Straight from extreme interest to ghosting. What happened?

[HereNthere]

So, have this case where a girl went from showing extreme interest to ghosting with no warning signs or stages inbetween. I've written her off but wanted to solve the mystery just for a better future understanding. She was a real catch too so I want to nip any mistakes in the bud so I don't repeat them with future dream girls.

I met her at this weekly get together group for playing board games that takes place at a local brewery. Not stuff like Monopoly, but fairly complex strategy games. Pretty dorky stuff you'd see guys in comic book stores playing. You would rarely see any remotely attractive girls at these things.

So I'm surprised when I see this stunner walk in. She would make me do a double take if I saw her on the street, let alone standing out in this dorky setting.

"She's probably here to play one of those casual games." Most girls that show up to the get together want to play Uno or some lame family game. She sits down and joins our game and we get to chatting.

Her: "I've always loved board games. I just moved into town and but it seems like most of the games here are just casual stuff. Does anyone here ever play (name of a super complicated game that happens to be one of my favorites but I can never find anyone else to play)?"

Me: "Uh...yeah! I love that game but no one here every wants to play!"

Her: "Oh my god we should totally play that! I can never find anyone good to play against because I know all the strategies like (names high level strategy for the game)."

At this point I'm wondering if this is some hidden camera gag. A gorgeous girl walks in, says she's new to town and that her biggest problem is that she's dying to find someone to play my favorite dorky strategy game with AND she actually knows high level stuff about it? This is like the start of some cheesy nerd porn movie plot.

Some more chatting that went well. I mention this bar in the area I frequent and she says she always wanted to go there. She says it sounds good but she has to meet someone in half an hour. Score!...but then some dorky dude walks by. "Mike?" she asks. They shake hands and exchange names before standing up to go off to their own table. Oooooh, she's meeting an internet date here. But before she goes she asks when we can play. I (stupidly) felt like I had to be classy and not ask for her number right in front of her date, so I just left it at contacting me through the group's internet site. As soon as she left I realized how dumb of me that was.

Good news! Her date was bombing. The girls at our table were watching the whole thing and commenting on how bad it was going. At one point both he and she were staring down at their phones. She leaves. He sits alone for 10 minutes, then leaves.

The next day, I'm still kicking myself for not getting her number. Then all of a sudden I see a friend request on Facebook and it's her. "How did she find me?" I vaguely recall giving my last name early in the night. She remembered that and actively tracked me down to reach out? Holy shit!

I add and message her. She says she's going out of town for the week but let's do something when she gets back. Sweet! I agree and wish her a good time out of town. 8 days later I message to set something up...no reply. Another week passes and no reply. Fuck...oh well. I write it off.

Then the night of one of those board game meetups, she messages through Facebook.

Her: "Hi! I'm heading over to the meetup around an hour and a half! You there?"
Me: "I am!"
Her: "Okay. Gym first then head over there. See you soon!"

Okay, she finally responded. No acknowledgement of disappearing for over 2 weeks or my invitation. And her seeing me is just another of the same group activity rather than 1on1 time that would be considered a date. Not good. I predict it's a 50/50 she even shows up at all tonight, and just over 90 minutes later...

Her: "Won't make it. Reschedule this week? You free? Got out of work late."

Figured. At least there's a counter offer though?

Me: "This week? Are we talking (board game group)?"

I normally wouldn't go with something like this, but I was cautious from the flaking and wanted to absolutely clarify if this was going to be a date or just another platonic group activity before I bothered with any more effort.

Her: "Wherever. I go climbing often. I'll send you my free days. You in the middle of a game?"

Huh. So she's suggesting we meet up outside of this group setting. Except...climbing is usually done in groups. She's literally offering up her schedule though to make sure it works out though. Promising?

Me: "We just finished (game name)."
Her: "Dammit! I am so good at that game! Let's meet up with this week/weekend. Sorry for spacing!!! Today has been crazy"

Damn. She's frantic to get something set this week outside of the group, and apologized for the cancellation. "Today" doesn't cover the past 2 weeks she never replied, but I guess it's fine?

I try a joking tease

Me: "That's okay. We'll just say I won (strategy game name)."
Her: "NOOOOO! I really love games. Please (strategy game name). I will bring store bought cookies! Name your price. You drive a hard bargain."

She played along with the joke, and now she's begging and making offers? Damn!
Okay, enough playing. Let's set a day and wrap this up.

Me: "But yeah let's meet up. Saturday afternoon looks like my free day."

I would have dropped EVERYTHING to meet up with this girl, but let's not tell her that!

