Seppuku's Journey into Seduction

Seppuku

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Hi guys,

I am Seppuku, a 45 years old french national living and working in Doha, Qatar. I initially established myself in the Middle East along with my family (wife and two kids) back in 2008. In 2012 I went through my divorce after living 15 years with the same woman. Things finally settled in friendly terms, and ex wife returned to France with kids. And here I was, single on my own again after 15 years, thinking that I would live the rosy life with girls once more.

However, after fucking up with my initial dates prospects, I quickly found out that things are not that easy:

  • 1. How do you get dates with women? It's been 15 years since last time I had one
    2. Whatever I used to do to get women in my late twenties do not work anymore. It's simply not congruent with the 45 years old man I have become.
    3. Qatar is a muslim country where having a girlfriend is called "illegal fornication". That tells it all. You have to be very careful here about who you're seen with and by whom
    4. The dating market is particular. Available western women are in very short supply. Muslim girls are simply out of question. On the other hand you have plenty of filipinas and christian lebanese women.
    5. No salsa classes here, or very few. I went to one class at the Sheraton hotel, and there were 14 guys and two girls, thank you, I'm out of here.
Fortunately, I stumbled into girls chase shortly after my divorce. It was an eye opener, and my chance to relearn everything from scratch. Upon reading the material there, my initial effort was essentially to work out my fundamentals, and to learn about getting social confidence with strangers. I lost a lot of weight and changed my whole wardrobe, working out a style, somehow after George Clooney, congruent with the man I was. At the same time I kept reading in girls chase, impregnating myself with the ideas there which were all new to me.

It is only in June this year that, after a long period of being happy to be just on my own, I finally decided to kick myself out of celibacy. Things started picking up for me in September this year, when suddenly I got more dates than I could handle. I have now a girlfriend, while still occasionally dating other girls on the side. In this journal I want to write down what had been my journey so far (based on personal notes I took for myself) as well as my future attempts at improving myself.

I hope you enjoy reading it.
 

Seppuku

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July 12 - walking in Paris

Since I started my personal notes (end of June 2014) I had numerous examples of cases where I try to approach a girl (usually indirect approach based on situation) and try something new. At this point my goal was never to try to pull a girl home, as I think I am not yet ready for this. Instead, I am trying to learn how to build confidence approaching women, how to build social momentum and social proof. Here is one note dated July 12, where I was on a holiday in Paris, walking in the streets and trying to gain social momentum.

  • 12 July - Day out in Paris with objective to gain social momentum. I am dressed casually but with a jacket George Clooney style.

    * I am walking behind two asian women (30+) and watch their sexy braids swinging. One of them turns back, notices me accidentally (or not!) and sees the pleased smile on my face. She turns towards me a second time, very briefly to check again... All was in the body language. We walk separate paths.
    * I walk Rue de Rivoli next to le Louvre. There is this young pretty woman selling bottles of water. I approach in a serious tone. "Excuse me. Do you know where is the Carousel du Louvre?" "No, sorry!" "You don't know?" (sexy voice) I smile. She laughs. "And what are you selling? Bottles of water? Well, but I am not thirsty". The conversation in itself is empty but all the communication was in the sexy undertones, smiles, charm, and positive body language. One thing I tried here was to engage her with a neutral body language to build up intrigue, then release the tension with a sexy smile.
    * 10 meters further there is this group of 3 young persons approaching people with marketing samples. I plan to talk to them but before I know it this young lady puts one sample in my hands. I ask her "Do you now where is the Carousel du Louvre?" The young man steps in and indicates me the way. I watch the sample she gave me. "So meantime, you gave me this?" "It is a sample or perfume from Lacoste" she replies. I show her my Lacoste shirt. "Did not know Lacoste was into perfumes... How should I do with your sample?" She shows me how to get the small napkin inside: "People put it anywhere they like." she says. I smile. She laughs. "No, I did not mean this place:)" giggles. I answer: "For now I will be more modest!" I put the perfume on my neck. That was funny because she made up the sexual innuendo.
    * At the Carousel du Louvre there is an inverted pyramid. Tourists from everywhere are continuously taking shots of it. There is a little asian hottie waiting for her friend. I pretend not to notice her and come close to her. I have my phone ready and I prepare to shoot a picture of the pyramid. She gets closer and look. Someone bumps into my visual field, and she exclaims "Oh!" I initially pretended not to notice her and she tried to grab my attention. "Great!" I say. Missed shot. I try to engage her with a comment but her friend has come back and they both go away. This is an example of sign of interest I am getting occasionally but which vanishes before I even have time to react. How does one capitalizes on something like this?
    * At the chocolate shop, this lady (45+, or maybe 50+, yet still attractive) is very flirty and smiling. I buy a box of chocolate.
    * Later as I walk back I cross the young woman with the bottles of water. She spots me, she smiles. "Did you find it?" "It's right there. In it, there is this famous chocolate shop". I show her the bag. "Have a good day!" Of course the former sexy tension has disappeared by now. Either you act immediately, or you don't, but later is too late.
    * I walk my way to Chatelet. There are two young black girls with provocative shapes. I end up walking right behind them, they're headed to Chatelet too. I think of approaching one of the two with "Excuse me, the blue shirt matches very well your skin color"... But I don't. At some point we reach a crowded area and they stop and look around. I pretend not looking at them, and I have the feeling that one of the two noticed me. Now they're walking behind me. Finally we walk separate ways.

