Situations you chicken to


Space Monkey
space monkey
Aug 9, 2017
I assume a lot of beginner guys here don't literally "open all" as Owen recommends. I mean we're all looking for that excuse not to, whether we realise it or not. Often when I see a situation that would take a lot of balls to go for, it can be a case of "well at least I'm making more of an effort than I was before" as my excuse.

Here are some situations (in bold) I've realised that I chicken to:

A girl spills some of her drink on you, and she happens to be bangable!

It happens everyone once in a while? Somehow feel that it's only in movies that the guy can use this to their advantage. You're trying to flirt them when they know you should be just cross with them, so I guess you're not congruent. Share thoughts

Girl talking with another guy and appear to be a couple

We've probably all seen Owen's video where he interrupts what appears to be a couple talking, asks them how they "know each other", and ends up gaming the girl. Well when I come across situations like this, I always assume they know each other. It takes some nerve to do that.

A group of girls (lets say 3) walking fast with purpose, one behind the other

GFor this I sometimes find that it's kind of "all or nothing" as regards jumping in to say hello. You need to go in with a 100% high energy and quick witted nature. The times I don't bother (most of the time), it's not because of the whole fear of self image idea, but more so that I know exactly what will happen. What I don't like is that I'm always undecided. And what I don't like is the idea that they in fact probably realise I'm considering opening, based on my body language in their peripheral vision. What makes it worse is when I've decided not to bother because they're walking by so fast, but then something blocks their way in the crowd and they're literally standing right next to me for 5 seconds or more. When this happens I'm again undecided, with the voice of "well why not?" coming back into my head.

Girl on dancefloor with the wall to one side of her, and her friends to the other side of her. What do you do Jack? What do you do?

When I'm going down a stairs as the girl coming up the stiars is looking towards the ground


Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Aug 15, 2018
The Old Continent
This seems to be an interesting thread.

Girl shopping with her mother for school supplies.
By her looks I reasonably assumed she attends the last year of high school this fall, just under 18, legal here.

Girl with her father.

I haven't seen Owen's videos you refer to (even though I've just happened to watch his Eckart Tolle video yesterday), but a link would definitely help.

It's also an important consideration to add here that you have to decide for yourself first whether you are in practice mode only with a particular girl or god forbid, you truly want to get to know her as a person.

Heck, it happened recently that I've found this girl to be, even though she wasn't the youngest in the crowd (18 year as the age limit), but somehow the most intriguing. She was with three guys, and I've even seen her flirting with a fourth. I just got to know her, so I went over to their group to say hello. I happened to befriend them and we even went to another club together. So here you go, one situation I did not chicken out.


Space Monkey
space monkey
Aug 9, 2017
Space said:
I haven't seen Owen's videos you refer to (even though I've just happened to watch his Eckart Tolle video yesterday), but a link would help
Sorry I originally posted this on RSD's site!


Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Nov 14, 2017
Good topic... gotta add some, cuz, oh, Gosh, I got a real shopping list! I do mostly day game.

I'll second the girls walking fast, and the girl with father! And to add to that:

On short notice

Those situations where I'm caught off guard and would have to open her almost the moment I first see her... I've just about never opened in that situation. I generally try to plan things out and mentally prepare myself in the moments before I make the approach, so if I don't have time to do that, it doesn't happen.

Girl in corridors of a mall

I've only done this very few times. I have a much harder time doing this than talking to girls in stores. I really need to attempt this more, although I do think it's genuinely harder because the few times I've tried usually didn't go as well due to the girl being on the move. There's also a (mostly irrational) fear that security will kick me out of the mall.

Sets with guys

Even when the sex ratio precludes them all being couples. Only time I've ever done it was when the girl was torn off and plus I was almost certain the dude who seemed closest to her was an orbiter. (She did turn out to be receptive, although I screwed up on logistics when she turned out to be a foreign visitor who didn't have roaming.)

And I'll second, if it's just a girl and guy, I never open these. I don't know, in day game I tend to think they're almost certainly a couple, but I bet I'm wrong.

Her hair is relaxed or she's wearing weave

This one's an issue for me because I specifically go for black girls, and it seems they're in straight hair (artificial) way more often than not... a fact which in of itself I despise.

The reason this one fucks me up is because I love natural afro hair and have come to use it as my go-to to give a girl a compliment. I refuse to compliment straight hair, partly on principle and partly because I'm not impressed by it anyway. With straight hair, I don't even like giving non-specific compliments like "you're cute", lest she think the fake hair was a contributing factor. (Yes, I despise straight hair on black women... I view it as a product of racist beauty standards and an insult to their beauty.)

