Online & Apps Some Questions about the "Metagame" of Online Dating?

[YS.]

Alright guys,

I have been trying online dating for about a month now. So far, it has been a lot more successful than I've guessed it would be.

I have a few issues though, I can run an interaction there somewhat well. (Using qualification/investment model, mostly. With challenges thrown in.)

But I lose so many girls in my day to day lifestyle. I'm messaging a girl and then text her a few days later, she becomes SUPER COLD.

Or I flat out FORGET to text girls. I have many matches and girls messaging me and I haven't even opened the app for 10 days because it becomes a never ending texting shitfest. I literally get anxiety looking at the 6-7 matches and the texts I have to send.

So... How do you guys manage this?

ie: How often do you text girls? Do you continue the conversation after you've agreed to a meet? Instagram or Whatsapp? (Or just plan the meet on Tinder?) How disciplined are you about it? Do you keep it warm or succinct and to the point?

(@Seppeku said he did online game for 3 hours 9 pm to 12 every night for a long time.)

Online dating is kinda drowning me at this point having to message so many girls all the time and they all have expectations. I got this chick's IG from Tinder, we were vibing very well and she messaged me 20 mins late and I got in a call and didn't message her that day and then she became ice cold.

I know one or two people who have been semi successful at it and they're doing it 24/7. Literally messaging Tinder girls in front of me in a dinner. (LOL) It kinda consumes them.

What's the lifestyle/metagame of using Tinder? How often? How continuous? How warm? Most of the products are made for fucking retards who can't text girls at all so it just shows convos and texting (most IRL game products are the same, they never teach you about integration/lifestyle/optics/etc. just how to run an actual interaction.)

Most of my IRL friends are super used to me messaging them 1-2 days later all the time due to my commitments. In Tinder, these girls don't know me but I always feel compelled to keep it warm, when I don't they become cold and I'm kinda lost on the time frames. I literally feel anxiety to start texting because I feel it just wouldn't end until the date.

Alex from ex RSD says he just chats with girls low pressure for a long time. (A week.) Small back and forths, all day whenever he's available. And then sets up a meet. This feels the most suitable for me but I'm open to other opinions and methods of what you guys have been doing?

How do you put this into your life if you're really busy?

 

[Skills]

You have to put them on a funnel, did you read cocporn book, he goes in detail. However. You don't need to talk to that many girls focus on the hottest ones you vive with. Also from the get go I let them know that if I don't respond right away is cause I am busy which is why I do online in the first place.

 

[YS.]

You have to put them on a funnel, did you read cocporn book, he goes in detail. However. You don't need to talk to that many girls focus on the hottest ones you vive with. Also from the get go I let them know that if I don't respond right away is cause I am busy which is why I do online in the first place.

How much time do you allocate to texting? Do you just do it whenever within the day or are you more planned about it?

I don't want to "get in conversations" within the day. I got 2 dates off Tinder and both times I had to allocate 2-3 hrs at a time for the girls to warm then up over text. Both were massive time commitments for me.

I didn't read Cocporn's book, can you link it? Does it still hold up?

Edit: I think I found it. "Ignite." Just bought it. It's from 2014 though. I didn't even know Tinder existed in 2014, goddamn. I hope it holds up.

 

[Skills]

How much time do you allocate to texting? Do you just do it whenever within the day or are you more planned about it?

I don't want to "get in conversations" within the day. I got 2 dates off Tinder and both times I had to allocate 2-3 hrs at a time for the girls to warm then up over text. Both were massive time commitments for me.

I didn't read Cocporn's book, can you link it? Does it still hold up?

Edit: I think I found it. "Ignite." Just bought it. It's from 2014 though. I didn't even know Tinder existed in 2014, goddamn. I hope it holds up.

I text from my computer from Google voice when at work mainly,... I don't give online to much time, only when I started 3 years or so ago

 

[Train]

I think GirlsChase has an online dating book by Alexander Abraham if you're interested in that. Book seemed well-written. Didn't fully implement it yet though.

