Should I ask what's wrong? Best way to proceed

[Fluxcapacitor]

I’ve previously bedded this girl a few times and we used to sext occasionally when either of us was working away between meeting up, it seemed like she went into a mood with me a few weeks before the virus but she started to warm up just before lockdown. Since the lockdown she’s been in a bad mood and has said that she’s really stressed with the virus and work. She’s seemingly uninterested in any playful/sexual conversations and shuts them down. I ignored her for a few days before contacting her again and she seemed happy to hear from me, after a bit of rapport/comfort building I had a great opportunity to turn it into a playful/sexual situation which she’s shut down again.

The delayed responses and rejecting playful/sexual conversations make me think she’s really not interested but her messages are twice as long as mine, she’s qualifying herself and seems fairly invested?

I’m unsure if she’s shutting it down because she doesn’t want the temptation to meet up in the lockdown, whether she’s in a mood with me for whatever reason she was before lockdown, if she’s just stressed or whether she’s just not interested at all.

If she doesn’t want the temptation, I don’t want the negative compliance so I’ll stop even trying to have fun.
If she’s in a mood with me I’m lost as to why so I wouldn’t even know how to solve it. – not that I could use preselection or social proof anyway at the moment.
If she’s just stressed her availability can change
If she’s not interested at all I don’t want to waste all the time in lockdown occasionally messaging her, it’s not productive and I don’t want to be an orbiter.
I’m wondering if I should ask her what’s wrong or dropping her a ball in her court type message so I know how to continue. I’m not too sure how to word:

A) Asking what’s wrong in a non-needy way:
You haven’t been like yourself lately, what’s on your mind/got something playing on your mind?
This is seemingly considerate and directly asks. However if she’s in a mood with me or stressed this makes me look socially clueless.

B) Ball in her court type message:
“You’re obviously really busy at the moment, I’ll leave the ball in your court for when you’re interested/have time”
This gives her an out if she’s not interested and an opportunity to tell me if she’s annoyed at me or just stressed.
(but if she just wants to talk or to keep me as an orbiter she’ll give a little bit more just to keep the attention)

C) Usually in this situation if I wasn’t going to next them just yet I’d message something like:
Hi NAME I guess something has changed and you don’t want to hang out anymore. It’s a shame because I thought you were cool but I understand.
Considering we can’t hang out due to lockdown makes this slightly useless.

Any thoughts to handling this?

 

[Razorjack]

I’ve previously bedded this girl a few times and we used to sext occasionally when either of us was working away between meeting up, it seemed like she went into a mood with me a few weeks before the virus but she started to warm up just before lockdown. Since the lockdown she’s been in a bad mood and has said that she’s really stressed with the virus and work. She’s seemingly uninterested in any playful/sexual conversations and shuts them down. I ignored her for a few days before contacting her again and she seemed happy to hear from me, after a bit of rapport/comfort building I had a great opportunity to turn it into a playful/sexual situation which she’s shut down again.

The delayed responses and rejecting playful/sexual conversations make me think she’s really not interested but her messages are twice as long as mine, she’s qualifying herself and seems fairly invested?

I’m unsure if she’s shutting it down because she doesn’t want the temptation to meet up in the lockdown, whether she’s in a mood with me for whatever reason she was before lockdown, if she’s just stressed or whether she’s just not interested at all.

If she doesn’t want the temptation, I don’t want the negative compliance so I’ll stop even trying to have fun.
If she’s in a mood with me I’m lost as to why so I wouldn’t even know how to solve it. – not that I could use preselection or social proof anyway at the moment.
If she’s just stressed her availability can change
If she’s not interested at all I don’t want to waste all the time in lockdown occasionally messaging her, it’s not productive and I don’t want to be an orbiter.
I’m wondering if I should ask her what’s wrong or dropping her a ball in her court type message so I know how to continue. I’m not too sure how to word:

A) Asking what’s wrong in a non-needy way:
You haven’t been like yourself lately, what’s on your mind/got something playing on your mind?
This is seemingly considerate and directly asks. However if she’s in a mood with me or stressed this makes me look socially clueless.