    Today I gathered a lot of positive reactions. I think my look is now in sync with me, projecting the right image.

    Good things:
    * The two girls Rue de Rivoli: Approach on a serious tone and body language, release the tension with a smile then use sexy tones; use sexual innuendos
    * Big approach invitation from this asian tourist who staged something to grab my attention. Everything fell when girlfriend was back.

    What I could have done better. Given the circumstances it was hard to even arrange a date. I could have gone for phone numbers nevertheless.
    * The girl with the bottles of water: ask her name, place a compliment, ask for her phone. Then follow up by texting.
    * Should have approached the two black girls

    I am aware that there is no underlying plan behind my interactions. Gathering validation is good, it helps building confidence, but leads nowhere. What I need is a proper process.
 

Seppuku

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August 4 - cold approach in a cafe

There have been more and more attempts and experiments. For the cold approach I manage to do it occasionally when there is an obvious situational opener. The thing I don't do yet is the direct approach, with compliment... But I am sure I can get there. Then when I am into an improvised interaction I find my interaction goes nowhere because of lack of structure. There are also many cases where it is obviously no possible logistics now, yet I still want to try the approach. Here is an example taken from this summer vacation. I was then in a village in the south of France and for several days I have been sitting each morning in a cafe, with a nice and sunny weather and so many beautiful ladies walking around. We all know the feeling!

I noticed a beautiful girl, in her late twenties probably, with long sexy hair and nice womanly shapes. She is obviously the waitress in a nearby restaurant and she comes in the morning to have a coffee in the same cafe, before starting her day in the restaurant. There has been no obvious opportunity to approach her. Either she was seating too far (it would have been to obvious for me to walk there in front of everyone) or seating with friends... Until that morning of August 4th. Problem being, I would leave the town the next day and back to Doha, and had important stuff to do in the evening. There was really no obvious way of how to conclude this. Yet she was now seating the table next to me and no one with her. I was then seating here with my brother but after 15 minutes he left. I have to talk to her!

When my coffee is finished I ask the waiter for another one. I then turn towards the girl and say "Mademoiselle! Would you like to have another coffee?" Well, it's her second coffee already, she had already too much, she replies. OK, some resistance. It's a woman job to resist, and it's man's job to persist. Chase's article "She wants to submit" https://www.girlschase.com/content/she-wants-submit is a must read. We exchange a few words, then I ask "So, can I join you at your table?" Well, she's about to go, and anyway she was reading a nice book. "Well it looks more like your were browsing your iphone! OK I am not going to be shy any longer" and I just sit at her table. "OK, if you insist!" she says and now suddenly she has a sexy smile and open body language. Persistence works! My coffee arrives and we start chatting. Her work, no vacations in her job, etc... Question arises of where I live and work. Well that's a slightly tricky one. Saying you work in Qatar is an easy bait and usually build curiosity but then the discussion evolves about how is life there, and suddenly it's all about me, not her. I usually try to give some quick and generic answers and put the conversation back on her. Well for now I have to think of an exit before it all crash down. As I see no obvious logistics immediately available, I prefer not to overspill my beans and leave her on a high. After all I am likely back there next vacations. My coffee is finished, I stand up. "I have to go now. What is your name?" we exchange our names, I shake her hand, we smile and I leave.

Would be curious to hear how other guys would have handled this.
 

ray_zorse

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Re: Seppuku's Journal - dating in Doha

You did okay. Approaching seated women isn't the easiest thing in the world.

To make it easier I would do this.

(1) As soon as you notice her, approach, don't wait for a good opportunity (there are of course exceptions... she is with a colleague, etc)... this is because she is aware of your presence and you will look timid if you approach minutes/hours/days later.

(2) Assume attraction -- just walk over to her table, sit down, smile and say "I noticed you had only your book for company, so I had to come and introduce myself. I'm Seppuku." or "I thought you would need some company other than your book, so I came over to say hi. I'm Seppuku." or whatever comes naturally. (I did this last night so I know it works, she didn't have a book though so I just said I thought she would need someone to talk to... or whatever).

(3) Try some cold approach tactics before she is sitting down... "hey, stop for a moment" (she's walking past you with her coffee) or "hey, come and sit here"... this works much better than you coming into her territory. Or better still intercept her at the register or outside the shop or whatever. In these cases use a "totally cute" opener or "I could not help noticing your cute outfit... you look fabulous... I'm Seppuku." or similar.

(4) I wouldn't offer her a coffee, asking to sit at her table is acceptable but best avoided.

cheers, Ray

Edit: Rereading your OP the best compliment to use would have been about her hair maybe, not her outfit (that's just a standard fallback I use for women who look well put together).
 

Seppuku

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Re: Seppuku's Journal - dating in Doha

Hey Ray,

Thank you for the feedback! It's definitely all good advice. About sitting at her table, are you suggesting that I should sit without even asking? Well, that would make sense!
 

