Seduction Fog of War

[Chase]

In battle there's a concept called the 'fog of war', referring to the lack of knowledge or even misbelief/misunderstanding about what's going on elsewhere on the battlefield, on the war front, or behind enemy lines.

For instance, you might be winning in your part of the battle, even as your side's battle lines are collapsing everywhere else (but you don't realize this and assume your side is victorious all over). Or you might think yourself and the enemy are evenly matched but in fact the enemy is very close to losing its resolve and crumbling. Opponents will also try to intimidate one another, puff themselves up, try to seem scary and invincible to confuse or demoralize the adversary, etc.

There's a "fog of war" in seduction, too, that covers all the things you do not know about a girl and her situation:


Basic stuff:

• Does she have a boyfriend who's going to appear and jump in when you talk to her?
• Is she in a hurry and will run off as soon as the light changes / train stops / her drink order is ready / etc.?
• Are there friends you don't see who will intervene if they notice you chatting her up?

A lot of this you can get decent at sniffing out with a bit of field experience. But you may still be surprised sometimes.


Less obvious stuff:

• Non-social venues: Was she hoping to meet someone today? Or was she hoping to be left alone today?
• Social venues: Is she horny and ovulating? Or is she out because her friends dragged her out?
• Does she have logistical issues that will hinder or prevent her staying long or hooking up?
• Is she seeing or "talking to" someone that will cause her to put the brakes on anything with you?
• Has she resolved to either a.) hook up with the next passable guy she gets a chance to or, in contrast, b.) quit hooking up?

The less obvious stuff tends to be stuff that is "in her head" and is much less outwardly visible.

Often, you will not know it at all unless you specifically ask about it / screen for it (e.g., with logistics screening).


OPERATING IN THE FOG OF WAR

The brute force approach to dealing with seduction fog of war is to compliance test.

Just ask for compliance, see if she goes along with it, then continue escalating compliance and see how far you get.

The more compliant she is, the more things are in your favor, and the more confident you can be there are no major things hidden in the fog of war that will hamper you with her. The less compliant she is, the more likely it is there are things hidden in the fog of war that you can't see but are retarding your progress.

The more finessed approach is to start working to clear the fog of war so you can figure out what a girl's deal is and where the obstacles or points of resistance are (then, ideally, clear them.)

Logistics screening is one most guys here will be familiar with.

Her reason for being there is less obvious. I had a client out with a wingman who met two girls. One (the one his wingman matched up with) was clearly very into it and on the prowl. The other was rather closed off. They talked and the conversation was fine, but the girl never really got into it. What you see fairly often with the "horny girl + blasé girl" is that the one girl was horny and wanted to go out, so she dragged out her other friend out to not have to go out alone.

When you find yourself with the 'probably dragged out one' and you're not getting it to click with her, try asking, "So what's your deal? She drag you out tonight? You wanted to be back home reading Pride & Prejudice, yet here you are?" Calling out the "girl who doesn't completely want to be there" on it in a chill way often gets her opening up, and now you know what her situation is; she feels like someone in the venue actually gets her; and you can start figuring out whether there's something you can work with there or not.

A bit of the fog of war is then lifted.

Often it is not practical to try to lift every bit of fog, and instead you will just fall back on compliance testing to feel out a girl's willingness & availability.

However, if you're really keen on some girl who's not as compliant as you'd like, or if you're in some situation where there are only a limited quantity of women available and you can't as easily jump from girl to girl (or, like that client, where you're stuck with a girl because your wingman is working her friend), it can make sense to start probing around a bit and see if you can lift some of the seduction fog of war.

Chase

 

[Ratata]

I always used to react badly to girls giving me the I Have A Boyfriend (IHABF) line, even when they did it politely. I'd try to hide it, but I'd still feel my face physically change from it, meaning that I also knew that she knew at that moment.

This irked me, and made me feel like a loser. Like, not a big loser, but someone who was caught, and then had to endure a small loss. Like when you fire off a charge at the enemy, but then end up in a worse situation then you were in before. It's literally a loss of face, and now you have a little less value in the eyes of your "opponents".