B) Ball in her court type message:
“You’re obviously really busy at the moment, I’ll leave the ball in your court for when you’re interested/have time”
This gives her an out if she’s not interested and an opportunity to tell me if she’s annoyed at me or just stressed.
(but if she just wants to talk or to keep me as an orbiter she’ll give a little bit more just to keep the attention)

C) Usually in this situation if I wasn’t going to next them just yet I’d message something like:
Hi NAME I guess something has changed and you don’t want to hang out anymore. It’s a shame because I thought you were cool but I understand.
Considering we can’t hang out due to lockdown makes this slightly useless.

Any thoughts to handling this?

I could be wrong since I don't have all the background details, but my theory is that she wants a more serious relationship and is possibly going a bit stir-crazy from the lockdown.

The clue is in the shutting down playful/sexual conversations (for more "serious talk" according to her) but at the same time happy to hear from you, writing twice as long messages, qualifying herself and seeming fairly invested. Her going into a mood with you, is possibly frustration from you not getting the hint.

 

[Fluxcapacitor]

@Razorjack dude! Thanks for the reply. This was my first thought when she went in a mood and started taking longer to reply but it was always going to be counter productive because I wasn't going to chase. We all know this would kill it.

I somewhat picked up on the hint but I'm not going to start chasing or trying to get into a relationship while she's being cool and aloof. Any ideas on how to handle this?

Additional background stuff
I kept cool, didn't react and acted normal despite her becoming aloof. She started to get a little warmer, I told her I wanted to see her before lockdown but we went into lockdown that night and it didn't happen. (I struck out with all my options like this Haha).

She mentioned how she felt trapped so I dug a little deeper to find out she was basically feeling depressed with work and the virus and lacking motivation. She started to become more responsive and investing more until she randomly went MIA mid conversation, she got back in touch with a really long message but it gave me nothing to work with which is when I ignored her for a few days.

I built some comfort and she gave some bull shit about replying late because she's not getting notifications but she checked her phone when she went to bed and got my message. So I playfully asked if she usually thinks about me in bed and so far no response. Totally shut that down and in such a way I'm thinking uninterested.

thanks dude

 

[Razorjack]

@Fluxcapacitor

I remember having similar discussions on mASF with Franco (Zarathustra_fi) and Jimbo, these 2 were the kings of managing MLTRs and multiple FWBs relationships.

What we discussed is that the best way to handle girls who are pushing for exclusivity or serious relationships is to give them complete freedom. You maintain your frame (that while she is together with you in your world, she will get your undivided attention, love, intimacy, mind-blowing sex etc but that you are who you are and that will never change) and she is free to stay or go, her choice.

Make no mistake some girls will leave, especially those who feel their biological clocks ticking. Others will stay but will continue to test you like your girl is doing. And there are a few that will gladly stay and completely accept the situation for what it is.

I think you are doing everything right, keep doing it.

One thing you may want to consider is Svengali's MLTR Theory, pure underrated genius in my opinion.

For those of you that don't know or heard of Svengali, he was the oldest guy (was in his late 50s) during the ASF and very early mASF days. He had more seduction experience (40+ years) than all of the "gurus" like Mystery, Ross Jeffries, etc combined. He was so advanced that his advice flew over the heads of most guys who were more impressed with Mystery's flash game.

Don't know if it's still on the internet somewhere, but basically he had an MLTR "hierarchy" where the women that he had the most in common with and gave him the least amount of shit got most of his time, including non sex activities like tennis, swimming, traveling etc. The women he had least in common with or that gave him the most shit about him being with other women got the least time with him. But they were all free to stay or go, their choice.

