Seduction = Doing Less, Not More.

[Mr Mistah]

I’ve been reading 60 YOC – apparently his style is Sexy Quiet Guy game which resonates with me.

60 has this idea that men only need 3 things to generate attraction.

• Use seductive eye contact
• Get close
• Touch her.

Everything else is extra and to some extent “Clown Game” as he calls it.

His style is very minimalistic and mostly centred on holding tension. That’s it.

He is not concerned with building attraction or doing anything special because he says nature has already taken care of that for you via the natural tension that exists between men and women.

In what he calls his “Anti manifesto” – 60 tells seducers, “Do Less, Not More.”

Don’t over fixate on the “special” things you can do to CREATE attraction but give more attention to the small things that reduce the sexual tension that is already there. Such as talking - laughing - reacting - fidgeting - bailing her out - supplicating facial expressions. Etc



As someone with a naturally nonchalant/cool affect I can say that this odd thing where girls are seemingly very into me even when I have literally done nothing happens to me regularly. The last one was this weekend and is actually what made me revisit 60YOC books on anti-game.



60 says,

“I consider this an anti-manifesto because most strategies usually focus on what you need to do or say. There is nothing to say. There is nothing to do.”

In the end it always seems to come down to who wins the little tension battles:

Eye Contact: who is going to look away first Introduction: who pulls their hand away first

Silence: who gives in and talks first

Resistance: who tries to diffuse the awkward moment first Who breaks down and needs to have a talk about “what is going on” first. His way of dealing with resistance is to Keep quiet. Let her objection be heard and become part of the official record. Now you can try again. Resistance doesn’t become real until you RESPOND to it.



60 also has 3 other key principles.

• Perfect your poker face. Essential for building & holdin tension esp when she’s the one giving you the story i.e in conversation. When you’re not actively validating her speech by going ohh ahh yeahhh it gets intimidating for her and introduces a qualifying frame for her.

• Always go for an IOM via handholding. According to 60, the point of Escalation is really about making the attraction that is already there official. Building up to a kiss is a waste of time. Just vibe then reach for her hand and if she holds you back – PULL!

• Risk creepy/Risk Perveted – 60 makes the sterling observation that most guys don’t get enough practice being seductive. They have tons of practice being social and opening “sets” but not much practice being seductive. If you want to be seductive you need to risk creepy. In fact, there is no way to avoid creepy. So you might as well admit it right now. You are creepy. But don’t worry, the so called “creepy” guys also get laid the most. If a girl calls you creepy that’s her baiting you into breaking tension with her because she’s aroused. Don’t take the bait. Let that shit roll of your back like water and keep going.

Basically, 60’s game is very minimalistic and is built around not breaking tension and not breaking rapport when a chick baits you into doing so.



He also finds IOM moments to be the truth. If a chick is all flirty and giggly but won’t hold your hand when you do… next.

I feel like people like 60 a very underrepresented in these circles except for people like Cosy who practice this minimalistic, quiet guy style of game.

Wanted to get your opinions on this type of game as I’m still mapping it out.

It also happens that building and holding tension is my forte given my naturally nonchalant/cool affect.

Have you guys ever simply tried doing less? Fuck all that other stuff. Build and hold tension, poker face, hold her hand as an IOM then pull.

I unconsciously did this last weekend and I'm wondering how to replicate from scratch.

Whenever I try doing it consciously, I end up becoming the too cool for school stiff caricature as opposed to when I genuinely don't give a fuck about anything.

How do I replicate this vibe consciously without becoming a caricature.

 

[PaulieFlyn10]

Very interesting concept from 60
Though I'm not sure how this would work in a real cold approach where there is no AI or basically any sign of initial interest


But regarding your question, i think 60 would do a better than job than me to answer that @Warped Mindless

 

[Skills]

I’ve been reading 60 YOC – apparently his style is Sexy Quiet Guy game which resonates with me.

60 has this idea that men only need 3 things to generate attraction.

• Use seductive eye contact
• Get close
• Touch her.

Everything else is extra and to some extent “Clown Game” as he calls it.

His style is very minimalistic and mostly centred on holding tension. That’s it.

He is not concerned with building attraction or doing anything special because he says nature has already taken care of that for you via the natural tension that exists between men and women.