Seppuku

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August - Back to Doha as a single dad

Well, I have advertised this journal as 'dating in Doha' but so far my posts were about my attempts in France, lol. But all vacations come to an end, and early August I am back to Doha. The new thing, though, is as per our recent agreement with my ex wife, I have my two children with me for one full school year. It is a unique situation. Will it spell an end to my on-going initiative at self improvement with girl? Actually not, as we will see!

It turns out that advertising yourself as a single dad gives you an aura. You are a responsible Man! You stand out of the crowd. And you are respectable. When you are out with two kids, it attracts curiosity of women and gives plenty of opportunities to opening conversations. Plus, it opens new contexts to meet more women (nurses, school,...). Well I am not arguing about having kids just for the sake of picking girls!

It does, however, make things harder on logistics.
 

Seppuku

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August 9 - flight back to Doha

I am traveling with my two children, on our way back to Doha after one month of vacation. In the plane, a few rows behind us there are two very pretty brunette girls in their twenties, and one of them seems to be looking at me when I look in their way. There is a very pretty, asian looking flight attendant proposing drinks and she is now serving my kids. My daughter is 7 yrs old. "She understands english but a bit shy to speak!" I tell her. For me it will be argentinian wine: "I've already had too much french wine during my vacation!". When she serves me I touch her hand as I take the glass and hold the touch for a little moment, then release. Touching is the very big thing I am experimenting these days, and it works wonders!

Later she passes by: "How was the argentinian wine?" Smiles. "Very nice, I will have some more during lunch!" After lunch, she comes by again. "They are so cute!" she says about my kids. "What is your name?" I ask. She shows me her badge "Etienne". "In french, this is a man's name!" She continues down the corridor and she is now near the two girls. I stand up and come just behind her, catch her attention by gently touching her arm just below shoulder. She turns back. With a slow smile and sexy tone I say "but you do not look like a man!" she giggles and go, I return to my seat. Now the two girls are staring at me each time I turn back.

Later I ask Etienne "Where are you from? Usually I can more or less figure it out, but in your case, I don't know!" "I'm from India, northern part of India". And it is true that in some part of India near central Asia you find white skinned, asian looking girls. By the way here in Doha, I came across a couple of girls from Kazakhstan, absolutely gorgeous, guys!

Regarding Etienne, I ponder what to do next. There is about an hour of flight left, and soon we'll start the landing. I am thinking of going to the back of the plane (where she stays with other flight attendants) and ask to meet later in Doha for a lunch with my little family. But it would have not looked natural, and I don't have a pen. Whatever the excuse I don't do it, how stupid of me.

As we exit the plane, the two girls are now right behind me. Soon they are headed for flight transfer, and we go for the exits.

Yes, it seems the two girls were telegraphing IOIs, but I had to pick up my battlefield. However I failed to act with the flight attendant. It's amazing how we make up excuses not to act.
 

Seppuku

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Doha - some IOIs in August

I eventually started to have interesting (and successful!) interactions with women in September, and I am trying to fast forward to reach there, but there are a few interesting cases of signs of interests from August that deserve some mention.

August 15. Natasha is a waitress working at one of the 5 stars hotel here in Doha. She has long braided black hair, dark skin, very appealing woman shapes and overall very sexy. We're in the lounge with my kids and having fruit cocktails. I engage in casual chat with her as we are drinking, and initially try not to telegraph too much interest. As I go for the check I ask her "Where are you from?" "For Nepal, sir" Well I would have never guessed. I observe a short silence, then "You are beautiful!" It was spontaneous, I said it calmly with emphasis on the adjective. "Thank you sir" she answered in a neutral tone. Well as she does not look too excited,I assume that she is getting this sort of compliment all the time and leave. Two weeks later as I was in the same lounge for a coffee, and no longer expecting her, she passes by and irradiates me with a big, warm smile! I smile back, a flirty smile. I was caught off guard here and before I know it she's gone. This is an example of transient sign of interest where I am not able to react fast enough. Also it shows that a genuine compliment expressed with conviction can develop with time! Sometimes with the girls you just have to suggest something and let the suggestion act by itself!

September 5. My children and I are at the swimming pool of the Ritz Carlton, and I notice this young woman, maybe early thirties, beautiful and sexy ass, suggestive swimming suit, overall nice body. She bends over and I can guess her vulva through the suit. I get aroused. She is with her husband and a 2 year old child. A bit later at the cold pool, I am struggling to get in the water. She arrives alone and get straight into the cold water. I look at her, she looks me back and says "I am not so brave [...]" I answer something like "You actually look very brave". Her husband comes with their child, she leaves. Later I reach the hot pool and she is there "So you go into the hot pool first then cold one?" She answers something then leave. My god she has a wonderful, sexy back side. Interaction is off then, she is with her child, I am with mine. When I leave, end of afternoon, she spots me and smile. I remove my sunglasses, smile back and say "bye bye!". This one, with husband nearby, I am not sure how to capitalize on it.
 

BarryS1

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Re: Seppuku's Journal - dating in Doha

Seppuku, I am really interested in Arab culture. It's my goal to travel to Morocco in the next year or so. I have not had much contact with Muslim girls, mostly Christian Syrian and Assyrians.

