Should I even bother getting into online dating apps, paying for professional pics & training, etc?

[Spyce D]

I'm assuming that kind of work has been outsourced to the third world for like $5 an hour. Good luck

Where can I sign up

 

[Atlas IV]

Just wanted to bump this thread from last year which is an absolute goldmine of useful stuff related to online game.

Many new guys who are asking questions can learn a lot just from reading this thread. I would even vote to sticky it to the Texting & Online subforum (@Chase?)

Some posts that stood out for me:

Yeah I’ll give my input as somebody w/ +100 bodies from online..

Professional pics are unnecessary.

This idea that you need to be a 10+ man to clean up on the apps is quack also.

I’ve not had professional pics taken. The majority of my pics have been selfies AND i’m short and wear glasses and am an ethnic minority.

Disqualifiers out the way, here is what you do need to succeed online.

Grit: you need to learn & understand that rejections online mean nothing. Women are busy, inundated with thousands of messages from countless thirsty dudes and you aren’t important. Lucky for you you get unlimited tries.

Process: you need to hone and establish a successful process. Process is everything online. It should be to establish leads, qualify leads, close leads and get them off the app asap.

I’ve noticed a lot of slander of apps on here claiming it doesn’t work and it’s near impossible to gets dates.

I’ve kept quiet but i have noticed that the people decrying it failed to establish a winning process nor stick it out long enough to figure out how to gain success on the platform. I assume this is because online has been touted as “easy” which it isn’t , so when faced with pitiful results the conclusion is simply that “online doesn’t work and is trash”.

This is far from true, it is its own thing and requires an approach very different from other forms of game.

It requires systems, and one to think systematically.

The girl on the other side isn’t real until you meet her face to face (and neither are you). The guys i see that fail take online far too personally, before they reach this point.


The process:

ping - say or do something to get her attention

banter - get her complying, let her see you’re a normal person, find out why she’s worth meeting up with

qualify - qualify her on what you find cool about her

soft close - reward her compliance with an offer to meet you

get her off the app

hard close on your messenger of choice (avoid instagram)



This should ideally all be done within five messages.
Don’t waste your time in fancy flirting or trying to convince her to be into you. Do that on whatsapp once you have her number and when you have her on a date.

If at any point you face resistance move on to the next. No single lead is important until you have a date scheduled.

As for me, i’ve since quit online because it got too predictable and i find it boring.

I think i see where you guys are going wrong.

Online dating needs to be dealt with like marketing..

You need to think in “cohorts” and game cohorts not individuals. Create “funnels” and run your leads through these funnels.

The heart-on-sleeve, empathetic, inner game shit doesn’t start till face to face and i’m honestly starting to think cohort/marketing thinking can be applied to all game in some sense.

There’s no need for inner game online, you’re just pressing buttons.

Text goes in, pussy cums out.

Adjust the inputs until you receive favourable outputs.

Thing about female attraction is that it comes in two shapes... looks based and other. If you can throw up selfies and get 9+ ratings on photofeeler, you're in the first category. If even your best pictures come back in the 5-6 range, you want to build attraction in the "other" category. Apps aren't cut out for that... dating sites kinda were because you could still contact everyone, but with the apps you can't even message the girls who didn't already swipe you based on your pictures FIRST. Not saying it's impossible by any stretch but I'm saying it's a lot of work and in my experience investing that work in daygame will yield higher results.

All this talk about apps and inner game is just lolz

Guys she’s not REAL

She’s just some pixels on a screen. It doesn’t really matter and online will always be a numbers game

OLD is just marketing. Even if you’re not a model you can create a profile that is a certain “TYPE”

Girls are not only banging Chads and Tyrones online ya know

They bang… bikers, surfers, fit guys, metro guys, androgynous guys, adventurer guys, artsy guys

You get the point

If your profile demonstrates you’re a certain type you’ll get more matches and can then run them through a funnel to meet up for a date

Save all the game stuff for the date

TBH the way you guys are talking on here, I actually feel doing some online will improve your overall game

Because if you’re struggling to create some images of your archetype that can get girls to swipe on you, then your fundamentals and presentation could use some work

Just think about all the AI’s and improved hooks you’re gonna get once you upgrade your image

What I'm getting from this discussion:
1) guys that know how to run live game tend to struggle to get results on apps. Why? Because they think that they are projecting the same self-image on a virtual environment. Wrong.
2) those same guys, once struggling with apps, take a hit to their inner game. This is something that doesn't happen too often on live game with intermediates and advanced who already have experienced success.
2) too many people still putting too much focus on texting and other shenanigans. Apps are about pictures and numbers. If they dig your pictures, and you are putting in the numbers, you can run meh texting and they still gonna meet with you. If they are neutral about your virtual self, you have an uphill battle with your texting.
3) social media is not the same as apps. Apps are pure online. SM is a mix of online and social, even if done on a virtual environment. Very different approaches (only a few things overlap).

