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Stop getting called "good guy" and "nice"

Sub-Zero

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Sep 6, 2014
Messages
836
I don't understand this nice guy shit. I treat people normal and get called a nice guy and good guy. Don't fuckin call me that. I take offensive because it is demeaning to me. Why can't it be cool guy or cool dude? Why nice? Nice is weak! I don't go out my way for anyone, but i treat people who treat me with respect and i get called nice and good guy?

That makes no sense, am i supposed to just walk around and disrespect people who don't deserve it? i treat people how they treat me and i get called nice guy because of that?

I've been called nice so many times in my fucking life. Im literally about to throw my fucking phone and punch a hole in the wall.

This chick just called me a fucking nice guy and it blew my lid. To me that means you're weak and soft. Im ask why did she say that and she said because i respect her.

I don't take her on dates, i don't kiss her ass, i talk to the damn girl and she calls me this shit. Am i supposed to say let's fuck? I just met the girl and i don't even know if i want to fuck her. So im just being cool and i get called nice.

It just pisses me off to get called nice and good guy. I feel like it is causing me to lose girls. Those words to me equal weak. I read all of the articles on being an asshole and all. I try to not even smile. If i go any harder people will think im just a quiet anti social person. What can i do to stop this guys?
 

Smith

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Sep 14, 2013
Messages
1,016
Hey Money,

I don't know how you interact with girls, but a good seducer is willing to push the interaction forward by touching her and escalating on her while at the same time respect her boundary when she clearly doesn't like it.

I don't take her on dates, i don't kiss her ass, i talk to the damn girl and she calls me this shit. Am i supposed to say let's fuck? I just met the girl and i don't even know if i want to fuck her. So im just being cool and i get called nice.

I'm guessing you're not aggressive enough when you're interacting with them, and she doesn't know exactly what you want, so she has to put you into the nice guy zone.
Always make your intent clear using your subcommunication, which could be verbal and non-verbal. Touch her more and make the conversation sexual.
 

Mr.Rob

Modern Human
Modern Human
Joined
Jun 16, 2013
Messages
1,897
Money said:
Im literally about to throw my fucking phone and punch a hole in the wall.
That's not a very nice thing for a nice guy to say!

Lol.

Social feedback is an interesting thing usually because of the honesty behind it. If you're getting the same comments time and time again about yourself it's probably a pretty accurate portrayal of how you're coming across to them.

So if you're getting called a nice guy all the time it's probably means you're coming off as a nice guy.

Social feedback is awesome just for that reason it shows you where you need to focus on your improvements (assuming you don't like the social feedback).
So be grateful for it. It's better than being perceived as a nice guy by everyone and they don't say anything and you think your some icey pimp when your actually just a chode.

Don't get butt hurt by the comments just think "what can I do to get different feedback".

Now for some practical pointers:

-Becoming an asshole takes time to weed out all the weak social conditioning most "nice guys" have

-Don't surround yourself with people that know you as the "nice guy". Even if you do become an "ass hole" their going to want to keep you in the identity of "nice guy". I noticed this and it took me almost 2 years until I was so far away from my previous self my old friends had no choice but to identify me as my new assholish self.
Interact with new people (cold approach) and keep making changes until you get social feedback your looking for.

-Nice guy is heavily a vibe that guys put off. Even if you say stuff like an asshole but you have a nice guy vibe you'll be in-congruent (probably shamed as a result) yet still labeled a nice guy. If you came across James Bond/Indiana Jones/Han Solo you would know from the first minute of conversation with them that they're not nice guys even if they only said basic conversation exchanges.
Fundamentals...

-Read books on the subject. "No More Mr. Nice Guy" by Robert Glover was a good read for me to understand why I was a nice guy in the first place along with the psychology behind it. "I hope they serve beer in hell" by Tucker Max was good to understand the psychology behind a natural asshole and how an asshole thinks (very self-amused).
I'm sure there are plenty more resources out there.