So as soon as she's in straight hair, I have a crisis of what the fuck I'm going to compliment. I'm not one to notice clothes, and find it weaker on the rare occasions I do try. The things I actually like, like facial features, skin tone, booty, all seem either awkward and/or too politicized and/or against social norms, so it's not uncommon that my brain just shuts the whole thing down because it can't seem to construct a suitable action plan.

I don't always drop opportunities over this, but it happens way too often. It's also related to the next one...

She's flaunting high-maintenance "beauty"

I put the quotes because I actually don't find it beautiful. Gussied up, fake eyelashes, fake nails, fake hair... ugh. (I'd take this look over this look any day.)

Not only does it make her lose some value in my eyes, but it also makes her seem unapproachable, like she's probably sadiddy (uppity). Iroincally, I also view it as indicative of a lack of self-confidence on her part.

High fashion can also trigger this sense of unapproachability, though in the case of clothing, it doesn't degrade her appeal the way cosmetics do... just her approachability.

Middle-aged to older women

For some reason, they always look unapproachable. It's hard to explain, but they always seem to have this stern look on their faces or something. Combine this with the fact that they're not as attractive as the yonger ones anyway, and I almost never open them. Even though I probably should, as rationally, I imagine some are probably easy because their options are going down.

And on some level I assume she's probably settled down... which is ironic, considering that at least consciously I strongly believe monogamy to be a sham. Anyway, single women are common at all ages, so this isn't remotely rational even if I cared if she's single, which at least consciously, I don't.

Actually did open one the other day, - well, she wasn't that old, but a little on the older side, - and it went well.

She looks unapproachable

Don't ask me how my brain knows if a girl's unapproachable. It probably doesn't. And anyway, if she really does look unapproachable, she probably never gets approached so it'd be a welcome surprise... but tell my brain that.

Women in my immediate neighbourhood

This is really bad for me, considering that I'm in an area where black women are a good bit more common than the wider average. But I'm afraid of (i) a shitstorm of negative preselection if it doesn't go well, and (ii) my inexperience screwing up what would have been excellent logistics for a FwB. But the other day, I actually went for one in my building and got a number close...

Rare opportunities I don't want to blow

The more confident I am I can run into her again, and the higher quality she looks, the worse this gets. I figure I'll "save her for later" when I have more positive reference points so have a better chance of success.

This just bit me! Pretty much my definition of hot, i.e., very tall, very dark women with gorgeous, flowing facial features, happens to be unusually common in Africa's newest nation, South Sudan. But while I live in a microcosm of the world's peoples, South Sudanese females are only 0.1% of the global population, and the vast majority aren't here. In several years I've only seen maybe two. Well, one of them just happened to be working in a womens' clothing store in a mall quite close to me. Took a lot to not stare! I debated wandering in for her, but decided to hold off on just a wee bit more experience, because I didn't want to blow it. I knew where to find her anyway.

Well, just the other day, I noticed that store has closed down. What a stupid decision.

She's a customer and there's an employee nearby

The other way around is no problem. I'll brazenly hit on female employees in front of customers. Customers in front of other customers is not quite as easy, but if the other customer is not a preselection concern, I can often ignore them. Employee around another employee doesn't usually come up but also isn't quite as bad. There's just something about hitting on a customer in front of an employee that I find really scary... like I'm afraid the employee will give me trouble or kick me out for hitting on girls. Well, it's probably an irrational fear, but it's still there.

She caught me looking before I'm close enough or ready to open

Here, I get to thinking that I've already fucked it up by setting a frame of my chasing her, so I don't even bother.

We crossed each other's path a couple times before on the same day

(because I had moved into position to open but chickened or something messed me up.) I figure she might think I'm following her and now it's all screwed up.

Girls engrossed in conversation

This has generally always stopped me. However, I happened to do it recently on a pair of foreign visitors, and they quite readily dropped their conversation to talk to me, so now it doesn't seem like such a good excuse any more... even though it's a little scary...

After that experience I reasoned that you need to make a distinction between random conversation and something it's unwise to interrupt, like a heated argument or trying to work out some practical matter.

When you have the perfect opportunity to join the conversation...

...but you're afraid it would either (i) be rude to butt in, and/or (ii) let them know you were spying on them.

One example in particular I remember, where a couple black girls were shopping for shoes to go with outfits for a Caribbean event. Well, it happens that I'm quite involved in that event, both on the back end and as a performer. And I'm white. I could have jumped in super-easy and had enormous novelty, but instead I second-guessed myself, being afraid that they'd wonder what I was doing coming into an aisle full of womens' shoes, and/or think I was some creep listening in on them. Damn you, social anxiety, just, damn you.

