Taking stock after 450 approaches

[Winston]

Hello guys,

I want to talk about my current situation. And get, if possible, some feedback on what I am doing, and some guidance on what I could focus on/doing differently.
I am [REDACTED], live in [REDACTED] and before starting daygame I had slept with [REDACTED] girls in my life, including [REDACTED] LTR.

I have started cold approaches at the beginning of July 2020, I have done it until October 2020, then I had to stop because of lockdowns/curfews and also because I had a lot of work. I got lucky because around my 10th approach (!!!) I got laid with a really pretty 32-year-old girl. Then I got laid with a really pretty 22-year-old girls on something like my 200th approach. Both of these girls were solid 7 I would say.

Then came the break due to covid restrictions, and I am back at it since June 2021.
Since June 2021 I have done 250 approaches, with no lay. I am trying to "trust the process" but this is sometimes difficult to not doubt myself and this whole project of mine of learning game.

So here the breakdown of my results over 450 approaches (I am not keeping track of my number closes):
- 17 first dates (which led to 4 second date)
- 3 instant dates (never saw them again)
- 2 lays (1 on the first date, 1 on the second date)

Well, I guess I suck at dating.
I understood recently that I tried to pull way too fast. I pulled the girl after less than one hour, with no escalatation at all. That was very lucky and this fuck up my subsequent dates because I tried to reproduce this with other girls, which failed every fucking time, and that probably made me lose points with many girls.

Besides pulling too soon, I was not escalating at all, many of my dates stayed on social conversations and the girls didn't agree for a second date because there were no seduction going on during the 1st dates. In my recent dates I am making the conversation more man to woman, I try to physically escalate and go for the kiss when I think it's a good idea. But with one recent girl I kissed, I was too needy (she litteraly told me exaclty this word over texts after the date), so now I focus on escalating properly without being needy. So I think I am slowly getting better at dating, but I still need a lot of work.

Along with cold approaches, I am also working on my fundamentals:
- Voice : currently following a voice coaching course whith a professionnal coach, which is spread over 6 courses. I am currently done with 2 of those 6 courses (because of holidays the course start again in September) and I am doing a daily exercise.
- Posture : My back is fuck up. I am doing a daily exercise to improve my posture and I plan to start the Alexander method from September
- Clothes : I think my clothes were okish but it made me lazy with it, I have stayed at the same level of "ok but not great" since the beginning. So recently I have started to buy new clothes to model the style of guys better dressed than me
- Hairstyle : I have recently done a new hairstyle which seems cool

Tonight I am feeling depressed because this afternoon I went for a solo session and due to few targets, and also approach anxiety, I have done only 1 set. And I did not manage it properly by making 2 mistakes :
- asking a close question before the hook point
- ejecting while the girl probably didn't mind talking to me (she was sitting and I did an indirect opener)

All of this take a lot of work, a lot of time and a lot of energy, and I am not sure where I am going.
Sometimes I think I am a slow learner and that it may not worth it to stay on this path because I may be not the kind of guy that can become good with women.
I find it incredibly difficult to fix mistakes such as "don't ask question before the hook point", sometimes I think I may never be able to fix that mistake.
Same things with my dating skills, it looks like that my dating skills will be sharp after maybe 100 dates, which seems like a fucking long period that will be peppered with frustation. Sometimes I am not even sure I have learned something since the beginning (objectively my results were better in the summer 2020 than in the summer 2021), and I am telling myself this might be just be a number games.

 

[Fuck This]

I think you need to focus on reading body language of women and determining higher percentage approaches.

I think you care too much

I think you are being overly analytical. Might come off as uncalibrated.

Try some more indirect approaches and quit counting them.

 

[Xandin]

I would concur a bit with what Fuck This said. If a girl is saying you come off as needy in any way before sex with her then that is definitely not ideal. That can be tricky because without a lay it can be a bit of a cycle, where you become needier due to putting so much effort in but minimal results. I would also be curious how your text/phone conversations go between approach and subsequent dates. Do you find yourself reaching out to them often?

 

[Lobo]

I've noticed you have no field reports written out of your 450 approaches. Not to flame you, but writing these interactions down will help you see where your sets are falling apart, which is important if you want to up your odds, which you do.

You also open up the opportunity to get real targeted feedback instead of what's been given on this thread which is general(and from people I have no idea are actually approaching mind you).

