Stream of (Dating) Consciousness

[TheEcho]

Starting this as a place to put all the thoughts I end up putting into chat that end up getting washed away. Currently dealing with a heavy case of fucking up EVERY interaction somehow and need to get to the bottom of it. I believe I have many very good aspects, but something(or things) is crashing it all to the ground during approaches.

• TheEcho:
  Think I nailed one of my bigger issues, especially on approach. Justifying things. Need to kill that shit
• TheEcho:
  It doesn't always come up, so it's not what's killing every interaction, but it does occasionally pop up to ruin things
• TheEcho:
  Also, return compliments, feel like they don't always fit when a girl is complimenting you with interest involved
• TheEcho:
  Other than the Muslim girl, feels like my seductive side pretty much never comes out ever since I was in a relationship. There'd be a girl that would spark it sometimes during the relationship, but it feels like it receded from my day-to-day self and put into the bedroom
• TheEcho:
  It's way too easy for me to be generally energetic and curious, and the slower, sultry aspects of being a seducer are being paved over by "friendly dude"
• TheEcho:
  Probably why the Muslim girl comes up so much is she's the only "available" girl I get into full teasing and chill mode with. The only others are taken ladies that I have no intention of going after. But these are all cases where I have ongoing contact, so the bigger thing seems to be bringing it out sooner (like immediately...)
  
  
• Train:
  @TheEcho, What point in the interaction do you feel you mess up? Like 5 minutes in, the opener, etc?
• TheEcho:
  I'm starting to feel like the tone of the conversation is off. It's too general, not that seductive and pointed. There's specific things like the justifying that definitely don't help, but the lack of me actually trying to seduce her may be the biggest thing
• TheEcho:
  Like I've checked out from my approaches due to exposure and just talk to them as if they're any random person
• TheEcho:
  I'd think the lack of caring too much would help, but again, seems like my general energy and curiosity take the reigns and make it too friendly. So they are almost always very engaged until I ask for more and then the record needle scratches
• Train:
  @TheEcho, Ah, do you feel you're suppressing your sexuality, hence the platonic vibes of your convos
• @ Train:
  How are you asking for more
• @ orkie123:
  I know what you mean about being energetic and curious but a lot of girls like that. If that's your natural state, just add some innuendos and flirting to all interactions. even guy friends lol. Become the guy who is flirty with everyone and keeps them on their toes, then girls get the feeling you are the mysterious guy - "Does he like me or is he just being his flirty self" then when you isolate you can go a little slower and give them a reason why you like them.
• TheEcho:
  I think so. It comes out very strongly when I have extended contact, but it's just absent at the start. Think it relates to purposefully hiding it away as a previously committed boyfriend (oops...)
• @ Train:
  Yeah I feel you, happens to me, just a bad habit of repressing for whatever reason, my case was shame
• TheEcho:
  Well Dark Knight corrected me on the ask yesterday. I'd usually ask if they're single, then give a compliment, then "what do you think about hanging out sometime/grabbing coffee?", but I just switched that part to "We should hang out sometime/grab coffee" and used it a couple times today.

• TheEcho:
  Lately my opening is what ethnicity are you/where is your family from, maybe I should be chasing that with my compliment so it's out early
• TheEcho:
  Then end with a time constraint "I need to get going... we should hang out sometime"
• TheEcho:
  I feel like my slow burn game is very strong, but my current world doesn't present much for that

• orkie123:
  Imagine a girl comes up to you and says "Are you mixed ethnicity?" or if she comes up with and says to you "I bet you are mixed ethnicity, you have this cool trait from X but you also got the confidence vibes of Y"
• TheEcho:
  But the second part of that is I think the biggest takeaway for my current situation. Need to make it fun and sexy. They laugh plenty but I don't have too many teases on approach and thinking about it, the stories I bring out are too general, not crafted to create interest [added] I am way too deep in get-to-know-you mode and tend to give her too much attention

Additional Notes:
Think nonverbals to occupy my energy

• TheEcho:
  Sexualization! That is majorly missing from my approaches. Like Train mentioned it going away due to shame, I think it went away because of being in a relationship and getting used to informational and fun conversations with girls but not adding a charge to them. Longer contact relationships would get more flirty, but intros were and seem to still be too platonic.
  