Girls on their phones

This is one of few cases where I'm inclined to think my resistance is legitimate. However, from time to time, I've wondered...

I've spent enough time hanging out in stores and malls to actually have observed a woman come up and interrupt another woman she recognized who was on the phone. Now, they knew each other... but I'm not sure that matters...

There's another cutie nearby

If I were really good, it wouldn't be an issue, but since I'm not yet, I might get blown out. And if that happens, I automatically also lose the nearby one, too. Well, ok, maybe not, but I figure the negative preselection is really bad.

I have to assume this is affected by my definition of cutie being not entirely common where I live. Once, when I chickened for this reason, I asked myself what the hell I'll do if, as planned, I move to Africa... I'd run into this problem so much more! I quickly reasoned, though, that the abundance of cuties would probably more than cancel out the fear of losing the odd one to negative preselection.

I've noticed that women usually try to make rejections subtle enough that another girl would have to be pretty close by to know that's what happened. They know the game and they're not mean. But the risk can still can get to me.

Girls in the open parts of stores

(Especially in grocery stores.) Those parts of the store with waist-level bins instead of eight foot shelves, where it feels like just about everyone in the store can see you. To my credit, I've done it more than once, but I almost always chicken here.

Women shopping for kids' clothes

I can't drive myself to go in that section. I'm worried I might come across as a pedo. I guess I better hurry up and knock up a girl so I'll have a valid excuse to be there! LOL

Interestingly enough, I don't have as much trouble with being in toy sections, although I may resist opening a bit more, for fear she asks what I'm shopping for.

Makeup stores and bra/lingerie stores

I did discretely follow a girl into a lingerie store once, but that was in a mall that's not in my area, so I didn't give a shit and felt a little more bold. But those stores with all the fancy pink bras, never gone in one. And couldn't possibly imagine going into a Sephora or M·A·C! I've on very rare occasion put myself in the makeup section of a larger store, but even that is quite hard.

Realistically, I think it's just a mental block, and the reason I think this is because I used to be the same with womens' clothing stores, but I'll actually go in those now fairly routinely. I started by forcing myself to hang out in the womens' section of a big box store. I found that if I was walking down the main aisle and saw a cutie in the womens' section, I couldn't go in, but it was easier if I was already in the section, so when I'm wandering around, I'll tend to wander through womens' sections so it's easier to approach if I happen to spot a cutie.

Food courts

This is like a totally alien environment. I've never approached, and almost never even considered it. TBH I'm not even sure what to do.

It's a problem, because you are standing and she is sitting, so right off the bat you're at a disadvantage. Obviously you need to get sitting fast, but just how the hell do you do that?! All the possibilities I can think of are super forward. It's some scary shit.

Girls with headphones

I'm getting a little better with it and have done it occasionally, whereas I never used to, but my hesitation is still a lot higher. One time I gestured to my ears and she took the headphones off, so it's certainly doable.

Not sure which one I want

This is one place where my pickiness actually helps. I automatically want the black one, the darker one, the taller one, the one with natural hair, usually in that order, barring large discrepancies in overall cuteness. Usually that does the trick, but not always. The odd time I have choices that are kind of equivocal, I often don't open because I feel like unless I've picked one, I'm going to be undirected in my efforts and end up nowhere. I guess I should let them decide, but I'd feel strange trying to chat them up in such a directionless manner.

Set of more than one girl

This one was pretty debilitating, because even in malls, it's a fair bit more common for women to be in pairs/groups than alone. But in day game I just couldn't do it. (I had in night, but I barely do any night.)

It was bad enough that I finally put my foot down and said, "that's it, I don't get to masturbate any more until I've opened a multiple set in day game." A few days later I actually opened one of a set of about five rowdy freshman girls... really tall Somali... didn't go that well... her friends gave me this "ummmm..." look. But at least that barrier was broken.

That was a while back, but even now it's a fair bit harder to open multiples than singles, although I do do it from time to time. I usually try to catch one torn off, but not always.

Girl who might be too young

This one I've actually gotten a lot better at. Although our age of consent here is fairly low but with some caveats, at my age, going for a HS girl would be very scandalous at the least, so I used to be deathly afraid of hitting on a girl when there was even the slightest chance she could be HS age.

This was one of the earliest points where I realized that my brain was specifically looking for reasons to not open. (I spent some years staying away from women completely and unfortunately normalized that behaviour.)