Along with cold approaches, I am also working on my fundamentals:
- Voice : currently following a voice coaching course whith a professionnal coach, which is spread over 6 courses. I am currently done with 2 of those 6 courses (because of holidays the course start again in September) and I am doing a daily exercise.
- Posture : My back is fuck up. I am doing a daily exercise to improve my posture and I plan to start the Alexander method from September
- Clothes : I think my clothes were okish but it made me lazy with it, I have stayed at the same level of "ok but not great" since the beginning. So recently I have started to buy new clothes to model the style of guys better dressed than me
- Hairstyle : I have recently done a new hairstyle which seems cool

It's always great to work on the fundies... but where is the fitness? Your physique(and your posture which you said you are working on)has a strong role in your overall image and the first impression you give girls in the open. Working out also has a plethora of other health benefits.

As for clothing, something I've been recommended, and agree with, is dressing just a bit better than the average. Enough to stand out, not too much and you are tryhard.

But it seems you've put a lot of effort into seduction which is really great to see, but this is no time to doubt your ability to learn this skillset.
Consider listening to this podcast if you want to up your percentages. It talks about how to more consistently pull from your interactions with women, as well as the mindset and other strategies useful to improvement.

 

[Toby2030]

As Lobo said, start writing FRs in the FR section. You'll get a lot of feedback from guys with more experience that can spot what you are doing wrong. It's very hard to give you real feedback from what you have said above. We need FRs.

 

[Shake&Bake]

Im approaching 2000 and only got laid once bro. Women are difficult asf.

 

[focus]

Im approaching 2000 and only got laid once bro. Women are difficult asf.

You can go ahead and be a loser yourself. But don't try drag others down to your low level

 

[Shake&Bake]

You can go ahead and be a loser yourself. But don't try drag others down to your low level

You can go ahead and suck my dick

 

[DarkKnight]

Dammit someone ban this moron already

 

[Shake&Bake]

Dammit someone ban this moron already

Ban someone for defending themselves? That sounds about right. Kick Gravel you idiot. You get respect when you show respect you bafoon.

 

[DarkKnight]

Ban someone for defending themselves? That sounds about right. Kick Gravel you idiot. You get respect when you show respect you bafoon.

You sure do a lot of defending.

 

[Shake&Bake]

You sure do a lot of defending.

Yep you right. Lemme defend this ignore button. Whack

 

[Winston]

Alright guys, thank you a lot for your answers.

Following your advice, I have posted a FR, the one with the girl with who I came accross as needy:

FR - An eventful 1st date

So let's start with my first FR. I opened this girls in a library, she had her hands full of books and was looking for another one. I looked at the same book shelf next to her, and opened: Excuse me, you seem to know literature well, do you have a book to recommend me? I am looking for an...

www.skilledseducer.com

I have done several other dates since the one described in this FR, where I tried to escalate the vibe without neediness. I will post other FR in the coming days/weeks.

I think you care too much

I think you are being overly analytical. Might come off as uncalibrated.

Regarding being analytical, this is just the way my brain works.
I am definetely an "mechanical/slow learner" as described by Chase in this article:

The 3 Sorts of Lady-Killer (and Which One You Are)

In my article “Tactics Tuesdays: Calling Her When Texts Don’t Pan Out”, commenter AnonDude asked the following: “I found that interesting and it would be great if you could write a post on different styles and goals of seduction, pros and cons of each, combinations of different styles and stuff...

www.girlschase.com

I have a highly analytical personality, but that doesn't mean I am not present during my interactions. I am just highly analytical after the fact. This also seems to mean that I need to do every fucking possible mistakes to be able to understand what works and what doesn't work, which really sucks.

Regarding "caring too much", could you elaborate please?
I put a lot of effort in learning seduction, so I think this is normal to care. Within sets I have fun (not necessarily during my dates though).

I would concur a bit with what Fuck This said. If a girl is saying you come off as needy in any way before sex with her then that is definitely not ideal. That can be tricky because without a lay it can be a bit of a cycle, where you become needier due to putting so much effort in but minimal results. I would also be curious how your text/phone conversations go between approach and subsequent dates. Do you find yourself reaching out to them often?

I don't rely much on text game, my interactions are good enough to set up the first dates without the need of much texting in between (I soft close the date during the initial interaction).
But girls never reach out to me first after the first dates (and I don't have a lot of second date...), so I think the problem is definetly during the first date.

 

[Lofty]

Hey @Winston,

You should know that being analytical isn't a problem at all. In fact, and I'm sure you already realize this, being analytical can be a fantastic advantage when applied efficaciously.