(At this point, I accidentally sent her a Blue Apron recipe to her that I meant to send my parents)

Me: "Beef medallions and mushroom sauce with mashed potatoes, and bucatini alfredo with broccoli"
Me: "Ha ha, shit sorry. That was a Blue Apron deal I meant to send to my folks."
Her: "I thought that was the demand you were making. I thought, smart man. Alas"

She jokes through my fuckup and admires a guy who'd make demands!

Me: "Smart enough to be 1-0 in our game so far! So does Saturday afternoon work?"

2 days and no response. Maybe she doesn't check Facebook that often?

Me: "Here this would be easier with texting. *my phone number*"
Me: "Just promise not to stalk me. (too much) "

9 more days pass and no reply. I try to leave a "ball is in your court" message while still sounding positive and not bitter.

Me: "I guess the store bought cookies was too high a price! You seem like a fun, cool person. Offer is open if you ever want to game or sight see. Either way, welcome to (city name) and I hope you have a great time!"

That was 4 days ago and still no response.

I wasn't under any illusions from the start considering that a good looking girl like that wasn't going to stay single for long. Granted this wasn't the BEST game and texts I've done, but usually there's at least one stage of indifferent or non-committal before a girl goes full ghost on you. I don't think I've ever seen it go straight from THAT high apparent interest to completely disappearing. I wanted to get a grasp of it for research sake.

So, any thoughts on what happened? My best theory is that she met someone else, but didn't want to reply with a flat out cancellation/rejection in order to keep the door open on the board game group if she wanted to go again and ran into me there (she could just play it off as "I've been so busy!" rather than an awkward confirmed rejection). That doesn't explain though her eagerly wanting to send her schedule and lock down a date quickly, and then never answering my reply less than 2 hours later. I dunno. That was the only explanation I could think of.

 

[Fuck This]

There is probably someone else or something else. I'll admit I pulled some of that stuff on girls when I had a few different prospects. One rose above the rest and I just quit responding to the others.

Can't take it personally. Just leave the door open but don't sit around waiting.

 

[mindful]

It does sound like someone else.

These types of situations are really frustrating, especially when you are more a beginner. I think you have it figured out though.

Sometimes it's best to trust your gut in these situations. If you start trying to come up with reasons for why she isn't responding in a timely manner, if at all, you are not a priority for a girl. Just laugh it off and move on.

It's good to think about this in a contrasting situation too. How does a girl respond when she actually digs you and wants to see you? Yeah it's effortless and you probably aren't questioning what you are doing wrong.

 

[HereNthere]

It's good to think about this in a contrasting situation too. How does a girl respond when she actually digs you and wants to see you? Yeah it's effortless and you probably aren't questioning what you are doing wrong.

Oh, I've had plenty of situations where it was obvious I wasn't a priority. They're clear as day as soon as you reverse the roles and ask yourself how YOU would respond if you were actually interested in someone vs not a priority.

That's what had me puzzled about this situation because it didn't fit the usual MO of that. I was extremely interested in her so the day after I was going through the group's online member list trying to track her down, didn't find her, only the realize that she had done the same for me and found me on Facebook. That seemed like a huge interest indicator. It's exactly what I would have done if I had gotten her last name and no other contact info.

What puzzles me is still the the whole part about her begging to do stuff, specific activity offers, and sending me her free days. That's exactly what it looks like when a girl does have genuine interest. She met some other guy that swept her off her feet to the point of ghosting everyone else in the one hour between that and my reply?

Another possibility I thought of was her seeing something on my Facebook profile that turned her off (why I never Facebook a girl until she's a regular thing). I try to make it a point to never put anything questionable on there (always assume an employer will see it) or post political opinions, but who knows. But she had access to my profile for weeks before the offer where she went straight from high (apparent) interest to ghosting within the space of one hour. It all goes back to "what the hell happened in that one hour?"

This feels like a coroner's most puzzling postmortem mystery. Unless she really has a grudge against Blue Apron and that instantly destroyed all interest.

 

[HereNthere]

Looking over what I could have done different (besides getting her number right away, that is obvious) and came across this post which spells out what I probably should have done over texting at signs of first flake.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16305#p81374

 

[Michal]

Hello,

Just a speculation now because I have not noticed you would mention this but sometimes these abrupt "change of heart" situations have relatively simple explanation. Now to my speculation - if you were mesaging with her in the evening, she might have something planned next day, goes to bed early regularly, you go 2 hours after her usually, because that is the regime you two have. So you send the last text and she does not reply because it is late, she knows you are asking her out, and she thinks "you know, its late, I am tired, I will let him know tomorrow". She goes out of town or somewhere, she meets a guy, he takes and sleeps with her. Or maybe she was already seeing someone, the guy only kissed her so she felt good about him but not too sold but now, she met him the day after you asked her out and they slept together. Something similar happened to me, only once though and after about a month I hot her to respond to me, so I asked her out again at which point she told me she was seeing someone

 

[HereNthere]

Yeah. It was just weird how it jumped from begging to do something together (with bribes!) straight to ghosting. There's usually some lukewarm or indifferent stage inbetween.

