FR Shifting to neutral self-talk

[Railer]

I go out without any specific task - besides *not* trying to open girls without them giving an IOI first (as suggested by). I know that my product "night game" is currently "bad" for some reason. Without having any new idea on how to approach, I don't want to put it out there on the market and having to suffer the reactions. Maybe I'll even have to accept what I fear and tried to ignore for a long time: "Night game requires social proof."

One girl of my type is getting touchy with an average guy. I'm happy for them. I myself don't talk to even one new girl.

I talk to the club's new and sexy hostess, saying whatever pops up in my mind, but she seems very reserved ... and it seems to go nowhere. I'm on my way home and while I look at the street I walked alone so many times, I notice the usual sadness arise. Even though I didn't have any "super bad" experiences tonight, I realize that this street is already associated with that sadness.

I stop right there and sit down. I let my mind wander. During about half an hour these thoughts pass:

* "The hostess didn't show any IOI. She even just walked off when I was looking the other direction for a second - again! She had done that last week as well."
* "But I will not have added any experience to my night if I go home now - I will not have anything to write about in a FR"
* "I will be alone at home tomorrow during the day."
* "It's *possible* --- I cannot *know* if she likes me until I offer her a chance to find out."
* "Believe" (viewtopic.php?f=5&t=12003#p61541 - thanks lao che)
* "She's here from another country just for a couple of weeks by now - she must be happy to make new friends."
* "There were times as teens, when we went up to a girl against all odds and SIMPLY TRIED - And were so happy and even surprised, when she said yesss!!"
* "I'm just being selfish if I refuse to even try to figure out what the girl wants (https://www.girlschase.com/content/how-v ... luck-women)
* "I should at least give her the chance to meet me again - the earlier the better, because the more often I see her in the club, the more awkward it will feel to ask her out."
* "'The easiest thing I've ever done was to earn a million dollars. The most difficult thing I've ever done was to believe it can happen to me.' (Les Brown) I guess it would be just plain weak if I, in turn, couldn't believe I could date that girl."

On my way back to the club I wonder how I'd handle it if she's in a conversation upon arrival, but I *stop* the thought: Firstly, there's no way I could ever know what exactly will be the situation beforehand. Secondly, I realize I am imagining all the things that can "go wrong".

She's being hit on by a pretty handsome guy. He has his hand on her waist and in a moment she leans in. For a moment I wonder if he might be her boyfriend, because I interpret what I see as him being jealous about me standing there.

Anyway she blows him off. She calls him "Ricky Martin", so I point out that, being a girl, it may be quite hard to pick up Ricky Martin xD It's morning already. She puts on her jacket, so I tell her I'll accompany her some steps towards her home.

It's just around the block ... "What you say to having ice cream together today?" She doesn't answer directly. I let it flow. At her door we keep talking a little more and I finally get back to the topic. Neither of us has a phone so I remember her number. In case I don't remember it, *she* actually tells me an exact time I could find her right here at her place.

So I guess I got myself a date with one of those so-sought-after hired guns.

 

[lao che]

and ... there you go!

how did that work out, i'm curious to know


keep up the good work

 

[Ree]

Hey..i have u tried just approaching with or without ioiz....and
1. how are ur fundamentals
2.how are the competitions fundamentals

I get a lot of ioiz only when my fundamentals are way superior than everyone elses....but in areas whare everyones dressed up...i am just another guy...thats the reason where the best venues for pick up are not yhe places where people are dressed up....places where people have on jeans and a tshirt...and u got khaki and button down or a blazer...is the best

 

[Railer]

how did that work out, i'm curious to know

The next day at her door something quite unexpected happened.
More importantly, she neither showed up, nor responded to text or call.

I get a lot of ioiz only when my fundamentals are way superior than everyone elses....

Fundamentals? As in appearance?

I stand out in many ways (height, looks, clothing), which has me note two main effects:

1. Quite some IOIs when I show up
2. Extreme drop in interest afterwards (supposedly related to me staying on my own and not socializing)

 

[HellAtlantic]

Extreme drop in interest from who? You or the girl?

It's odd since it seems like you're a good looking guy, have the desire to go out, have the desire to approach. The disconnect seems to be in your interactions. Do you have depression? Low testosterone (perhaps you go out and approach because it's ingrained in you "this is what I'm supposed to do" but low testosterone makes it so that your inner caveman isn't saying "hit girl on head with club and take home").