I wholeheartedly agree with the points of @Lobo and @DML. In the podcast Lobo mentioned, @Bacchus discusses an exercise that highlights something he also writes about here. This exercise is not to just log all of your approaches, but to also break them down into the transition phases which he explains as:

• Approach to Hook-Point
• Hook-Point to Date or Hook-Point to Isolation
• Date to Pull or Isolation to Pull
• Pull to Sex

Doing so will allow you to easily troubleshoot the most necessary areas of improvement as you develop your overall skillset. Building your foundational skills upwards and upwards in a smooth progression by seeking out the necessary resources to quell the hangups of these transition phases. This process plays into your analytical strengths while ensuring that you will very likely see the data points improve over time.

And in terms of increasing the percentage of pulls from your dates and the escalations that follow, I’d encourage you to develop your verbal game to arouse and tempt the girl into sheer wetness to the point where she is more than ready when the hot-and-heavy moments come.

To initiate this process, I’d recommend these additional resources right now that will help teach you the fundamental concepts of female psychology and a powerful type of seduction at large:

PREREQUISITE to the Newbie Assignment (Optional/Recommended)

It takes wisdom to see where your knowledge is lacking. Especially with something as vital and elemental as your own sex life. And while it is this drive to know and experience more. . . which brought you here. You must also consider the position where your journey in seduction begins, if you...

www.skilledseducer.com

Confused About Pickup and Seduction? This Article Will Change That

If you study seduction, you’ll run into conflicting advice. Truth is, it ALL works, but not with ALL women, and not for ALL guys. The solution? Focus on these 3 keys. Contents I. The Science of Women II. So Who Should I Be? III. The Three Keys of Seduction IV. Advanced Techniques V. Seek Other...

www.girlschase.com

https://soundcloud.com/girlschase%2F23-gunwitch-the-basics-of-seduction-mma
These will aid you in molding your game to become of the tantalizingly potent kind that someone as intelligent as you clearly deserves anyway. You've already put in tons of good work to break down the initial barriers that many have when entering this community, and now it's time to level up to start getting the type of results we all want to have. The teachings of Bacchus and Gunwitch will help you get closer and closer to these aspirations.

Sometimes I think I am a slow learner and that it may not worth it to stay on this path because I may be not the kind of guy that can become good with women.
I find it incredibly difficult to fix mistakes such as "don't ask question before the hook point", sometimes I think I may never be able to fix that mistake.
Same things with my dating skills, it looks like that my dating skills will be sharp after maybe 100 dates, which seems like a fucking long period that will be peppered with frustation. Sometimes I am not even sure I have learned something since the beginning (objectively my results were better in the summer 2020 than in the summer 2021), and I am telling myself this might be just be a number games.

You are obviously not a slow learner - it is quite evident that you are highly intelligent. Remember that even a very intelligent person may not be getting results if they are not exposed to the correct solution. It seems that along the way, people have told you things that are blatantly untrue such as "don't ask a question before the hook point."

That is just blatantly wrong. Personally I hook nearly every girl I approach with forms of questions to stimulate her imagination, build intrigue, and generate compliance. Many of those "gurus" that say weird things like "don't ask a question before the hook point” will just pretend to know things without having the reference experiences to validate them and won't care about how they affect your sex life.

Instead of those wacky liars I'd highly recommend Gunwitch's SMMA which is a REAL pickup course that is predicated on true influence - true seduction - to help us build the sex lives of our dreams rather than to just gouge our pocketbooks like those other guys.

 

[Fuck This]

Alright guys, thank you a lot for your answers.

Alright guys, thank you a lot for your answers.


Regarding "caring too much", could you elaborate please?
I put a lot of effort in learning seduction, so I think this is normal to care. Within sets I have fun (not necessarily during my dates though).

Making cold approaches with low probability of success is meant to teach you rejection isn't the end of the world. Not be a lifetime pursuit. Think about what worked and what signs the women showed who were receptive to your advances. Distill down from your experiences how women reacted when you played it cool and didn't give them the full court press. Recognize the body language of interested women.

You never talked about what you are doing to improve your appearance and social skills. How have you created relationships with other men and been active in your field, and community and hobbies. When you put the energy into improving yourself and your social circle, women will come to you. Go workout/run/ bike 450 times and you will see more improvement than throwing yourself at women. Go volunteer with a service group 450 times and you will develop a social circle of people who care about their community and see that value in you.

Not every interaction with a person of the opposite sex has to be an approach to make her attracted. If you are social enough with a group, women WILL approach/open/ and proposition YOU.

