She thought we were monogamous - Really upset her

[Dylweed]

I met a girl at a bar and did a quick number close. Met her for a date and we walked around downtown where she lives and we ended up back at her place. I escalated through her resistence to sex and then afterwards told her im not looking for a serious relationship. I was sleeping with other girls, i didn't mention this. We hung out 4 more times after that, never more than once a week and it was always at her place and we always had sex. Last night i was at her place again and we were cuddling and talking after we had sex. In the back of my mind i wanted to tell her im sleeping with other girls so that were both on the same page, I need to be honest. So while we were talking I was telling her how im really close with my brother and asked her who knew her the best. She said the name of one of her friends.

I teased her, "she knows all your secrets?"
Her, "almost, you know some things she doesn't."
Me, "Oh like the number of people you slept with" (she told me this 2 weeks ago)
Her "yeah"
Me "and is the number still the same?"
Her, "yeah, is your number still the same?"
Me, "yeah"
Her, "good"
Me, "I don't know if it's obvious or not but i feel like i should tell you that i do hang out with other girls."
Her, "what do you mean by hang out?"
Me, "I sleep with them...It doesn't mean that i don't respect you though. I like hanging out with you and i would prefer we keep doing that but if it's not alright with you i respect your decision. I used meeting girls as a way of self improving myself". (She knows i lost my virginity less than a year ago and have slept with 8 different girls)

Thats when she took my hand off of her and said that i should start leaving. She said she couldn't believe me and that she had no idea. She was very upset. It got real awkward. She went to the bathroom and i started getting dressed. When she came back I said, "Sorry for making this awkward." I wanted her to speak up, i wanted her to at least get me before we possibly never saw each other again.
She said it wasn't awkward. She said that it was very wrong. She said she felt like i used her. I told her im just too inexperienced to get into a serious relationship right now, that i need to get it out of my system so i don't regret it when im older. She said she doesn't care about a label but she just wants one person to have a connection with. She told me she's made sacrifices to hang out with me and that instead of working like i told her i was that i was actually sleeping with other girls. I told her that i never lied to her. I said some girls are okay with it. She told me she's been turning down other people because of me.

She said "If i knew this was just a sex thing i would have had sex and then had you leave right away. Do you know how often i get asked out? I told you i didn't want to go on a date with you but you called me anyways and i told you 10 times i didn't want to have sex with you but you had me do it anyways. I slept with you on the first date which i've never done in my life and now you tell me this?" She was crying at this point and then she yelled at me to get out.

This was a terrible experience. I got into pickup to improve myself not to feel like im ruining peoples lives. It's best to look at this from a learning perspective though. Anybody got any advice for where i fucked up. I don't ever want to do this to another girl again.

 

[Thedoctor]

Dylweed,

I teased her, "she knows all your secrets?"
Her, "almost, you know some things she doesn't."
Me, "Oh like the number of people you slept with" (she told me this 2 weeks ago)
Her "yeah"
Me "and is the number still the same?"
Her, "yeah, is your number still the same?"
Me, "yeah"
Her, "good"
Me, "I don't know if it's obvious or not but i feel like i should tell you that i do hang out with other girls."
Her, "what do you mean by hang out?"
Me, "I sleep with them...It doesn't mean that i don't respect you though. I like hanging out with you and i would prefer we keep doing that but if it's not alright with you i respect your decision. I used meeting girls as a way of self improving myself". (She knows i lost my virginity less than a year ago and have slept with 8 different girls)

This is where I think you went wrong. You're subtly trying to bring up the "relationship-status talk" when she should be the one doing it. If she is concerned about you sleeping with other women, she will bring it up.

I used meeting girls as a way of self improving myself

Don't try to justify yourself . Anytime you do this, you give off the impression as though what you did was wrong.

Me "and is the number still the same?"

I also long ago made it a point not to discuss a girl's partner count. Discussing some of her sexual experiences? Of course.. But asking her number often comes off sounding insecure. Plus, it's rare that anyone answers that question truthfully in any case.