After reading and talking to my friends about Arab culture, it seems that there's a bigger group dynamic over there. People are more invested in family, girls go out in groups, and displaying intimacy is forbidden. That's the exact opposite of what I do here!

Can't wait to read more about it, I'm definitely subscribed!
 

ray_zorse

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Re: Seppuku's Journal - dating in Doha

I agree, I'm keen to hear more about the gaming with kids side too. I'm divorced with 3 boys aged 6, 5 and 4 who I have every Wednesday and every second weekend. When I'm with my kids I tend to focus on "long game", because I have a pretty solid routine and I have women in all the different places we go... zoo, aquarium, chocolate shop etc... though recently I've started to burn it down, zoo chick and aquarium chick nogo it seems, chocolate shop is a maybe... I find daygame not really possible with kids because of their age, my concern is if I go direct "I noticed how cute you look" and she seems partway receptive then I need to focus my attention on her until I can get her relaxed and sharing, if I have to attend to the kids (give them water, break up fights, take them to the toilet etc) then it will disturb the flow. Having said that, GC is not just about pickup it's about self improvement, so I make a habit of talking to mums and whatnot whenever I'm out with the kids. I'd be keen to hear your experiences Seppuku and how they contrast with mine, how old are your kids BTW? Also do u have some help (while you are at work e.g.) because it would be good to reserve some time for yourself to practice daygame I think.

cheers, Ray
 

Seppuku

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Re: Seppuku's Journal - dating in Doha

Hey Barry,

From what I have seen, the Arab culture is another conservative culture from a traditional society. You know, the no sex before marriage, arranged marriages between families, etc... Here in the Gulf you have some cases where the spouses meet for the first time at their wedding. There is also a culture of no public display of affection and "dress modestly". You will also find that muslim girls have a *huge* social pressure to marry with muslims only; if you're not muslim you will face pressure to marry the girl and adopt islam. Dating pre-marriage is frowned upon.

If you want an easier taste of arabic culture you should maybe try christian lebanese / syrian girls, which are gorgeous by the way... Things will be easier but again, you'll find that they're often from a conservative education.

That's my take from what I have seen at least! No judgement, but personally I have chosen for now to avoid muslim girls and all that sort of complications.

Seppuku
PS Of course things are never all that clear cut and I'm sure you can find exceptions; the arabic families that settled in the West tend to have much less strict views on dating and relations.
 

Seppuku

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Re: Seppuku's Journal - dating in Doha

Hello Ray,

My kids are 12 and 7, so maybe a little bit easier, but agreed, difficult to do the direct approach with compliments when you have your children watching you. I have the impression that the indirect approach will be more practical; I had already a number of "they're so cute" comments that make a good entry point into a conversation. The tricky part will be the transition. In my last post regarding Natasha the waitress I went to the counter, leaving kiddies on their own, and then made the compliment far from them.

Yet for now the main question I face is about logistics. For one girl I had late september, I found it practical to introduce her to the kids. They got used to her, liked her, so now I bring her home three times a week and take her to the bedroom after they're in bed. I also get occasional help at home from a nanny when I go out on a date. I have her put the kids to sleep before 9. If I'm about to return, I call her and tell her she can go home, so the living room will be available if I bring my date back (this scenario has not occurred yet but I'm working on it actively :)

More post planned! The next one about Karen, the nanny in question :) lol.

Cheers!
 

BarryS1

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Re: Seppuku's Journal - dating in Doha

Seppuku said:
If you want an easier taste of arabic culture you should maybe try christian lebanese / syrian girls, which are gorgeous by the way... Things will be easier but again, you'll find that they're often from a conservative education.
Those are my favorite, even here in the U.S.! :D

Is that the type you are going for too?

EDIT:

One of my Jewish friends in the U.S. dated/slept with an Islamic girl w/o her friends or family knowing. He said she would introduce him as "my friend". When I move to a larger city, I will try this out with the girls here.
 

Seppuku

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Early september - Karen

When I arrived in Doha in August I was resuming my job immediately, yet my kids would be at home all day long until school starts in September. A connection introduced me to Karen who was available for afternoon part time job. OK so her task would be to be present for the kids and do a minimum of household maintenance and cleaning. Karen is a 25 yrs old Filipina, probably 1m70 high, long dark her, sexy almond eyes and appealing curvy shapes, and I liked her immediately... But well, I'm the Boss. On initial interactions I touched her arms and her reaction was smooth but soon we were into the boss - employee routine, so I decided not too spill my beans too much at this stage and wait until she's no longer working for me. The moment came early September; what I needed is something sharp that put me without any ambiguity in the proper frame. My initial plan was a direct call.

  • Sep 3rd. Finally the first free moment to contact Karen is at 21:30. I go for the Whatsapp text rather than the call. My goal for now is to plant the frame, rather than actually securing a date. I text "I find you a very pretty young woman with a charming personality. Couldn't tell you before as I was your boss!" "thank you, u make my heart big... hahahahahaha" "I propose we meet over a fruit juice. Do you have some time this week-end? Like after 8pm?" "Ok sir, I will just let you know" [typical filipino style lame excuse]. "Meanwhile, can I ask you to send me a picture of you? a recent one?" When I text a girl nowadays, I always ask her for a picture as a form of compliance request. She immediately sends me a nice one. Well I don't expect much feedback from her regarding my prop. But the idea now is for me to recontact her, this time by phone directly, and ask again. But first, some radio silence.