The purpose of online is to create a virtual archetype of your best self. Your pictures are there for this sole purpose. If you are short, bald, ethnic, etc, etc, own it, and run it with pride (like you would in real life). Girls that dig that archetype are gonna match and meet with you.

E.g. I'm tall, bulky and kinda nerdy. So that's what I run in all my virtual profiles. I'm not a tattooed bad boy. I'm not a sensitive romantic poet. I'm not the super extrovert who wants to be the centerpiece of the party. Tall, big, muscular, somewhat nerdy....all that in their faces right from the get go.

I actually got professional pics done by a guy who was some long time married dude who had no idea wtf is going on when it comes to pickup or dating and the photos performed like shit.

When I switched over to a guy who understood game, that's when I had success with the photos...

I'd say that pro photos help to the extent that they're designed to help and they won't help to the extent that they're just some random pro photos taken without any context to what women are most attracted to... at least that's my experience.

 

[Yaxir]

Just wanted to bump this thread from last year which is an absolute goldmine of useful stuff related to online game.

Many new guys who are asking questions can learn a lot just from reading this thread. I would even vote to sticky it to the Texting & Online subforum (@Chase?)

Some posts that stood out for me:

This is brilliant!

By far the best inner game advice for OLD is by @POB

The purpose of online is to create a virtual archetype of your best self. Your pictures are there for this sole purpose. If you are short, bald, ethnic, etc, etc, own it, and run it with pride (like you would in real life). Girls that dig that archetype are gonna match and meet with you.

Literally, MARKET YOURSELF on Apps. Apps are markets for selecting the most desirable (in the eyes of women) mate, based on what they present.

The better we market ourselves, the better our chances of meeting women who will dig the 'type' (or achetype) we represent on the cyberspace

I will now start saving money to invest in a dating photographer, as @Vision said, we need someone who understands game or at the very least the online dating market!

also, another thanks to @POB for his positive and encouraging advice

Don't wait.
Get the best pics now, replace them later when you buff up

I am skinny fat, trying to flatten my tummy and get muscle, so this applies to me

Thanks and Godspeed all!

 

[Atlas IV]

I will now start saving money to invest in a dating photographer, as @Vision said, we need someone who understands game or at the very least the online dating market!

Save your money and use Photo AI. It's insanely good

 

[POB]

Moved this thread to online, think it's better suited here.
And thx for the kind words guys!
Online just becomes autopilot once you get everything in place.

Though tbh you should never stop approaching IRL
Online is supplemmental at best, so don't ever use it as a cruch

Save your money and use Photo AI. It's insanely good

I see A LOT of women using it for their everyday pics.
It really works.

 

[Yaxir]

Moved this thread to online, think it's better suited here.
And thx for the kind words guys!
Online just becomes autopilot once you get everything in place.

Though tbh you should never stop approaching IRL
Online is supplemmental at best, so don't ever use it as a cruch

I see A LOT of women using it for their everyday pics.
It really works.

is there a good tutorial or post for using Photo AI? especially for Online Dating?

it seems like a very unqiue tool!

 

[Chase]

Just wanted to bump this thread from last year which is an absolute goldmine of useful stuff related to online game.

Many new guys who are asking questions can learn a lot just from reading this thread. I would even vote to sticky it to the Texting & Online subforum (@Chase?)

Some posts that stood out for me:

Done!

 

[alexlaguma]

Just wanted to bump this thread from last year which is an absolute goldmine of useful stuff related to online game.

Many new guys who are asking questions can learn a lot just from reading this thread. I would even vote to sticky it to the Texting & Online subforum (@Chase?)

Some posts that stood out for me:

Cheers for bumping this. Didn't know about this thread and I've learned a bit from just reading it.