 

[Beck Bass]

With this number of approaches, I guess working on your fundamentals should be a priority, so you get more results.
Dressing well and posture can up your odds quite a lot with women (say 25%? Chase sent a newsletter or it was an article in it in with a "breakdown" of percentages of how much you can get more attractive with each type of fundamental, I found it quite spot on).
It's hard to say really because maybe you're just ejecting too soon, or shotgun approaching too much, so not only you target many women that are less than ideal to approach, but you can also come off a bit too robotic.

About the dates though, 10% of lays is very far from ideal, pretty much every girl that goes out with you should be open to have something sexual, so unless you really have a reason to not bed this girl, or she comes up with a big objection on the date, like "I'm married" (even though sometimes that's just an excuse or can be overruled), you should at least be able to get a bit sexual with them.

It's hard not to be needy when you've been trying so hard and have little results, but you gotta chill. Self steem is big, you should believe you really are the prize, that girls would be thankful to have you in their lives, and you could always find a girl as attractive as her or more. If you don't feel this way, you should work on improving yourself so you really believe this to the core. When you do, in your interactions with women what you will be communicating is "I'm attracted to you (I like you/whatever) and I wanna bang you, because I'm sexual guy, but if you're not in, I can always go find some other girl", so you're kinda aggressive but chill at the same time. Like you show your intent (not necessarily verbally, this is mostly body language, eye contact and touching), but you also give her space to feel confortable and process this, it's like push and pull, your interactions should have this ebb and flow, it's a dance. If a girl is actting aloof or giving you low compliance, you should lower your compliance as well, maybe look away bored and this type of stuff, maybe even bring it up verbally, but in a chill, non needy, non passive agressive way (like "hey I really found you cute and interesting and we could have a great time together but right now it seems your a bit too distant, maybe you wanna call off this date and we can meet when you're in a better state of mind?" lol dunno).
You ALWAYS have to be willing to WALK AWAY, there's a big difference in persistence and chasing, showing that you are willing to let her go shows you have other options and it's attractive, but it needs to be done in a chill way, don't get MAD! lol
You need to show you're cool and civilized and in control of the situation (as much as you can be, if she's not really going to fuck you, there's nothing you can do, go find other girls).
Kino and escalation is super important, but you have to be checking if the girl is confortable, you really need to work on that too.

It's always great to work on the fundies... but where is the fitness? Your physique(and your posture which you said you are working on)has a strong role in your overall image and the first impression you give girls in the open. Working out also has a plethora of other health benefits.

Hell yeah working out makes you more in control of your body and more masculine, it's not just the visuals, it's the testosterone, the pain endurance, the confidence in your own body, and more

 

[Will_V]

Hello guys,

I want to talk about my current situation. And get, if possible, some feedback on what I am doing, and some guidance on what I could focus on/doing differently.
I am 34, live in Paris and before starting daygame I had slept with 6 girls in my life, including 2 LTR.

I have started cold approaches at the beginning of July 2020, I have done it until October 2020, then I had to stop because of lockdowns/curfews and also because I had a lot of work. I got lucky because around my 10th approach (!!!) I got laid with a really pretty 32-year-old Ukrainian girl. Then I got laid with a really pretty 22-year-old French girls on something like my 200th approach. Both of these girls were solid 7 I would say.

Then came the break due to covid restrictions, and I am back at it since June 2021.
Since June 2021 I have done 250 approaches, with no lay. I am trying to "trust the process" but this is sometimes difficult to not doubt myself and this whole project of mine of learning game.

So here the breakdown of my results over 450 approaches (I am not keeping track of my number closes):
- 17 first dates (which led to 4 second date)
- 3 instant dates (never saw them again)
- 2 lays (1 on the first date, 1 on the second date)

Well, I guess I suck at dating.
I understood recently that I tried to pull way too fast. I pulled the Ukrainian girl after less than one hour, with no escalatation at all. That was very lucky and this fuck up my subsequent dates because I tried to reproduce this with other girls, which failed every fucking time, and that probably made me lose points with many girls.

Besides pulling too soon, I was not escalating at all, many of my dates stayed on social conversations and the girls didn't agree for a second date because there were no seduction going on during the 1st dates. In my recent dates I am making the conversation more man to woman, I try to physically escalate and go for the kiss when I think it's a good idea. But with one recent girl I kissed, I was too needy (she litteraly told me exaclty this word over texts after the date), so now I focus on escalating properly without being needy. So I think I am slowly getting better at dating, but I still need a lot of work.

