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Seduction Isn't A Piggy Bank, Probability, or Menial Labor

Will_V

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I’ve noticed recently a bunch of field reports and journals where guys are going out to daygame and struggling, so I felt compelled to write a few words on my point of view about one key mistake I believe is being made.

I’m not calling out anyone here, it takes a lot of balls to go out and approach, and without these field reports it would be hard to see where the issue is. So this isn’t a slight on anyone who’s going out and genuinely trying their best to get good results. I hope this post helps you make the adjustment you need.

Game Is Elite Social Skills

If you don’t have good social skills already, seduction is going to be extremely difficult. You’re walking up to complete strangers, getting their attention, introducing yourself, and creating a conversation (and hopefully a lot more!) out of nothing. She’s doing whatever she’s doing, and she wasn’t expecting to meet you at all.

This is an order of magnitude of difficulty above going to a party and talking to the people there. At least at the party, there is context: you’re all there for the party, you’re all in the mode of being social and have a good time, and you all probably know eachother vaguely or at least have some mutual connections.

And going to a party is an order of magnitude of difficulty above going to meet your buddies and hang out. With your buddies, you already know eachother well, there’s no awkwardness of meeting someone new, and you’re all compatible or you probably wouldn’t be buddies in the first place.

So here we have it: daygame is two orders of magnitude of difficulty above hanging out with your buddies. That’s a lot. And you know what that means: if you don’t have much of a social life – or any social life at all – it’s going to be rough to go to a party and meet new people. And it’s going to be very rough to go out and daygame.

Take a few seconds to review your social life: do you have a decent social life in general? If not, fix that. Do you have parties or events you go to semi-regularly that give you contextual socializing with new people or people you don’t often meet? If not, fix that.

I really hesitate to say "fix that first", because I don’t like to tell someone they should hold off on learning something valuable like seduction. But that’s kind of what I’m saying. If you don’t have the fundamentals of socializing down, or you're not actively building on your social skills in general, you’re going to get banged around real hard and go through a lot of unnecessary rejections in daygame.

“But I want to be that guy who managed to seduce a 10/10 while living under a bridge and having no social life!” you might say. Well my friend, if that’s what you want to do, go right ahead. But think of it like this: if you aren’t interested in (or capable of) developing a wider social life, what makes you think you would be the sort of person who can enjoy going up to girls and being exceptionally, er, SOCIAL?

Because that’s what seduction is, it’s 80% social skills with a thin layer of seduction on top. Game isn’t some kind of shortcut that bypasses social skills, it is social skills. Meeting someone sans context without creating friction, building rapport, being interesting and fun, making the other person feel interesting and fun, pacing and leading the interaction, that’s all social skills. If you can do it with random girls, you can do it with anyone. And if you can’t do it with anyone, you won’t be able to do it with random girls.

Seduction Is Not A Piggy Bank, Probability, Or Menial Labor

If you put 20c in your piggy bank every day for 365 days, at the end of the year, sure as that piggy is pink, you’ll have $73. And if you pull the lever on a slot machine enough times, you can be absolutely sure of a certain number of wins (assuming the machine isn’t rigged!).

Seduction is neither of those things. The only thing you can be sure about is that if you don’t do it well enough, you won’t get dates and you won’t get laid.

Imagine if you had a smashed up TV and walked around trying to sell it at a 25% discount from the RRP. No matter how many people you go to, you won't get any takers. That's what it's like doing seduction with smashed up social skills.

“But if I keep going out and banging my head on the wall” you might say, “surely there’ll be some girl that is just dtf and not really scrupulous?”

Maybe, maybe there will. But you know what also happens when you bang your head against the wall all the time? Your head gets sore. And your expression gets sore. And your spirit gets sore. And probably by the time you meet her, everything is too sore to be able to engage her minimum threshold of feelgoodness, she doesn’t really enjoy being around you, and she decides not to go home with you. And even if she does go home with you, you’re going to struggle to enjoy yourself and perform.

