Seduction - The very old way

Witcher

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Hello Everyone,

I would today launch a thread about a style of seduction that is not much talked about in the community. Which the process where the seducer aims is to make the target fall in love first before getting to intimacy.

In the PUA community, the now-common method of laying a girl or even getting a girlfriend is to get to sex as fast as possible by framing oneself as a lover and actively disqualifying oneself as a boyfriend. In this approach, the girl doesn't have to be in love with you or anything like that to go to bed with you. It's actually better that she doesn't value you that much, otherwise she would not go to bed with you that fast and will make you wait.

From there the relationship can end as a Hook-Up or evolve the FWB or a lovely relationship.

However, another style of seduction has been around and for a very long time. In this style, the seducer (men or women) aims to first make the target fall in love with him or her through a long, sublet, and indirect process. And from there get either sex, marriage, or anything else, now that the target is under their spell so to speak. This is actually how girls can make us fall in love with them.
"Seduction is a processof penetration: initially penetrating the target's mind, their first point of defense. Once seducers have penetrated the mind, making the target fantasize about them, it is easy to lower resistance and create physical surrender." Robert Greene the Art of Seduction
'At all cost, resist the temptation to hurry to the climax of your seduction, or to improvise. You are not being seductive but selfish. Everything in
daily life is hurried and improvised, and you need to offer something different. By taking your time and respecting the seductive process you will not
only break down your victim's resistance, you will make them fall in love.'Robert Greene the Art of Seduction
This is style of very indirect game is presented in Robert Greene's book The Art of Seduction or in more ancient works like Ovid's Art of Love. It's the style employed by seducers of the past like Cleopatra, Casanova or even in works of fiction like Soren Kierkegaard Seducer's Diary.

The Video Blow illustrate this style where the Duke The Lauzun make Anne Marise Louise d'Orleans fall in lobe with him without a single fuck

It's a pity to not see this style talked about in the community (or maybe it is and I failed to notice it). I see a lot of potential with it especially when it comes to seducing girls from Social Circle and Workplace. Or if you want a particular girl for marriage but would not be able to go for the fuck first, like if you live in a very conservative society where this may not be possible due to lifestyle or logistics.

My question here is why this style is not talked about in the community? Is it because in the PUA world we have other objectives, aka very fast sex? Is it because the style is actually to time and energy-consuming? Or is it because our world is now too fast-paced for such a long and subtle process? Or it's obsolete? Or this method is actually bullshit and actually doesn't work, it's just a legend. For me, it's way too manipulative and way to mentally consuming I admit.

Let me know your thoughts about all of this
 

topcat

Modern Human
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May or may not have worked a long long time ago. But today, while this seducer schemes and plots and takes months to eventually bed her, she’s been fucked 3 times and locked in by any decent guy on here and suddenly “forgot” to answer his texts..
 

Regal Tiger

Cro-Magnon Man
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Women have more options nowadays than they did back then. There's also less incentive to stick together vs moving on nowadays, which we can see in the divorce statistics and the massive amount of single mothers

That's a big time investment for someone who is just as likely to get swept away by life as you are yourself. The world is too fast paced and we live in a time where relationships aren't as valuable for younger people (the prime baby-making time)

But ignoring stuff like that, there's also the fact that a guy who can't get laid isn't going to have much confidence. However a guy who can get laid whenever he wants will have much more self-control as well as confidence

So it really comes down to, in my opinion, which is going to have a better chance at transforming a guy from dud to stud? Spending a crap load of time in getting a girl to fall in love with him (where he becomes ever more invested in her as he tries, further ruining his confidence, AND ignoring the fact that she's probably getting railed by some other dude in the mean time)? OR teaching him how to get laid and gain both confidence and preselection which will give him even more chances with more women?

It comes down to practicality on my opinion
 

Warped Mindless

Tribal Elder
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Read “The Art of Seduction” less from a “how to seduce women” perspective and more from an “advanced social skills and persuasion ability” perspective and you will gain more from the book.

If I was going to be a politician I would read that book 10x minimum.
 

Skills

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Hello Everyone,

I would today launch a thread about a style of seduction that is not much talked about in the community. Which the process where the seducer aims is to make the target fall in love first before getting to intimacy.