In what he calls his “Anti manifesto” – 60 tells seducers, “Do Less, Not More.”

Don’t over fixate on the “special” things you can do to CREATE attraction but give more attention to the small things that reduce the sexual tension that is already there. Such as talking - laughing - reacting - fidgeting - bailing her out - supplicating facial expressions. Etc



As someone with a naturally nonchalant/cool affect I can say that this odd thing where girls are seemingly very into me even when I have literally done nothing happens to me regularly. The last one was this weekend and is actually what made me revisit 60YOC books on anti-game.



60 says,



In the end it always seems to come down to who wins the little tension battles:

Eye Contact: who is going to look away first Introduction: who pulls their hand away first

Silence: who gives in and talks first

Resistance: who tries to diffuse the awkward moment first Who breaks down and needs to have a talk about “what is going on” first. His way of dealing with resistance is to Keep quiet. Let her objection be heard and become part of the official record. Now you can try again. Resistance doesn’t become real until you RESPOND to it.



60 also has 3 other key principles.

• Perfect your poker face. Essential for building & holdin tension esp when she’s the one giving you the story i.e in conversation. When you’re not actively validating her speech by going ohh ahh yeahhh it gets intimidating for her and introduces a qualifying frame for her.

• Always go for an IOM via handholding. According to 60, the point of Escalation is really about making the attraction that is already there official. Building up to a kiss is a waste of time. Just vibe then reach for her hand and if she holds you back – PULL!

• Risk creepy/Risk Perveted – 60 makes the sterling observation that most guys don’t get enough practice being seductive. They have tons of practice being social and opening “sets” but not much practice being seductive. If you want to be seductive you need to risk creepy. In fact, there is no way to avoid creepy. So you might as well admit it right now. You are creepy. But don’t worry, the so called “creepy” guys also get laid the most. If a girl calls you creepy that’s her baiting you into breaking tension with her because she’s aroused. Don’t take the bait. Let that shit roll of your back like water and keep going.

Basically, 60’s game is very minimalistic and is built around not breaking tension and not breaking rapport when a chick baits you into doing so.



He also finds IOM moments to be the truth. If a chick is all flirty and giggly but won’t hold your hand when you do… next.

I feel like people like 60 a very underrepresented in these circles except for people like Cosy who practice this minimalistic, quiet guy style of game.

Wanted to get your opinions on this type of game as I’m still mapping it out.

It also happens that building and holding tension is my forte given my naturally nonchalant/cool affect.

Have you guys ever simply tried doing less? Fuck all that other stuff. Build and hold tension, poker face, hold her hand as an IOM then pull.

I unconsciously did this last weekend and I'm wondering how to replicate from scratch.

Whenever I try doing it consciously, I end up becoming the too cool for school stiff caricature as opposed to when I genuinely don't give a fuck about anything.

How do I replicate this vibe consciously without becoming a caricature.

60 is one of the books i recommend for the right physical game, and really loud clubs were you can not talk.... I have been doing 60 yoc style naturally for years, since i had a really heavy deep latin accent, so since i was losing tons of women due to my lack of communication, i learned naturally to do 60 yoc..... It is very useful in very loud environments, but is totally limited NOW A DAYS, you need to use it in combination with verbals so it can be more effective and lethal....If needed, if the girl is ready to go, no need, but this is usually no the case now a days they need a bit of influence/persuasion... Though, is coming back around recently to be like this again in clubs(seems physical game coming back at clubs specially).... But still if you can learn 60 and combine with second gen/teevester sex talk (towards mid to end seduction) if needed, lethal...

here is a post on this for context

 

[ulrich]

60 years of challenge is definitely a must read.
It impacted very positively my early years at a seducer and I am very fond it.

That being said, it is too much of a minimalist approach… in my opinion it lacks some key elements of an advanced seduction (frame control, attainability management, sexual innuendo).

I would say it works great as an anti-mainstream approach to get beginners/intermediates into a more productive state of mind and focus on the right things.

But a complete style, I can’t say it is.

 

[ulrich]

This reminded me of the common advice that we give to beginners in this community which is “talk less”.

We tell them to talk less not because verbals are useless but because, coming from a mainstream background, beginners likely are underutilizing non-verbals and are also prone to create unproductive frames.