It's important that you don't set false expectations for a girl. I'm not sure how you were managing your encounters with her, but chances are, if you were only seeing her once a week and said you didn't want a relationship, then she understood what was going on. She just didn't need to hear it point blank like that.

This is just me. I'm sure a few of the other guys might weigh in on this one.

-John

 

[Dylweed]

Thanks for the feedback man. I see how dumb it looks to justify myself. Also I really wasn't trying to subtly bring it up though, it just came to me when she said good about my number not being higher. And the only reason i asked her about her number was because she asked me first and i said i'd only tell her if she told me hers. I did bring it up again though right there, i guess that was at a way to get her to admit to seeing other guys, i didn't know if she was or not.

now i feel really dumb for stating it point blank like that. It was probably like a don't ask, don't tell thing and then i brought it out into the open for no reason. lol well I'll learn from this.

 

[Franco]

Dylweed,

John's advice is on point here. This is a case of you being "too honest," and, more importantly, bringing unnecessary things up yourself before she does. When it comes to relationships with women, you never want to throw a wrench in your momentum until SHE does it first, and then you can figure out how to remove the wrench. If you bring up things yourself, it makes you look like you feel really guilty about what you're doing, and thus she's going to assume that what you're doing is wrong (and that's the way she framed it).

It's okay after you had sex with her the first time that you said you weren't looking for anything serious -- if you had left it at that and never mentioned it again, things probably would have gone more smoothly. Just make sure not to bring up issues that aren't there yet!

- Franco

 

[Dylweed]

Thanks Franco. This really helps me out guys, appreciate it.

Before all this happened she texted me saying that she was starting to feel sleazy only seeing me at night at her place and that she wanted to grab dinner with me. She also blew up my phone when she was drunk one night recently calling me and texting me to come over. When i didn't answer because i was with another girl she texted me saying "Well i hope you're enjoying whoever the fuck she is because we are over!" The she said "stop stop stop!!!" when i still didn't respond to that. Then when i finally looked at my phone i just said, "____ you said you were busy tonight, i didn't have my phone on me." Then she responded apologizing like crazy hoping i wasn't mad. I think this is what made me start feeling guilty. Is this enough of a reason to bring it up like i did or should i still have not said anything.

BTW here's an update, so today i decided to text her about grabbing dinner wednesday. She responded saying she was confused by my invitation because she felt she made it very clear she isn't down for seeing me as long as im seeing other women. So she asked if im still seeing them or not. Haven't responded. I could now lie to her and say that i ended things with them and continue seeing her, or i could end things with the other girls and continue seeing her, or i could just stop seeing her. Very tough decision. Thanks for the help guys.

 

[Franco]

Dylweed,

BTW here's an update, so today i decided to text her about grabbing dinner wednesday. She responded saying she was confused by my invitation because she felt she made it very clear she isn't down for seeing me as long as im seeing other women. So she asked if im still seeing them or not. Haven't responded. I could now lie to her and say that i ended things with them and continue seeing her, or i could end things with the other girls and continue seeing her, or i could just stop seeing her.

It really depends on how you feel about her. If this is a girl you want to enter a long-term relationship with, then you might need to talk things over with her. However, it sounds like this is not the case, and this girl obviously seems relatively insecure, so I think dragging her along on a leash any farther is only going to cause more trouble for both you and her. So you might want to have a short chat with her and explain that you're not looking for anything serious and it seems like she is, so maybe it's best if you stop seeing each other.

At that point, if she remains relatively calm about it, you can explain that your door is open if she wishes to see you again under casual terms, but you're not looking to only date one girl at the moment. That's probably how I would play it.

- Franco

 

[Dylweed]

Thanks a lot Franco, helps a lot. Well I had to go see her quick because i left my coat at her place, she was very angry and sad to see me and didn't want to talk. I tried telling her if she wants something casual to let me know but she closed the door on me and then sent me a bunch of angry text messages telling me how much she hates me.