So yeah dude don't take it personally just keep making changes until you start hearing things like "you're such a jerk!" (girl playfully hits you), "AHH! I can't believe you'd say that!" (smiles big and warmly).

Also since I've become more of an asshole I still get told I'm a nice guy sometimes but I know I'm not so I don't get butt hurt about it.
Whereas when I was a nice guy and in denial about it I'd get butt hurt when I was told I was a nice guy.
Maybe that's not you but something to think about.
 

slinky71

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Sep 6, 2014
Messages
21
Mate, just that they throw a bone at you doesn't mean you should jump on and gnaw it furiously, to say. It's just women's screening mechanism. Just take it and reframe it if you can. If you can't, just blow it off playfully. One time, there was a girl who helped me on something and i was like 'oh thank you X, you're so nice!'. And she said 'not likely' and winked at me. After this i thought, 'wow, that's a cool chick'. See? Simple as this. If you get upset you'll fail the shittest.
 

Sub-Zero

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Sep 6, 2014
Messages
836
Smith said:
Hey Money,

I don't know how you interact with girls, but a good seducer is willing to push the interaction forward by touching her and escalating on her while at the same time respect her boundary when she clearly doesn't like it.

I don't take her on dates, i don't kiss her ass, i talk to the damn girl and she calls me this shit. Am i supposed to say let's fuck? I just met the girl and i don't even know if i want to fuck her. So im just being cool and i get called nice.

I'm guessing you're not aggressive enough when you're interacting with them, and she doesn't know exactly what you want, so she has to put you into the nice guy zone.
Always make your intent clear using your subcommunication, which could be verbal and non-verbal. Touch her more and make the conversation sexual.

Yeah, i agree with you, but i honestly want to be cool with this girl and maybe fuck here and there. I didn't express my interest since we work together and she seems someone i can be more fwb than anything else. I tried to keep it professional and she's talking about im a nice guy. Im not trying to be nice.
 

Sub-Zero

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Sep 6, 2014
Messages
836
Mr.Rob said:
Money said:
Im literally about to throw my fucking phone and punch a hole in the wall.
That's not a very nice thing for a nice guy to say!

Lol.

Social feedback is an interesting thing usually because of the honesty behind it. If you're getting the same comments time and time again about yourself it's probably a pretty accurate portrayal of how you're coming across to them.

So if you're getting called a nice guy all the time it's probably means you're coming off as a nice guy.

Social feedback is awesome just for that reason it shows you where you need to focus on your improvements (assuming you don't like the social feedback).
So be grateful for it. It's better than being perceived as a nice guy by everyone and they don't say anything and you think your some icey pimp when your actually just a chode.

Don't get butt hurt by the comments just think "what can I do to get different feedback".

Now for some practical pointers:

-Becoming an asshole takes time to weed out all the weak social conditioning most "nice guys" have

-Don't surround yourself with people that know you as the "nice guy". Even if you do become an "ass hole" their going to want to keep you in the identity of "nice guy". I noticed this and it took me almost 2 years until I was so far away from my previous self my old friends had no choice but to identify me as my new assholish self.
Interact with new people (cold approach) and keep making changes until you get social feedback your looking for.

-Nice guy is heavily a vibe that guys put off. Even if you say stuff like an asshole but you have a nice guy vibe you'll be in-congruent (probably shamed as a result) yet still labeled a nice guy. If you came across James Bond/Indiana Jones/Han Solo you would know from the first minute of conversation with them that they're not nice guys even if they only said basic conversation exchanges.
Fundamentals...

-Read books on the subject. "No More Mr. Nice Guy" by Robert Glover was a good read for me to understand why I was a nice guy in the first place along with the psychology behind it. "I hope they serve beer in hell" by Tucker Max was good to understand the psychology behind a natural asshole and how an asshole thinks (very self-amused).
I'm sure there are plenty more resources out there.

So yeah dude don't take it personally just keep making changes until you start hearing things like "you're such a jerk!" (girl playfully hits you), "AHH! I can't believe you'd say that!" (smiles big and warmly).

