Taking girls home - leading strongly

[Tkr]

Hey everyone,
Had a great encounter yesterday that ended with nothing. Everything was flowing smoothly until we decided to leave, then it fell to pieces.

I went to a friends apartment for an after-party and met some cute Peruvians dancing salsa. Yesterday's article on hit-run strategy worked to great effect, and after some good dancing (as in touching, idk how to salsa lol) we went outside to hang by the balcony. Talked a bit, about life, apartments, and beds. Girl was clearly dtf, she even yelled at her "idiot" friends to go back inside when they opened the sliding door to join us. I knew I had to invite her home, and I did, yet somehow I dropped the ball on the way through the apartment and lost her. More specifically, she sat down at the table with her friends/my friends and got chair-locked. It was the only chair so I got left standing on the opposite end.

Some things I wanted to discuss to clarify:

When inviting a girl home, I'm identifying the windows and hitting them without anxiety, but I don't think I'm very clear about it.
We were talking about her showing me her place, going to mine for a drink, or even being adventurous and checking out this dark alleyway we spotted. All were great functional options so at the time I didn't catch the issue.
It was tricky because I'm speaking in my second language, but I think my mistake was not picking one thing and getting her confirmation.

When physically leaving, do you generally grab her by the hand/waist and lead her directly out?
Maybe you ask her if she has a jacket/phone/crap and then wait for her to go get it and say bye to her friends? Or not remind her and lead to the door.
Do we follow her around as she does what she has to do or wait in a visible situation watching her?

How would you handle oddball ADD situations like this if they happened to you? Hang out for as long as she's rooted, find a new prospect, or just leave? It was too late in the night to find new prospects but I just got fed up and left.

I believe that if I was physically leading her we would have been out of here, but I was the new person and she was hanging with her friends so I let her go say bye and ended up getting fucked (or not...) I also think that if I picked one thing to go do she wouldn't have dilly-dallied and we'd be out of there.

In most of my past experiences girls just follow me by my side, no contact necessary. Though here in the South America I see most men holding their girls, though it's definitely a cultural thing and these couples are usually (imo) already in relationships. They go out late but most the pairing off happens between 12 and 1 and they all seem to already know each other.


How do you guys run your end game?
- TR

 

[Mr.Rob]

Whats up TKR, I've actually been thinking a lot about end game too recently (mostly physical escalation, beating LMR, once in a secluded spot) so I'll see if I can't help shed a bit of light from my perspective.

I knew I had to invite her home, and I did, yet somehow I dropped the ball on the way through the apartment and lost her. More specifically, she sat down at the table with her friends/my friends and got chair-locked. It was the only chair so I got left standing on the opposite end.

First off that sucks ass and I think it happened because you were at the effect rather than the "cause" of things. Basically she got sidetracked and you just said "well I guess that just happened. Oh well." instead of "fuck this I'm going to make this happen or die trying" and then make some bullshit excuse to move her or just pick her up and drag her away.

However it would've been better to avoid having to go by her friends in the first place and definitely don't let her sit down when you're en route to go fuck, you basically just let her go even though she wanted to go with you... think about that.

Your going to experience a lot of bullshit in pulling girls regularly and you have to find ways to persist and figure it out when most guys would throw in the towel.

I've had it explained to me like this before: The girl is thinking "Figure out a way to fuck me despite what i'm/friends are saying, bad logistics, other crazy shit going on. And if you can't figure out a way to fuck me then FUCK OFF I'll find a man with bigger balls and more decisiveness that will find a way despite all the bullshit going on"
Obviously thats a pretty hardcore way of looking at it but it's a good mindset to assume and will better aid you in finding a way to cut through the bullshit.

I look at it like James Bond or some shit and all the bad guys are surrounding him and he finds a way to blast them all to pieces, steal the car, pick the girl up and then peace out when most guys would've shat their pants and surrendered when everyone surrounded him at first.

As far as this interaction goes you shouldn't have let her sit down with her friends. If you had to walk past their table to leave the venue then I'd whisper in her ear right before you rock up on the table "tell them your going down the street to the xyz restaurant for 2 minutes and be right back, tell them now" (or makeup whatever excuse makes sense/is feasible). If she's already following your lead and likes you she'll follow your command and then you get out as soon as possible and get back to business.

Your thoughts TKR?

-Rob

 

[Tkr]

Hey Rob,
Thanks for the reply, I love your take-no-prisoners attitude on this.
Honestly, I never imagined in a million years that she would just go sit down with her friends.
I think alcohol-induced ADD had a lot to do with this, I just thought she had to go get her phone/jacket so I let her go over.

I mean, we were talking about who's bed was bigger and where we were gonna sneak off to so everything in my past experience was telling me this would be another straight-shooter. Like, when a girl decides she wants to be with you she's not gonna waste time talking to her friends or whatever crap. She's gonna stick by your side and walk out with you.

I think the best thing to do when about to encounter risky transitions is tell her in advance what you're going to do. Like, I should have told her as we were stepping inside to get her things and we'd leave right now. Then she would have done that and said bye to everyone, not sit down. I really couldn't have done anything but stood by her shoulder or asked for a chair and waited it out, something I simply don't have the patience to do.