Along with cold approaches, I am also working on my fundamentals:
- Voice : currently following a voice coaching course whith a professionnal coach, which is spread over 6 courses. I am currently done with 2 of those 6 courses (because of holidays the course start again in September) and I am doing a daily exercise.
- Posture : My back is fuck up. I am doing a daily exercise to improve my posture and I plan to start the Alexander method from September
- Clothes : I think my clothes were okish but it made me lazy with it, I have stayed at the same level of "ok but not great" since the beginning. So recently I have started to buy new clothes to model the style of guys better dressed than me
- Hairstyle : I have recently done a new hairstyle which seems cool

Tonight I am feeling depressed because this afternoon I went for a solo session and due to few targets, and also approach anxiety, I have done only 1 set. And I did not manage it properly by making 2 mistakes :
- asking a close question before the hook point
- ejecting while the girl probably didn't mind talking to me (she was sitting and I did an indirect opener)

All of this take a lot of work, a lot of time and a lot of energy, and I am not sure where I am going.
Sometimes I think I am a slow learner and that it may not worth it to stay on this path because I may be not the kind of guy that can become good with women.
I find it incredibly difficult to fix mistakes such as "don't ask question before the hook point", sometimes I think I may never be able to fix that mistake.
Same things with my dating skills, it looks like that my dating skills will be sharp after maybe 100 dates, which seems like a fucking long period that will be peppered with frustation. Sometimes I am not even sure I have learned something since the beginning (objectively my results were better in the summer 2020 than in the summer 2021), and I am telling myself this might be just be a number games.

I had a look at your field report which was a good read, and plenty to be proud of. I think you know what you did that bombed it, you simultaneously showed resentment and bitterness, prized her ex and demoted yourself. OK no problem, shit happens, onto the next one.

But what I think would be good is if you wrote a field report of a 'typical' date, not the one that was going like fireworks and then you checkmated yourself.

Going by your posts, I'm going to guess that you are an intelligent, well presented and fairly attractive guy who a) does not know very well how to get sexual and b) treats what a woman says/does too seriously. You make fairly good first impressions, but do not know how to build excitement and anticipation, and you are prone to blundering from taking things too seriously.

I don't know how good your texting game is, and I won't comment because mine is quite bad, it's by far my worst area of game (though I'm improving). I'm sure @Skills can help you sort it out.

As far as getting things going on the date and at home, you need to start seeing women's objections as merely hurdles for you to jump. They are not to be taken seriously. Women do things that if a man did them, he would have to explain himself or deal with some kind of consequence. As a man, your job is to bed her, to get your dick in her, whether she objected initially to the idea of going home is irrelevant, whether she's treating you more testily than her ex is irrelevant, even if she does something outright annoying it's irrelevant - unless you want to walk away and leave her to someone else. OK fine. But while you're with her, your job is to stimulate her and maneuver her into bed, not take her words verbatim or her treat her objections as any kind of judgement.

The reason is that women are not logical. They say things merely to express an emotion. That emotion can change (quickly too, in either direction). You must read the emotional landscape, provoke the right emotion and feeling within her, and lead relentlessly toward the bedroom. Women don't bang because you did something 'right' or 'wrong', they bang because they feel like it. They just get horny and want it and (if the man did a good job with logistics) the opportunity is there. Getting her emotional (by relating to her on emotional, exciting, curiosity provoking, feely things) and then horny (steering conversation to sexual things, using eye contact, proximity, touch, tone etc) and then moving her to the bedroom is the way to go.

 

[Winston]

Thank you so much to all of you for your answers! Here and in my first FR.

I am still digging into all your answers and the ressources that you have shared with me. I will answer more thouroughly when I am done digging them.
I am so glad to have post this thread, I wouldn't have thought the answers would be so useful!

Going by your posts, I'm going to guess that you are an intelligent, well presented and fairly attractive guy who a) does not know very well how to get sexual and b) treats what a woman says/does too seriously. You make fairly good first impressions, but do not know how to build excitement and anticipation, and you are prone to blundering from taking things too seriously.

I think you nailed it.
I don't know how to build excitement and anticipation, and I am probably too serious and not enough playful in some part of the process.

And definetly I treat what women are saying too seriously, this is completly true.
I have already had this feedback from other guys better than me. This is even true for the approach part, where I ask myself too much if my approach makes a logical sense "why would I ask a girl that? this opener makes no sense", and then I give too much weight to their initial reaction, instead of keeping my frame.
I have not yet fully internalized the fact that women don't think the same way as men.
But this is difficult because it seems that they sometimes provide useful information on what to do, so I don't know how to select what to pick on and what to ignore.

