Socializing Starting to feel defeated

[moom]

Been reading and applying things from GC for 10 years.

Last night I threw a party for Holloween.

Girls just don’t get hooked to me the way they do to my friends?

I feel like I’ve got a fight an uphill battle constantly, no matter how much I get my fashion or other fundamentals handled.

I’m a 5’9” brown guy.

Take for example last night- I have a friend who had a girl that liked him and she pretty much just hovered over him all night. (I liked this girl too but he outcompeted me without even doing anything)

At the same time, there was another girl that was into my friend first but since he was occupied with that girl, she came to me. We made out a bit, but she broke up with her ex literally 2 days prior and she was just going on a “i dont give a fuck, let me make out with a bunch of guys” streak.

I’m so tired of a being a second choice guy a majority of the time. It almost feels like girls wont chase me and I always have to be the one that re-engages.

These days I refuse to sleep with girls that aren’t 100% into me or showing signs of chasing.

Am I fucked? How do I actually get girls that want me for me?

 

[Rakehell]

I find it hard to believe you’re nobodies first choice.

Is it that all girls choose your friends over you or the girls that you want are the ones who choose your friends first?

The way this is written reminds me of the kid who doesn’t want a toy until someone else is playing with it.

Are your friends even sleeping with these girls?

It seems like you’re more worried about being better than them than actually getting the girl.

 

[Skills]

i have been second and third choice probably worst...... once your dick is inside her pussy walls who cares...... And again after 3 times if you fuck her right, in her mind you were always her first choice backwards rationalization...

 

[moom]

I find it hard to believe you’re nobodies first choice.

Is it that all girls choose your friends over you or the girls that you want are the ones who choose your friends first?

The way this is written reminds me of the kid who doesn’t want a toy until someone else is playing with it.

Are your friends even sleeping with these girls?

It seems like you’re more worried about being better than them than actually getting the girl.

You’re right about this I think. My competitive nature is stupidly making me want to do better than my friends rather than focusing on the girl.

I’ve also got this entitlement mentality where I feel like if she’s not chasing after me or showing strong signs of interest (talking specifically about night game here), then I don’t want anything to do with her

 

[moom]

i have been second and third choice probably worst...... once your dick is inside her pussy walls who cares...... And again after 3 times if you fuck her right, in her mind you were always her first choice backwards rationalization...

Am I entitled for wanting her to chase me? Sure, I can chase after her and probably even get the lay but the feeling of being desired never comes

 

[topcat]

What @Skills said.

I'll also add that you are too focused on the reactions men are getting from women as opposed to the results.

Chase outlines this idea here.

Part of the high I get from being a seducer is that, as a seducer we are able to overcome what should be, and get what we are otherwise not entitled to, or shouldn't get from a societal standpoint.

Sure those guys at your party are being chased by girls, but when given a window do they close?

Are they fucking any of these girls?

How many have they retained?

After 6 months of fucking how smitten are these girls with them?

Stop fantasizing about what others may or may not be getting. Or what others may or may not be entitled to.

Instead go hack the system to work in your favor. Get results. Fuck reactions

 

[moom]

What @Skills said.

I'll also add that you are too focused on the reactions men are getting from women as opposed to the results.

Chase outlines this idea here.

Part of the high I get from being a seducer is that, as a seducer we are able to overcome what should be, and get what we are otherwise not entitled to, or shouldn't get from a societal standpoint.

Sure those guys at your party are being chased by girls, but when given a window do they close?

Are they fucking any of these girls?

How many have they retained?

After 6 months of fucking how smitten are these girls with them?

Stop fantasizing about what others may or may not be getting. Or what others may or may not be entitled to.

Instead go hack the system to work in your favor. Get results. Fuck reactions

This was incredibly well said. It reminded me why I got into this game in the first place, thank you.

 

[topcat]

This was incredibly well said. It reminded me why I got into this game in the first place, thank you.

you're welcome bro

 

[Rakehell]

the ideal that girls have to show a certain threshold of interest overlooks about 40% of girls who are too shy to show interest outright

most of the time girls who want you the most won’t even beable to acknowledge you because you’ll make them nervous

im plagued with this sometimes perceived disinterest is actually overwhelming interest

this includes girls who come off bitchy or mean then warm up its a defense mechanism a reflex

 

[mist]

Been reading and applying things from GC for 10 years.