I worked hard to overcome this one specifically, and so for this one I tend not to give a shit any more and I'll just do it anyway. It's a good thing, because I find that about half the time I think she might be that young, she's not. And even the ones who do turn out to be in HS, don't get offended. (In fact, some open really well... pity...)

However, there is a variant that still messes me up...

Girl with a lady much older than her

...who I assume to be her mom or elder relative, and then freak out and get scared that she might be too young and the older one will go ballistic. (I now have experience to know the younger one herself probably won't.)

Although I've thought of ways of dealing with this (basically, open both or even the older one first and then ask some questions to see if the younger one is fair game), I've never gotten the balls to actually do it. The only time I've ever opened a girl with her mom was when she was torn off and I hadn't even realized she was with her. This happens even when the younger one doesn't strike me as being that young.

Girl with kid(s)

It's not a matter of not wanting to, but more a matter of being scared the kid will mess shit up. I actually have opened a few, and sometimes it's gone well, but other times the kid really does complicate the stop.

The kid's age and how much the kid is trying to engage the mom also affects my perception of how practical it is. (I find toddlers easiest. Baby and I figure the girl's still in a relationship. Older kid can be too distracting.) And how many. I've never stopped a girl with more than one. And how large the set is. I've never opened where there was another adult with her, which is bad cuz two women and a kid is common.

There's also the factor that I've tended to have more problems getting these women out for dates due to their schedules and logistics.

Actually, I used to also be afraid that I was going to insult the girl because I was implying she must be a single mom. Even worse with her being black, since maybe she'll think I'm stereotyping that she must be a single mom because she's black. Wow, I actually have made some progress, cuz I certainly don't think like that now. Well, after several opened fairly well, that fear couldn't support itself. Fears do subside if you get enough data points that contradict them.

"Make sure your worst enemy is not living between your own two ears." -Laird Hamilton


Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Dec 17, 2015
ThePhoenix said:
She caught me looking before I'm close enough or ready to open

Here, I get to thinking that I've already fucked it up by setting a frame of my chasing her, so I don't even bother.
You took the words right out of my mouth. I only approach in those situation if I'm super amped up.


Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
Feb 17, 2015
Guys, for me, no matter how good I get with girls, I don't think AA ever fully goes away. I still to this day use every excuse in the book to not approach. The main thing I have going for me is to think about the girls that I have had. I get harsh rejections and like anyone else it temporarily hurts my ego and pride altho over the years, I've learned to let others affect me less.

I didn't see one excuse on here I haven't personally used, and I've definitely chickened out in ALL of these situations myself.

When I don't chicken out, or when I feel very afraid, I have to remind myself of the many successes I've had from cold approach... And not just great sex.

Some of the most meaningful relationships of my lifetime, nearly all in fact, have came from me grabbing my balls and approaching a stranger.

If you don't currently have these experiences to pull on for confidence, then keep having faith that someday you will, but only if you grab your balls and go approach. Also, always remember that rejection is part of the process. Typically the guys who get the best results get a lot of rejections as well. Im not going to add to the list here, even tho I am sure I could think of another scenario I chickened out to. Just wanted to comment to let you know that its normal, and it has never full gone away for me even after a lot of results.

It also helps me to use momentum. The more I have been approaching, the more likely I am to approach again. If I go through a period without opening, the AA is way worse those first few gals, and then it eases off a little. Never fully goes away though!

And finally just wanted to mention that you can use techniques in a few of these situations, but really theres no better or worse way than to just do a direct, or I usually go indirect/direct. Usually a make a situational comment, and say "hey you're actually really cute." It doesn't have to be flashy or situation specific. Telling a girl she's cute is almost always the best way in my book. You can get deep in nuances, but when you're on the verge of chickening out - anything is better than nothing. Just go direct and don't worry about the rest.

I also want to address, that in some of these situations direct may not be the optimal solution. But I think that even thinking about an optimal solution is counter productive until you can control your nerves pretty well. If you can't control your nerves yet, come up with a canned opener and just use it no matter what. "Hey, its a nice day today isn't it?" then no matter what she says. "No really I think you are really cute, how's your day coming?" . Or even simpler, "Hey miss, this is random but you are really cute, im radeng" -- you can find a million good openers all over the internet.

Which are better or worse is largely a matter of personal vibe and preference. Just pick one and force yourself to open with it.

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=34 I would encourage anyone having lots of trouble getting started or gaining confidence opening to do the newbie assignment here and start a journal. Journaling is the single biggest thing that helped me level up more quickly and consistently on my pickup journey.