But what I think would be good is if you wrote a field report of a 'typical' date, not the one that was going like fireworks and then you checkmated yourself.

I have posted another one, which may represent a more "typical" date:

FR - Two dates: a good one, a bad one

Here's my second FR. Chronologically the 1st date with this chick happened 1 week later than the one in my previous FR: https://www.skilledseducer.com/threads/an-eventful-1st-date.24762/ ---------------------------------------------------- I opened her in a park, she was walking slowly. This...

www.skilledseducer.com

But I think have had a breakthrough since my 6 last dates (I still have 4 FR of dates to post) and that there is at least some seduction going on in most of them.
The 2nd date of this FR is a resurgence of my old dating behaviour (before the 6 last one), when I had dates that went nowhere (ie. only comfort and no flirt, Let just be friends frame).

 

[Winston]

Alright guys, as I said I have dug into all the resources (podcasts and articles) you have provided. Thanks again for that. Also I have written 3 FRs that took me quite some time to write.

Now as promised some answers on specific points:

It's always great to work on the fundies... but where is the fitness? Your physique(and your posture which you said you are working on)has a strong role in your overall image and the first impression you give girls in the open. Working out also has a plethora of other health benefits.

I used to work out regularly but over the last 2 months I had dedicated so much time and energy to cold approaches that I have dropped the ball regarding that. Now I am back to my old work out routine and I think I will quickly get back to my previous level.

Hey @Winston,

You should know that being analytical isn't a problem at all. In fact, and I'm sure you already realize this, being analytical can be a fantastic advantage when applied efficaciously.

I wholeheartedly agree with the points of @Lobo and @DML. In the podcast Lobo mentioned, @Bacchus discusses an exercise that highlights something he also writes about here. This exercise is not to just log all of your approaches, but to also break them down into the transition phases which he explains as:

• Approach to Hook-Point
• Hook-Point to Date or Hook-Point to Isolation
• Date to Pull or Isolation to Pull
• Pull to Sex

Doing so will allow you to easily troubleshoot the most necessary areas of improvement as you develop your overall skillset. Building your foundational skills upwards and upwards in a smooth progression by seeking out the necessary resources to quell the hangups of these transition phases. This process plays into your analytical strengths while ensuring that you will very likely see the data points improve over time.

And in terms of increasing the percentage of pulls from your dates and the escalations that follow, I’d encourage you to develop your verbal game to arouse and tempt the girl into sheer wetness to the point where she is more than ready when the hot-and-heavy moments come.

To initiate this process, I’d recommend these additional resources right now that will help teach you the fundamental concepts of female psychology and a powerful type of seduction at large:

PREREQUISITE to the Newbie Assignment (Optional/Recommended)

It takes wisdom to see where your knowledge is lacking. Especially with something as vital and elemental as your own sex life. And while it is this drive to know and experience more. . . which brought you here. You must also consider the position where your journey in seduction begins, if you...

www.skilledseducer.com

Confused About Pickup and Seduction? This Article Will Change That

If you study seduction, you’ll run into conflicting advice. Truth is, it ALL works, but not with ALL women, and not for ALL guys. The solution? Focus on these 3 keys. Contents I. The Science of Women II. So Who Should I Be? III. The Three Keys of Seduction IV. Advanced Techniques V. Seek Other...

www.girlschase.com

https://soundcloud.com/girlschase%2F23-gunwitch-the-basics-of-seduction-mma
These will aid you in molding your game to become of the tantalizingly potent kind that someone as intelligent as you clearly deserves anyway. You've already put in tons of good work to break down the initial barriers that many have when entering this community, and now it's time to level up to start getting the type of results we all want to have. The teachings of Bacchus and Gunwitch will help you get closer and closer to these aspirations.

You are obviously not a slow learner - it is quite evident that you are highly intelligent. Remember that even a very intelligent person may not be getting results if they are not exposed to the correct solution. It seems that along the way, people have told you things that are blatantly untrue such as "don't ask a question before the hook point."

That is just blatantly wrong. Personally I hook nearly every girl I approach with forms of questions to stimulate her imagination, build intrigue, and generate compliance. Many of those "gurus" that say weird things like "don't ask a question before the hook point” will just pretend to know things without having the reference experiences to validate them and won't care about how they affect your sex life.