I got one last question Franco if you wouldn't mind, based on what i said in the beginning of my very last post before this one, would you have told her about sleeping with other girls or would you still not bring it up? Or would you have told her in a text when she accused me of sleeping with a different girl?

 

[Franco]

Dylweed,

I got one last question Franco if you wouldn't mind, based on what i said in the beginning of my very last post before this one, would you have told her about sleeping with other girls or would you still not bring it up? Or would you have told her in a text when she accused me of sleeping with a different girl?

Nope!

You actually handled her text correctly by saying that you were busy doing XYZ... and as you can see, she could tell you were somewhat agitated by her accusation, so she apologized profusely. This is generally what the girls do if they make an outlandish accusation (of which they have no evidence) and you stand your ground and correct her. She didn't want to upset you, so she apologized. That is generally the way you should handle things.

And there's no reason to ever bring up the fact that you're sleeping with other girls. At the most, you say that "you're not interested in anything committed at the moment." She can figure the rest out from there.

- Franco

 

[Dylweed]

If you pay close attention to what I'm about to say, you can change your perspective in such a way that you will be liberated from this post forward.

The girl was not remotely upset about "how you weren't monogamous." That was the target for the bad feelings she felt, so that's where she vented them. That entire story about how she tried to say no and you persisted and made her sad and all that, is something that she literally made up on the spot in response to her bad feelings.

So the question is, where did her bad feelings come from? They came from you verbalizing way too much for absolutely no reason. I understand that your inner compass wants you to tell her the truth about everything so she can make the best decision for her. Understand however, women do NOT feel the same way with you. Ever. Not only are they never, ever forthcoming about anything related to sex and sexuality, but they will lie their asses off to you if you ask them ANY questions about it (unless/until you "get it," at which point you'll see who they really are.)

By telling her "I'm sleeping with other girls," you made her think that you're indiscreet and inexperienced. Since you had been getting together once a week and fucking, she had felt safe in your role as FuckBuddy because she believed you "got it" and were an "alpha dude who's great for sex." However, when you suddenly started pouring your heart out, she realized she had been fooled by a "beta guy pretending to be an alpha guy." This is where her bad feelings came from, which she projected outwards about some made up "i thought we were monogamous" nonsense.

She didn't think you were monogamous and there's almost no chance she was with you either. I know this is a lot to swallow but I am hoping that it clicks for you, or someone else reading it. Basically you ruined it for yourself by holding yourself to a moral standard that, IN HER EYES, makes you weak and easy to manipulate. Men respect you for it, women don't. I hope you can wrap your head around what I'm saying.

Dude that was the shit, thank you so much. I really think i get it now. So great to know this. I was starting to doubt if i should ever have a fuck buddy ever again. This whole situation with her really made me feel like shit with her telling me how much she hates me and all that. But this post really helped me see why this all happened. Good to know that i can continue having fuck buddy relationships. It's crazy because it's true, i really am a beta guy, i always have been my whole life, thats why i started this pickup shit. I never imagined i would have multiple fuck buddy's. And now I've learned these alpha behaviors from these websites but it's still hard to pull it off completely since im still so inexperienced. This girl was the 8th girl i've slept with since i lost my virginity 10 months ago.

Thanks again guys, this helped so much

 

[Dylweed]

just for any possible lol's i'll post what i just texted her. A few hours earlier she texted me that she was deleting my number and to never text her again but just now i just sent this anyways. And i know this probably only makes me look even more chode in her eyes but i figured why not, it's already ruined and i definitely learned a lesson.

"So i finally think i get it now, you knew all along that i wasn't monogomous, you probably weren't either. You were probly glad to have found a guy who got it, a guy you thought was an alpha dude who was great for sex, but then when i started pouring my heart out to you for no reason, you realized that i wasn't the guy who you thought i was, that instead of being the experienced guy who gets it, i was just pretending. Then you used the excuse of I thought we were committed as the reason for being upset but really you were upset because you felt fooled. Because i am inexperienced and this is all new to me. But thanks for the learning experience soon i will actually be the guy u thought i was. Just had to vent cuz im weird lol even though i know you don't give a fuck lol but thanks"

 

[Dylweed]

It's like the world is not at all how it seems when it comes to dating. Also in other areas of life but dating is one of them. What you said earlier really clicked with me and now i feel i have a way better understanding of dating. Most guys don't understand how dating really works at all. It's like almost no men really actually get it and it's almost like we're becoming enlightened and seeing the truth that so many people will never see lol.