Seduction is not a piggy bank, it’s not probability, and it’s not menial labor that you perform to try and stay ahead of the economic collapse of your sex life. It’s seduction.

That’s interesting, let’s look at the word a little bit more closely. What does it mean? According to google, it involves enticing or powerfully attracting someone, in a sexual context.

What does it mean to entice? Enticing means, according to google, “to attract or tempt by offering pleasure or advantage.”

So, seduction involves an offer. An offer that includes pleasure or advantage.

What is your initial offer, before you get to the bedroom? Do you know how to (or have some idea of how you are going to) create pleasure in her during the approach? What immediate advantage do you believe she has in meeting you? Remember, seduction is not about sex, not at the beginning. It is about what you are offering to her simply by meeting you.

And here's a hint: no, your offer is not being six-foot tall, making six figures, and having a six-pack, like those youtube nerds bang on about. Your initial offer is the wonderful, pleasurable experience you can give her with your social skills.

Social Skills In Seduction

As I’ve already mentioned, seduction is majority social skills, painted with a thin layer of sexual framing, and with a basic plan of how to get to the bedroom tacked on top. But what sort of social skills exactly?

Let’s think about approaching from her perspective. What is a good context, in her view, for the sort of guy she wants to meet to approach her?

Maybe he’s walking along, enjoying himself and his already very busy, satisfying, and fun life. He doesn’t need women, he’s already got a few chasing him but none of them really float his boat. He wants to meet a more fun, interesting, and unique girl. Then, suddenly, he sees her. Her appearance and the way she moves charms him, and he feels the spontaneous desire to meet her, to make contact, to find out more about her. Now, how will that guy look as he walks up to her? He’s going to look happy, at ease, and expressing delight, enjoyment, and curiosity.

Now let’s say there’s a guy who has no social life, no parties to go to, isn’t happy with his career or his life in general, has approached 300 girls in the last month without getting laid, can’t remember the last time he enjoyed himself meeting a girl, and is walking up with the clenched demeanour of a man who is about to stubbornly receive his 301st lash of the whip. How will this guy look as he walks up to her?

It doesn’t matter how much the second guy tries to pretend he’s the first one, she will see it written all over his face. You can’t make a beaten dog look happy, it’s all there in the hollow eyes, the listless expression, and the hunch of the shoulders.

“But what if I’ve tried 300 times with no success so far?” you might say. “Should I just give up?”.

No, you shouldn’t give up. But what you need to do, as a matter of priority, is figure out a way to have successful social interactions, even if you don’t manage to seduce her. Because 300 successful social interactions feels good. You might be horny and not getting laid, but you won’t feel like every approach is another beatdown, you won’t experience women running away from you or calling the police or their brothers on you. You will be getting through the door and to the meat of the interaction, where the opportunity for an actual seduction exists, rather than having the door slammed shut in your face.

Because if a social interaction cannot take place, a seduction cannot take place. Daygame isn’t stumbling around outside the club at 4am with the uber app ready on your phone. It’s a context in which you have to build substantially more social value than sexual value.

How To Build Social Skills

Go to meetups. Go to events. If any of your friends know of any parties, get invited. Do dance or yoga classes. I'm sure you can think of a lot more.

And when you’re there, meet as many people as you can. Guys, girls – social skills are transferrable. Learn how to make a pleasant, positive introduction. Learn how to engage someone. Learn how to be interesting and fun, and how to make someone else feel interesting and fun.

When you learn to do that, virtually every approach you make in daygame can be just as positive, pleasant, and easygoing – sure there will be the odd girl in a bad mood who’s looking for something to scratch, but that’s all part of the fun. And then, with sexual framing, teasing, leading, and escalation, you can turn them from fun social encounters to fun sexual encounters.

And this works because your initial offer – your offer to experience the pleasure of your social skills – is good, she feels pleasure being with you and talking with you, and you are a successful social animal in your domain, not a wandering derelict. So even if she has a boyfriend or whatever, it's a pleasurable, enhancing experience for both of you.