In the PUA community, the now-common method of laying a girl or even getting a girlfriend is to get to sex as fast as possible by framing oneself as a lover and actively disqualifying oneself as a boyfriend. In this approach, the girl doesn't have to be in love with you or anything like that to go to bed with you. It's actually better that she doesn't value you that much, otherwise she would not go to bed with you that fast and will make you wait.

From there the relationship can end as a Hook-Up or evolve the FWB or a lovely relationship.

However, another style of seduction has been around and for a very long time. In this style, the seducer (men or women) aims to first make the target fall in love with him or her through a long, sublet, and indirect process. And from there get either sex, marriage, or anything else, now that the target is under their spell so to speak. This is actually how girls can make us fall in love with them.


This is style of very indirect game is presented in Robert Greene's book The Art of Seduction or in more ancient works like Ovid's Art of Love. It's the style employed by seducers of the past like Cleopatra, Casanova or even in works of fiction like Soren Kierkegaard Seducer's Diary.

The Video Blow illustrate this style where the Duke The Lauzun make Anne Marise Louise d'Orleans fall in lobe with him without a single fuck

It's a pity to not see this style talked about in the community (or maybe it is and I failed to notice it). I see a lot of potential with it especially when it comes to seducing girls from Social Circle and Workplace. Or if you want a particular girl for marriage but would not be able to go for the fuck first, like if you live in a very conservative society where this may not be possible due to lifestyle or logistics.

My question here is why this style is not talked about in the community? Is it because in the PUA world we have other objectives, aka very fast sex? Is it because the style is actually to time and energy-consuming? Or is it because our world is now too fast-paced for such a long and subtle process? Or it's obsolete? Or this method is actually bullshit and actually doesn't work, it's just a legend. For me, it's way too manipulative and way to mentally consuming I admit.

Let me know your thoughts about all of this

^ this style of seduction is used by pimps, they don't even fuck the women, and they are in love with them, giving them all their money.... I also did for a while this style of seduction, is really powerful when i had a live in girlfriend, mainly through long texting....... And women do this a lot with the "only fans" etc.... The reason the style is powerful is cause it puts women in the "projecting/fantasy" role of the how she things will be when the 2 of you finally end up together...., i just spoke to someone that is giving a dude that she has not had sex with 6k (her trainer) same shit..... You can do this style is not difficult...Most long distance crushes have an element of this style too...
 

Tayo

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The only reason why I am into the whole seduction thing is not to do what the OP is suggesting.

And like the others have suggested, she would likely just get fucked by another dude that moved faster (the sex doesn't even have to be great) and your whole plans "to make her fall in love" gets destroyed... just like that.
 
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sab

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Read “The Art of Seduction” less from a “how to seduce women” perspective and more from an “advanced social skills and persuasion ability” perspective and you will gain more from the book.

If I was going to be a politician I would read that book 10x minimum.
I agree and love Robert Greene's style. There are other books by him that would be equality useful to seducers (including politicians, marketers, etc..). The 48 Laws of Power, The Laws of Human Nature (more recent). And even Mastery to become an advanced Seducer with implementation in the field. These are more about strategy at a higher level.
 

Winston

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Fwiw I did it inadvertidly with my first girlfriend.

We were students in the same class. At the beginning of our relationship she told me that sex was very important for her and that we would broke up if the sex wasn't good, so she didn't want us to kiss in public yet.

I was virgin, but had pretended to have a lot of experiences. I knew sex wasn't going to be good, therefore I delayed the first time as much as I could during the 2 first weeks.

Then we spent 3 weeks in holidays far from each other, and she was calling me on the phone very frequently the evening. Probably falling in love like that. And myself I was thinking that she will dump me anyway so I didn't get attached and thus was really outcome independent.

When we were back we met two different times to have sex. The first time I couldn't get a boner. Nothing happened besides cuddling.
Same problem the second time we met. I was lying next to her in her bed, staring at the window and thinking I will die virgin. And she broke the silence:

Her: I love you
Me: What?
Her: I love you. I know it. A few days ago my ex invite me to take a coffea at his place and I refuse. It doesn't matter if you don't feel the same, sometimes it's only one of the two.

We kissed, it makes me hard and we fucked. I lost my virginity like that. I find that very romantic.
 