• TheEcho:
  It kicked me in the face because I opened a girl with "Your figure looks amazing!" and I instantly found ways to take it out of being sexual and about lifting

 

[TheEcho]

• TheEcho:
  Maybe I'm doing the phases of pickup wrong. I get into meaty topics right away, because that's how i am with everyone. It seems like this is turning off girls from even wanting to go on a date. Maybe I need to chop my approach way down to just a flourish of fundamentals and sexiness with just a pinch of getting-to-know-each-other
• @ orkie123:
  Ive done the same before @TheEcho, part of it is calibration but also starting slow at first and noticing their reaction. Sometimes strong eye contact is all you need to build up sexual tension. If vibe is there, there is no need to jump to meaty topics
  
  TheEcho:
  Yeah, think I need to keep things brief and strong, jumping straight into charismatic me is batting 0/100

• DarkKnight:
  @TheEcho, you can pretend to pass next to them and theb talk over shoulder
  Today at 1:35 PM
• @ DarkKnight:
  Basically what Teevster uses in clubs I use in gym or otherwise cafes street

• TheEcho:
  Starting to get deep into meditation for the first time in years. It’s interesting how long it takes to “break through” the surface before you start sinking deep into it. There’s almost no benefit for a week or two and then wooosh, it clicks and you are really meditating
  
• TheEcho:
  Completely deleted my ex’s contact info and am giving up the desire to get revenge through making her regret the decision to leave
• TheEcho:
  My mind feels so much more steady now. Walking around the mall with my brother with him getting all the looks and me not, I finally reached the point of letting go. He’s happily taken, which is the usual way men let go of seeking women’s attention, but I wonder how much of the increased attention you get has to do with actually being with a girl and how much is the state of letting go

 

[TheEcho]

• Wick:
  It’s all about expressing them in skillful ways
• @ Wick:
  Feminine intuition and communication are useful in dealing with women. And then having masculine aspects developed well, being able to lead and exude a strong presence.
• @ Wick:
  Russel Brand is a good example. Actually a lot of actors and musicians
• @ PaulieFlyn10:
  Russell brand is a perfect example of feminine energy that pulls
• @ Wick:
  he's got a heavy dose of masculine as well. Decisive, direct, leads, strong jaw and stubble, hairy, tall.
• @ Wick:
  And he's charismatic as fuck.
• @ orkie123:
  I like the idea that polar opposites attract (really masculine men are attracted to really feminine women) and that most men's core is masculine dominated.
• @ orkie123:
  And most females core is feminine dominated
• @ orkie123:
  So most females are initially attracted by masculine traits (a must) but would prefer a masculine guy who has good ability to switch on feminine traits (nice to have)
• @ orkie123:
  Thats why very masculine guys with very little feminine skills tend to get girls even if they cant keep them but very feminine guys tend to struggle and get friendzoned even if he seems to have all the qualities that girls say they want

• TheEcho:
  I know bedding them asap is the best defense, but as I fix up my approaches and longer term exposure, any good way to let her know you won't be there if things don't progress? Basically that you as a friend is a nonexistant option
• @ orkie123:
  Its mostly not doing stuff that friends do (especially until you are regularly sleeping with her) e.g. dont text her too much. Dont give her life advice. Dont be her therapist. Steer conversations towards topics good for seduction. Keep escalating and if she isnt complying, then you reduce attention and effort until she does or you fade away from her life

TheEcho:
I need to stand on my masculine much more at first. Hold my authority as an actually impressive person (fitness, intellect, experiences, etc.) and guide things to the bedroom rather than jumping straight to their level and following the conversation wherever it goes. I also love being coach/trainer/therapist, and I can see how if it is unasked for, it falls flat and doesn't turn them on, seeming tryhard/useful buddy




Refine my expressions using my masculinity as the anchor. Don't remove the energy, but it needs to be guided and used, not blowing it out in whatever direction the wind blows. Find ways to be more of rebel to go along with the energy in a more congruent way. Focus more on statements and not questions on approach, and keep it brief.

Layout what each step of the process should look like, especially the balance of bright energy and steadiness. Be on it more, windows are much less forgiving now. Cut the excess that has been accumulating through various experiences.

GET BACK TO THE BASICS!

 

[TheEcho]

TheEcho:
I think I'm figuring out the source of my texting woes, when I talk, I am very "jumpy" about subjects being discussed, and it works great with a ton of loops opening and closing all the time, but that jumpiness doesn't translate well without all the other context that comes with being in person. So when I "jump" in text, it just seems random and uncalibrated, even if in person it would've been cool and came back around anyways

 

[TheEcho]

TheEcho:
Need to relearn proper framing for compliance asks. My usual conscientious self doesn't want to trouble others, but I need to remember and solidfy in my mind that I am helping them feel attracted to someone that'll treat them well, especially by fucking the shit out of them, which is a rare thing for most girls

TheEcho:
And the bigger the ask (assuming I think it'll be accepted), the more attracted