Definitely think I'm one of those who was guilty of taking online too seriously and taking the rejections too personally. This year I've completely come off apps, mainly for that reason. I was taking the hits too hard, especially after chatting to a girl for ages and then just never meeting her.

I've got a bunch of girls on the go at the moment from daygame, but if/when that drops down I might jump back online and follow the process topcat set out here.

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

Here’s my 2c after 6-8 weeks of grinding online and a steep learning curve,

Firstly you don’t need to spend money on professional shots. Just put up own shots where you look as handsome and as a sexy as possible. Take a bunch and Ask some women which are the sexy ones. Likely it’s where ur not smiling a big cheesy grin , moreso a smirk and dressed well /stylish.
Definitely have 1 group shot of you out socially.
This is my setup;
Pic 1 - selfie , black and white , lightly smiling /smirking (closed mouth no teeth showing)
Pic 2- social group shot of me plus 1 dude friend and 3 nice looking chicks
Pic 3 full body pic of me , solo and outdoors just posing next a status on the foreground of a nice old building in a scenic country setting. To give an idea of my height and build but not too close up. I take up 75% of the height of the photo.
Pic 4 selfie of me at dinner at a fancy restaurant with a chick. I crop half her face out but it can be seen she’s attractive and it’s a nice place. I added text to name the restaurant and a French flag emoji
Pic 4 selfie half length in the mirror make a peace sign but also covering half my face with my phone
Pic 5 selfie of me pointing up to the window behind me to the city lights not far off (I have an awesome view of the CBD skyscrapers all lit up at night, and I’m wearing nice glasses ( not present in previous pics)

now I will add - all my pics are deliberately taken at slightly funny angles. Either too far out or cropped so a section of my face is missing or covered .
why is that you ask? Because In deliberately being contrary and be appearing to be half covering something up . I’m giving them a little bit of mystery and being deliberately annoying . That’s counter intuitive but it’s working better for me than my previous “ here’s me clearly! Look at me! Pick me!” .

It’s giving the effect of “he’s handsome , but it’s so frustrating how he’s cropped his shots .. I can’t quite tell how handsome he is.” Or else “ he’s playing a game here” or “ this guy doesn’t really give a shit “

either / either is good news for me.
Plus lots of preselection in my pics.

this may go contrary to the guides on here but this kind of Bio has worked better for me and in the past too.

good luck!

 

[Skills]

Here’s my 2c after 6-8 weeks of grinding online and a steep learning curve,

Firstly you don’t need to spend money on professional shots. Just put up own shots where you look as handsome and as a sexy as possible. Take a bunch and Ask some women which are the sexy ones. Likely it’s where ur not smiling a big cheesy grin , moreso a smirk and dressed well /stylish.
Definitely have 1 group shot of you out socially.
This is my setup;
Pic 1 - selfie , black and white , lightly smiling /smirking (closed mouth no teeth showing)
Pic 2- social group shot of me plus 1 dude friend and 3 nice looking chicks
Pic 3 full body pic of me , solo and outdoors just posing next a status on the foreground of a nice old building in a scenic country setting. To give an idea of my height and build but not too close up. I take up 75% of the height of the photo.
Pic 4 selfie of me at dinner at a fancy restaurant with a chick. I crop half her face out but it can be seen she’s attractive and it’s a nice place. I added text to name the restaurant and a French flag emoji
Pic 4 selfie half length in the mirror make a peace sign but also covering half my face with my phone
Pic 5 selfie of me pointing up to the window behind me to the city lights not far off (I have an awesome view of the CBD skyscrapers all lit up at night, and I’m wearing nice glasses ( not present in previous pics)

now I will add - all my pics are deliberately taken at slightly funny angles. Either too far out or cropped so a section of my face is missing or covered .
why is that you ask? Because In deliberately being contrary and be appearing to be half covering something up . I’m giving them a little bit of mystery and being deliberately annoying . That’s counter intuitive but it’s working better for me than my previous “ here’s me clearly! Look at me! Pick me!” .