Maybe in light of the mistake, like you said, the best thing to do was walk to her chair and whisper something in her ear, then if I got shut down I'd grab a chair and hang out.

I just have bad experience with pulling girls when their friends are around. I remember one time at a social event this girl was staring me down every 5 minutes so after some casual conversations I called her over as we were all leaving and got her on a yes-ladder to go home with me and she shot me down cold. I thought she was gonna jump at the opportunity and come home with me, but with her friends a few steps behind us she wouldn't even give her #, just gave me the facebook run-around.

Do you find yourself physically leading her out when you're trying to leave the venue in order to avoid bullshit like this or do you just trust that she likes you and will follow?

 

[Tkr]

UPDATE: I'm a fucking moron.

In this country you need a key to LEAVE your building. I didn't remember that because I have door security. No wonder we couldn't just walk out. I feel like an idiot now.

 

[Drck]

Many younger girls are inexperienced, they are hesitant to go with a guy even though they desire the experience and like the guy. So they take it step by step, maybe with different guys, meaning that they just don't jump in the bed with first guy who tries to lead them to the bed.

They also know that the guy doesn't have much experience, they can feel it based on the guy's behavior, and no matter what the guy does he just can't get her to the bed.

You don't "grab" the girl per se, unless you know her. You are touching, e.g. put your hand gently at her lower back, as if nothing happened, perhaps just smile, and see how she reacts. If she is 'open' to touching it is good, she will touch back or get closer to you. You can add more, you can be more leading and dominant physically. If she is 'not open' she pulls away. If she pulls away, act as if nothing happened, give her some space, and then try again. If she doesn't like the touching, she is most likely not interested and she will eventually move away from you anyway.

I wouldn't ask if she has jacket/phone/crap, and I wouldn't follow her around. If she is ready to leave or she is decided to leave with you, she will simply tell you to wait for her - while she grabs her crap quickly to make sure that you don't disappear.

When she sat down she was already decided she's not going anywhere. She knew that there is only one chair and she sat in it, knowing that you can't sit next to her. She let you stand, hinting you to leave. If she wanted you to be around she would make sure that there are two empty chairs, next to each other. She was gone at that time, if you pulled chair next to her and whispered in her ear, you would be chasing.

When you say "Yes-ladder", what exactly do you mean? Most guys want affirmations that she is compliant, so they are making her say "yes" or do stuff for them. The problem is that they do it excessively, e.g. 2-3 "yes" are not good enough they need 10 or more "yes". Once you are requesting this "Yes" repeatedly, she knows what is going on and she puts her brakes on because she know where you are headed. She will give you more "yes" but she has already decided "no". She is just leading you on, waiting how far you are going to take it. You may even bring her and have her sitting on your bed, kissing and touching, but she is decided that she just won't sleep with you.

When you are requesting too much compliance and too many "yes", she knows right away you are not confident; She knows you are asking her for permission and assurance. The guy that she is looking for is not asking her any permissions. He takes her without asking, he doesn't need any affirmation that she agrees with him. That guy doesn't ask her for permission, instead he tells her what to do. He doesn't ask her for any "yes", he just leads her to bed, and if she is not interested he simply walks away.

Hope it helps

--------------

Mr. Rob: "Figure out a way to fuck me despite what i'm/friends are saying, bad logistics, other crazy shit going on. And if you can't figure out a way to fuck me then FUCK OFF I'll find a man with bigger balls and more decisiveness that will find a way despite all the bullshit going on"

Good job, lol! Once I was so desperate because nothing was working out, so I just asked her directly to help me, help me to get her to the bed. And she did, lol

 

[Tkr]

When she sat down she was already decided she's not going anywhere. She knew that there is only one chair and she sat in it, knowing that you can't sit next to her. She let you stand, hinting you to leave. If she wanted you to be around she would make sure that there are two empty chairs, next to each other. She was gone at that time, if you pulled chair next to her and whispered in her ear, you would be chasing.

Yeah, that's the logical way to look at it. At the time I couldn't believe it because things were so certain. I mean, the touching, the foreshadowing, she literally told her friend to fuck off when she tried to join us. I knew not to chase because it felt wrong, but at the same time I had to do something to salvage the otherwise golden situation - and I didn't know what to do.

I'm more concerned about the implications of having to have the host walk you out of the apartment. You literally can not leave the building unless a resident unlocks the door for you. She definitely understood that and waited around for me to do something, but I wasn't even aware that I had to ask someone to open the door for us so I was just standing around like "wtf let's go" oblivious of the fact that I had to get the host/my friend to open the door for us.

Even now that I know this it's a bit tricky to flesh out in my mind how to proceed - like, should I care that her friends are there? One girl told me that she goes out for smokes with the men she meets by strategically spacing out their exits 2 minutes apart. Then, when he comes outside, they leave.

On Yes-Ladders, I came across that on my own and found the article here useful to just clarify why it works. It would be really funny to imagine someone seeking out 10 yes'es before they make a move, sometimes you don't even need one haha