After so many years he learned to meet and approach women as he goes about his normal daily life (going out to nightclubs / bars specifically to meet women was eliminated a long time ago). So new women would come in, women would shift positions (higher up or lower down), while some would leave the "hierarchy harem" altogether. But this went on a continuous basis. From what he described it was a much less time and energy consuming way that he was able to keep doing it well into his late 60s and possibly even longer.

Hope this helped.

 

[Fluxcapacitor]

@Razorjack dude thanks for the very detailed reply. I've heard of the MLTR theory (didn't know who came up with it - svengali, I'm interested in reading more so thanks!) I think an issue for me at the moment with the outbreak is I'm not meeting other girls and I've got more free time and this is causing me to over think.

I see her shutting down attempts to be playful/ sexual as negative compliance, the more of this I build up the less likely I'll be able to bed her after lockdown. I'll also look socially clueless to keep trying when it's not working but it's all I've got to maintain my frame and keep the messages fun. Who wants serious conversation over text?

My biggest concern with this is wasting time on someone who isn't interested.

Thanks dude!

 

[Magician]

@Fluxcapacitor.... first of all I think you should be careful not to mistakenly fall in to the frame of neediness...it's possible that she's truly affected by the lockdown and got some emotional prob going on with her...I think you should go back to normal convo a bit..you know deepdiving..connecting with her on an emotional level.. get to know what her problems are...not forgetting to make her feel like you still want her sexually this helps you escape provider frame..I think this would make you look like a guy who understand humans and connects with them...not a guy who just wants sex Everytime...

 

[Fluxcapacitor]

@Magician dude! I have a conversation with her ask questions and show interest and tried to handle her emotions for feeling trapped with the lockdown. However I'm not her emotional tampon and I don't just want to be a text buddy, friend or orbiter so every once in a while I'll try and get the conversation playful and or sexual.

After she said she didn't get a notification for my text but checked when she went to bed and got my message I'd have missed a trick to not ask if she thinks of me when she's in bed. It's fun, playful, flirty and cheeky and it can either stop there or go further on her buying temperature.

You are right that constantly messaging repeatedly and getting shot down for playful conversations one after the other would be clueless.

 

[Razorjack]

@Razorjack dude thanks for the very detailed reply. I've heard of the MLTR theory (didn't know who came up with it - svengali, I'm interested in reading more so thanks!) I think an issue for me at the moment with the outbreak is I'm not meeting other girls and I've got more free time and this is causing me to over think.

I see her shutting down attempts to be playful/ sexual as negative compliance, the more of this I build up the less likely I'll be able to bed her after lockdown. I'll also look socially clueless to keep trying when it's not working but it's all I've got to maintain my frame and keep the messages fun. Who wants serious conversation over text?

My biggest concern with this is wasting time on someone who isn't interested.

Thanks dude!

@Fluxcapacitor

Just to clarify, there are several different MLTR theories, I just happen to think Svengali had the "best" one for me.

Yeah, don't be too hard on yourself for overthinking, happens to all of us on occasions.

My biggest lesson: Nothing kills an MLTR / multiple FWB setup (where the girls know about each other) faster than incongruency. Avoid it at all cost!

If you've done your part and remained congruent the whole time throughout, she may disappear for a short period to test you or because she met a guy but will come back because she misses what she got from you or the guy was a chode that couldn't compare. You need to give her the freedom to step away so she'll keep coming back.

 

[Fluxcapacitor]

@Razorjack thanks dude, from what you described I think it was svengalis theory I heard about. From all your posts I've read on the forum I greatly respect your opinion and find it resonates a lot with me so I'll start on his theory before looking further.

Thanks for the advice I try to keep congruent, but think the over thinking could cause some slip ups haha. The girls I meet always have the freedom to leave whenever they want, and most of them come back.

It's difficult for everyone running their usual style at the moment as the playing fields changed.

(On a side note I'd be interested in your proposed post on screening for an LTR. It's not what I'm looking for atm but think it's a skill that should be developed and could even used with an mLTR)

Thanks dude!