Last night I threw a party for Holloween.

Girls just don’t get hooked to me the way they do to my friends?

I feel like I’ve got a fight an uphill battle constantly, no matter how much I get my fashion or other fundamentals handled.

I’m a 5’9” brown guy.

Take for example last night- I have a friend who had a girl that liked him and she pretty much just hovered over him all night. (I liked this girl too but he outcompeted me without even doing anything)

At the same time, there was another girl that was into my friend first but since he was occupied with that girl, she came to me. We made out a bit, but she broke up with her ex literally 2 days prior and she was just going on a “i dont give a fuck, let me make out with a bunch of guys” streak.

I’m so tired of a being a second choice guy a majority of the time. It almost feels like girls wont chase me and I always have to be the one that re-engages.

These days I refuse to sleep with girls that aren’t 100% into me or showing signs of chasing.

Am I fucked? How do I actually get girls that want me for me?

I thought I ran into this issue yesterday, but really this was just an issue of running proper escalation, isolation, intent, closing, and volume.

I’m concerned why you didn’t take advantage of logistics and why you didn’t use your friends to distract potential cockblocks rather than compete.

1. Epic post from Tony D about navigating hosting a party

Get Laid Like a Rock Star by Throwing House Parties

Want to know a perfect way to get social proof, pre-selection, and women fighting over you… all in the comfort of your own home? Throw a house party! My late twenties were some of my most glorious times. I lived with a bunch of hipsters in a huge apartment in downtown Vancouver. I was going out...

www.girlschase.com

2. How Alek and Chase Host and Throw parties

A. https://www.girlschase.com/content/how-plan-party-makes-you-friends-and-gets-you-girls

B. https://www.girlschase.com/content/how-host-after-party-gets-you-laid

Overall I think you’ll be good. Just gotta get over some hang ups and seize opportunity by the balls.

Cheers

 

[moom]

I thought I ran into this issue yesterday, but really this was just an issue of running proper escalation, isolation, intent, closing, and volume.

I’m concerned why you didn’t take advantage of logistics and why you didn’t use your friends to distract potential cockblocks rather than compete.

1. Epic post from Tony D about navigating hosting a party

Get Laid Like a Rock Star by Throwing House Parties

Want to know a perfect way to get social proof, pre-selection, and women fighting over you… all in the comfort of your own home? Throw a house party! My late twenties were some of my most glorious times. I lived with a bunch of hipsters in a huge apartment in downtown Vancouver. I was going out...

www.girlschase.com

2. How Alek and Chase Host and Throw parties

A. https://www.girlschase.com/content/how-plan-party-makes-you-friends-and-gets-you-girls

B. https://www.girlschase.com/content/how-host-after-party-gets-you-laid

Overall I think you’ll be good. Just gotta get over some hang ups and seize opportunity by the balls.

Cheers

Super helpful, thank you

 

[happynanako]

I don't think it matters if which choice you are because the fact that she chose you means you are the main choice. Yes it feels bad but have you ever done that to girls too?

Ever gone to Mcdonalds to realise the queue are too long and you switch to KFC?

Sometimes, it's not about the looks but the characters and how they can click.

If they are just fk girls, then screw it, we don't want those. That is for me

 

[ElderPrice]

Was thinking of posting a similar thread on the subject of attraction - literal attraction.

Like the OP, I too have struggled the entire time during my journey of literally drawing women to me, and often I see my friends draw women in even though they aren't models. They just stand there at a club and an attractive woman will find her way next to him and throw IOIs. I try as best as possible to replicate their behavior/body language and it doesn't happen to me. Only trait I notice that stands out to me is that I'm short and they're not.

Even regardless of my friends, I see this lack of attraction just in my day to day: For instance, if I sit down at a coffee shop, attractive girls won't sit near me. If I go to the bar to grab a drink, girls won't take that opportunity to walk up next to me and try to catch my attention. It feels like I have to talk to/meet 1000 girls just to find 1 that legit hooks and chases. Similar story on apps: I have to swipe a shitload to get a few matches, I get essentially zero 'likes' first, and my same friends get way more likes/matches than I do.