It was part of One Date, first module.

 

[YS.]

I think GirlsChase has an online dating book by Alexander Abraham if you're interested in that. Book seemed well-written. Didn't fully implement it yet though.

It was part of One Date, first module.

Does it answer my questions? Most online dating material is about how to text a girl. I'm not interested in that. I'm interested in the metagame of it. When, how often, in what frequency, how much time to allocate, what's the framework of action, etc.

 

[ulrich]

Does it answer my questions? Most online dating material is about how to text a girl. I'm not interested in that. I'm interested in the metagame of it. When, how often, in what frequency, how much time to allocate, what's the framework of action, etc.

Just look at Chase´s articles on texting.
I feel that by going "meta" you are overthinking it. This is no rockert science.

 

[YS.]

Just look at Chase´s articles on texting.
I feel that by going "meta" you are overthinking it. This is no rockert science.

Hey uriel,

I literally pinpointed the exact issues I'm having in the OP. Losing girls over not texting them for a while. Having anxiety over leads and trying to juggle them, texting taking way too much time & commitment, etc.

I wonder how other people handle this. If you actually have advice, I'd appreciate it.

 

[Skills]

Hey uriel,

I literally pinpointed the exact issues I'm having in the article. Losing girls over not texting them for a while. Having anxiety over leads and trying to juggle them, texting taking way too much time & commitment, etc.

I wonder how other people handle this. If you actually have advice, I'd appreciate it.

Yeah I didn't expect for you to buy any books, you don't need books, you will get your own feel and style for things. Even if you do everything right you are going to lose girls anyways. What worked for me is massive screening and focusing more in less prospects. Cocporn was giving the book for free to members

 

[YS.]

Yeah I didn't expect for you to buy any books, you don't need books, you will get your own feel and style for things. Even if you do everything right you are going to lose girls anyways. What worked for me is massive screening and focusing more in less prospects. Cocporn was giving the book for free to members

I have no problem throwing 5$ to Cocporn.

Also... I've read 10-20 pages. The book seems insanely good so far. Really wasn't expecting that.

Can you open up "massive screening"? Do you have a massively screening profile and/or open with sth. very polarizing?

And BTW Skills, the book seems EXACTLY what I'm looking for. "Momentum." "Funnels." "How often to text." A lot of game outside the game concepts with really in-depth explanations. I'm gonna devour it.

 

[ulrich]

Hey uriel,

I literally pinpointed the exact issues I'm having in the OP. Losing girls over not texting them for a while. Having anxiety over leads and trying to juggle them, texting taking way too much time & commitment, etc.

I wonder how other people handle this. If you actually have advice, I'd appreciate it.

OK.

For losing girls over not texting them for a while:
Get their phone numbers ASAP. If you have not gotten her number after 2 days of texting the chance is already gone.

For taking to much time to text:
One day without texting is too much. Any less than that is acceptable. Any girl with a lower attention span is very likely to make you lose your time.

Anxiety, shame, insecurity:
You need to get experience to overcome those feelings. No theory is going to help you here. Get in field. Date 20 of these girls and the computer in your brain will start to see the hidden patterns.

The things you ask and how much detail you want before acting tells me that you are heading to an information overload.
Hence why my original advice of "it's time to act not think".

 

[ulrich]

On a side note, I feel important to remind everybody that this is a number's game.

You are going to lose some girls because you reply too fast and they think you are desperate.
You are going to lose some girls because you reply too slow and they think you are uninterested.

You are going to lose a big number of girls for opposing extreme reasons. If you don't have enough volume you can't tell if the actions of a particular girl are normal/reasonable or you're fucking up.

 

[YS.]

OK.

For losing girls over not texting them for a while:
Get their phone numbers ASAP. If you have not gotten her number after 2 days of texting the chance is already gone.