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Teevster

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Seducing a woman over weeks? Okay, now... Girlschase.com is going fully mainstream.

Well, as the writer of that exact article I need to ask you exactly what makes that mainstream? This strategy was covered back in the 2000's by Pureevil, who personally experimented with this strategy (the seduction community dogma was and still is "seal the deal when the iron is hot, and preferably as fast as possible" - if you read the article, it is even mentioned that this is an easier and more proven strategy). PE experimented with this strategy for 3 reasons:
1. Some (a very small percentage) of women require this type of strategy.
2. It is a great strategy for girls who are non-compliant, and with whom you are for what ever reason not able to up compliance with usual tech.
3. But PE's main reason was that he personally ENJOYED using this technique. He loved building up tension over time and both "teasing" himself and the girl in order to generate insane amounts of sexual tension, so that at some point it becomes an uncontrollable burst of sexual tension and she fucks you like no tomorrow. I can understand why he found this appealing.

But please, enlighten me about what is so mainstream with having multiple "fractionated" micro-dates with girls with the intent of conveying high value, as well as leaving her wanting more and using "anti-logistics" to arouse her? I am ok if that is not a strategy you would like to use, or one you may not prefer (I personally don't prefer it myself - but I like to have it in my toolbox). That is fine, but calling it mainstream without giving any justification makes your comment empty. You probably haven't even read the article. If you have, please let me know and convey to us what is mainstream about this strategy.

@Skills - I tag you in here since you are close to PE and quite familiar with his extended seduction method.


-Teevster
 
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ZacAdam

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I need to ask you exactly what makes that mainstream?

I think it's important to recognize.

Westerners and Europeans tend to see things as surface level, unless bad things happened like Poland, etc.

What Tayo meant isn't that Girlschase is going mainstream per se but rather the skepticism that hey this could take turn for the worse. This website can go full bland and mainstream.

Now, I'm not speaking for Tayo here and he certainly doesn't need me to speak for him but let's be real.

There is some level of dumbing down content because the public in general, no matter what niche that is, is basically "make money online" as compared to a few who is "make money online using Facebook ads pixel".

TLDR:

Skepticism. I'm rationalizing here. But there is some level of dumbing down and that's life because as a business/things grow, it gets vanilla. How does one strike that balance between high level expertise and vanilla ice cream.

z@c+
 

Teevster

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There is some level of dumbing down content because the public in general, no matter what niche that is, is basically "make money online" as compared to a few who is "make money online using Facebook ads pixel".

Not sure if "dumbing down" is the right term to use for a technique that is considered advanced and NOT MEANT for beginners but for seasoned seducers - as mentioned in the beginning of the article. This is not me saying it, this is what the creator Pureevil said, and which was basically the consensus amongst those who read it back in the days (it includes Skills)

You guys can hate the article as much as you like, that is your choice. But I don't think any one of you are in a position to claim that the material from a very influencial seducer like pureevil is "mainstream" and "dumbed down". This is why I am reacting here.

Best,
Teevster
 
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ZacAdam

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You guys can hate the article as much as you like, that is your choice. But I don't think any one of you are in a position to claim that the material from a very influencial seducer like pureevil is "mainstream" and "dumbed down". This is why I am reacting here.

Hmm...

You claimed that the article is for "advanced" guys. But the article I viewed, it has no 'warning' or 'sign'. More like of the word 'advanced' tying into the paragraphs.

In the second post, I went over whether you should escalate to sex or opt for another date. This decision is trickier and is best made by advanced guys since the pitfalls of missing an escalation window when she is ready (an opportunity to escalate to sex) may ruin a future chance of having sex with her.

Now.. my mistake here is triggering you because I was trying to paint a Perception of how Tayo views the world, and how I as an Asian, can view the world from a more skeptical point of view.

But because I never put the word 'perception' in, and maybe put the sentences correctly where I am criticizing that Girlschase can at times be 'vanilla' because it needed to (because of company growth).

It looks like I am discrediting your article as 'dumbing down', which clearly is not the case, although surface level wise, the words are not reflecting that intention.

p.s: Damn.. always new mental achievement unlock.

z@c+
 

Teevster

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Hmm...

You claimed that the article is for "advanced" guys. But the article I viewed, it has no 'warning' or 'sign'. More like of the word 'advanced' tying into the paragraphs.