    Sep 8th. By 21:45 I call Karen. We have a 30 minutes discussion on the phone. I use my sexiest voice. I set the frame without ambiguity, this is about having a date. I repeat my compliments done last week over text and make sure they have impact. "Thank you for the picture [...] beautiful almond eyes and sexy smile" "Before you engage with a boyfriend, don't you want to know him a little bit better first?" "You and me we are the same! I suggest we meet on Wednesday at the Kempinski hotel". When she starts along the "I will let you know" way, I mention its not an answer then embark into personal questions "Are you seeing someone?" "Have you been with a western guy?" "Have you been with a 40+ old man?" "Are there any boys around you these days?" etc... to which she willfully answers. About being open with my interest: "I use to keep these things for myself when I was younger... But what is the point?" "I hope these direct questions don't make you uncomfortable" it appears they don't. So she had a boyfriend in the Philippines but they broke up as he could not wait for her; her problem now is to trust a man; and no, she's never been with a western or 40+ man. I tell her I will be waiting for her at the main entrance of the City Center shopping mall at 8 pm on Wednesday, please don't make me wait 30 minutes. She says she will do her best. "No, don't tell me that!" OK let us see if she is going to show up or not. After the call, we follow up with 30 minutes of whatsapp exchange about the Philippines.
In hindsight the justification for the date (knowing each other) was lame and not useful, and the "No, don't tell me that" was too defensive. For the rest I have achieved some objectives: I have expressed my interest clearly, I set myself out of the Boss frame, and I have planted the picture of her being with a 40+ western man (I believe in planting ideas). We also have the principle of a date.

  • 10 Sep. Early morning I have a Whatsapp message from Karen. "Sir, is it OK if we meet next time? Because this time I still feel shy..." Aha. I like the fact that she is asking for my permission. "If you're telling me that you feel shy, of course I understand! But next time you will feel the exact same shy. That's why it is a good idea to meet nevertheless. [...] We can make it short, like one hour. I also suggest to change the venue. We still meet at 8pm city center [...] Have a nice day ahead." I make a concession to make the whole thing appear less intimidating. Anyway if she comes, it won't matter anymore and we can still do a 2hr date on whichever venue. For now, let us see if she follows my lead. Otherwise we will start it again slower.

    ... And it is a flake. There was no answer whatsoever to my previous message, so I go at the agreed place and wait fifteen minutes. Nobody, no message, nothing. Her whatsapp is showing a last seen time of 16:29 namely 4 hours ago...Her phone could be off. After fifteen minutes of waiting I return home. It occurs to me that I haven't built enough comfort with her. Coming from a higher status, I need to work my attainability by relating more.

    14 Sep. 21:55 Quick call to Karen. Try to build some more connection and comfort. "So you don't want to see me? That make me so sad!" (smiling sexy voice). "Yes sure, because I'm shy!" (giggles). "Last time I did speak to you quite straightforwardly, maybe you're not used to this?" "You sound sleepy, do I wake you up?" Apparently she had a quick sleep but was about to go out to buy food. Communication is smooth, she's not trying to escape or something. I ask her about her ex-boyfriend. It was her first boyfriend. They met when she was seventeen, been with him 3 years then he left to Japan, and she left to Qatar, and they did not meet in five years... And two years ago he found a wife. This is still so present in her mind. "You must have loved him a lot! But long distance relationships are not easy!" I emphasize my first serious girlfriend, my best memory. "That was long ago - I am older then you" "how old are you sir?" She forgot "Well I already told you, but if you forgot, then I'm not saying again :)" Tone is relaxed, calm, cool, low voice. "And you haven't been with someone since then?" "No sir, because only work and sleep..." I mention that I had a 22 year old girlfriend last year from eastern europe, and stability issue quite draining. (Hoped to see her qualifying). Also communicate some pre-selection hopefully. OK, so "we don't see each other but I hope we still speak to each other" "Yeah". I leave her and promise to recontact her.
After that, I haven't pursued the interaction further as I was busy bring other women on the loop... But we had more chances to interact and I think she did telegraph me some interest.
 

ray_zorse

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Re: Seppuku's Journal - dating in Doha

This is a difficult one, changing a frame once it's been set requires incredible patience, consistency and calibration... considering that, you did pretty good. Some comments though.

Firstly you could try being a bit less direct in your intentions... she should be thinking "OMG is he interested or is he not... am I good enough for him?" and the way you can do this is with some double entendre or letting her fill in the gaps... it's hard to think of an example off the bat, but my latest journal post has something that would apply to your situation... "Karen, you really are extremely charming... " blah blah "you charmed my children... and you didn't stop there, did you?" accompanied with a sexual smile or even a wink... so instead of saying "I feel charmed by you" you let her fill in the gaps and figure out what you mean. Or just saying sexual stuff... "So how was your test?" "It was hard" "Oh but you like hard things don't you... was it long as well?"... etc... again, let her fill in the gaps. As Franco mentioned to me in response to an early question of mine, you don't want to reference sex between you and her directly, it can scare them off.