By "attraction," I want to stress that I don't mean looks. I've been told I'm good looking, I get compliments on my muscles all the time, and a couple times female friends have said 'you're really hot! the only issue is you're short.' I'm good looking but it certainly seems like I struggle to literally attract girls or draw them in, and it seems like many other guys do it more often. Yes, I know not to care what happens to other guys, but I do consider it useful information to assess what I may be doing wrong.

@topcat "Instead go hack the system to work in your favor. Get results. Fuck reactions"
No disagreements! But do you have any specific recommendations? What if the OP is someone who approaches as often as possible and has good fundamentals? Yet somehow has a difficult time drawing women in. What's the thing to work on? Is it a fundamental? Or something else? Are you suggesting that it's normal for the game to always feel like an uphill battle? Because based on everything I've studied about game, if a guy is struggling to hook/attract women, then he has something to correct. If he ignores this, then he's just going to continue spinning his wheels and get nowhere.

@SunKing "the ideal that girls have to show a certain threshold of interest overlooks about 40% of girls who are too shy to show interest outright"
What does this translate to in practice? To me this sounds like saying 'Never worry about if you're getting IOIs or not. Just approach every single-looking girl you find attractive and shoot your shot. Go spam approach because 40% of girls who are into you will actually give you indicators of disinterest.'

Perhaps the OP is just seeking clarification on hooking/attraction. I know I am.

I was under the impression that as one gets better at game, he will be able to identify IOIs from attractive women that have always been there. It seems like some of you are implying this isn't the case. The implication seems to be that some guys will NEVER get IOIs, so they just have to forget about sniper game, forget about the 'Fuck yes or no' mindset that I suspect the OP is referring to, and just approach basically every attractive girl you see.

Thoughts?

 

[moom]

Was thinking of posting a similar thread on the subject of attraction - literal attraction.

Like the OP, I too have struggled the entire time during my journey of literally drawing women to me, and often I see my friends draw women in even though they aren't models. They just stand there at a club and an attractive woman will find her way next to him and throw IOIs. I try as best as possible to replicate their behavior/body language and it doesn't happen to me. Only trait I notice that stands out to me is that I'm short and they're not.

Even regardless of my friends, I see this lack of attraction just in my day to day: For instance, if I sit down at a coffee shop, attractive girls won't sit near me. If I go to the bar to grab a drink, girls won't take that opportunity to walk up next to me and try to catch my attention. It feels like I have to talk to/meet 1000 girls just to find 1 that legit hooks and chases. Similar story on apps: I have to swipe a shitload to get a few matches, I get essentially zero 'likes' first, and my same friends get way more likes/matches than I do.

By "attraction," I want to stress that I don't mean looks. I've been told I'm good looking, I get compliments on my muscles all the time, and a couple times female friends have said 'you're really hot! the only issue is you're short.' I'm good looking but it certainly seems like I struggle to literally attract girls or draw them in, and it seems like many other guys do it more often. Yes, I know not to care what happens to other guys, but I do consider it useful information to assess what I may be doing wrong.

@topcat "Instead go hack the system to work in your favor. Get results. Fuck reactions"
No disagreements! But do you have any specific recommendations? What if the OP is someone who approaches as often as possible and has good fundamentals? Yet somehow has a difficult time drawing women in. What's the thing to work on? Is it a fundamental? Or something else? Are you suggesting that it's normal for the game to always feel like an uphill battle? Because based on everything I've studied about game, if a guy is struggling to hook/attract women, then he has something to correct. If he ignores this, then he's just going to continue spinning his wheels and get nowhere.

@SunKing "the ideal that girls have to show a certain threshold of interest overlooks about 40% of girls who are too shy to show interest outright"
What does this translate to in practice? To me this sounds like saying 'Never worry about if you're getting IOIs or not. Just approach every single-looking girl you find attractive and shoot your shot. Go spam approach because 40% of girls who are into you will actually give you indicators of disinterest.'

Perhaps the OP is just seeking clarification on hooking/attraction. I know I am.

I was under the impression that as one gets better at game, he will be able to identify IOIs from attractive women that have always been there. It seems like some of you are implying this isn't the case. The implication seems to be that some guys will NEVER get IOIs, so they just have to forget about sniper game, forget about the 'Fuck yes or no' mindset that I suspect the OP is referring to, and just approach basically every attractive girl you see.

Thoughts?

I second this actually, I’m curious.

