@momo93 yes, technical. Hope that topcat answer helped you because I thought it was mostly bullshit. We're trying to figure it out. We're trying to ask a specific question, but he dodges most of my questions then replies with a hostile attitude. Not helpful.
@SunKing thank you for the reply. I don't think me or momo would disagree with any of your points! What we're saying isn't "help me no girls are interested in me," we're inquiring about a strange observation: We frequently see other guys that go out, just stand there, and girls blatantly come up to them, stare at them, play with their hair in front of them, or outright start talking to them. They're not freak of nature models. They're average guys. At the same time, it literally never happens to us.
So we're curious if this is normal, meaning some guys out there just can't draw girls in - literally attract - no matter how good their fundamentals are.... OR if we're doing something wrong that needs fixing. If so, we're curious how to specifically go about fixing it because it feels like we try our best to replicate what these other guys are doing, but it isn't working. In other words, it's very hard to self-identify what could be wrong with our vibe, body language, or resting facial expressions. We can't watch ourselves!
This isn't for any emotional reason. It's to simply make the game easier. It would be great to get laid from 20 approaches vs. 200 if there's a fixable error.
Take a picture or look at yourself in the mirror, look yourself in the eyes and ask yourself, if you saw that person standing in bar somewhere, and you didn't know them, what would be your reaction to them?
A lot of people, guys especially, are not only absolutely oblivious to virtually the entire world of subcommunication and body language, but especially incapable of seeing what is wrong with their own vibe, because they are so used to playing the game of judging themselves that they know all the ways to feel bad about themselves while protecting their own ego.
They think "I feel fine, I look perfectly acceptable, what could be wrong?" and yet, when they go and walk down a busy street, they are reacting positively or negatively (often in quite strong ways, and usually unconsciously) to all kinds of perfectly acceptable looking and behaving people. Why did you feel intimidated by that person? Why did you feel comfortable invading the personal space of that person or even go out of your way to dominate them a bit? Why did this person catch your eye and make you curious, but the other ten people you walked past didn't even enter your awareness? Why do you just feel good for no apparent reason around this person, but the other person makes you feel uncomfortable, even though they both look and behave in perfectly normal ways?
Because the truth is that everybody who is reasonably socialized knows how to
look fine, they know how to behave in 'perfectly normal' ways, ways that make it possible for them to operate in social environments at work or in social circles. But there is another reality going on underneath the exterior one. One where the truth of what is inside someone (or at least certain relevant aspects of it) are quite well perceived by the social instincts of those around them. And the effects of this follow them everywhere.
...
Here on the forums, there often pops up some debate about IOIs, how important they are etc. While I'm pretty sure everyone knows you don't need IOIs to go and talk to a girl, the truth is that IOIs are a powerful indicator of how you present yourself, your first impression. Personally, I am a bit obsessed with them, mainly because I used to have severe social anxiety and used to get a lot of (IODIs?), and invested a lot into reversing that. Even now that the anxiety is mostly gone, I am always surprised by the radical difference in reactions I get on different days (or even the same day) when I feel like I'm perfectly fine and behaving the same as I always do. If I investigate it, I can always see (because I am now good at looking at myself and my state objectively) that it comes down to my inner reality, how I
really feel about myself.
When someone is in the dumps mentally, when they have a constant barrage of negative thoughts (as in the case of social anxiety), every movement, every gesture, the tone of every syllable, every almost imperceptible eye movement up, down, left or right, the way they balance themselves, the fractions of milliseconds of hesitation before doing something, the arrangement of each of the many facial muscles that are not in conscious control, ALL reflect something about the negative reality inside them.
And when they have spent long enough in it, they get so used to it that it is imperceptible to them.
This is why victims are self-perpetuating failures. Because it is one thing to be a victim of something or other, but to perceive oneself as a victim rearranges every aspect of one's internal and external self to reflect that and communicate it to everyone around them.
The fact is that when someone is a winner, when someone is used to fighting hard and brutally against everything that tries to stand in their way, despite all the pain or defeat they might endure, then their face becomes set, their presence thrusts outward in front of them, they hold eye contact a little longer than normal, they appear still and ready when others are fidgeting, their chin is higher, their eyes shine brightly and don't move down, and every move of their body feels to those around them like the precipitation of a definitive and dominant action, making everyone both attentive and hesitant in their presence.
And when someone feels every day like a loser, holding themselves upright feels like shouldering a heavy burden, their eyes fall downward at every opportunity, they express nothing outward but take everything inside - the good, the bad and the ugly. They are frozen by a feeling of abject disconnect and hostility in their relationship with their surroundings, and hesitant to make any decisive movement or gesture, their body trained over years or decades to show submission rather than dominance.
And when someone is comfortable with themselves, when they are at ease and find pleasure in the world around them, their face has a charming softness, and reflects the dynamic activity of spontaneous positive thoughts and feelings that occur within them, their movements are spontaneous and tantalizing, full of expression, and because of emotional contagion, people flock to their presence like moths to a warm flame.
And when someone loathes the world, or fears it, their face is empty of this activity, it seems rigid and wooden even though it might have a pleasant expression, it appears like a mask over something unknown, every movement seems robotic, and people instinctively draw away.
These are all perceived, more or less, by people around them. And it causes one person to be magnetic, another person to be detoured around, one person to be liked, admired and allowed to do as he pleases, while another is despised, tooled, ignored, avoided or socially policed at every opportunity.
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I am very good at getting IOIs these days (probably far too good in comparison to my actual approach skills lol) because I have crafted myself physically and mentally, through lots of pain and hardship and all kinds of fears and anxieties, into the person I want to be, someone I am extremely proud of, someone I can use to reach my goals and ambitions rather than a burden whose presence I cannot escape, a tool of success I can wield toward every enterprise. Someone I parade in front of girls like a prize bull, with absolute confidence.
If someone looks at me, can they see any crazy outfit, radical body language or activity that could account for my effect? No. I seem to look and behave kind of like everyone else - yet I am not like everyone else at all, nor am I uncomfortable around them.
Because the difference is really what is inside me, how I experience each moment of my life, what I say to myself and feel within myself each time I win or lose, the fears I have confronted and am prepared to confront, my awareness and acceptance of all the different sides of my character and the character of the people around me, and above all, my unrelenting desire to find a way, any way, to win the game of life.
...
Maybe, as you say, there are people who are 'unexceptional' who are getting attention from women. But do you really know if they are not offering something valuable to those around them that makes up for this? There are people who arrive at a mindset and an attractive 'self' by accident, who are almost unaware of any of this stuff we talk about - I know at least one person who is the epitome of this, a quite extroverted, extremely amiable person who while being completely 'blue pilled' nevertheless has little trouble finding friends or girls who are quite drawn to him. But he does offer something valuable, something I myself even value, which is simply feeling good in his completely unjudgemental, uncontrived and comfortable presence.
I know why it is the case - and it goes back to the kind of upbringing he had and the development of his personality over time - but for me, this was not the case. What I naturally have is a powerful mind, a high pain threshold, and a fighter's mentality, and so that is what I use. And I do not resent anything about the different things that I have been given compared to everyone else - already I have succeeded in ways that other people who have a 'headstart' have not, and I am building my success in ways they don't even understand. I have felt things they may never feel, experienced the positive and negative aspects of things they would not be able to face, and expanded my horizons by sheer will while they remain in the same loop. Who is better off? No one can say, and in any case, what does it matter?
The question is, what are your resources, and how can you use them toward a clear objective? Rather than worrying about a question which, even if you could answer it, you would not know what to do with the answer.
