Overdoze, thank you for the reply my friend. I find your thoughts fascinating since a lot of what I've studied has seemingly not touched on this, or has glossed over it.
Overdoze said:
you need to realise that its about what you emote or vibe. it radiates out. And all actions you do or try to add will flow of from this.
Also - you expect a hook from a hi opening to a stranger? Or a situational opener? You expect WAY too much from too little. Its a bit ignorant - saying not to bash but to help you be frank with yourself.
I shouldn't have used the word hook. You're right. I wasn't referring to 'the hook point.' But I think you know what I was trying to say. When I smile and say hi to 7+ girls, they do not 'hook' or 'take the bait' and smile and say hi back. I meant it more metaphorically, not the referring to the actual hook point.
i sense in your response a frustration that is rough and based on ignorance around the reality of a pickup situation.
Agreed! Also my mood wasn't great at the time when I wrote that which doesn't help... But yes it's getting frustrating. It's always been frustrating. I've been at this for something like 2 years. I've had to have hit 1000+ approaches now. And in that time, yeah I've learned and improved, but the results haven't ever really materialized. Sure I can get numbers and dates, but girls just aren't excited to be there. Probably half of my journal is about how when I get girls on dates, they NEVER warm up, despite following the best practices as best as possible. And when I see truly beautiful girls, they just aren't excited to receive my greeting. And when I read examples of interactions that other guys share, even new guys, where they share what the girl was saying throughout the interaction, my draw drops. If these FRs and LRs are accurate, girls seem to communicate very differently with other guys than what they say to me. I'm convinced something about me just isn't inciting sexual thoughts, but of course there's no way to really know that or troubleshoot that short of someone watching my interactions in person.
I've studied as best I can. I've read Chase's article 'When Your Approach Just Isn't Working' over and over, and I just can't make significant progress. And yeah I don't get it. Hence a thread like this.
the first point is JUST grabbing attention - the hi JUST puts you on her radar and if done out and about itll only make some girls say hi back. just getting this right is an art as its about HOW you captivate through pregame. Check out guns hovering as an example of HOW you can make her look at you first or start workign with her seeing you ( this creates the idea in her head that she LOOKED/Checked you out first flipping the social frame).
and drop all your ideas on how you think it should be what is creepy/weird etc. You dont know right now. It may feel odd to you.
Also from there in the next seconds and verbals its VERY easy to trigger a protective autoresponse from women where they pull back or eject or just move on since you are a stranger.
and if you linger too much the natural response is to move on.
so focus
1) on getting attention( hi or situational opener) - note there are ways to do this that are better eg proper lockin or movement patterns or side by side openings etc.
2) transferring into more - eg shift to curiosness as if she awoke that in you - wow you have an accent -are you xxx (minicold read her - misinterp on purpose)
3) establishing a short 3 min interaction
thats when you can expect a hook level to emerge in the beginning - eg by following a route like guns SMMA or alike.
note theres a certain flow across the 3 steps and mechanically doing it is weak. like bad sales people who just are talking heads but applies techniques.
later you can work on pregame eg smiling and making her look at you which will impact her better than smiling to her as you engage. just an example.
This is just fascinating to me because of all the stuff I've studied - GC, RSD, MM - nothing seems to imply that the pre-game and/or intro can be sooo vital. Like if you don't get it perfect, it's fatal. Everything has always given me the impression 'just go smile and say hi. what else are you going to do?' as if there's nothing to it. And also, if the idea is that you're turning yourself into a strong, confident man... well, such a man would just go for what he wants, no? He would be direct, smile, say hi, then a direct opener, something like that. It just seems to me to fly in the face of that spirit if the truth is actually that if you dare make eye contact and smile first, you're a dead man.
+ You really need to feel and manage your frustration to ground more cause its too strong a reaction for something like this. feel the frustration - take your time w this, the nuance of it and form it into progressive action. you need to sorta understand it from a more adult place in you.
This TAKES time to learn - its one of the hardest things in the world to do for real. And your own emotions and understanding is the first block for any realistic "seeing" of things.
sorry if unclear - wrote a bit as a flow. Hope you get my drift.
I'm trying my man. Check out my journal. I've been at this for approaching two years (only one year using the journal). Starting this very late in life. Also doing this all by myself. Haven't met another soul in the real world trying to learn pickup. I read everything I can and try to do it as best I can. But at the end of the day I can't figure out where I'm failing and why it's not working. For instance, I think I have a good haircut, but I don't really know. Same with wardrobe, same with my build, same with my personality (when I'm not frustrated and making posts on the internet!). But I just have no idea. So after trying my best and getting basically no results and no significant progress, needless to say, it gets very frustrating.
But thank you for the help. I appreciate you taking the time to share with me your perspective. I've definitely not thought of some of those ideas before. I've already started trying not to make eye contact first and to try to get her to look at me first. Eager to see how much of a difference it makes for me.