I'm afraid no one on an Internet message board can make you feel one way or another. I think you can only hope to get answers on how to do things. But if you're cooking yourself dinner, going through the entire recipe and once it's done you sit down and decide "I'm not hungry. I don't want to eat." - no one can make you eat. You can only get the recipe for things here or anywhere in life. The desire to eat and enjoy it is all on you.

 

[lao che]

Some thoughts in no particular order

* so, you rock up to the club looking superfly, all heads turn to check out this shining star, and then... You stand around not socializing, not dancing... Only talking to cute girls. Thus the sudden spike then drop in interest. You just described your own sticking point.


* personally I've never seen the attraction of 'hired guns'.. She's getting hit on ALL THE TIME by, one assumes, better men than you.
She doesn't want to 'take work home' or babysit a customer in after-hours bar, or whatever else.

* why bother with night game anyway? Doesn't sound like you are enjoying the scene, having good times.. It's meant to be fun.

* are you familiar with the concept of 'anti-game'? Sounds like you have a lot of it.
Rather than searching for the right things to say/do, find out what it is about you that is repelling girls, and stop doing it.

 

[Railer]

Extreme drop in interest from who? You or the girl?

It's odd since it seems like you're a good looking guy, have the desire to go out, have the desire to approach. The disconnect seems to be in your interactions. Do you have depression? Low testosterone (perhaps you go out and approach because it's ingrained in you "this is what I'm supposed to do" but low testosterone makes it so that your inner caveman isn't saying "hit girl on head with club and take home").

I'm afraid no one on an Internet message board can make you feel one way or another. I think you can only hope to get answers on how to do things. But if you're cooking yourself dinner, going through the entire recipe and once it's done you sit down and decide "I'm not hungry. I don't want to eat." - no one can make you eat. You can only get the recipe for things here or anywhere in life. The desire to eat and enjoy it is all on you.

Very nice analogy.

I meant that the girl's interest drops. (Maybe that's just in my head?) As IOIs vanish, I assume they are "no longer interested", but thinking about it: Why should they keep staring if I don't make a move anyway?

On the other hand: When I decide to chat a girl up, they bail like in that one:

Upon letting the girl know that I'll head back to my friends, I offer to stay in touch. The blonde looks at her friend: "Do YOU want to?"

(from viewtopic.php?f=5&t=12002#p60545)

I sometimes think that my appearance causes ultra-high expectations on the girls end, which are then not fulfilled: "Oh, he's just another mortal."

Yes, I am coping with depression; Of course I am also having negative experiences when I am not actively "applying" pick up, but when I do go out for picking up girls, I am creating negative reference experiences much faster, which in turn creates a steeper downward spiral.

* why bother with night game anyway? Doesn't sound like you are enjoying the scene, having good times.. It's meant to be fun.

Because it's where the girls are ... and currently no type of "game" is really "fun" for me.

find out what it is about you that is repelling girls, and stop doing it.

Yeah, but how? It's not that a girl will explain what it was, when asked ><

 

[HellAtlantic]

I like you. At first I thought you were a troll but you definitely seem genuine.

I think we're similar in some ways. You, like myself, overanalyze situations and specifically with girls. I'm a good looking guy myself, workout 4x a week, good not great body, yadda yadda, and I have the look of someone who's swimming in an ocean of pussy but internally I struggle to quiet the overanalyzing going on behind the scenes. i tend to deep dive excessively because I'm a great conversationalist and having deep convos comes naturally to me (ppl open up very easily around me cuz I effortlessly create a judgement-free bubble) and then I miss the boat on sexualizing the convo and then when I try to interject that element I tend to feel as if it comes off as incongruent and out of place.

You also seem to do a lot of solo game, and I ride solo a lot. Maybe try to go out with a wing? Other guy might make you stay out of your head, might help you approach groups of girls easier and maybe make the initial part of the approach easier since you'll have help carrying a convo instead of having to do it alone.

If you're a good looking guy I hate to say it but looks really do make it easier. Your looks do most of the work for you, you just have to run "don't fuck up" game, or even what ppl around here refer to as "least effort" game. If you're a good looking guy the girl will be just as nervous talking to you as you are to them.

One of my best and most successful lines is this, maybe give it a try and see what happens (you gotta bring the right energy though, if you're a depressed person not sure how it'll play out cuz you need to have a twinkle in your eyes to pull it off):

You: (at the bar with your drink, standing next to girl): "I need to step away for a minute, can you watch my drink and make sure no one puts a roofie in it?" (Said with a grin)
Girl: (whatever she says, most of the time they giggle and say...) "oh sure, your drink is totally safe with me"
You step away for 5 min and return....
You: "hey thanks for watching my drink."
(Pick glass up as if to drink and right before you sip inspect it for a second and look at the girl and say) "hey are you sure no one put anything in my drink?" (With a mock skeptical look and smile)
Girl: (whatever she says, most of the time it's...) "lol oh I totally put something in your drink"
No matter what they say it'll be receptive and you'll have your jumping off point and away you go.