Instead of those wacky liars I'd highly recommend Gunwitch's SMMA which is a REAL pickup course that is predicated on true influence - true seduction - to help us build the sex lives of our dreams rather than to just gouge our pocketbooks like those other guys.

Right now I think I have a lot of room for improvement in each of these 4 phases, but it's by troubleshooting the 2 lasts phases (date-to-pull and pull-to-sex) that my results will improve the most (my two last FR are about girls lost after a pull). I think my approach:date ratio is decent, if my results are bad it's because I lose too many girls at the date/isolation stage.

The idea of not asking questions before the hook point comes from the London Daygame Model, I do agree this is not a universal truth.
I am considering buying Gunwitch's SMMA, but I will probably do that in a few months because I don't think I am at a level where I will make the best use of it.

With this number of approaches, I guess working on your fundamentals should be a priority, so you get more results.
Dressing well and posture can up your odds quite a lot with women (say 25%? Chase sent a newsletter or it was an article in it in with a "breakdown" of percentages of how much you can get more attractive with each type of fundamental, I found it quite spot on).
It's hard to say really because maybe you're just ejecting too soon, or shotgun approaching too much, so not only you target many women that are less than ideal to approach, but you can also come off a bit too robotic.

About the dates though, 10% of lays is very far from ideal, pretty much every girl that goes out with you should be open to have something sexual, so unless you really have a reason to not bed this girl, or she comes up with a big objection on the date, like "I'm married" (even though sometimes that's just an excuse or can be overruled), you should at least be able to get a bit sexual with them.

It's hard not to be needy when you've been trying so hard and have little results, but you gotta chill. Self steem is big, you should believe you really are the prize, that girls would be thankful to have you in their lives, and you could always find a girl as attractive as her or more. If you don't feel this way, you should work on improving yourself so you really believe this to the core. When you do, in your interactions with women what you will be communicating is "I'm attracted to you (I like you/whatever) and I wanna bang you, because I'm sexual guy, but if you're not in, I can always go find some other girl", so you're kinda aggressive but chill at the same time. Like you show your intent (not necessarily verbally, this is mostly body language, eye contact and touching), but you also give her space to feel confortable and process this, it's like push and pull, your interactions should have this ebb and flow, it's a dance. If a girl is actting aloof or giving you low compliance, you should lower your compliance as well, maybe look away bored and this type of stuff, maybe even bring it up verbally, but in a chill, non needy, non passive agressive way (like "hey I really found you cute and interesting and we could have a great time together but right now it seems your a bit too distant, maybe you wanna call off this date and we can meet when you're in a better state of mind?" lol dunno).
You ALWAYS have to be willing to WALK AWAY, there's a big difference in persistence and chasing, showing that you are willing to let her go shows you have other options and it's attractive, but it needs to be done in a chill way, don't get MAD! lol
You need to show you're cool and civilized and in control of the situation (as much as you can be, if she's not really going to fuck you, there's nothing you can do, go find other girls). Kino and escalation is super important, but you have to be checking if the girl is confortable, you really need to work on that too.

I don't think my fundamentals are the problems, I think the problems are game-related (ie. conversational skills during the initial interaction, and inner game and escalation during dates).
Yes I need more self-esteem to believe I am the prize, but how do I believe that when I have no reference experience to prove me that? This is a catch-22 situation.
I am trying to do more kino in dates, but it takes some time to make that natural.
Basically now that I am showing intent in date (instead of being asexual), I came accross as too needy. I had a date yesterday where I think this was the problem (showing intent but with a failure to make the girl horny enough). I will write a FR on this date that happened yesterday because I think there are some interesting learning points for me.

I had a look at your field report which was a good read, and plenty to be proud of. I think you know what you did that bombed it, you simultaneously showed resentment and bitterness, prized her ex and demoted yourself. OK no problem, shit happens, onto the next one.

But what I think would be good is if you wrote a field report of a 'typical' date, not the one that was going like fireworks and then you checkmated yourself.

Going by your posts, I'm going to guess that you are an intelligent, well presented and fairly attractive guy who a) does not know very well how to get sexual and b) treats what a woman says/does too seriously. You make fairly good first impressions, but do not know how to build excitement and anticipation, and you are prone to blundering from taking things too seriously.

I don't know how good your texting game is, and I won't comment because mine is quite bad, it's by far my worst area of game (though I'm improving). I'm sure @Skills can help you sort it out.

