirk. She thinks about it for a second, and agrees. As we pay our checks, I bullshit banter so the transition isn’t awkward. Unfortunately, a few minutes later, she says she thinks she’ll be going home because she needs to wake up early, but that she’ll like to see me again. She even asks me if I’d like to see her again. I tell her I’d love to see her again (I read somewhere that you should not say you’d like to see her again, but she’s asking me directly, and she already said she’d like to see me, so I felt it’s right to reward her). Anyway, I stay calm, and she explains what she needs to do tomorrow and I ask a little about it. I persist again by teasing her that she’s a party pooper and that the night is still young.

Common mistake to make when you're still familiarizing yourself with pulling, but if you're going to persist, DON'T tell her you'll see her another mind and THEN go back and persist.

Either tell her you'll see her another time and drop it, OR ignore her talk about seeing you another time and persist.

So, this is okay:


  • Her: Actually, I need to get up early tomorrow. I think I'm just going to go home.
    You: Come for 30 minutes. That's enough to get a good jam session in, and it won't wreck your sleep cycle.
    Her: I really need to get up early tomorrow.
    You: That's why I'll make sure I don't keep you too late. Come on.

... and, this is okay:


  • Her: Actually, I need to get up early tomorrow. I think I'm just going to go home.
    You: Are you sure? Okay, no worries; schedules and whatnot.
    Her: Yeah. I had fun. Would you like to see me again?
    You: That depends. Are you going to turn into a pumpkin at 10 o'clock next time?
    Her: [laughs] No, I won't turn into a pumpkin next time.
    You: Do you promise?
    Her: Yeah, I promise.
    You: Okay. Maaaaaybe we can see each other again then.

However, THIS is NOT okay:


  • Her: Actually, I need to get up early tomorrow. I think I'm just going to go home.
    You: Are you sure? Okay, no worries; schedules and whatnot.
    Her: Yeah. I had fun. Would you like to see me again?
    You: Yeah, that'd be cool. ... Actually - you know what? Why don't you come with me?
    Her: No, I've REALLY got to get up early tomorrow.
    You: It's going to be great. There'll be DJing and...
    Her: I'm sorry. I've got to go.

On the follow up:

The Byronic Man said:
ME: Hey [name omitted]. I had a great time with you last night. Wishing I'm at home right now watching "Cops." :) Sorry if I was pushy. I get excited about DJing. If I'm not a gentleman next time, you have permission to kick me in the shins!

HER: Yeah, that kind of put a bad taste in my mouth. I didn't really feel a connection, sorry-

ME: Yeah, got no excuse. I was a jerk.

Quick translation into the subtext being communicated here:

  • 1. Byronic: "Hey, I'm sorry for being sexually interested in you. I should totally not have been that way."
    2. Girl: "Yeah, I was offended that you wanted sex with me. I decided you would serve me best in the friend role. I feel betrayed."
    3. Byronic: "You're right, I should have just given you my platonic friendship and left it at that. There's no excuse for my behavior."

There's really no excuse for cutting your balls off with a girl... I don't care if you pushed a little too hard, she will have massive, MASSIVE amounts more respect for you if you push a little too hard but stay unapologetic about being sexually interested in her, and she'll actually feel complimented and feel treated like a woman, pursued by a masculine, attractive man, than if you emasculate yourself apologizing for having had a sexual interest in her.

Just imagine a male gorilla approaching a female gorilla to mate... the female gorilla spurns his advances once... he later comes up to her and says, "Sorry, I should not have done that," and she says, "Yeah, I'm totally disgusted that you tried."

Another male gorilla then mounts her and releases his seed into her. He leaves; no apology issued.

Which male gorilla does the female gorilla hold in higher esteem?

Homework assignment: read this: Should You Apologize to Women?

Chase
 
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