I recently finished a two year (mostly) monogamous relationship. I strayed a couple of times when girls threw themselves at me, but other than that I was faithful. Didn't looking for anything else - my skills became rusty (as I found out at the end of the relationship when I somehow struggled leading girls to bed in simple situations). I don't think my gf cheated, though it's possible that like me it could've happened once or twice, you never know.
There seems to be a trend in the seduction world towards non-monogamy, a few articles here from Michael Chief and a long series from Varoon Rajah (which I haven't read all of but which seem) largely based on Blackdragon's model. I suspect a large part of this trend is the fact that people want to live in large cities with first world (or close enough) amenities and opportunities, and that means dealing with women in large cities with Western mindsets.
The arguments in favour of nonmonogamy make logical sense to me, but, I'm not a Vulcan. I get jealous. It's calmed down as I've gotten older, in my younger days it took so much self-control to hide the jealousy since I knew showing it would not have the desired effect (though when girlfriends asked if I was jealous I would always admit it). There seems to be a lot of shaming language coming from the pro-polyamory crowd: (paraphrasing) "Are you not man enough to handle other guys fucking your girl?" and that sort of thing. Sure, I can handle it with girls I don't really care about, fuck-buddies and so on. But with girls I really like and am bonding with, no, I can't handle it, it hurts.
There's one sided-monogamy. I've tried it, I don't think it really works long-term without a serious power imbalance (and I'm not a Sultan). I agree with BD's take - "Either the relationships fails (usually meaning she leaves him), or the woman stays with him but cheats on him behind his back in an effort to either get back at him or to make things more “fair.” Often, the woman is prompted to do this by her Western female friends and family members." Interestingly, he goes on to say "it’s extremely common for women in MLTR’s and OLTR’s to not have sex with other men while you’re having sex with other women. In about 50% of my non-FB relationships, the woman wasn’t having sex with other men at all." - http://blackdragonblog.com/2018/01/01/c ... -monogamy/
That becomes, effectively, one-sided monogamy. But let's say I don't really believe in a fully open deal but hope to get this dynamic. I start a relationship that is purportedly open, but end it when the nonmonogamy stops being one-sided. A - it's dishonest and against my code. And B - it might work early on, but let's say a 3 year relationship has gone by with all one-sided nonmonogamy, and then one day she decides to take advantage of her freedom and have her fun. Am I going to end that relationship, throw away all that investment, just because my partner did something she believed she had my blessing to do? Probably not.
Then there are the purportedly monogamous relationships where the man and/or woman cheats, either regularly, sporadically, or with one or two "mistakes". BD argues that those are non-monogamous relationships, which is essentially true, but two people trying to stay faithful to each other and failing on occasion is a different model than two people with free reign to go fuck someone else every night.
Lastly, I'm not really interested in the low sex-drive virgin from the tiny village with the hardcore religious upbringing that so many manosphere tradcons have wet dreams over. The ones that supposedly would never even think of another man. I like high-energy (and typically high sex-drive) women (the happy ones, not the "victims" whose energy is devoted to defeating evil evil men).
One day I think I would like to settle down and have a family. So, as I see it, these are my options:
1 - Have a fully monogamous relationship with the intent of starting a family
Advantages: Jealousy is soothed, a tried and tested model, mostly what I want out of an ltr.
Disadvantages: Lower testosterone, shaky foundations (cheating on either side can lead to severe drama or the end of the relationship), reliance on one woman to meet all my needs, I'm not sure I can (or want) to stay faithful for 10 years or more.
2 - Have a fully open relationship with the intent of starting a family
Advantages: More freedom, potential higher testosterone from variety of women, maybe more compatible with types of girls I'm in to, harder to break up the union because of higher leeway, keep up seduction skills, keep partner on her toes.
Disadvantages: Jealousy may eventually poison me against my partner, potential lower testosterone from loser effect of partner sleeping with other men, may create sense of competition to outdo partner, may create too much work in chasing girls when I'd rather be focused on other things, lower patenity confidence (hopefully the world won't follow France and ban paternity tests, but you never know).
3 - Have a series of short-term monogamous or one-sided monogamous or fully casual relationships (the model of my relationships in my 20s)
Advantages: No jealousy issues, need for variety basically met, testosterone levels probably kept at reasonable level, won't get too rusty with women.
Disadvantages: Not really suited for longterm pair bonding or family rearing, kind of sad and lonely, may get harder to pull off with age - time will tell.
Looking at the list, for someone interested in starting a family, option 2 seems the best bet, though it has plenty of compromises. Option 3 is essentially a decision that having a family is too much work, it's probably where I'm still at, but I don't know if I'll still feel that way in 5-10 years. At least there's no biological clock ticking.