Every good seducer is exceptionally socially successful, or has the capability to be. Look at Cassanova for example – everywhere he went, he built social connections, with people at all levels of society. When he got exiled to another country for being a naughty boy, he’d build it all over again. That’s how he created the access and the opportunities with the women he wanted, and his social skills were the foundation of his seduction skills.

When you practice your social skills a lot, when it becomes a part of your identity to be a successful social animal, you start dressing better, you start managing your posture, your facial expression, your state of mind, it becomes part of your nature to present your best and most pleasant and attractive self at all times.

You start to think about people and how they experience you, what you can offer them, and how you can give them things they really want – even small things that at first seem insignificant.

And you realize perhaps the most fundamental social skill – that if you don’t thoroughly enjoy being yourself and living the life you live, you should not expect other people – much less women who will become very intimate with you and your life – to want any part of it either.

But if you try to circumvent all this to go spam approaching, sweeping glaring problems under the carpet and hoping to use a few seduction tactics and the sheer weight of numbers to get some results, you’ll end up wasting huge amounts of time, training yourself to experience seduction as a brutal grind of rejection after rejection, and probably not getting anything like the results you hoped for.

So go and build those social skills in every way you can – they will not only be of immense value in seduction, but in every other part of your life as well. They will massively expedite the conversion of effort into results, because once social interactions are easy for you, turning them sexual is only a matter of showing another side of yourself as well. And you'll enjoy the whole process so much more, regardless of the outcome.

Best of luck!
 

James D

Modern Human
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GOATed post.

once social interactions are easy for you, turning them sexual is only a matter of showing another side of yourself as well.
Gold.
 
you miss 100% of the shots you don't take

Atlas IV

Cro-Magnon Man
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What is your initial offer, before you get to the bedroom? Do you know how to (or have some idea of how you are going to) create pleasure in her during the approach? What immediate advantage do you believe she has in meeting you? Remember, seduction is not about sex, not at the beginning. It is about what you are offering to her simply by meeting you.

And here's a hint: no, your offer is not being six-foot tall, making six figures, and having a six-pack, like those youtube nerds bang on about. Your initial offer is the wonderful, pleasurable experience you can give her with your social skills.
Epic post! This is a really interesting point that makes me think of the crossover between seduction and business.

To expand on this analogy for a moment, I imagine the girl is like a customer and the product you are selling is an experience she rarely gets (a fun time with socially calibrated man who can fulfil her sexual fantasies). You want to demonstrate to her that you are that guy (like the pitch), and let her imagination run wild with the product.

Much like how a sports car commercial makes you imagine yourself driving it and desire having it in your life without telling you directly "YOU NEED THIS CAR", the girl imagines having wonderful experiences with you based on your social skills, nonverbals, and sex talk (game).

I've often wondered whether expert salesmen could be naturally effective seducers, and vice versa. Surely salesmen have a big head-start in terms of social skills and persuasion. Then again, perhaps it's not exactly the same kind of social skills as we need for seduction (which would explain why I've met plenty of socially awkward/boring salesmen).
 

DarkKnight

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I agree.. mostly but I also want to add that the younger guys can get away with much more rough game. It is kind of expected. I put in absolute shit game (😂😂 hindsight is such a bitch) but still got girls some very hot ones at that.

But as I got older, got less naturally in proximity of babes I needed to use more sophistication. Basically after graduation.

My personal view and I am pretty sure we will all differ in approach which is fine: I believe the best way at going at it is continously by doing, even when other areas in your life is not settled yet, but returning to the boards for post mortems.

Whether we want to or not, this stuff is quite some grind. Plus the guys who already have a big social circle also tend to have a lot of ego. They become dependent on their circles and "who they are"

the guys who start from cold approach, build social skills from there become very good leaders and can build their own social cirkels.

I think I differ in this regard because wel all have had different life trajectories. So it is not about who is right or wrong

More than one road to Rome
 

Will_V

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Epic post! This is a really interesting point that makes me think of the crossover between seduction and business.