For the reading-impaired - here are some lines where it is stated explicitly

This is one of many reasons why I (and Purevil) consider this strategy advanced.

And,

This is the beauty of this technique. Advanced? Yes.

And,
Remember that this is easier said than done, and I must stress that this is advanced

And I am leaving out paragraphs where it may not be stated directly, but strongly implied.

Now.. my mistake here is triggering you because I was trying to paint a Perception of how Tayo views the world, and how I as an Asian, can view the world from a more skeptical point of view.

Out of respect to all my Asian friends, as well as all the great Asian PUA's that I have had the chance to interact with, I must emphasize that you do not represent Asians. I know tons of Asian PUA who are good, and have pretty down to earth views on things. You want to give your "Asian" perspective, yet trying to explain the perspective of a non-Asian (that is if Tayo is non-Asian). Make up your mind!

But because I never put the word 'perception' in, and maybe put the sentences correctly where I am criticizing that Girlschase can at times be 'vanilla' because it needed to (because of company growth).
It looks like I am discrediting your article as 'dumbing down', which clearly is not the case, although surface level wise, the words are not reflecting that intention.

Despite having studied philosophy for 7 years, your shit still makes 0 sense.

Reported and flagged as trolling

-Teevster
 
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ZacAdam

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Clearly you are up in your own ass, just as much as you think I am.

Whatever man
 

Tayo

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Well, as the writer of that exact article I need to ask you exactly what makes that mainstream? This strategy was covered back in the 2000's by Pureevil, who personally experimented with this strategy (the seduction community dogma was and still is "seal the deal when the iron is hot, and preferably as fast as possible" - if you read the article, it is even mentioned that this is an easier and more proven strategy). PE experimented with this strategy for 3 reasons:
1. Some (a very small percentage) of women require this type of strategy.
2. It is a great strategy for girls who are non-compliant, and with whom you are for what ever reason not able to up compliance with usual tech.
3. But PE's main reason was that he personally ENJOYED using this technique. He loved building up tension over time and both "teasing" himself and the girl in order to generate insane amounts of sexual tension, so that at some point it becomes an uncontrollable burst of sexual tension and she fucks you like no tomorrow. I can understand why he found this appealing.

But please, enlighten me about what is so mainstream with having multiple "fractionated" micro-dates with girls with the intent of conveying high value, as well as leaving her wanting more and using "anti-logistics" to arouse her? I am ok if that is not a strategy you would like to use, or one you may not prefer (I personally don't prefer it myself - but I like to have it in my toolbox). That is fine, but calling it mainstream without giving any justification makes your comment empty. You probably haven't even read the article. If you have, please let me know and convey to us what is mainstream about this strategy.

@Skills - I tag you in here since you are close to PE and quite familiar with his extended seduction method.


-Teevster
Seduction/game is not a lifestyle or a source of income for me, it is a "means to an end" (a set of skills plus knowledge).

Mainstream says seduction should take time (weeks, even months), a lot of mental effort and money. The whole reason that I started with this whole seduction/game thing was to drastically reduce the "chasing time" and the amount of money that I spend on "chasing" so that I can be focused on my actual goals in life. This is the big reason why I don't do "text game".

So, any girl who requires me to spend weeks on seduction to get her has lost my interest, I would accept that it just wasn't meant to be.
 
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Teevster

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Seduction/game is not a lifestyle or a source of income for me, it is a "means to an end" (a set of skills plus knowledge).

Mainstream says seduction should take time (weeks, even months), a lot of mental effort and money. The whole reason that I started with this whole seduction/game thing was to drastically reduce the "chasing time" and the amount of money that I spend on "chasing" so that I can be focused on my actual goals in life. This is the big reason why I don't do "text game".

I respect your preferences and know that I share them. As I state explicitly in the article, as well as last week's article, it is most of the time better to seal the deal as fast you can (but not faster), due to all the reasons that I am sure you are already familiar with.

The date method suggested in this article is not like the mainstream. It does not involve expensive dates, nor does it involve necessarily spending that much time with her. The strategy involves rather splitting up the time you spend with her over numerous short meetings. I am here talking about 15-30 minutes meetings for example (but could be longer if you so desire). They should also be low effort and shouldn't cost you shit.