 

[lao che]

lao che wrote:
* why bother with night game anyway? Doesn't sound like you are enjoying the scene, having good times.. It's meant to be fun.


Because it's where the girls are ... and currently no type of "game" is really "fun" for me.

lao che wrote:
find out what it is about you that is repelling girls, and stop doing it.





Yeah, but how? It's not that a girl will explain what it was, when asked ><

You keep answering your own problems.

A guy on his own, in a club, not having fun, just looking to find a girl to hook up with. There is your anti game right there. Why would she want to go with you when she could be hanging out with a group of fun loving people having a good time in the club.

I'll ask you again. Why go clubbing? I have been clubbing alone plenty, but getting laid was just a hope。 the main focus was getting fucked up on drugs and dancing like a twat.
If you don't enjoy it then find another hobby. Because at the moment girls can see right through you and clubbing is making you miserable

 

[HellAtlantic]

lao che wrote:
* why bother with night game anyway? Doesn't sound like you are enjoying the scene, having good times.. It's meant to be fun.


Because it's where the girls are ... and currently no type of "game" is really "fun" for me.

lao che wrote:
find out what it is about you that is repelling girls, and stop doing it.





Yeah, but how? It's not that a girl will explain what it was, when asked ><

You keep answering your own problems.

A guy on his own, in a club, not having fun, just looking to find a girl to hook up with. There is your anti game right there. Why would she want to go with you when she could be hanging out with a group of fun loving people having a good time in the club.

I'll ask you again. Why go clubbing? I have been clubbing alone plenty, but getting laid was just a hope。 the main focus was getting fucked up on drugs and dancing like a twat.
If you don't enjoy it then find another hobby. Because at the moment girls can see right through you and clubbing is making you miserable

I like your bluntness. Here is the thing though:

Let's say an overweight person says to you "I workout constantly but I can't lose weight at all! Wtf?!"

You wouldn't reply "not having success working out? Then stop doing it. You're obviously not getting any results so why bother?"

You would probably say "well I've had success working out, I was overweight once myself. Here's some tips to maybe help you get better..."

It's always best to assume ppl are one or two tweaks away from achieving their goals than to have them pick a new path altogether.

 

[lao che]

i'm not telling him to stop picking up chicks. just stop going to clubs to do it.
if he's not enjoying being there then find girls someplace else.
also, he seems to want the validation of picking up a hostess but you'd have to be fucking good to hang around a club on your own. not having fun and obviously only there to pick up a girl , and still manage to pick up a hostess at a popular club.
although i can imagine the kind of guy that could pull it off.

 

[lao che]

anyway, i'm on your side, idiot (and you should still change your name)


this is an episode of the beige phillip show. guest is andy peeke, a stand up comic and fashion model, apparantly a very good looking dude. they talk about how he got played by his wife, due to him having no game, and despite being so good looking still had a hard time with the ladies.

http://beigephillip.com/2013/10/01/ep71-andy-peeke/

everyone should listen to beige phillip, by the way. and listen to all of black phillip, it's on youtube

 

[Railer]

Why would she want to go with you when she could be hanging out with a group of fun loving people having a good time in the club.

Got it. You're right and I hear you. Besides, I remember having run fun nights that went well, so it's not that I don't know how to do it. Just lost the spirit at some point; I'll get it back, though.

You also seem to do a lot of solo game, and I ride solo a lot. Maybe try to go out with a wing? Other guy might make you stay out of your head, might help you approach groups of girls easier and maybe make the initial part of the approach easier since you'll have help carrying a convo instead of having to do it alone.

Most of my guys are in relationships, but a wing or even going out with close friends would be nice. Currently I can only think of one, so I'll try and see if he's up to it

My other "friends" are female ... but I think they might be interested in more ... or there is already something going (every once in a while), so it would be rather rude to game when I'm out with them ... I suppose ><
(To clarify, as it might sound fucked up otherwise: Many girls who had time to get to know me due to certain circumstances oftentimes like me - what I'm struggling with are those cold-approaches to girls I want "too much" - in which I apparently don't leave an attractive impression.)

anyway, i'm on your side, idiot (and you should still change your name)

Name will be changed once I got any of those "my-type" girls

Thanks for sharing the link.