Sercondly it was bad to let her hold leverage over you in regards to the date... again you can check out my next-to-last journal post, the Korean woman called Yeonhee... she was busy Tue... I was busy Wed and Thu... she wouldn't commit to Fri, seemed to be saying she might have to meet her friends or some such... so instead of leaving it as a "maybe" on Fri. thus implying I'd have to leave it open until she confirmed... I just said "oh well in that case let's try for next week some time, we can stay in touch by text" or similar... once she feels she can dick you around like this it's pretty much all over, although you already gave her a fair bit of power by declaring your intentions up front... and after being stood up you were probably too keen to re-engage and too forgiving, don't be afraid to say when they're of line... this silly cutesy "I'm shy" stuff is probably a bit of an act, she wouldn't do that with a dude she's keen to fuck and to fuck like yesterday. That's where you need to be.

Honestly though, these days the amount of effort I'm willing to put into any one woman is not much... when you do daygame you usually send them a text 1-4 hours after meeting (called the icebreaker text) and these days if they don't respond to the icebreaker I basically NEXT them straightaway, although I might make an exception in the case of Yeonhee because we invested in a pretty long interaction, so it's probably worth one more text just to make sure she's really not interested. I guess you probably felt pretty invested in Karen since you'd spent some months getting to know her and thinking about your being together. Which is only natural. So it was worth burning it down. But even better, avoid this kind of investment!!

cheers, Ray
 

Seppuku

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Re: Seppuku's Journal - dating in Doha

Hey Ray,

ray_zorse said:
Firstly you could try being a bit less direct in your intentions... she should be thinking "OMG is he interested or is he not... am I good enough for him?"
Agreed. The only reason I did this is because I wanted some powerful electric shock to get out of the Boss frame.

ray_zorse said:
Sercondly it was bad to let her hold leverage over you in regards to the date... again you can check out my next-to-last journal post, the Korean woman called Yeonhee... she was busy Tue... I was busy Wed and Thu... she wouldn't commit to Fri, seemed to be saying she might have to meet her friends or some such... so instead of leaving it as a "maybe" on Fri. thus implying I'd have to leave it open until she confirmed... I just said "oh well in that case let's try for next week some time, we can stay in touch by text"
That's very good stuff, I will apply it! By the way I will find time to read your journal.
 

Seppuku

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September 24 - discovering WeChat

Sep 24. Today my old blackberry has crashed and since it's a company phone I have to return it to be replaced. So I have now to load all apps again, and I take the chance to look for new apps, especially messaging apps. Whatsapp is very good but let's see some others... and I end up installing WeChat. Well I understand that WeChat is not well known in the West yet, but it is already well established in Asia. I quickly find out that it has a feature called People Nearby, I start it, and surprise! There are lots of profiles of connected users, men, women, with pics, and all located withn 10 kms. It is possible to send a "Greeting" which is like a friend invite in FB. Have I accidentally unveiled the hidden secrets of Qatar dating?

Within 24 hours I have sent maybe 20 greetings to ladies with good looking profiles. Then I have my first invitation accepted by Carmelita. We spend part of the afternoon chatting. In the evening, we exchange pictures and she is a very good looking Philippines lady, 40 years old, we discuss our relationship status and setup a date for Friday 26. Later on in the evening I chat with Tracy, a 29 years old Filipina, pretty cute. She's working night shifts. The conversation is left open. The next day morning Tracy texts me first around 7:30 meaning that she's interested in keeping the connection.
 

Seppuku

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26 Sep. Date with Carmelita - the power of touching

In the afternoon, while at the swimming pool, I re-engage with Carmelita. I want to feel if she is going to flake or not. "Tonight after 8 pm I am meeting with a charming woman and I haven't thought what I'm going to wear!" Not too bad. It compliments her, but at the same time I give her a chance to tell me if she's not planning to come. "Don't worry about what to wear, you look great anyway!" "Now I'm in a good mood :)" We chat over several things, cookbooks, her sisters, swimming, then I tell her "I really look forward to see you tonight at 8" then off.

At 8pm, I enter the lobby of Kempinski hotel, where we agreed to meet. On the sofa there is a pretty woman checking her phone. Her pretty face looks slightly older than from the pictures... but OMG her body screams sex. Miniskirt, perfect bare legs, high heels, slim body, long sexy hair... We smile and shake hands.

At the restaurant I work to establish comfort. I put on a warm smile and look straight into her eyes. I touch her hand on many occasions. She speaks of her boyfriend (who left the country several months back) and the miseries of a long distance relationship. I relate by explaining my story with Odile, a girlfriend of mine 17 years ago. I make her talk. I explain my married life and how I did not cheat in 15 years, although temptations. I explain my current life with my children. "But now that you're going to have a girlfriend, are they going to accept her?" In a sense this is good because she's projecting herself into the role. OK I explain that, in the end, this is no one else's problem than me. So now we have a very clear frame of relationship established.