For taking to much time to text:
One day without texting is too much. Any less than that is acceptable. Any girl with a lower attention span is very likely to make you lose your time.

Anxiety, shame, insecurity:
You need to get experience to overcome those feelings. No theory is going to help you here. Get in field. Date 20 of these girls and the computer in your brain will start to see the hidden patterns.

You really didn't understand me very well but it's OK. I had 3 dates in the last 10 days.

I'm 100% gonna have days w/o texting.

I'm trying to learn the metagame of this shit. Do I have to text every day? How often? How long the interactions should take? (I usually like to build comfort & investment over text. Takes a while. Always a good convo but takes a while.) How long should I take before going for the date? How much time should I allocate for this? The book recommended above actually goes over this (which shocked me TBH, usually pickup books are super shallow.) in the momentum chapters.

I get anxiety not because of the girls but because I fear I'm gonna be stuck with the phone in my hand for the next 6 hours with no end in sight juggling multiple girls thus completely ruining my day. And I don't exactly know what to do with it...

There are MANY ways of going about this. (Trust me, I've been researching. Almost everyone has a different method.) So I just wanted to ask for some opinions for people with results and gather some perspectives. The 9 to 12 PM thing of Seppeku was really important as a benchmark for me.

Almost all of the dates I've been on involved going back on forth on Tinder for a few days so I'm gonna have to disagree on the "chance already gone" thing. But again, I'm looking for different viewpoints so it's cool.

But with the info you gave, I'm gathering data and we're going somewhere...

On a side note, I feel important to remind everybody that this is a number's game.

You are going to lose some girls because you reply too fast and they think you are desperate.
You are going to lose some girls because you reply too slow and they think you are uninterested.

You are going to lose a big number of girls for opposing extreme reasons. If you don't have enough volume you can't tell if the actions of a particular girl are normal/reasonable or you're fucking up.

I agree.

 

[Skills]

I have no problem throwing 5$ to Cocporn.

Also... I've read 10-20 pages. The book seems insanely good so far. Really wasn't expecting that.

Can you open up "massive screening"? Do you have a massively screening profile and/or open with sth. very polarizing?

And BTW Skills, the book seems EXACTLY what I'm looking for. "Momentum." "Funnels." "How often to text." A lot of game outside the game concepts with really in-depth explanations. I'm gonna devour it.

Yes that is why i recommended the book cause popcorn goes deep into systems/and funnels (cocporn is good at game in general not just online, also carousel help with the book).... I just personally use online as a diversification lets say i have 50 % on blue ship stocks, 30% in real estate, 15% in bonds, 5 % in crypto.... online is my 5%, so i never cared of devoting vast amount of time on online, after couple of months of learning period which was exiting, after i conquered it, i got totally bored.... But you are going through similar stuff i went through... yes my profile massively screens here it is:

Name “latinvindiesel” (right of the back, I am screening for women that are attracted or want to fuck the actor Vin Diesel)

Title: I will tell you later… ( this is a bit cocky to spark curiosity and have them check my profile)

Recently out of a 10 year relationship (this is kind of bull shit but if you are out of a relationship or just moved to a city, it will make you more attractive to women based on studies)…I used to make fun of people doing online dating, unfortunately I have to eat my own words, since I have gotten really busy lately. ( I want to convey that the ONLY reason i am online is cause I am busy and i have no problem meeting women in real life, which is the truth by the way)

It actually takes 3-6 months minimum just to get an idea of somebody, so anything I write in here about me is pointless….(here i am setting up my poly frame kind of, remember guys i tell the women when they ask if i have a girlfriend that i date and after i date and get to know them and we have to be exclusive, i have the POTENTIAL TO BE EXCLUSIVE).. With that being said this is a general idea of my pros and cons…(all my pros is shit that women droll over, specially height)