Verbals are not your enemy… they’re a part of a good seduction.

 

[rr2021 aka DEVENCI]

I have tried to learn every possible style you can imagine.

and i have been coached directly by captain jack, RSD tyler, RSD julien, bacchus. gunwitch, alek roland aka costofsucess and several other gurus/experts

after all that by far the most useful method/style i have found is 60 YOC...only thing close is some of chase stuff.

i wish i had found 60 sooner so could get coached by him directly but he seems to be out of the community now

i reccomend his ebooks and also his "Magic Mindsets" video course

 

[Mr Mistah]

i learned naturally to do 60 yoc..... It is very useful in very loud environments, but is totally limited NOW A DAYS, you need to use it in combination with verbals

Correct me if I'm wrong but this sounds to me like Caveman game or whatever it is Aaron Sleazy used to do to get 5min pulls at the club.

From my understanding of 60 he is completely hands off with girls... no fancy verbals no caveman.

Okay maybe not completely handsoff, abit of incidental touch here and there to build comfort.

Kind of like what ijjjj said in the link you shared,

Set people on fire with your eyes and energy - NOT your hands/tongue/cock etc..
When you engage physically, you will do a lot LESS than expected from your eyes/energy at that point..
All this CONTAINMENT of energy will build and build inside you, until it feels like the very AIR around you is electrified..

This is what 60s mental point of origin seems to be when he says all this;

Have you ever looked at a woman and just knew right away you could get her.
After just a minute of conversation you had no doubt she was coming home with you.

Maybe she looked exactly like a former girlfriend or perhaps you were just feeling really confident that night

How did you act around her? Did you do anything different?

I bet you probably held face contact, got really close to her, and didn’t feel the need to say or do anything special.
In fact, you probably sat back and let her talk most of the time (qualify herself) while you smirked thinking “it’s just a matter of time
The reason this laid back style works so well is because by putting out a seductive vibe you are really just saying “I already know you like me”. And what do you do when you know a woman is already attracted to you.
Exactly, you escalate. And by escalate I mean you should look at her, move into her space, and keep relatively silent.
You don’t worry about saying or doing anything special.
In fact, you may not have realized it at the time but you basically let the sexual tension that exists naturally between men and women do all the work for you.

With what 60 & ijjj said, don't you think 2nd gen verbals esp sex talk gambits etc are the complete opposite of what the two were advocating for i.e shut up and be a sexy quiet mannequin that is constantly moving the interaction forward without doing the most.

But regarding your question, i think 60 would do a better than job than me to answer that @Warped Mindless

Is this him? Would be an honour to see him in these here parts.

60 years of challenge is definitely a must read.
It impacted very positively my early years at a seducer and I am very fond it.

That being said, it is too much of a minimalist approach… in my opinion it lacks some key elements of an advanced seduction (frame control, attainability management, sexual innuendo).

Extremely underatted. He is very incisive in his books and explains things with great clarity.

Maybe I'm misconstruing what he meant but I think he's saying you don't really need all these other extras to get the pull. Kind of similar to an article by Chase where he says that Sex is the most natural thing to do so you don't need all these advanced mental models about state control and what not to make it happen.

I would like to hear about a time when you got the pull despite doing the absolute minimum. What did you do and what was your state like?
How do I replicate that state without looking like a stiff too cool for school guy?

 

[PaulieFlyn10]

Correct me if I'm wrong but this sounds to me like Caveman game or whatever it is Aaron Sleazy used to do to get 5min pulls at the club.

From my understanding of 60 he is completely hands off with girls... no fancy verbals no caveman.

Okay maybe not completely handsoff, abit of incidental touch here and there to build comfort.

Kind of like what ijjjj said in the link you shared,



This is what 60s mental point of origin seems to be when he says all this;




With what 60 & ijjj said, don't you think 2nd gen verbals esp sex talk gambits etc are the complete opposite of what the two were advocating for i.e shut up and be a sexy quiet mannequin that is constantly moving the interaction forward without doing the most.

Is this him? Would be an honour to see him in these here parts.

Extremely underatted. He is very incisive in his books and explains things with great clarity.

Maybe I'm misconstruing what he meant but I think he's saying you don't really need all these other extras to get the pull. Kind of similar to an article by Chase where he says that Sex is the most natural thing to do so you don't need all these advanced mental models about state control and what not to make it happen.