I have trouble drawing women to me too. I’m a brown guy (middle eastern descent) I’m of average height, and I know I’m attractive looks wise because I get the occasional compliment saying I’m handsome or sexy.

Yes, hooking / attraction / “drawing women in” is really what I would like ya’lls perspectives on as I’m in a similar boat as this guy.

Some part of it has me thinking its me hyper-focusing on the wrong things such as outcompeting or comparing myself to others, being insecure, or something else.

I know for a fact I’ve got a dope ass personality- probably one of the coolest guys I know. I know for a fact that if you get me past the hook point; then it’s fairly easy for me to mid-game and close provided the mood is right and i like her.

But I also know there’s some truth to not drawing women in the way my friends do. I have the same experience as Elder Prince;
1) Have to swipe a TON on dating apps (my friends rate higher on photo feeler where we a/b test photos)
2) ATTRACTIVE Women gravitate towards my attractive friends, and just give many more signals and IOIs to them. If I’m minding my own business, I’ll get the occasional IOI from an UNattractive woman but nothing else.

Always feels like I’m fighting an uphill battle even though I’ve refined most of my fundementals, have a killer fashion sense, and a cool + seductive personality. Perhaps its time to hire a coach to really get a fresh perspective lol



—I would like to add that I’ve gotten an above average amount of sexual experience lol. Around 70ish girls between 18 and 28, 65ish being between 24 and 28. Only I would say 7-8 of those girls I would say were super attractive. The rest were just meh and 4 of those I actually feel disgusted by lol

 

[ElderPrice]

@momo93 By the way, all I got as a suggestion is that maybe it's your body language. This has been very hard for me to explore since, obviously, you can't watch yourself as you're socializing. But despite trying to appear as relaxed/chill as much as possible, I still got some comments recently that I look uncomfortable. This just flabbergasts me because I don't understand how to fix this. What do you physically have to do to your face or body to look more comfortable even when you feel 100% comfortable?

 

[moom]

@momo93 By the way, all I got as a suggestion is that maybe it's your body language. This has been very hard for me to explore since, obviously, you can't watch yourself as you're socializing. But despite trying to appear as relaxed/chill as much as possible, I still got some comments recently that I look uncomfortable. This just flabbergasts me because I don't understand how to fix this. What do you physically have to do to your face or body to look more comfortable even when you feel 100% comfortable?

Only solution I can currently think of is getting an in person coach whose already doing what you want to be doing. I think perhaps we both need a fresh perspective

 

[topcat]

@topcat "Instead go hack the system to work in your favor. Get results. Fuck reactions"
No disagreements! But do you have any specific recommendations? What if the OP is someone who approaches as often as possible and has good fundamentals? Yet somehow has a difficult time drawing women in. What's the thing to work on? Is it a fundamental? Or something else? Are you suggesting that it's normal for the game to always feel like an uphill battle? Because based on everything I've studied about game, if a guy is struggling to hook/attract women, then he has something to correct. If he ignores this, then he's just going to continue spinning his wheels and get nowhere

If he’s autistic, then yes I’d suggest he get a coach as he probably won’t figure it out himself.

For anybody else - break down what your doing, isolate your sticking point, hypothesize what you think is going wrong, read a few articles, come up with potential solutions, try them out, ask pointed questions on the forum after you’ve gone and experimented.

Also fuck low hanging fruit, once you get a few reference points gradually apply what you’ve learned to hotter and hotter girls until you arrive at your desired hotness level.

Also. what is your obsession with IOI’s and “hooking girls in?” you too @momo93 ?

Correct me if i’m wrong but it sounds like you want admiration.

You don’t need an IOI nor admiration to fuck a lot of girls. I’m of the mind you can simply get enough compliance and make sure to close at the right moment and you’ll fuck far more girls than any of these passive pretty boys you guys seem to envy so much…

If you don’t get another IOI in your life what will you do?

“boohoo no matches online” - do something else

“boohoo girls don’t hook me like my white friends” - o well. you can still fuck them

I’m minority ethnic and short as fuck. I also love pussy. I’ll be damned if any of that stops me..

Go figure it out or cry about it. It’s up to you.

 

[moom]

If he’s autistic, then yes I’d suggest he get a coach as he probably won’t figure it out himself.

For anybody else - break down what your doing, isolate your sticking point, hypothesize what you think is going wrong, read a few articles, come up with potential solutions, try them out, ask pointed questions on the forum after you’ve gone and experimented.