And yeah i've added a lot of alpha behaviors to myself and have made them natural. I was a pretty alpha dude with this girl and i was always myself all the time. Thing is i was myself too much where i let out my beta side and it all backfired. Now I'll have to remove those parts of my personality until i'm natural with that as well.

One more question, what if she would have asked me in person if i was sleeping with other girls? I hate lying.

I have one experience of being honest in a situation like that and it worked out fine. 3 days after my birthday a fuck buddy was saying all your sexual experience was when you were 22, then she got excited and said, was this this first time you had sex when you were 23? I just no like it was no big deal and kept talking. She didn't have a problem with it and i'm still seeing her. Is it because i waited till she asked?

 

[Dylweed]

If you pay close attention to what I'm about to say, you can change your perspective in such a way that you will be liberated from this post forward.

The girl was not remotely upset about "how you weren't monogamous." That was the target for the bad feelings she felt, so that's where she vented them. That entire story about how she tried to say no and you persisted and made her sad and all that, is something that she literally made up on the spot in response to her bad feelings.

So the question is, where did her bad feelings come from? They came from you verbalizing way too much for absolutely no reason. I understand that your inner compass wants you to tell her the truth about everything so she can make the best decision for her. Understand however, women do NOT feel the same way with you. Ever. Not only are they never, ever forthcoming about anything related to sex and sexuality, but they will lie their asses off to you if you ask them ANY questions about it (unless/until you "get it," at which point you'll see who they really are.)

By telling her "I'm sleeping with other girls," you made her think that you're indiscreet and inexperienced. Since you had been getting together once a week and fucking, she had felt safe in your role as FuckBuddy because she believed you "got it" and were an "alpha dude who's great for sex." However, when you suddenly started pouring your heart out, she realized she had been fooled by a "beta guy pretending to be an alpha guy." This is where her bad feelings came from, which she projected outwards about some made up "i thought we were monogamous" nonsense.

She didn't think you were monogamous and there's almost no chance she was with you either. I know this is a lot to swallow but I am hoping that it clicks for you, or someone else reading it. Basically you ruined it for yourself by holding yourself to a moral standard that, IN HER EYES, makes you weak and easy to manipulate. Men respect you for it, women don't. I hope you can wrap your head around what I'm saying.

When i first read this i thought it seemed so correct but now im starting to have doubts.

What if she really believed we were monogamous? Like you said women lie all the time but she did tell me earlier she hadn't kissed a guy since april. She also told me she was a virgin till she was 23, and i really don't think she was lying. She's almost 26 now so she's inexperienced also and much different than most girls. You say all that as if it's a fact but there could be exceptions right? Maybe she really didn't get the hint when i told her i wasn't looking for a serious relationship?

It's so hard to know. Either way if one of your recent fuck buddy's wanted to grab dinner with you because she was starting to feel sleazy and if she blew up your phone on the thought of you being with a different girl, would you just keep pretending you weren't sleeping with other girls? Would you feel bad? Why would she do that if she wasn't being monogamous and why would she do that if she knew that i wasn't? As a way of testing me? Or what if she really was super hurt at the thought of it?