BUT, an update! She just now messaged me back. This is 19 days after I the last exchange where I asked her out, and 8 days after the final "offer's open" text.

"Hi!"
"I'm sorry for spacing on you. That was rude of me."
"And I apologize."
"Just have a lot going on atm"

That was half an hour ago and nothing else. I haven't responded with anything. Was contemplating the right mix of not sounding bitter but also not sounding like a lapdog jumping up after this long disappearing act. Or to respond at all. I'm probably going to run into her again at the social meetup group at some point so I don't want to go with anything that would make that too awkward.

I'll probably go with Seppuku's advice in that other thread. Some low effort "hi how are you" small talk then quickly end the conversation without asking her out again. Wait a few days in silence, then ask again a final time.

 

[HereNthere]

Went with the neutral "Hi how are you?" response suggested in Seppuku's thread. Over 24 hours and no answer, so fuck -> that.

I think I've figured out the mystery though. I just realized that there's a rock wall climbing gym right next store to the group we met up at. That's probably what she meant by "going" climbing, i.e. yet another platonic public group activity. That also explains why both times the conversation went cold was right after suggesting moving it off Facebook messenger and on to exchanging phone numbers. Keep it away from anything remotely intimate and keep it as a strict arms length social circle thing. My term for these women is "collectors", spending above and beyond the usual amount of effort to collect orbitors who can be plucked from the back pocket as needed.

So that's that. Beware super hot women coming up to you and saying how much they're DYING to nerd out with you with video games, Magic the Gathering, or D&D because that shit is too good to be true

This reminded me of another thing I just talked about with a friend recently: the evolution of excuses. It used to be:

"I didn't get your message": Hasn't been possible since the days of answering machines, or very rarely the earliest days of voice mail. But this excuse was still used up until the late 00s.

"I've been so busy" or "I just haven't had time for anything": The tried and true classic to fall back on once "I didn't get your message" was no longer believable. But it amazes me that women still use this on guys they're Facebook friends with, especially guys they're talking to via Facebook messenger! Like, do you not realize I can see the half dozen pictures you posted hanging out with your friends right above your message telling me you're too busy with work/school?

I was curious what the next evolution of excuse would look like. "I didn't get your message" stayed around over 5 years after it lost credibility. Since you can see on social media now that people aren't as busy as they say, what are excuses going to look like in 5 more years? I know it's ultimately pointless since the excuse is just a symptom, not the problem, but we were wondering on a purely philosophical speculation level.

 

[mindful]

lol. girls man.

I probably would have given her a little bit more to acknowledge her situation but that's about it.

me: hey xxx, yeah i know how that can go

I would of said something like that... and then just leave it. Relate to her but don't cave and be like "oh that's ok". She might respond after this or she might not. Either way, I wouldn't invest too much energy in it. However, if you want, wait 3-5 days and then try and get her out to meet up with you.

 

[HereNthere]

That does sound better!

Always finding out something I could have done better, after the fact. Story of my life

 

[Michal]

I usually acknowledge their ghosting or flaking. To me, it seems like this is one of multiple ways that girls test nowadays. You might think this is an evolution of excuses but it might as well simply be evolution of modern day girl's way of life. So much to do, so many options, so much pressure from society. And lots of guys go "you think you are some princess right... cancelling on me, what a bitch". This is a way she can weed out some egocentric idiots. But yea, also she might be toying with you, we can never know. But I can tell you that lots of times I come home, there is a text from a girl and I just dont reply even though I have like 10 minutes to come up with something, simply because it requires mental energy and I still fuck up sometimes over text. So I postpone it but because I have things to do, I easily forget and reply 5 days later which sometimes is too late

Anyways, in situations like this I go by the advice Chase wrote in one of his articles which was "if you are in doubt, ask her out". Which was about not being sure whether the girl likes you that way. So I would reply like a day later or maybe two with something like "No biggie, only losers have nothing to do all week But you will have to make it up to me, so let's grab a coffee later this week." And depending on how she responds to that, you will most likely know where you stand.