Also since I've become more of an asshole I still get told I'm a nice guy sometimes but I know I'm not so I don't get butt hurt about it.
Whereas when I was a nice guy and in denial about it I'd get butt hurt when I was told I was a nice guy.
Maybe that's not you but something to think about.

Lol yeah, i can have my moments of rage. I am happy to hear what they think, but hearing from all people in my life makes me angry and they say it in a weak way. When i get called nice it isn't a compliment. I really don't know what im doing. I feel like im just acting normal, im not a pushover, i don't pay for dates, i dont go out my way for anyone who doesn't go out there way for me.

With this girl, she is more of a friend to me and we work together, so i try to keep it a little professional. No need of putting my cards on the table and possibly getting rejected and have my job know.
i would make her a fwb, but i can't go around making it blatantly obvious. With her she is a maybe i will fuck her but idk.

Thanks for the advice and the good reads. I'd appreciate it if you can tell me more about the nice guy vibe and how to get rid of it. Because maybe i act bad, but i give off nice guy vibes.
 

Sub-Zero

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
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Messages
836
slinky71 said:
Mate, just that they throw a bone at you doesn't mean you should jump on and gnaw it furiously, to say. It's just women's screening mechanism. Just take it and reframe it if you can. If you can't, just blow it off playfully. One time, there was a girl who helped me on something and i was like 'oh thank you X, you're so nice!'. And she said 'not likely' and winked at me. After this i thought, 'wow, that's a cool chick'. See? Simple as this. If you get upset you'll fail the shittest.

Lol i kept my cool, it was over text, so i put my phone down and got angry, then went on my rant. I asked why was she saying that and she said because im a gentleman and respect her. Wtf am i supposed to not respect her? This girl and i are cool and im not trying to wife it up, maybe fuck, but that's about it. When she said that, i reframed it by saying im bad and that i will show you when we are together one on one, not work, or over phone.

Hm... i never thought of it as a test, why would a girl test somebody by saying they're a nice guy?
 

slinky71

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Sep 6, 2014
Messages
21
Money said:
slinky71 said:
Mate, just that they throw a bone at you doesn't mean you should jump on and gnaw it furiously, to say. It's just women's screening mechanism. Just take it and reframe it if you can. If you can't, just blow it off playfully. One time, there was a girl who helped me on something and i was like 'oh thank you X, you're so nice!'. And she said 'not likely' and winked at me. After this i thought, 'wow, that's a cool chick'. See? Simple as this. If you get upset you'll fail the shittest.

Lol i kept my cool, it was over text, so i put my phone down and got angry, then went on my rant. I asked why was she saying that and she said because im a gentleman and respect her. Wtf am i supposed to not respect her? This girl and i are cool and im not trying to wife it up, maybe fuck, but that's about it. When she said that, i reframed it by saying im bad and that i will show you when we are together one on one, not work, or over phone.

Hm... i never thought of it as a test, why would a girl test somebody by saying they're a nice guy?

Well, i don't know! Since the purpose of shittests is screen out weaker man, shittests can come in very different shapes. They're -subconsciously- very creative about that. She might say you're 'nice' to see if you're going to accept the role of the sexless 'beta male'. If she feeds a guy with her reality and he just buys it, or he gets mad about it, she'll think like 'this is a weak man', subconsciously or not. She might have a boyfriend and she might occasionally bring him into the conversation like 'so we were like this, we were like thaaat' and such. If you start to behave different, bye bye attraction. If you keep it cool and if you actually KNOW that the fact she has a bf isn't a big deal, you'll pass. I met with this girl, opened the set when she was with her bf and had a cool conversation with both of them. Then we ran into each other again, just with the girl, 1-on-1. And she threw those tests at me, i knew it wasn't a big fucking deal, she's just a girl being a girl, i'd even bring up the topic of her boyfriend like 'hey, how's Josh by the way?' and she ended up having a big chunk of attraction for me. She might say that she's not the kind of girl who'd sleep around, JUST A KNOWING SMILE can get it done and make her open more sexually, after she's seen that you're not the inexperienced guy who'd slutshame her or anyone.