I would like to hear about a time when you got the pull despite doing the absolute minimum. What did you do and what was your state like?
How do I replicate that state without looking like a stiff too cool for school guy?

I love verbal game and @Teevster sex talk posts. It's probably one of the most revolutionary and underrated things out there

Applies massively in dates, day game even online too... not much of a night gamer so can't speak on that

Yeah. That's 60

 

[Skills]

Correct me if I'm wrong but this sounds to me like Caveman game or whatever it is Aaron Sleazy used to do to get 5min pulls at the club.

From my understanding of 60 he is completely hands off with girls... no fancy verbals no caveman.

Okay maybe not completely handsoff, abit of incidental touch here and there to build comfort.

Kind of like what ijjjj said in the link you shared,



This is what 60s mental point of origin seems to be when he says all this;




With what 60 & ijjj said, don't you think 2nd gen verbals esp sex talk gambits etc are the complete opposite of what the two were advocating for i.e shut up and be a sexy quiet mannequin that is constantly moving the interaction forward without doing the most.

Is this him? Would be an honour to see him in these here parts.

Extremely underatted. He is very incisive in his books and explains things with great clarity.

Maybe I'm misconstruing what he meant but I think he's saying you don't really need all these other extras to get the pull. Kind of similar to an article by Chase where he says that Sex is the most natural thing to do so you don't need all these advanced mental models about state control and what not to make it happen.

I would like to hear about a time when you got the pull despite doing the absolute minimum. What did you do and what was your state like?
How do I replicate that state without looking like a stiff too cool for school guy?

Rummors are pelusita and 60yoc were friends and 60 took influence of pelusita, cosy etc.... and no warped mindless is a different poster is not 60, 60 is not in this forum....again 60 is from before 2010, we are in 2023, yes that stuff works, but you will not have the CONTROL of the interactions that adding verbals will give, when i get home i will give a post explaining it better....


Edit.- i confuse pelusita with ijjjji fuck

 

[rr2021 aka DEVENCI]

Aaron Sleazy

i forgot about this guy.

i got coaching from him as well.

just once though.

he is kind of a strange guy these days.

when i spoke to him he seemed to have gone blackpill and basically seemed to think it was all bout looks now.

he also basically said people should NOT try to do what he seemed to be doing in sleazy stories because it would not work for them.

he also has a blog now where he basically just whines and complains about "modern women".

 

[rr2021 aka DEVENCI]

ijjjj

ijjj is a fucking legend.

i spent years trying to get in contact after he was banned from sedfast.

i would pay $1000 for a 1 hour conversation with him.

he is kind of all over the pace sometimes but if you really dig through his posts you will find some absolutely amazing information.

90% of his posts are kind of esoteric and hard to know wtf he is saying but then 10% is like the best info ever in this community.

his stuff about approach anxiety, testosterone, horniness is extremely valuable and he understands that stuff better then literally anyone else ever in the community.

 

[ulrich]

Maybe I'm misconstruing what he meant but I think he's saying you don't really need all these other extras to get the pull. Kind of similar to an article by Chase where he says that Sex is the most natural thing to do so you don't need all these advanced mental models about state control and what not to make it happen.

You don’t “need” them 80% of the time, yet it would be dumb to discard them because there are some things that non-verbal communication just can’t do like reframing interactions.

So you can run interactions that are free of fancy tech and get laid from time to time but you will be losing plenty of opportunities too.
And good luck trying to come up with any kind of consistency with weak verbals.

Again, the point of this discussion (and 60’s main point) is not to discard verbals… it is that non-verbals (appearance, vibe, confidence) have a higher weight and should be prioritized.

I would like to hear about a time when you got the pull despite doing the absolute minimum. What did you do and what was your state like?
How do I replicate that state without looking like a stiff too cool for school guy?

Never have I lived something like that.

Of all the women I have gotten results with, I cannot say there was even one of them where I didn’t have to at least reframe something, solve an objection or come up with a witty response.

 

[Teevster]

Rummors are ijjjjji and 60yoc were friends and 60 took influence of ijjjjji, cosy etc.... and no warped mindless is a different poster is not 60, 60 is not in this forum....again 60 is from before 2010, we are in 2023, yes that stuff works, but you will not have the CONTROL of the interactions that adding verbals will give, when i get home i will give a post explaining it better....