There is a lot of crossover between seduction and sales. Chase wrote an interesting article on the subject here.

I've never done sales myself (though I've done some ads/marketing for my businesses), but I know enough about it to see the similarities.

To expand on this analogy for a moment, I imagine the girl is like a customer and the product you are selling is an experience she rarely gets (a fun time with socially calibrated man who can fulfil her sexual fantasies). You want to demonstrate to her that you are that guy (like the pitch), and let her imagination run wild with the product.

Pretty much. Yes you want her imagination to run ahead, but the way I see it, she is experiencing the product from the moment you make the approach. Everything you do with her is an abstract sexual experience.

When you think about the act of sex, there are some aspects like:

- Taking initiative and leading/guiding her
- Talking to her in an warm, authoritative way
- Having a firm and consistent rhythm to your stimulation of her, and not being nervous.
- Showing attentiveness to what she's feeling, and adjusting to it
- Stimulating her whole body in different ways and not getting laser focused on one thing
- Teasing her in advance of something you're about to do with her
- Increasing the intensity of stimulation over time

All these things are as much a part of sex as they are a part of how you talk to her, how you kiss her, how you touch her, how you move her, etc. Each phase of the seduction has its own experience of all these aspects. For example:

- When you move her, you are taking initiative and leading/guiding her, the same way you'd tell her to get in this or that position during sex.
- When you tease her or put pressure on her to qualify to you, you are assuming a warm, authoritative frame, the same way you'd talk to her during foreplay or sex.
- When you speak to her with a calm, deep, steady voice, you are stimulating her in a rhythmic way, the same way you'd use your cock.
- When she signals that she's uncomfortable or confused and you adjust what you're saying/doing without backing off completely, you're showing attentiveness, the same way you'd adjust what you were doing during sex if she wasn't comfortable.
- When you're talking to her and you touch her arm, then a bit later her leg, then you lean in and put your hand on the small of her back and simultaneously breathe on her neck, you're stimulating her in a variety of ways, the same way you'd do during foreplay or sex.
- When you hold off the kiss when she clearly wants it, it's the same as when you tease her with your cock before putting it in.
- As you escalate your touch and sexual framing smoothly during the date, you're increasing the intensity of stimulation, the same way you'd do it during foreplay/sex.

So by the time a woman is on your bed and it's on, she knows it's going to be good, because of all the mini-experiences you've already given her. And of course it's part of why she's there to begin with.

You have many instruments of effect you can use to arouse her and give her mini-sexual experiences from the get-go - your voice, words, and eye contact when you first say hello, your hands as you touch, caress, and guide her, your lips as you kiss her, your cock when you take her. They are on different levels of intensity, but they all act upon her mind and body to give her pleasure, open her up, and prepare her for the next level of stimulation.

Social skills are especially important for establishing trust, comfort, and rapport at the start and throughout the date, so that at every stage she's comfortable to relax into each experience as it comes along. Otherwise she'll never let a guy get close enough to do his thing.

Much like how a sports car commercial makes you imagine yourself driving it and desire having it in your life without telling you directly "YOU NEED THIS CAR", the girl imagines having wonderful experiences with you based on your social skills, nonverbals, and sex talk (game).

I think women spontaneously experience arousal when a guy has all that locked down, it's not so much that she's thinking "I have to drive this car" it's more like "this car already feels good, I want to be closer to it".

I've often wondered whether expert salesmen could be naturally effective seducers, and vice versa. Surely salesmen have a big head-start in terms of social skills and persuasion. Then again, perhaps it's not exactly the same kind of social skills as we need for seduction (which would explain why I've met plenty of socially awkward/boring salesmen).

I mean, there's sales gurus on youtube who would clearly be poor seducers.

I think the principles of sales are the same, but the execution and calibration is entirely different. In seduction, you're selling yourself - your effect is the product. So you can never really reference the product directly, but you still have to sell it, by demonstrating it in everything you do and in every moment she's with you, so that she wants more of it.
 