And realising what's a shittest and what's not, can be tricky of course. But it comes with experience. There was a time in my life i nearly thought that all those PUA stuff is semi-bullshit, so i didn't EXPECT to be tested thus i failed. But if you actually open yourself up to the idea, then you can see. It's like having a spider-sense, when women throw shit at me i just know, mostly of course :)

And my advice, i've seen that saying 'i'm baaadd gurlll' doesn't work usually. It sounds forced -no offense bruh-. What i suggest you to do, and not on this topic only but in life, be the man who DOES it. Not the man who TALKS ABOUT IT. Not the man who says who'd do it. Just be the bad boy. This advice also eliminates her reaction when you said 'im bad and that i will show you when we are together one on one, not work, or over phone' -assuming you didn't say it jokingly, in a playful way-. Since you said that, she'd be more careful around you. That's what i think but i don't really know, so proceed as nothing happened. Bottomline, shittests are very real, she might say anything to test you, you just need to get to vibe to see if it's a test or not. How to defuse it, just don't care. Just say 'yeah i'm too nice i'll probably be the guy who'd end up old and alone with 28 kittens in his apartment' in a funny way. Exaggerate what she tells you, make it funny. Or just do what i do, when they throw you this crap like 'ooooh you're one of the nice guuuuyyss!!' and something, just wink and say 'not likely' in a sexy voice. Its effect is huge :)
 
you miss 100% of the shots you don't take

Estate

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
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Messages
798
Hi Money,
Some good advice already but I'll just throw in my take on it.

Before any of this GirlsChase stuff, I was your typical generic nice guy. I just kept my head down so I'd never draw any negative attention and was always just polite and tried to be nice to people so they'd like me... you know what I mean.

Anyway, nowadays I don't buy into guys having to be in 2 categories, nice guy or asshole. I fall into a grey area. I'm a "good" guy I guess, but I'm not overly nice and I'm not a dick to anyone.
Here's how it clicked for me. Basically, nobody likes an asshole, they really don't, not even girls. But these guys have some edge, they get noticed, thus girls meet them, attract to the edginess but ultimately any relationships end with bad feeling. Nice guys just plain don't get attention because they are so non-descript.

So take the best of both worlds. Be nice, and pay compliments to people if it feels good, pay attention to people. But never go out of your way to please people, if you do or say something nice then it's just part of your day, it's how you are, but you're not going out of your way to do so.
You're also not going to be an asshole, but you're going to have more edge. When you pay a compliment, you don't say it meekly and seeking approval. You say it in such a way that you the other person knows you are saying it in approval of THEM, which makes them feel better, this actually seems more genuine to me. You say it with a little glint in your eye or a little cock to your smile, so if it's a women, she knows to read between the lines that you're a confident guy and you are interested in her.

I'll give some examples, last weekend I already wrote in another post how I had a disastrous weekend, I was getting along famously with a hot girl and my friends seemed determined to cock-block. But there's a few things to this story:

- One of the friends already knew her before I met her that night. Same guy whines often how he's a "nice guy" and nobody appreciates him. The problem is he goes out of his way to do and say nice things to women. While he never does the same for his male friends. This is a big one to me. Would you drive 20 miles out of your way to offer a girl a ride home at 2am, while leaving your friends standing in the cold trying to flag taxi's? Well... that's something this guy does. Basically, he's soooo "nice" to girls he thinks are hot, but he shows himself up to only be nice with an agenda, towards his friends... and girls just use him. They see he's not genuine.
He recently sent flowers to one of his direct reports in work because she was having a rough day. In professional terms, this could be deemed inappropriate, he was hoping to get with her, she obviously backed waaay off.
He pays heavy but unnecessary compliments to women then waits for them to fall at his feet, but gets angry when they don't.
While he compliments women, he's often throw digs at other guys in a group, thinly veiled as jokes, to lower the others value in the eyes of the girls in the group.