Pros:
tall (for the girls that like to wear heels)
fun
good with people
charismatic
I understand women (most guys are clueless)
Good family
no drama
good dancer
not needy
Truly single by choice (not living with a girl, or ex-wife or none of that drama that most guys here have)
Good at getting hints and sub-communication
I do not MASS message women here, like most dudes (I usually send maybe one message to a new girl a month, if any, so if I message you is cause based on experience I think there could be a possibility).
Not a nice guy (a needy pushover)
Not an asshole (aka overcompensating arrogant Jerk)
But a good guy (a cool guy with boundaries and easy to get along with)

Cons:

I am busy and sometimes need my space to work on my projects (keep this in mind if i do not message you right away)
not the jealous type
blunt/straightforward/polarizing
ball buster

Please do not message me if:

Stripper (it never works out), ass implants, transvestite/ transgender (not that is anything wrong with that), you are looking for a sugar daddy, you live more than 20 minutes away (sorry), if you look in person like you ate the person in the picture you originally posted, if you have a lot of masculine energy, I am a masculine alpha man looking for a feminine girl.

Dates:

Traditional Dates are boring(dinner and a movie), 2 strangers in a sea of awkwardness, I would rather do something more spontaneous such as dancing,play pool, live band, or walking at the park, mall, beach etc…

What do I look for:

Personality (good vibe, cool and easy to get along, your life together, low to no drama), looks (you take care of yourself), performance (you are not a dead fish in bed)

Last:

Again, If I message you is because I am interested, if I take too long to reply is NOT because I am playing “too cool for school”, but because I am genuinely busy (which is why I am here in the first place).

Converstion starters:

Just a small town girl
Livin’ in a lonely world
She took the midnight train
Goin’ anywhere

What goes next????

 

[Tank]

There are a lot of hidden time costs. In order to minimise the stress of it while maximising the return, dedicate an hour or so twice a day to message all your currently ongoing leads. Yeah this element kind of sucks

 

[DoWhatWorks]

Hi @YS.

I really like your posts as like me game is a part of your life and *NOT* your whole life. Efficiency is key.

When I used Tinder this worked for me:

1.Similar to Skills I polarise with my profile.

I wrote very little to show minimal investment as most girls had no bio. I.E I like xyz music, live in this area & I’m busy/ a terrible texter so please don’t take it personally.

2. Opening Messages

Pictures are 90% online but the other 10% is getting her out of autopilot. Any short open question based on her profile that can’t be answered with 1 word is fine. E.g. Hey why do you love xyz so much?


3. I got the number asap

Usually 5-7 back & forth messages before getting the number. I would do this at a fun high point of the conversation & any response other than a number got deleted as I learnt it wasn’t worth it


4. Straight to the point for dates

I’ll send a voice note msg proposing when she’s free for a drink. If she was busy I would try once more a week later before deleting her number.


Whole process took 7-10 days from message to date with minimal contact in between. To reduce flakes do mini-deep dives in your voice note conversation and confirm 1 day before but honestly you would be surprised how many girls show up with minimal conversation.

What I like about a process is that even if girls flake you didn’t spend much time on them anyway and it allows you to focus on only promising ones.

Looking forward to your insights man

 

[YS.]

Hi @YS.

I really like your posts as like me game is a part of your life and *NOT* your whole life. Efficiency is key.

When I used Tinder this worked for me:

1.Similar to Skills I polarise with my profile.

I wrote very little to show minimal investment as most girls had no bio. I.E I like xyz music, live in this area & I’m busy/ a terrible texter so please don’t take it personally.

2. Opening Messages

Pictures are 90% online but the other 10% is getting her out of autopilot. Any short open question based on her profile that can’t be answered with 1 word is fine. E.g. Hey why do you love xyz so much?


3. I got the number asap

Usually 5-7 back & forth messages before getting the number. I would do this at a fun high point of the conversation & any response other than a number got deleted as I learnt it wasn’t worth it


4. Straight to the point for dates

I’ll send a voice note msg proposing when she’s free for a drink. If she was busy I would try once more a week later before deleting her number.