This is her last text back to the one that i showed you guys that i sent her

"You could NOT be more wrong---and if you think you're an "alpha" guy then you're stupid too. I had plenty of chances to be with someone who was committed, and I gave them up TO BE WITH YOU!!!! I work 4 jobs and go to school full time, I gave up what minimal free time I had to be with you, and I told you all my secrets. To find out you are doing that with other girls is beyond heartbreaking, it's disrespectful. Some people (me) don't want to share everything with someone else (you) who are sharing parts of themselves with everyone else. I wanted ONE person, and you wanted THREE. You are sending me that bullshit text in the middle of the night because you're trying to find a single reason why you aren't wrong and a bad person in how this ended---well guess what, you are. You're the bad guy. I didn't know, I trusted you and you were sleeping around. I fucking APOLOGIZED TO YOU when I accused you of sleeping with other people! I didn't fucking know. And unlike you, because I 1. have sex with an emotional connection-and not whenever I want regardless of whether the other person is verbally consenting to sex, 2. Have jobs, and 3. Go to school, I don't have time to fuck around behind my partners back. You literally cut my every free second not spent with my friends or studying. Well now I'll have a lot more free time, and I'll be very glad to find someone who ACTUALLY FUCKING LISTENS to me. You aren't worth my time--that text was bullshit: and at 2am? Who were you fucking? Jesus, now that i know why you text so late, you think you'd have the goddamn decency not to do it to me anymore."

She seems kinda crazy but i get the feeling she's telling the truth, what do you think?

 

[Franco]

Dylweed,

Amidst all of this, you forgot the advice that John gave you at the beginning of this post:

Don't try to justify yourself . Anytime you do this, you give off the impression as though what you did was wrong.

So when you wrote this to her...

"So i finally think i get it now, you knew all along that i wasn't monogomous, you probably weren't either. You were probly glad to have found a guy who got it, a guy you thought was an alpha dude who was great for sex, but then when i started pouring my heart out to you for no reason, you realized that i wasn't the guy who you thought i was, that instead of being the experienced guy who gets it, i was just pretending. Then you used the excuse of I thought we were committed as the reason for being upset but really you were upset because you felt fooled. Because i am inexperienced and this is all new to me. But thanks for the learning experience soon i will actually be the guy u thought i was. Just had to vent cuz im weird lol even though i know you don't give a fuck lol but thanks"

...you were just asking to get slammed. Never try to justify or reason your actions with women, and never come out of the box with being "honest" about everything.

Never "vent" to women. Women don't keep men around so that MEN can vent to them. They need men around to be able to vent TO, but if the man can't even control his own venting, how does she expect you to control hers? Although this is a learning experience, you showed her by sending her that text that you have absolutely no idea what you're doing, and she probably felt even more disgusted with herself than she did before you sent that text. There was no reason to send it, and you weren't going to learn anything from her (except maybe to never send a text like that again).

Drex pretty much nailed it on the head. You have to understand that women speak with their actions, and if she's still sleeping with you while you're both single, then she knows there's a possibility that you might be sleeping with other women. The POSSIBILITY is fine because you aren't technically breaking any agreed upon terms, and it won't bother her quite as much as it did when you strictly verbalized to her that you were sleeping with other women. Again, you already told her after the first time you two had sex that you were not interested in a serious relationship, and that was enough. The second you start feeling like you need to "re-iterate" terms or be honest about what you're doing, the second she begins to doubt who you are as a person, and you can 100% bet that she's going to completely toss your ass under the bus and rain hell down upon you before she verbally agrees to being a "sexual object that was used purely for sex."

Just make sure you've learned the lesson here. =)

- Franco

 

[Dylweed]

Thanks a lot Franco. Good lessons learned. I really knew sending that last text was a bad idea, it was just my ego tripping. I didn't sent it to try to fix anything, i knew the situation was beyond repair. i guess it was for myself for dumb reasons and i probably shouldn't have. I definitely won't send a text like that ever again.

She probably wouldn't have ever even asked me in person if i was sleeping with other girls because she would have been afraid of the truth but what if she did ask me while lying naked in bed? That'd be a whole different situation, would it have been a good idea then to let her know? Or should i lie to her?

 

[Thedoctor]

Dylweed,

but what if she did ask me while lying naked in bed? That'd be a whole different situation, would it have been a good idea then to let her know? Or should i lie to her?

There's no need to lie, just don't needlessly volunteer information. Girls will bring this up only when they want a relationship. In this situation, it only came up when you brought it up. Don't over-think this. Franco and Drexel's advice is solid.

-John