- On the other hand here's how I handled meeting this girl and had her attracted to me and making out within an hour.
When we were introduced we hugged. If you hug or shake hands, if has to be manly and firm. Do not do a weak, ass out hug or a limp fish handshake. It's weak.
Hug then look into her eyes while saying "Hi!! Nice to meet you...." while you hold strong eye contact for a split second longer than is normal. She'll get it... believe me, weak guys look away.
If you hug, stop using the hover hand... put your arm around her like a friend would, if you're bold, don't be afraid to wrap your arm around her lower back or waist. Don't be creepy about it and touch inappropriately or for too long, but it's all about the sub-communication. I'm being a "nice" guy by greeting her, hugging her and making strong eye contact, but I'm doing it with a little more edge by holding that eye contact, or hugging firmly and not being afraid to put my arm a little lower than a "shy guy" would be comfortable with... it shows I'm not fazed by it.

- Next comes the conversation. Again be edgy without being overly direct. Weak guys are afraid to say anything beyond pleasantries and "nice topics". Guy above tries to connect with girls at bars by bringing up how he's an English major and tries to impress them with his knowledge of literature and such topics. I've seen even the most avid readers and intellectual women totally turned off by this, it doesn't build sexual tension. On the contrary, assholes will tell her " U r hot!", directly reference sex and just be direct. It's a turnoff but they just throw it at the wall enough times that it will stick somewhere.
The "cool" guy will simply be the conversationalist, this is what it took me ages to realize from Chase's article. Being to direct about sex is a turnoff, avoiding it totally is a turnoff. You need to make conversation where it's easy for someone to "read between the lines" of what you're saying. It may be subtle double entendres, it may just be how you say something "innocent" with a little twinkle in your eye or slight smirk to your smile... basically conveying. "I'm smart enough to know I just met you and asking for sex will not work... but I know we're both thinking the same thing".

Ok, next... when it comes to kissing. If you even get HALF an opportunity, go for it. I would say 99% of the time, a girl will kiss you back if you make the move. And also... don't "wait" for the opportunities... create them. And it changes the tone of your entire interaction from there out. You create it by setting the tone. If your talking to her, you're not doing so from a distance, you two are close, you are in your own world. If it's a bar setting, it's easy to use the noise as an excuse to speak closer to each others ears but this can be a good measuring stick too, it grows tension and if you lean in a little, a lot of women will just begin to brush their cheek against you, turn into you, lock eye contact... this tells you they are ready to be kissed.
As you talk this close, it's natural to lightly have your hand on her arm or her waist, if you've done everything right up to now she'll not react to it... this is good... only a negative reaction or pulling away is bad, and this rarely happens... but it WILL happen to the nice guy... because the nice guy doesn't set the tone right up to this point... but I'll do all this without being an "asshole", my conversation will be totally pleasant, even borderline "nice" and I won't skip steps or move any of this too fast. I will be respectful, but I also know, if I do it right, she will be open to it.

Assholes also have a way of making it feel like she and him are in some bubble, where only they exist. Now I don't like this bubble being so negative, but nice guys don't do this. They don't have this "us against the world" mentality and build that bubble with her. I like to do this in a positive way. Never do it by literally trying to put you two "against" anyone, but build that bubble of shared ideas or experiences and she'll gravitate towards you.

Going back to this girl last week. Every guy in the group basically made it known they were into this girl. She was extremely attractive. But I never felt in any doubt that if someone were to get her, it would be me. As I said, I made pleasant conversation with her, I was just nice and flirty and fun... and she gravitated towards me. The other guys were being overly "nice" and people can just smell it and it's not genuine at all. Everything I did and said was done out of being genuine, if she was receptive to me, great... If she's not, I will not get angry or jealous, I'll just meet another girl, but most of the time, they ARE receptive if this is your attitude.