• TheEcho:
  At this point I think cutting down/out direct shows is what i need to do, as cutting out the passive show of interest is much more fundamental
  
• TheEcho:
  That or I just come in like a tactical nuke, blow them up and gtfo

TheEcho:
Maybe I have some subconscious crap questioning the value I offer to girls, due to breakups being all painful. Should nuke that idea until I'm sure it's straightened out

 

[TheEcho]

• Comfortability. That’s the biggest difference I have between ON and not interactions. Notably my own level of comfortability and familiarity towards them.
• TheEcho:
  I've seen this mentioned, but treating her like an old friend is so major, at least for me. I am COMPLETELY different and it's why 4/6 of my female interactions today fell flat and 2 felt steamy
• TheEcho:
  Sounds wild, but that means I'm spending a lot of time not in a comfortable state. Which given my insecurities since childhood, makes sense
• TheEcho:
  Wonder if my texting issues are related to this... If I'm usually not in a comfortable state, then I'll be texting in poorer states that themselves are terrible for talking to girls, let alone texting. Also why texting longer term girls is totally fine since the comfortability is already there with them

TheEcho:
So now begins the crusade to be comfortable in my own skin

 

[TheEcho]

• TheEcho:
  Self worth. That got majorly corrupted in my relationship. It used to be basically unattached to my financial situation, but 5 years of pressure from my ex seems to have turned my entire concept of self worth into my financial state. I bet that is one of the most damaging things for me overall currently
• TheEcho:
  Not really sure how to fix this one, other than long term "cleansing"
  
  
  TheEcho:
  Building on the self worth thing, it could be seen as ironic that my biggest focus is getting my finances together, and that's the frame I've been living in "get the money, be worthy". The reality though is it's the TRAITS that contribute to this effort and the real demonstration of these valuable traits that should be the source of my pride and self worth. I've been afraid of measuring success by results, but the great irony is my self worth has been demolished by being attached to results, and that damage is making it way harder to get new results
  
  TheEcho:
  The lack I've been living in (mentioned last week), is probably largely a result of my self esteem being in the drain for the past few years

 

[Rakehell]

Self worth. That got majorly corrupted in my relationship. It used to be basically unattached to my financial situation, but 5 years of pressure from my ex seems to have turned my entire concept of self worth into my financial state. I bet that is one of the most damaging things for me overall currently

Hey man, not sure of your whole situation but I’m assuming your relationship hit the fan due to finances? Your girl left or caused excess drama because you weren’t making enough, or she couldn’t see how what you were doing would lead to money and felt like she needed to jump ship?

If this is true it probably changed your whole perspective and really hurt your feelings, and now you feel like you need to be financially stable before you make an actual herculian effort into dating, without self sabotaging?

If any of this is true i’m sure you already know that dating and financial success isn’t necessarily entirely correlated. Yet at some level you still feel like it is emotionally.

In that regard you probably won’t feel any different until you work through the grief that you experienced and internalize new perspectives. I.e by meeting new women and realizing it’s not the case, or by some other means. Or by sorting out your finances in general so you don’t have to worry about that aspect.

It’s pretty hard to will yourself into changing dispositions, and how you feel about certain things. You have to go at it in a way where you’re challenging the belief directly. At least that’s what i’ve found to be the case.

Unless how you feel is far removed from reality and you’re constantly confronted by things that go against what you believe. Eroding away at it over time.

Which in a way is how finances got tied to your objective value in your mind. Being in a bubble with a girl who made you feel like that was the value that you brought. She was constantly clashing against your pre conceived beliefs until you internalized what she thought at some level.

Or she may have abruptly made it seem like that was all the relationship had been about, which had to be a shitty feeling.

5 years is a long time so it probably wont happen over night.

Again i’m just assuming but could be something to consider.

 

[TheEcho]

Hey man, got into it way more in chat, but you figured out the gist of it. Finances were the single reigning issue the entire relationship and the main thing that caused the breakup. I wanted to support her and have a family with her, so my resistance to that frame fell and I got totally sucked in.

Yeah, I agree with your thoughts on digging myself out of it. It'll be a process of living the opposite experience, and reaffirming how I was before, when finances weren't tied to my self esteem pretty much at all.



Stream of (Dating) Consciousness) contd.:

I think it's time for me to ACTUALLY stop scanning for interest and hot bodies. When I "pause dating", I usually just am not asking girls out, but my radar is still scouring. I need to chill and learn to just use peripherals and not worry about it. That'll go a long way to getting better performance in my next phase, once my business is running smoothly. My full attention is really needed to get things there, though