 

[HereNthere]

These are both better than what I went with

 

[Michal]

Is there any chance to run into her? I would speculate that being in her presence and briefly flirt with her and show her you are a cool dude could repair some damage.
And if you play it right, you might spike her interest and create a groundbase for asking her out again. You flirt, make her enjoy your company but then you say you need to get going you have something to take care of. And if you do a good job, she will desire desire more of your attention, she might crave more and it would be a good excuse to propose that you go meet up or grab a drink later the week (because you enjoy her company as well and want to see her again). There was a girl who did this all the time to me and kept me on the hook and I am confident it works both ways.

 

[HereNthere]

The meetup group is weekly so I could run into her there at some point. Haven't seen her there since the first time in last December though.

Mini-epilogue:

So last meetup I got to talking up ANOTHER very cute chick who just happened to be into my very favorite game of all time. For a mental image, imagine a suicide girls version of Liv Tyler. Now imagine a girl who looks like that enthusiastically talking to you about your dorky hobby that you usually hide from girls. Anyway, we were so engaged that she brushed off two approaches of people coming up and inviting her to do something with them.

No way was I going to repeat the mistake I made last time. So I was all set to ask for her number when...

"...and that was so much fun that my boyfriend bought all the others for us to play."

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck

Those moments when you're struggling to keep the unfazed smile up when she reveals the b-word.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I66aySW4le8

 

[HereNthere]

Oh for fuck's sake. Just got another message from the original chick. It's like that line In Swingers where "They just know" when you're meeting another girl and are ready to move on.

"I think I saw your (board game) on the table at meetup night. i was going to leave a sorry note in there, but i think that would have been creepy."
"ive had 40+ interviews in three months, just to give you a sliver of my excuse. how have you been?"

I almost got a written break up note before there was even a first date! This is like what I just wrote about excuses. You use "I've been too busy with interviews the last 3 months" as an excuse to someone who was literally right in front of you when you had the time to meet an internet blind date one month ago? It wouldn't even enter my mind to use an excuse that baseless.

That's a wrap!


(bonus cringe: I saw the message at 11pm and I was tired. I skimmed it and just thought, "Oh she responded," so I went with the above advice of replying that we can do something later but she better make it up. Only rereading it after sleeping did I catch the "sorry note" part and realize it was the lamest rejection ever. So now I come off as rejected AND completely clueless!)

 

[Michal]

Ok, sounds like a little roller coaster. Anyways, regarding the original chick, whatever you wrote, if you suggested to meet up, leave it at that for now. You made the move, made your intentions clear, wait for her to respond. It might take time, she might suggest "something else" - like another group activities but just be patient with this or better yet, move your mind off of her and go dig some other girl. And do not burn bridges with girls unless they stepped way over line and did something really horrible.

 

[HereNthere]

Indeed! As well as playing up the 2nd chick whenever I run into her there. Both as a "just in case" and to boost social proof there.

Side topic: the 1st chick has a big red flag in that she's what I call "a jetsetter". A girl bitten by the travel bug and is constantly traveling. Wanting to do some travel is healthy, but you know the ones on Okcupid whose profiles state "Always looking to fill out the next stamp on my passport!" and 90% of their pictures are in front of foreign landmarks (is there any more generic girl's dating profile pic than Machu Picchu?). I'm not sure about other guys, but when I read that I see a woman who has at least one dick in every area, and someone who's expecting a well off guy to allow her to continue that kind of lifestyle.

Am I crazy there? I mean it's not a deal breaker, but definitely a red flag that makes me cautious.

 

[mindful]

Her message seems sincere, and I don't know why you think she rejected you with the sorry note... I didn't get that impression.

Either way, this is a roller coaster like the above poster mentioned (and she plays the game quite well). Your text left it with a proposal for a meetup, so see what happens. If she disregards it or deflects in some way I wouldn't even respond back to her. No girl is too busy for a cool sexy guy.

 

[HereNthere]

So I'm considering this dead, but I also generally believe in not burning bridges so I wanted an opinion on what's the least amount of effort you can put in to keep that bridge unburned by auto rejection?

Last week she sent a message that "I'm circling back Friday". The fuck does that mean? I just answer "circling back?"

No response until 2 days ago "Maybe back the 19th. Out of town".

At this point I'm just exhausted with the thing. All I reply with is

"word"

This is in the context of after 3 of my specific date offers or prompts to take this off Facebook messenger and onto the phone went unacknowledged. If she had made an offer to do something then that would be one thing, but with vague crap, me making the offer again just feels like Lucy with the football.

I might run into her at the meetup in the future, and maybe "word" was a tad too brusk, so what's advice on the minimum effort for keeping a bridge open?