Most of this is so subtle, it takes a lot of time to really nail it. But the overall concept is you have to realize what most guys don't. There are NOT only 2 "types" of guys... you need to be in that gray area between nice and asshole and this will get you the results you desire without every feeling bad.
I do understand how the words "nice" are sometimes a bad thing to guys, but when someone says these things like you are a good guy, or caring guy, or genuine guy or anything like that... you want to be getting these compliments and wearing them with pride.
 

Black

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
May 15, 2014
Messages
102
Awesome advice. There should be a "like" button somewhere.
 

Troy

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Messages
729
Black,

I like your idea. Truly it would make the forum a lot more interesting. And Money, I get called nice from time to time. There is a learning curve to this. Just continue the conversation as if nothing happened. If you bring attention to it in conversation then it means you care about being called nice which tells the girl that you really are nice.

I have adopted a technique where I reframe everything bad a girl says into my own interpretation. Let me give you an example of a text conversation I had with a black girl:

Troy: I really enjoyed visiting xyz beach last year. I would go back again

Shanoya: You just broke my vibes. I hate that place

Troy: My exgirlfriend always said to me " You broke my vibes Troy ". When you said that it reminded me of her. It's cute but if you keep telling me that then I won't be thinking about you during our conversation. I'll be thinking about my ex. Do you want that to happen?

Shanoya: Sounds like you really like her

Troy: The more you tell me " You broke my vibes " is the more I stop liking you and liking her.
...................................................................................
...................................................................................
( and we talk some more until the conversation looks like this )

Shanoya: XYZ party downtown was the best. Too bad you weren't there, I wish you came

Troy: You just broke my vibes

Shanoya: I thought you said that reminded you of your girlfriend

Troy: I was just using your own line back on you. LOL.

Shanoya: LOL you got me there.


The point I'm making is try reframing whatever bad a girl says about you into something good. Make it witty and attach a chase frame. So if a girl said:

Shanice: Fuck you Troy I hate you
Troy: You fucked me and still hating on me? ( with a smile )
Shanice: LOL what ?( playful arm hit)


An example on turning the " You are Nice " into something good might look like this:

Renae: Money, you are such a nice guy. Hold my bag of french fries for a second

Money: I'm so nice that I'll let you hold on to my french fries tonight! LOL

Renae: Only if it's big enough LOL

The point is to just reframe it. It is something that I have added to my game that has helped improve my humor a lot. Take the bad and laugh at it sometimes.

Troy
 

PinotNoir

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Jan 4, 2013
Messages
747
Estate has dropped the nail in the coffin here haha. Nice guy w/ an edge is what it's all about. Even the guy from that Notebook movie has edge. No one wants to date Duckie from Pretty in Pink, but everyone wants Ryan Gosling's character from Notebook (and yet he's nice to people).

I'll use myself as a small example. I dress pretty nice, like a nice guy I guess. I'm generally nice to people and open doors, etc. But, then I have a bit of stubble, ride a motorcycle, and don't follow the vast majority of society's views (non-Christian and vegan). Then of course, I worked on voice and eye contact -- things that Estate already addressed -- and that just added cherries on top.

Add some edge to yourself, something that makes you a bit of a rebel or just makes you stand out as not average.

As a side note, I had a girl once tell me, "You are such a nice guy." I replied back, "Thanks. The world needs nice guys... you know why?" -- "Why?" -- "To spank the bad girls and keep them in line." ;)
 

Dern

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Apr 11, 2013
Messages
278
Solid advice here. I hate being called "nice." It happens to me once in a while, but I now know how to respond ;)

What I've also been working on lately is turning the conversation sexual, especially since I've been doing more night game. What are your guy's advice on that? Estate, I like how you mention the need for a balance between not addressing sex, and being too direct about it. I just googled the meaning of entendre, and it means something that can be interpreted in two different ways. So using Chase's example in one of his articles: "I'm a janitor, I make things wet and I sweep people off their feet". Lol.
 
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