60 is an amazing guy! I have spoken with him so many times. He was basically around during an era where physical game (not the "just escalate bro" BS, but real advanced physical game), and especially the emphasis on sexual tension was becoming very trendy.

There were a few people that were deeply into that whole trend:

- PerfectMoxie
- TheLetter
- 60_Years_of_Challenge
- Kinethi[c]harm (a norwegian physical game legend)
- Sleazy (RIP)

I also personally jumped on the bandwagon - I was deeply into sexual tension and all that. I even came up with the concepts of mutual escalation (which 60 loved) and the concept of "tension level/tension breaks inspired by 60. I do not consider myself on the the key guys, but I did contribute some myself. I was also friend with most if not all the key guys behind this school of seduction - knowing many of them personally.

-Teevster

 

[Teevster]

i forgot about this guy.

i got coaching from him as well.

just once though.

he is kind of a strange guy these days.

when i spoke to him he seemed to have gone blackpill and basically seemed to think it was all bout looks now.

he also basically said people should NOT try to do what he seemed to be doing in sleazy stories because it would not work for them.

he also has a blog now where he basically just whines and complains about "modern women".

Aaron Sleazy, when still active, and purely focused on seduction, was one of the smoothest and best physical gamers out there.

He was always strange, but back in the days it was in a good way. I lost contact with him after he got a bit too anti-game and eventually lost all contact once he turned black pill. It is a shame though, as he is a cool and very intelligent guy.

For your own curiosity, here is a field report from 2009 of he and I heading out together. Ah good times!

(PS: I am TVA - i.e. TVA_Oslo, my old mASF user).

-Teevster

 

[Teevster]

I love verbal game and @Teevster sex talk posts. It's probably one of the most revolutionary and underrated things out there

Applies massively in dates, day game even online too... not much of a night gamer so can't speak on that

Yeah. That's 60

Thanks man! Much appreciated. It has been around since 2009 ish though so I did have a few years to refine it.

And yes it totally works well on dates - I'd say it works easily and very well on dates.

-Teevster

 

[Teevster]

Correct me if I'm wrong but this sounds to me like Caveman game or whatever it is Aaron Sleazy used to do to get 5min pulls at the club.

I would not call Sleazy's old game "caveman" style. He was incredibly calibrated (never seen him get a harsh rejection EVER), focused tons of screening, timings, as well as many different ways to touch, isolate, and funky escalation patterns/techniques.

How do I know? We used to be wings.

-Teevster

 

[rr2021 aka DEVENCI]

- PerfectMoxie
- TheLetter
- 60_Years_of_Challenge
- Kinethi[c]harm (a norwegian physical game legend)
- Sleazy (RIP)

do these guys have any books,posts,courses i can find anywhere?

im talking about the other other guys excluding 60 and sleazy.

 

[Teevster]

Again, the point of this discussion (and 60’s main point) is not to discard verbals… it is that non-verbals (appearance, vibe, confidence) have a higher weight and should be prioritized.

He did say that verbals kills the sexual tension, but he always added a caveat: "unless you are TVA_Oslo (me) and run sex talk (nobody was doing that back then - aside from perhaps Sinn and CJ who focused on sexual framing, and perhaps in10se, although both did things differently).

-Teevster

 

[rr2021 aka DEVENCI]

We used to be wings.

what are your thoughts on my theory that Sleazy success was mainly due to his amazing ability to get on sexual state in nightclubs that he had because of his decades of meditation.

after reading sleazy stories i spent months trying to lean that style and this led me to a a guy who used to be called illuminatus on sedfast

this guy had gamed with sleazy and told me that sleazy succcess was his ability to get in sexual state in the club.

and this made sense because in almost all the sleazy stories he always talks about how he would see the girl, get in sexual state and AFTER that make his physical approach.

and you yourself in your dancefloor series talked about how super important being horny is for such physical game.

so do you agree this was sleazy's secret to success with physical style?

 

[Teevster]

do these guys have any books,posts,courses i can find anywhere?

im talking about the other other guys excluding 60 and sleazy.

No

Many great contributors don't make products because most are "pu-practitioners", not coaches!

-Teevster