Then it comes to pictures. I seat next to her and touch her bare arm while she hands me her phone. I show her some of my pictures. She complains about her nose. I tell her that all asians I have met complain about their nose. Next I have my hand over her hips for a brief period of time, then return to touching more her hand and arm. After I paid, I guide her to the exit with my hand on the small of her back.

We're heading now to the Intercontinental Hotel, Strata bar at 55th floor, which is right next to my building. She now speaks continuously, with no need from me to prompt her. I park at the parking of my building and we walk to the IC [this is something I do often now. When we come back to the parking later on I will have the option of inviting her home]. I take her hand as we walk. She reminds me it's Qatar and holding hands publicly is not allowed, so she takes my arm instead... and after a couple of minutes she takes my hand back in hers. "There are no Qataris in sight" I say. We reach the IC, there is an official reception there, and suddenly tens of Qataris around "Ooops. Ooops" I say. She laughs and take my arm. "You're sure taking the arm is allowed?" We reach the elevator. There are two highly sexy girls waiting. Carmel takes my arm again. In the elevator I put my arm around her waist on the opposite hip. I can tell the two sexy girls are paying attention to us with corner vision.

At the Strata bar we continue to chat but I now hold her hand all the time and start caressing her skin... which is extraordinarily soft, fresh and pleasant. I examine her perfect manucure and she elaborates the details of how it's done. I caress her whole arm back and forth, and at times caress her hair. At one point, I have my hand and her bare thigh. She keeps speaking, no help needed from me. The Filipina waitress is watching us and smiling. Finally I take the bill and we leave.

We hold each other around the waist. When we leave the elevator she takes my hand. We see many young women in miniskirts entering the hotel. "Surely if they can dress like this, we can hold hands?" I say. Out of the hotel, there are suddenly many Qataris around. "Ooops Ooops" she says, laughing. Her hand is around my arm now. After a couple of minutes, we are again hand in hand. When we get near my car, I pull her towards me and smile. We make a very brief kiss then get in the car. "Kissing in public not allowed" same story. Inside the car I am on her and kiss again. "Inside the car no one can see" but there is some resistance from her, she keeps the mouth closed. After a couple of tries, I start the engine and drive. As she is guiding me in Doha, we are now more silent... but now I have my right hand caressing her bare thigh continuously. Her skin is incredibly soft and smooth, OMG... Can't leave my hand now, it belongs there. She reengage the talk. I ask her to send me her phone number. She takes my number. She starts asking me questions like "Are you passionate?" to which I have answers like "maybe..." We finally arrive. I get close to her and kiss. This time it is more tender... but mouth closed. Before she exits, I want her to know that I liked it. "I really enjoyed myself tonight. I find that you are a very sweet woman.." "Really? I will give you a missed call so you can keep my number". After I reach home, I engage her briefly by text. She tells me again that I look great and have nice nose. On which I say "I actually LIKE your nose!" "Only my nose?" "No, not only your nose. The list would be long". "But I will only tell you little by little". "My Friday Cinderella, it is midnight!" and we wish each other good night.
 

Seppuku

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27 Sep to 3 Oct: A busy week!

What a busy week! WeChat is proving a very efficient way to meet interested women. I was pinging 15 to 20 women each day and starting getting results. I also had the second date with Carmelita which turned out to be a flop, no matter how good the first date was. I nevertheless ended up dating three women this week. Here are some of my notes for this week.

27 Sep. Marianne has accepted my invitation in WeChat and we engage in casual chatting throughout the day. In the evening I start serious deep diving with Marianne by text. She's a pretty 26 yrs old Filipina with a 3 yrs old daughter back in the Philippines. I build some rapport first then ask her out, with a time constraint: "I am going to travel abroad next week and was wondering if you would be available for a dinner before that?" Answer is finally negative. "Am hesitating". I can tell she likes me though, so I decide we need to build more comfort first. "OK we'll take more time to text each". "I'm not forcing anyone to do things they don't want, obviously!"

28 Sep. In the morning, I get a Whatsapp message from Marianne wishing me good morning. Later in the morning Carmelita contacts me to say she will have a training at the W hotel [very near my working place]... I take it as a hint that she wants to take the chance that she's near me, to meet. Bingo. We fail to arrange a business lunch but agree to meet right after business hours. Meeting at 4:20pm in a quiet area of the Kempinsky Lounge. We chat a bit about various things, but here she is with her gorgeous body and bare legs next to me. I caress her hair, kiss her in the neck and soon touch her legs. She starts getting nervous... Suddenly she is worried that I am not spending my time with my kids. "This is my worry, not yours. Let me worry about it!". Then she is worried people are going to watch us. I get her to look around and there are just two guests who obviously are not paying attention. But well. 6:45 pm we leave and I drive her back. In the car I again have my hand on her bare leg. Her skin is so smooth! Almost drives me mad. At a traffic light there is a bus full of construction workers. "They could see us!" OK so I put my hand on her leg, from below. "Now they can't see us!" When we reach her home, I try kissing her but face a big resistance. I get a peck on the lips. Obviously our second date is a flop and my mistake is all too evident, I have failed to rebuild comfort again before getting physical, instead, I just resumed where I left things on Friday. Big lesson, rebuild comfort first!