Will_V

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I agree.. mostly but I also want to add that the younger guys can get away with much more rough game. It is kind of expected. I put in absolute shit game (😂😂 hindsight is such a bitch) but still got girls some very hot ones at that.

But as I got older, got less naturally in proximity of babes I needed to use more sophistication. Basically after graduation.

My personal view and I am pretty sure we will all differ in approach which is fine: I believe the best way at going at it is continously by doing, even when other areas in your life is not settled yet, but returning to the boards for post mortems.

Whether we want to or not, this stuff is quite some grind. Plus the guys who already have a big social circle also tend to have a lot of ego. They become dependent on their circles and "who they are"

the guys who start from cold approach, build social skills from there become very good leaders and can build their own social cirkels.

I think I differ in this regard because wel all have had different life trajectories. So it is not about who is right or wrong

More than one road to Rome
Sure, this is mainly about daygame, where there is zero sexual context to begin with. Nightgame in general, student parties and that sort of stuff are going to be much more about stimulation and excitement than social skills. And younger girls don't always need a whole lot of calibration if there's a vibe.

The post is really directed at guys who are going out in the day and having a difficult time not getting rejected outright or flatlining things within the first few minutes, and maybe don't see the reality of where their social skills are at. Making a great first impression, managing state, and establishing fast rapport, over and over again, takes skill, self-control, and on-the-fly calibration, a lot of the basis of which can be learned more effectively in other kinds of social interactions.

If a guy is depressed or unhappy in his life in general, and is unable to maintain a social life, he's really not going to be able to handle the emotional workload of making lots of approaches. Especially if he literally suffers while doing them, his ability to make a positive offer of himself is virtually impossible.

The bottom line is that if girls consistently shut you down right away, move away from you, or are immediately just giving you the bare minimum of politeness, it's not because you didn't do this or that tactic, it's because you're not doing a good job of meeting people in general. It's not that hard to be a guy that other people are happy to meet, that's where social skills come in.
 

Atlas IV

Cro-Magnon Man
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Each phase of the seduction has its own experience of all these aspects. For example:

- When you move her, you are taking initiative and leading/guiding her, the same way you'd tell her to get in this or that position during sex.
- When you tease her or put pressure on her to qualify to you, you are assuming a warm, authoritative frame, the same way you'd talk to her during foreplay or sex.
- When you speak to her with a calm, deep, steady voice, you are stimulating her in a rhythmic way, the same way you'd use your cock.
- When she signals that she's uncomfortable or confused and you adjust what you're saying/doing without backing off completely, you're showing attentiveness, the same way you'd adjust what you were doing during sex if she wasn't comfortable.
- When you're talking to her and you touch her arm, then a bit later her leg, then you lean in and put your hand on the small of her back and simultaneously breathe on her neck, you're stimulating her in a variety of ways, the same way you'd do during foreplay or sex.
- When you hold off the kiss when she clearly wants it, it's the same as when you tease her with your cock before putting it in.
- As you escalate your touch and sexual framing smoothly during the date, you're increasing the intensity of stimulation, the same way you'd do it during foreplay/sex.

So by the time a woman is on your bed and it's on, she knows it's going to be good, because of all the mini-experiences you've already given her. And of course it's part of why she's there to begin with.

You have many instruments of effect you can use to arouse her and give her mini-sexual experiences from the get-go - your voice, words, and eye contact when you first say hello, your hands as you touch, caress, and guide her, your lips as you kiss her, your cock when you take her. They are on different levels of intensity, but they all act upon her mind and body to give her pleasure, open her up, and prepare her for the next level of stimulation.
Wow, I never thought of these connections before. "Mini-sexual experiences" - that's a great way to think about your actions when doing cold approach. In an abstract sense, you're already beginning the foreplay to sex when you meet her on the street!
 