Whole process took 7-10 days from message to date with minimal contact in between. To reduce flakes do mini-deep dives in your voice note conversation and confirm 1 day before but honestly you would be surprised how many girls show up with minimal conversation.

What I like about a process is that even if girls flake you didn’t spend much time on them anyway and it allows you to focus on only promising ones.

Looking forward to your insights man

Hey buddy,

Glad you liked my previous stuff. Thank you so much for taking the time to help me.

1) Yeah, I'm trying a disqualifier in the bio and working well so far. I put the I won't text you back quickly thing but then removed it. Will test.

2) Yeah, I use a default "gauge interest" kind of message and calibrate from there. If she's down, I run investment/comfort; if she's blase I run some attraction. (Mostly callouts. Turns around so many sets, lol.)

Any sort of smart messages I've come up with to me felt like I overinvested. Especially if she was already down. I found breaking her frame after getting a low investment response is a better strat but I'm testing everything.

3) Yeah, I should get the number earlier as a way to "continue the convo". I always arrange the date on Tinder and then get the number for last minute logistics, investment & optics. Lost a few girls who deleted the app and similar things.

4) Yeah, I've started to frame meeting up as much more casual and normal now and start to suggest it earlier and earlier. I jsut set up a date after 15-20 mins of texting. I'm also pretty good at low investment invites.

I have a Q. So you get the number on Monday and set up the date on Sunday. Do you keep the lead warm at all? It's a week off in the future and from a 15 min text convo. I haven't figured this out yet.

Can you go a bit more in depth on what you'd do here?

 

[DoWhatWorks]

No worries at all man.

1) Great stuff adding a disqualifier lets you set an ideal frame from the start

2) That's a solid point regarding calibration and call outs! I personally never bothered with blase girls and focused on the "yes" ones who were into me right away but I likely missed out on a few girls doing that.

I think you can get away with smart as long as it's short and low effort. My go to default line was along the lines of "Hey how do you work & play?". If the girl's super into you, you can get a paragraph response from this alone. Otherwise you play it by ear and run attraction if needed.

3) Yeah definitely a quick win for you here to get the number after your first high point in the conversation. It's never an issue if they're genuinely interested.

4) Sweet it sounds like you're a few tweaks away from consistently killing it.

To answer your question you should still try to move as quickly as possible to keep the momentum (because life happens)

In order of preference:

A) You ask her when she's free and she gives you a time in the near future e.g. day after tomorrow

B) You ask her when she's free and she says "whenever" so you propose a date 2 days away i.e Wednesday evening if talking on a Monday

C) For whatever reason she's only free a week away, I'd secure a date,place and time so that it's real. You want to avoid generic drink statements! Get compliance I.E "This Sunday afternoon at 3pm we'll get a drink at Charlie's by the river, how's that sound?... We can confirm closer to the time"

You almost want a bit of push back around the time or location as then you know she's taking it seriously.

When taking the C route a "keep warm" text is your call. Personally I avoid it because thinking ahead if I sleep with this girl in the near future while barely texting her, that's my normal pattern of behavior and it won't seem odd if I continue to not text her. If I do text her however and slip into potential boyfriend category I'm adding work to my future self as she'll see me as a guy who will text her for chit chat which simply isn't me lol.

With that said I think you can make the exception for low effort situational texts like "Merry Christmas Anna " or "hope you enjoyed the long weekend!" As long as it's short and sweet texts to keep yourself front of mind, without opening up yourself to have a conversation.

For me though 1 week is short enough to simply text her 1 day before to see if she can still make it or 2 days at the earliest if I'm really into it and want to minimize the flaking chances further.

To put it in perspective, my longest text to date length was 2 weeks and she reminded me! Admittedly this was for a 2nd date though.

P.S Bonus tip aim for Friday evening drinks instead of Sunday, I've lost a fair share of girls to hangovers lol.