Later the same night I start engaging a serious chat with Marianne. I deep dive, plant the frame (qualities she looks for in a man, ...) and qualify her (what's her education degree?) then at some point, the interests shifts and she starts asking questions. The hook point! What's the reason for my divorce, etc... In the end, she tells me "Now I am ready to meet you face to face!" We further agree to meet on Wednesday evening.

29 Sep. Chinese beauty Ina accepts my invitation on WeChat. She's 30, working as massage probably in W hotel. I initially suspect a prostitute. I ask her a picture - if she's a prostitute she probably either won't give away a picture for free or will send something aggressive to tease me. Ina sends me back 3 pics immediately and she's beautiful. I send her a picture of me business style. She says I look good, and that it's real (she means it). I ask her if she has a boyfriend and she says yes. She's open and honest. I tell her I appreciate. I also connect with Kathy who turns out being a married woman at home. Communication is not too straightforward and she declines my pic request. Marianne spontaneously sends me a picture of her. In the evening I call Carmelita. We talk a few things, mainly about our latest date. I know I made her uncomfortable. "You noticed?" Test: I mention that I am going to be free to go out on Thursday or Friday. "We'll see!" OK this means no. "OK as you like!". Then I go silent on her.

30 Sep. In the morning, Tracy is back to me. We chat and I inform her on my upcoming vacations. I tell her I will get a tablet and install WeChat on it so we can go ahead with video calls. Marianne starts telling me about the health problems of her sister, her need for 5000 Riyals and how she's been begging her boss for an advance. Well that sounds not good and makes me cold. In the evening though we chat and she asks me to call her "I want to hear your voice!" we further discuss on the phone - I take my nightly sexy voice of course. She obviously does the same and her voice is nice, sweet and sexy.

1 Oct. Marianne is now asking me to lend her the money. What the fuck, it makes me mad. OK, so I revert to her and tell her 1. date tonight canceled, and 2. we will meet briefly on Friday instead. The rest of the day she's in drama mode, tears etc... Besides, I am now connected to Jenalyn, a 40 yrs old Filipina at the reception desk of my building. Some chat with Ina; she says she is now in W Hotel so not far. It infers that she is employed by W to massage. In the evening, Marianne is back with more drama. I call her to defuse the drama. OK I can see she's sincere and actually a good person in distress.

2 Oct. Can't believe. In the morning I make a round of invites in WeChat and one girl reverts to me almost instantly, and she's a beauty. Rachel is a 31 old Philippines girl. We exchange on our relationship status and our respective miseries. We exchange pictures. She says I look good. She qualifies herself. I tell her I am going on a vacations 2 days from now. She actually ask "So I will meet you tomorrow for some time? What do you think?" So she's asking for the date, that's good. We agree on seeing each other on Friday evening. More chat happens with Rachel in the late afternoon. We decide that we both like movies.

3 Oct. I meet Marianne in the City Center mall at 11am. She behaves shy. She's actually cute, very feminine, good feminine shapes. We go for a drink in a coffee shop. I tell her that it's best we put the date idea on hold for now. She first needs to go through those difficult times of her life first before thinking of romantic involvement. She grabs my hand and hold it tight. After about 45 minutes I leave. Later during the day she texts me many times. I barely answer. She's probably did not get (or not want to get) my point on putting the date idea on hold!

I try pinging Ina as I go to W hotel to book a table at a restaurant there. Is she on duty today? Yes. "I'm at the W." "Why?" "Passed by at italian restaurant" "OK" "Are you working here?" "No". So my god, if not employed by W, where is she working and what is her job. I again think she might be a prostitute. More small talk. I ask "Do you have a day off?" no answer, the channel goes silent. At the restaurant, I ask for a table for two for tonight and mention it is a date. The waitress tells me she can arrange something nice.

I will detail the date with Rachel in my next post.
 

ray_zorse

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Re: Seppuku's Journal - dating in Doha

Hey Seppuku mate I don't want to offer too much comment/critique/opinion if it's not asked for, but it occurred to me you might be taking away the wrong message from your interaction with Carmelita and so it seemed important enough to jump in.

My analysis would be that on date one she was practically throwing herself at you, and all you had to do was get her to a seduction location and close the deal. This figures because at 40 she should know her own mind.

What you could have done was when you were going to leave the hotel say "It's still early, let's go for another drink... I'll take you to a place I know with great music where the drinks are really cheap"... then lead her back to your apartment. On the way she'll probably ask where she's going, just say "you'll see"
or as I did recently, squeeze her hand and say nothing.

By not acting you missed a big window (again my analysis based on the information in your post, not authoritative), and missing windows makes women go cold on you. Usually they really hate you after a missed window (because they feel like a slut and that they've taken a risk in opening up to you and it's backfired)... but in this case even after you disqualified yourself as lover material you still had significant boyfriend value, so she's resumed contact but slowed things right down.

Definitely don't take any crap about how you made her feel uncomfortable at face value, that's all bullshit. I just didn't want you to take away the message you need to move slower, cos you need to move faster bro.

cheers, Ray
 
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