The idea here is to build up the sexual tension and constantly leave her wanting more, while conveying that you are busy high value guy. I do not perceive this as particularly mainstream.

I can agree with you that the idea of meeting a girl numerous times before having sex is a cheesy mainstream dating tip, however, it is here not discussed in the same way as in the mainstream. First because the meetings are not of the same type as those advocated in the mainstream (as I have just explained).

Secondly, the intent here is not to impress her, of show her that you are a "gentleman" (cringe) or whatever the mainstream says. The intent here is first and foremost "I want to play with her head, tease her sexually so much that when she finally gets to fuck me, she will fuck me like a goddess". Let's be real, this is not coherent with the mainstream view.

Thirdly , the frame is different. Here you are not doing it because you are a wimp and you have to fall for her frame - that is, show emotional commitment in order for her to "accept" having sex with you. Although this strategy will obviously establish rapport, we still play within a serious sexual frame, and we do not show much commitment since our dates are so short and low investment.

Here is why this strategy is recommended for advanced players only: it is because it has to be done from the frame of "I could fuck her now, but I don't want to because I want to drive her nuts". You are the one ruining the logistics on purpose. You are the one choosing things to be that way, or at least you make it seem that way. The reason I wanted to emphasize that this was an advanced technique (and pureevil and skills also emphasized this for similar reasons) is that I do not want beginners and intermediates to use this post as an excuse for not sealing the deal right away - which is what they should do, until they are so much in control over their interactions with women that they can allow themselves to "break the rules".

Hint: this strategy is really good when your logistics are meh and you on purpose ruin the logistics even further so that you do not lose your sexual frame, but instead en up increasing the sexual tension, so that the moment when logistics allow for sex (on a later occasion) you will have deadly high amounts of compliance - but I digress

Hope this clarifies a few things.

Best,
Teevster
 
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Chase

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For Girls Chase to go mainstream we would literally have to delete 85% of the articles.

I don't think there's any danger in that.

Also the idea of "Alek Rolstad: Originator of Sex Talk & Mainstream Dating Expert" is the funniest thing I have heard in ages.

Every few years something happens that causes guys to think we are going mainstream or going downhill.

When @Karea Ricardus D. started writing in 2011 we were "going downhill"... came to a head when he wrote his California Pimp article.

We posted a few guest posts by a woman from Gotham Club once and the audience went into open revolt saying we had jumped the shark and gone full mainstream. Though I admit her last piece was not very good (I ended up removing the second half of it and we did not accept any further content from her).

I am just not a mainstream guy. Neither is Alek. Nor Dan. Nor anybody else who contributes to the site.

Things get mainstreamed when the leadership changes. So if someday I sell GC and some faceless corporation takes over, then yeah, it'd go mainstream over a period of 5-10 years, there is little doubt about that.

Meanwhile, us going mainstream would both be boring and a death knell for the business, so I dunno why we'd do that.

As to the idea of extended seduction... that is actually what classical seduction is.

The whole idea of "fast seduction" (i.e., picking up girls) blew up in the 1990s... the pickup community came out of the alt.seduction.fast usenet group, which became fastseduction.com, which is where everybody was posting back in the day. Mystery, Ross Jeffries, @Gunwitch, all the old school guys. @Teevster was there, as was I, as was @Tony D and a lot of guys.

Doesn't mean we need to not ever cover classical "slow" seduction.

I doubt it'll ever be a focus though, unless we see some kind of radical change in society where people don't want to hook up anymore and they all just do drawn out courtships.

Meantime, it's fun sometimes to veer off into other, little-covered topics. Extended seduction is one such topic.


FUN HISTORY LESSON: the one time before when we talked about "slow seduction" on Girls Chase, in an April Fool's article a lot of people thought was real, the readership went absolutely bananas. I have had guys tell me they read that article then quit the site for like a year because they thought we sold out, lol. Still the greatest April Fool's we ever did:


Anyway, that was a joke article where we basically talk about doing a bunch of gay stuff Alek is not talking about in the extended seduction article.

Although I guess if he starts talking about "turtle game" you can get a bit worried ;)


Also, @ZacAdam,

Please leave @Teevster alone. He doesn't understand you and he does not like it if he thinks someone's being rude. I know you're not trying to be but the message's getting lost in translation.

Chase
 
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