Stark

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Messages
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What immediate advantage do you believe she has in meeting you? It is about what you are offering to her simply by meeting you.

Your initial offer is the wonderful, pleasurable experience you can give her with your social skills.

I say something similiar to myself while out for daygame - 'Approaching is about mad social confidence - everything follows from there'.

Social savviness intrigues her - in those first 30 seconds of interaction, especially daygame.

"this car already feels good, I want to be closer to it".

From Mad Men - 'Women want any excuse to get closer' - many forget that packaging(social skills) is what draws her in the first place though, not the product itself.

--

Joining hiking groups and meetups saved my life while learning cold approach daygame a decade ago. Most of my conversation material came from exciting stories of adventure and spirituality from those experiences.

She feels pleasure being with you and talking with you, and you are a successful social animal in your domain, not a wandering derelict. So even if she has a boyfriend or whatever, it's a pleasurable, enhancing experience for both of you.

That's the self-ideal to shoot for. He radiates a positive, sexual vibe and transfers it to the woman he's talking to - she absorbs this energy and is drawn to him

He doesn’t need women, he’s already got a few chasing him. He wants to meet a more fun, interesting, and unique girl. Her appearance and the way she moves charms him, and he feels the spontaneous desire to meet her. Now, how will that guy look as he walks up to her?

He’s going to look happy, at ease, and expressing delight, enjoyment, and curiosity.

I'm going to re-read this once in a while, Excellent post.
 

SlayerCJ82

Space Monkey
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Very interesting post, with some well made points. I’d disagree you have to fix every other area of social skills though. If a guy wants to succeed as a seducer he can purely hone in on this area alone. Ie talking to chicks. He could feasible for this by hanging out at Starbucks all day and night every single day if he had the time. And just use 1 single location to build his skill at talking to women (and men also). This is pretty much how ‘Naturals’ organically do it in their teenage years . I mean guys that are not ‘Chads’ in looks ( who never had to learn much beyond escalate anything anyway).

they are either street-hustler types from lower socio economic backgrounds OR rich kids with plenty time and money to do so. The key element is Time To Do So. Lots of spare time is a big driver/lever.

a guy could spend all of his time in one busy Starbucks chatting to women throughout the day and working a game plan ABCDE. from some kind of indirect approach to getting the chick into a location for sex.

this is really how it’s done not mass cold approaching everywhere before the skill has been learned properly,

it’s pretty much all small talk, Indirect stuff firstly, moving into flirting and comfort building then moving into seduction. As per mystery method - he laid it all out and codified the whole thing step by step imo. Great method 👍

It can take 4 hours and a few bounces to begin with. Then it can be boiled down to short timeframes and finally very quick seductions.

that’s how it’s learned to me from my experience and watching players in action.

to me it’s basically salesmanship/ aka ‘hustling’.

there is a strong parallel between good salesmanship and good seduction. Period.

a good could be a great seducer and this will spill out into other areas of his social life . But he needs to be mindful in wider social groups others will observe him to be “sleazy” using the same game in a bigger social context. Gotta tone it down in those situations as others are always watching.

Hope that helps newbies.
 

SlayerCJ82

Space Monkey
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Joined
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Messages
61
Where I’m from there are older words to describe a seducer which are still relevant and not used today post PUA/ Pickup/Game which may be helpful in getting a feel for it for new guys.

the main one imo is “ Charmer”

“you’re a charmer / you’re such a charmer “
Is one I used to hear girls use a lot to me . If you hear that you are definitely on the right track 😉 ( I’m an old Bull now btw)

this word and idea may be useful.

definition


Dictionary
Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more


noun
  1. a person with an attractive and engaging personality, typically one who uses this to impress or manipulateothers

note the word “ manipulate” 😉

The game / pickup/seduction is really in its longer form “ The Game ( Of manipulation) that’s what’s happening. it seems a bit lost in translation these days /unclear now rhere have been so many iterations of “Game” used and sold

also note the definition of “Suave”
Always head to the dictionary for these words to understand their true older meaning,

Dictionary

Suave
*charming, polite

adjective. Someone who is suave is charming, polite, and elegant, *but may be insincere*. He is a suave, cool and cultured man. Synonyms: smooth, charming, urbane, debonair More Synonyms of suave.