It’s giving the effect of “he’s handsome , but it’s so frustrating how he’s cropped his shots .. I can’t quite tell how handsome he is.” Or else “ he’s playing a game here” or “ this guy doesn’t really give a shit “

either / either is good news for me.
Plus lots of preselection in my pics.

this may go contrary to the guides on here but this kind of Bio has worked better for me and in the past too.

good luck!

i would have one with a dog is missing.... Dog=safety and good convo started and pull excuse... helps a lot

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

i would have one with a dog is missing.... Dog=safety and good convo started and pull excuse... helps a lot

Ah yes , the dog pic.
I messed with adding one , where I AI removed my ex GF and replaced her with a Great Dane. that was too goofy tho

For me and what I want , there is mainly 2 criteria the women are looking for imo
1, is he a sexy /handsome guy
2. Does he look like he is currently banging chicks ( a guy who has a rotation going will be too lazy to do a great job on the OD bio)

women are always playing detective and backwards rationalising and looking at the details with a magnifying glass. So I try to crop out almost everything that can be a “giveaway”

my bio text section is very deadpan humour and poking fun at cheesy bios . Like a spoof James Bond character . Most of it is completely made up except for the important bits such as height, location and I keep it open re what I’m looking for,

Full disclosure - im not getting skyrocketing results with HBs but I’m definitely getting more interest than before and more my type of women. As my bio is bullshit , they poke fun off the bat and we can go into banter more easily. Less shit tests and sceeening questions . That’s my theory anyways .. I’ll keep posted the results .

this is David Deangelo / Brent Smirh type stuff I guess. Cocky funny or counter intuitive I’m trying for. .

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

Just spitballing and thinking off the cuff here.

the thing with OD is women are mega -perceptive when scanning guys bios. As they have seen SOOO many (x1,000) they thin slice and stereotype us all in seconds .. he’s Mr vanilla.. swipe mr creep ..yuk..swipe Mr Beige.., swipe Mr Outdoors adventurer.. Mr married.. hmm maybe… Mr Tryhard… swipe etc etc

they can see obvious details and information in pics men cannot or miss that they use to place the odds and categorise the guy then screen him out.

the match chat is not about connection afaics it more screening again ideally to screen a guy out .. not in!

So re the pics it’s this Honest Signals thing. To me. For the right guy, all the signals are there under the magnifying glass and it all lines up correctly across the pics.

with me, I’m trying to blur or slightly smokescreen my signals so they can’t get a proper read and hedge the bet the wrong way ( heh heh) if that makes sense

I had a good Brazilian player friend IRL who was a master at this. He was always playing high status and preselected when our gaming in bars and clubs (and wverywhere) and many dumb but attractive chicks would fall for it,

he was quite the bad dude tbh.

dishonest-honest signaling I suppose is call it. Or just … pretending

 

[Skills]

this is David Deangelo / Brent Smirh type stuff I guess. Cocky funny or counter intuitive I’m trying for. .

Very effective, is my style with a bit of sexual innuendos humor...works well..

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

Very effective, is my style with a bit of sexual innuendos humor...works well..

I got a text off a chick last night she said she loved the innuendo in my bio.I threw in a bunch of ‘cheesy’ Ross Jeffries old stuff.

How are you doing results wise. I agree it seems to be the way to go for OD.
I think negative attention and acting superior / lukewarm and toying is the way to go. Something struck me after a few weeks - if I piss a girl off by being “too superior “ it may frustrate her enough to re-like me later as I get put back in the shuffle after we disconnect from a match, I had one woman ping me this after I ended our chat mid convo (I just got annoyed with OD and disconnected from 4-5 chats spontaneously. She pinged after “ you’re so mean for disconnecting from me!”

boom - now she was chasing me .
She was not cute enough and curvy tho, but same ought to work on a better looking chick. Some player friends I’ve known did things like that. Shows massive cohones and willing to walk away / not taking it seriously etc etc. I’m sure the gold is in this method.

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

Following on from that last sentence. I recall chatting to a backpacker mate I worked with at a cafe here (Australia). He talked about this competition all the guys had going at the Hostel . ‘Who has the most Flags’ ie who has slept with the most nationalities at the hostel. The leader was some French guy he said, and when I probed him re this Frenchman’s method he mentioned after the guy bedded them he would just” toy with them” , and they would be mad chasing him.

that lined up with my Brazilian friend.
And another UK guy. I will say the 2 I knew personally were very “cute faced “/ baby faced guys. But it ought to work down the scale. Basically appearing to have options and being lukewarm is always good.