Any thoughts? Preferably based on personal experiences rather than theoretical posturing.
There seems to be a trend in the seduction world towards non-monogamy, a few articles here from Michael Chief and a long series from Varoon Rajah (which I haven't read all of but which seem) largely based on Blackdragon's model. I suspect a large part of this trend is the fact that people want to live in large cities with first world (or close enough) amenities and opportunities, and that means dealing with women in large cities with Western mindsets.
The arguments in favour of nonmonogamy make logical sense to me, but, I'm not a Vulcan. I get jealous. It's calmed down as I've gotten older, in my younger days it took so much self-control to hide the jealousy since I knew showing it would not have the desired effect (though when girlfriends asked if I was jealous I would always admit it). There seems to be a lot of shaming language coming from the pro-polyamory crowd: (paraphrasing) "Are you not man enough to handle other guys fucking your girl?" and that sort of thing. Sure, I can handle it with girls I don't really care about, fuck-buddies and so on. But with girls I really like and am bonding with, no, I can't handle it, it hurts.
There's one sided-monogamy. I've tried it, I don't think it really works long-term without a serious power imbalance (and I'm not a Sultan). I agree with BD's take - "Either the relationships fails (usually meaning she leaves him), or the woman stays with him but cheats on him behind his back in an effort to either get back at him or to make things more “fair.” Often, the woman is prompted to do this by her Western female friends and family members." Interestingly, he goes on to say "it’s extremely common for women in MLTR’s and OLTR’s to not have sex with other men while you’re having sex with other women. In about 50% of my non-FB relationships, the woman wasn’t having sex with other men at all." - http://blackdragonblog.com/2018/01/01/c ... -monogamy/
That becomes, effectively, one-sided monogamy. But let's say I don't really believe in a fully open deal but hope to get this dynamic. I start a relationship that is purportedly open, but end it when the nonmonogamy stops being one-sided. A - it's dishonest and against my code. And B - it might work early on, but let's say a 3 year relationship has gone by with all one-sided nonmonogamy, and then one day she decides to take advantage of her freedom and have her fun. Am I going to end that relationship, throw away all that investment, just because my partner did something she believed she had my blessing to do? Probably not.
Then there are the purportedly monogamous relationships where the man and/or woman cheats, either regularly, sporadically, or with one or two "mistakes". BD argues that those are non-monogamous relationships, which is essentially true, but two people trying to stay faithful to each other and failing on occasion is a different model than two people with free reign to go fuck someone else every night.
Lastly, I'm not really interested in the low sex-drive virgin from the tiny village with the hardcore religious upbringing that so many manosphere tradcons have wet dreams over. The ones that supposedly would never even think of another man. I like high-energy (and typically high sex-drive) women (the happy ones, not the "victims" whose energy is devoted to defeating evil evil men).
One day I think I would like to settle down and have a family. So, as I see it, these are my options:
1 - Have a fully monogamous relationship with the intent of starting a family
Advantages: Jealousy is soothed, a tried and tested model, mostly what I want out of an ltr.
Disadvantages: Lower testosterone, shaky foundations (cheating on either side can lead to severe drama or the end of the relationship), reliance on one woman to meet all my needs, I'm not sure I can (or want) to stay faithful for 10 years or more.
2 - Have a fully open relationship with the intent of starting a family
Advantages: More freedom, potential higher testosterone from variety of women, maybe more compatible with types of girls I'm in to, harder to break up the union because of higher leeway, keep up seduction skills, keep partner on her toes.
Disadvantages: Jealousy may eventually poison me against my partner, potential lower testosterone from loser effect of partner sleeping with other men, may create sense of competition to outdo partner, may create too much work in chasing girls when I'd rather be focused on other things, lower patenity confidence (hopefully the world won't follow France and ban paternity tests, but you never know).
3 - Have a series of short-term monogamous or one-sided monogamous or fully casual relationships (the model of my relationships in my 20s)
Advantages: No jealousy issues, need for variety basically met, testosterone levels probably kept at reasonable level, won't get too rusty with women.
Disadvantages: Not really suited for longterm pair bonding or family rearing, kind of sad and lonely, may get harder to pull off with age - time will tell.
Looking at the list, for someone interested in starting a family, option 2 seems the best bet, though it has plenty of compromises. Option 3 is essentially a decision that having a family is too much work, it's probably where I'm still at, but I don't know if I'll still feel that way in 5-10 years. At least there's no biological clock ticking.
Any thoughts? Preferably based on personal experiences rather than theoretical posturing.