Note - may be insincere

this is the most important - when u are ‘gaming’ (charming) a chick be * obviously* insincere
Give her a wink and a cheeky smile when u deliver whatever ur saying. You are telling her “ I know this is bullshit 😉 “ - if she is game for it she will smile back and signal to you “ yes I understand this , but keep going as I am enjoying it “

it’s all indirect and subtext stuff.
All game/ pickup/ seduction should really be done indirectly at the subtext level .
The “spell” of the Charmer is never broken if it’s never spoken of or pointed out directly. Especially in day gaming.

night gaming it can be stated but in funny ways
 

SlayerCJ82

Space Monkey
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Note the asterisks * * on the important points below re morals, inadvisable/foolhardy and unwary targets.

Dictionary


seducer
noun
  1. a person who entices someone into sexual activity.
    "a serial seducer *with no moral compass*
    • a person who entices someone to *do or believe something inadvisable or foolhardy.*
      noun: seducer; plural noun: seducers
      *"seducers of the unwary*

 

POB

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Great insights @Will_V
Some small add-ons:
- the coup d'état is when approaching becomes fun, and you can do it on demand...takes some time oc, but when it is a social activity you enjoy, it's even laughable how easy it is to meet new people out of the blue (even if you are an introvert like myself)
- naturals tend to be super calibrated at social interactions...that's because they can either follow the rules, or deliberately break them when it's convenient for them.
 

SlayerCJ82

Space Monkey
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Messages
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Every seducer I’ve ever met IRL ( v successful guys) have bags of these qualities .

they can give the impression of appearing very insincere and fake upon meeting them.
They ooze “ the shmooze”.
Shmoozers and charmers all. And very successful - because charming and ‘shmoozing’ is high level / social art, and women LOVE it and respect it.

In many ways it’s an “honest signal “ going back to that theory . As it takes time and effort to learn to do it well.

there was some old old seducer of yore who used to say

“ give me 5 minutes to talk away my ugly face and I will bed the Queen Of France “

it’s that old idea of charming and seducing is the real Art. Read Robert Greenes book over a period ( it’s massive ) to really bed down the old classic seducer mindset.
 

SlayerCJ82

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In my mind a copy of Mystery’s original book and a *lot* of time to hang out in a busy coffee shop and practice is all that is required . Run his steps ABC and get a feel for it day after day. Within a couple weeks to a few months a guy ought to be up and running and have it down automatic and instinctual.
I’d love to train with Erik I reckon he’d be great to watch in action in person.

don’t know why he doesn’t pull more in his infield videos tho .. that is the real ‘ mystery’ to me. He’s 6.5” tall and still decent looking and knows how charm very well. Maybe he’s aiming too young with his ‘targets’ 🤷🏻‍♂️
 

orkie123

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Awesome post.

The way I view social skills helping in seduction is through:

1) Curiosity about people. Being present and attentive to figure out what excites people and focusing on that and less on what doesn't. This is why game is impacted by momentum, exposure, and mood. You may know exactly what to do for each situation, but If you are not present in the moment and focused on the micro things which tell you what the situation is, you will often miss the mark. These micro expressions are slightly different for everyone, and if you are not in the mood or are out of practise, it's game over.

2) Creating fun. Most people are not leaders in creating fun. They can add to a fun situation once it's already there but are not good at generating fun. If you go to a party and realise you've come early and so far it's just the 3 girls hosting, would you be able to create a fun atmosphere? Could you get 'the party started'? Do people see you and think " Hell yeah, I don't care that nobody is here yet given that you are?" or do they think "Ah great, Ross is here, I have to talk about dinosaurs until more people come".

When you have 1) you find out the things that have the maximum emotional impact on people. Combine it with 2) and you know how to generate that impact.
 