(Small aside here: If you're getting IHABF as a hard rejection, it's because you're acting needy, so then rather fix that than trying to save face. You'll get a lot less IHABF rejections when you fix your neediness problem. What I'm talking about here is when the girl says IHABF in passing or during a casual chat-up.)

The fix to this - at least in my experience - is very much akin to your analogy of the fog of war: You simply prepare for it. Well, you're obviously not preparing for failure, but you're preparing to handle the fact that she already has a bf in a smooth way.

These days I assume that all women have a bf. When I meet a new girl, especially if she's pretty, I'll just assume that she already has a bf. You could say that it's my little cope, but it works for me.

Even though she's already got a bf, it doesn't mean that she's in a happy relationship, though. Or that she's not open to an ... adventure. But the fact that she's polite with you in the first place, is because she's giving you the chance to replace him (cue monkey branching theory). The only question is for how long, and for how much sex. Which means that, since you're already assuming that she's got a bf before you even interact with her, you also already have the upper hand. In short, it gives you options.

You can probe or test for it. "What does your bf think of you talking to strangers in the bar?" Check reaction.

It will reveal if it's worth going forward. And as we all know, even if she's got a bf, it's often still worth going forward. I mean, you're not there to limit your options by only talking to the "available" ones, after all. Meanwhile you're also giving options to those who want out of their old relationship (even if just briefly). Think monkey branching here. If monkey branching exists, then you're the one losing if you view a bf as a real obstacle (this is real game theory btw, the scientific one). When done right, IHABF is usually just her way of saying "Look, we'll have to be discrete, ok."

What I'll also make a note of is if I talk casually to some girl, and she never mentions her bf at all. A girl not mentioning her bf is important too. Again, especially if she's very hot or pretty. She did that for a reason.

I can't remember how many times I've gotten hot and heavy with a girl, and we're either making out on the couch, or on our way to the bedroom, when she suddenly stops, smiles coyly, and goes "But I have a bf..." (Hell, I've had girls lunge at me and kiss me and then go "wtf did I just do, IHABF!")

But most importantly, by making this assumption, I no longer have a loss of face, I no longer get phased, when a girl says to me that she's got a bf.

Yesterday I met this super-hot woman, and we had a very nice chat. Out of the blue I decided to say "That's so cool! We should get married." Obviously not because I actually want to get married with her lol, but to probe how far she's willing to go, while also flirting a bit. The answer? "Haha, but I'm already married! Look!" She showed me her ring. "I also have a child." The retort: "Oh, then we'll have to be discrete." (Big grin.) Reaction: Laugh, shoulder hit, and a bit of blushing. And more importantly: No loss of face on my part. Just vibing and winning.

 

[Chase]

Good stuff, @Ratata.

The fix to this - at least in my experience - is very much akin to your analogy of the fog of war: You simply prepare for it. Well, you're obviously not preparing for failure, but you're preparing to handle the fact that she already has a bf in a smooth way.

You can probe or test for it. "What does your bf think of you talking to strangers in the bar?" Check reaction.

But most importantly, by making this assumption, I no longer have a loss of face, I no longer get phased, when a girl says to me that she's got a bf.

Yesterday I met this super-hot woman, and we had a very nice chat. Out of the blue I decided to say "That's so cool! We should get married." Obviously not because I actually want to get married with her lol, but to probe how far she's willing to go, while also flirting a bit. The answer? "Haha, but I'm already married! Look!" She showed me her ring. "I also have a child." The retort: "Oh, then we'll have to be discrete." (Big grin.) Reaction: Laugh, shoulder hit, and a bit of blushing. And more importantly: No loss of face on my part. Just vibing and winning.

This is a nice mix of releasing your attachment to the outcome in a fog of war situation + probing to remove some of the fog.

We could say those are the two keys to dealing with seduction fog of war correctly:

1. Detach yourself from outcome expectations so you aren't set back emotionally by surprises from the fog of war
   
   
2. Test and probe as a way of clearing away some of that fog of war

One to manage your internal state, one to remove the fog and get more usable information.