Also fuck low hanging fruit, once you get a few reference points gradually apply what you’ve learned to hotter and hotter girls until you arrive at your desired hotness level.

Also. what is your obsession with IOI’s and “hooking girls in?” you too @momo93 ?

Correct me if i’m wrong but it sounds like you want admiration.

You don’t need an IOI nor admiration to fuck a lot of girls. I’m of the mind you can simply get enough compliance and make sure to close at the right moment and you’ll fuck far more girls than any of these passive pretty boys you guys seem to envy so much…

If you don’t get another IOI in your life what will you do?

“boohoo no matches online” - do something else

“boohoo girls don’t hook me like my white friends” - o well. you can still fuck them

I’m minority ethnic and short as fuck. I also love pussy. I’ll be damned if any of that stops me..

Go figure it out or cry about it. It’s up to you.

Lol I like the direct no-bullshit attitude.

I think to some degree everyone goes out and fucks women partly for their validation. Whether its validating our sexual prowess, or ability to overcome a challenge, or ability to be desired, or something in the same vertical. I also believe any guy who says they’re above that yet still learns about seduction is lying to themselves.

Now I don’t want to go deep into this as not to detract from the main point.

In my case, I’m mostly asking this from a technical standpoint to shed some insight on what my sticking point is to skyrocket results. I’ve slept with 70ish girls and have a lay count higher than almost all of my “pretty-boy” friends that get many more IOIs.

I think I can speak for Elder here as well- I don’t think this is so much an emotional thing for us as much as it is a technical thing.

The question here boils down to (at-least from me)-
Can your natural god-given DNA & genetics handicap you severely enough to the point that, if every other attraction factor (walk, fashion, x-factor personality, facial expressions, muscular body, etc.) was maximised, you still wouldn’t get your DREAM results? Outside of physically or mentally severely handicapped people

If yes, what’s the line?
If no, great.

My dream results: chasing mastery, sleeping with 9s and 10s (think famous IG model looks) with fantastic personalities on a CONSISTENT basis. Going out and meeting 3 via cold approach in 1 weeks and sleeping with all 3 type shit

All I’m looking for is to know it’s possible.

 

[topcat]

The question here boils down to (at-least from me)-
Can your natural god-given DNA & genetics handicap you severely enough to the point that, if every other attraction factor (walk, fashion, x-factor personality, facial expressions, muscular body, etc.) was maximised, you still wouldn’t get your DREAM results? Outside of physically or mentally severely handicapped people

I don’t know. But I don’t see why it would. They’re only girls at the end of the day..

I do know if it’s your dream and it’s something you want badly enough then yes do whatever it takes to achieve that.

If i told you it was impossible would you believe me and give up? You shouldn’t.

The ig model thing, that’s never been my interest but perhaps find somebody who has them on lock and speak to them..

In my mind the only difference between them and a regular bitch is an account, good camera angles and an obsession with likes.

I think to some degree everyone goes out and fucks women partly for their validation. Whether its validating our sexual prowess, or ability to overcome a challenge, or ability to be desired, or something in the same vertical. I also believe any guy who says they’re above that yet still learns about seduction is lying to themselves.

I agree with this. I just find a reliance on social validation to be particularly insidious and detrimental to one’s self concept. But we want what we want…

 

[moom]

I agree with this. I just find a reliance on social validation to be particularly insidious and detrimental to one’s self concept. But we want what we want…

Everything you’ve said is true and I agree. I would definitely not quit no matter your answer lol.

Social validation is quite insidious, but also motivational to a degree. I see it as training weights. You keep them on while running to practice for a marathon and it certainly makes you stronger. But when it comes to run the actual thing, you don’t want training weights to hold you hack. I think there will come a point through experience when we’ll be ready to shed our need for validation from women and instead just focus on 100% on creating an experience for the woman herself.

In regards to my looks - cap question, I found this article by Chase. It really helped me get a renewed sense of hope while mostly answering my question!

"Girls Only Want Good-Looking Guys or Young Guys"

The most attractive thing to women is neither youth nor beauty. So why do so many guys think girls only want good-looking guys or young guys? Okay, I want to talk about the “girls only date good-looking guys” or “girls only date young guys” thing. I have more intellectual articles against these...

www.girlschase.com