Will_V

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Very interesting post, with some well made points. I’d disagree you have to fix every other area of social skills though.

That's absolutely right, but every guy's capacity to maintain an imbalanced skill level leaning in the direction of women is different.

For some guys, regardless of the ups and downs of their lives, women have always been there in some positive capacity. Even if it's just their mum or sister giving them emotional support. For them, women are easily separable from everything else, and they know how to chill and have fun with them regardless of what else is going on. Or maybe these guys are just very optimistic and enthusiastic by nature, and it's part of their self-expression to present themselves in magnetic ways to other people, regardless of whether their lives are a mess.

For other guys, women have always been on the 'other side' of something, a goal in the far-flung future like being jacked or getting a million dollars. I think these guys tend to have grown up with very little in the way of female company, and quite logically, they look around at other guys interacting with the women they want, and hypothesize a lack or gap of some sort that they need to bridge first. Having grown up male-dominated, achievement oriented social environments, they have a hard time understanding why that wouldn't extend to a woman's criteria for a sexual relationship.

These guys, especially if their own view of themselves is critical, have a hard time understanding why women would want to have anything to do with them and they feel like they are a bad choice, and their interactions with women tend to coincide with flatlining of their self-esteem, which result in women pulling away, and game becomes a grinding battle of pushing their self esteem uphill and having it roll down again.

No man can change his worldview just because someone tells him so. It only changes over a long set of experiences and reinforcements that eventually rearrange his instincts and natural responses to the world around him.

If a guy tries to immediately change his reality and worldview by going out and daygaming, and otherwise keeping the rest of his life the same, it's probably not going to work well at all. He's going to get rejected a bunch of times, maybe a lot of times, and that's just going to reinforce his negative beliefs, batter his self esteem, and keep him in a position where he's unable to express himself emotionally or create any kind of impetus in the seduction.

What he needs to do is go and be social, find out the reality of what experiences people want to share with others, see it and experience it in many different ways.

For me, as a teenager way back when with social anxiety and no social life, the real turning point was when I applied for a university exchange program to Brazil, and once there I just hung around with everybody who would let me hang around with them (since I had no friends or family there), whatever everyone was doing I'd just follow along and try to absorb some information - it helped that Brazilian people in general are very easy to get along with and put up with this quiet gringo in the background. I completely left my old life, my routines and my habits, behind.

Eventually I got invited to a week long house party during Carnaval, where we partied all night and lay around all day. And I saw this skinny, effeminate dude with nose rings smash through half of the girls there (including the ones I was trying to impress). At that point I was like "OK clearly I don't know what women want", I kept going to every social event I could, every party I heard of, if there was nothing going on I'd find some salsa club and dance there all night. I learned how to meet new people fast and how to make them feel comfortable and good around me quickly, and eventually got laid for the first time.

I learned a whole lot of lessons very fast on that trip. If I hadn't done all that socializing and upended my life and routines, and instead gone and daygamed solo right away without changing anything else, I doubt I would have gotten very far at all.
 

Will_V

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Great insights @Will_V
Some small add-ons:
- the coup d'état is when approaching becomes fun, and you can do it on demand...takes some time oc, but when it is a social activity you enjoy, it's even laughable how easy it is to meet new people out of the blue (even if you are an introvert like myself)

Absolutely, people generally like to meet new people, and if you can enjoy yourself and consistently present yourself socially in a pleasant, attractive, and confident way, you get a lot of positive reinforcement - girls will usually be nice and friendly even if they aren't interested for whatever reason.

You have to present your sexual side to make anything happen, but it's a lot easier to do when you're already enjoying things.

- naturals tend to be super calibrated at social interactions...that's because they can either follow the rules, or deliberately break them when it's convenient for them.

That's for sure - naturals look easygoing but are super tuned in to everything that's going on. They don't look 'busy' because a lot of it is intuitive and instinctual, but the depth and subtlety is all there.
 
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