As far as getting things going on the date and at home, you need to start seeing women's objections as merely hurdles for you to jump. They are not to be taken seriously. Women do things that if a man did them, he would have to explain himself or deal with some kind of consequence. As a man, your job is to bed her, to get your dick in her, whether she objected initially to the idea of going home is irrelevant, whether she's treating you more testily than her ex is irrelevant, even if she does something outright annoying it's irrelevant - unless you want to walk away and leave her to someone else. OK fine. But while you're with her, your job is to stimulate her and maneuver her into bed, not take her words verbatim or her treat her objections as any kind of judgement.

The reason is that women are not logical. They say things merely to express an emotion. That emotion can change (quickly too, in either direction). You must read the emotional landscape, provoke the right emotion and feeling within her, and lead relentlessly toward the bedroom. Women don't bang because you did something 'right' or 'wrong', they bang because they feel like it. They just get horny and want it and (if the man did a good job with logistics) the opportunity is there. Getting her emotional (by relating to her on emotional, exciting, curiosity provoking, feely things) and then horny (steering conversation to sexual things, using eye contact, proximity, touch, tone etc) and then moving her to the bedroom is the way to go.

Yeah building excitement is a mystery for me, especially without appearing needy. During my date of yesterday I didn't take the girl too much seriously, but maybe I didn't do enough confort to address her objections. And I think I managed to build some excitment, but not enough. I will do a detailed FR by tomorrow.

Also during my last 30 approaches (I am at 485 approaches now), I had several opportunities for doing idates, but I didn't go for the idate because I literally didn't know what to say to the girl/because the momentum of the conversation was going down after a few minutes.

The pattern of several of these interactions was:
Good approach and good start of conversation => hook point => the quality of the conversation decrease and conversation get boring => I number close before losing all interest from the girl (thus no idate whereas the girl had nothing to do)

I think this is both a inner game issue (I am afraid of not knowing what to say to the girl during an idate) and a technical issue (bad conversationnal skills).

 

[Will_V]

Alright guys, as I said I have dug into all the resources (podcasts and articles) you have provided. Thanks again for that. Also I have written 3 FRs that took me quite some time to write.

Now as promised some answers on specific points:

I used to work out regularly but over the last 2 months I had dedicated so much time and energy to cold approaches that I have dropped the ball regarding that. Now I am back to my old work out routine and I think I will quickly get back to my previous level.


Right now I think I have a lot of room for improvement in each of these 4 phases, but it's by troubleshooting the 2 lasts phases (date-to-pull and pull-to-sex) that my results will improve the most (my two last FR are about girls lost after a pull). I think my approach:date ratio is decent, if my results are bad it's because I lose too many girls at the date/isolation stage.

The idea of not asking questions before the hook point comes from the London Daygame Model, I do agree this is not a universal truth.
I am considering buying Gunwitch's SMMA, but I will probably do that in a few months because I don't think I am at a level where I will make the best use of it.

I don't think my fundamentals are the problems, I think the problems are game-related (ie. conversational skills during the initial interaction, and inner game and escalation during dates).
Yes I need more self-esteem to believe I am the prize, but how do I believe that when I have no reference experience to prove me that? This is a catch-22 situation.
I am trying to do more kino in dates, but it takes some time to make that natural.
Basically now that I am showing intent in date (instead of being asexual), I came accross as too needy. I had a date yesterday where I think this was the problem (showing intent but with a failure to make the girl horny enough). I will write a FR on this date that happened yesterday because I think there are some interesting learning points for me.

Yeah building excitement is a mystery for me, especially without appearing needy. During my date of yesterday I didn't take the girl too much seriously, but maybe I didn't do enough confort to address her objections. And I think I managed to build some excitment, but not enough. I will do a detailed FR by tomorrow.

Also during my last 30 approaches (I am at 485 approaches now), I had several opportunities for doing idates, but I didn't go for the idate because I literally didn't know what to say to the girl/because the momentum of the conversation was going down after a few minutes.

The pattern of several of these interactions was:
Good approach and good start of conversation => hook point => the quality of the conversation decrease and conversation get boring => I number close before losing all interest from the girl (thus no idate whereas the girl had nothing to do)

I think this is both a inner game issue (I am afraid of not knowing what to say to the girl during an idate) and a technical issue (bad conversationnal skills).

If you're getting too needy and intense when trying to build excitement, it might be good to start thinking of seduction as play rather than being on some kind of mission.

When I'm talking to a girl, I like to play around with slowing down my voice, suddenly pausing for a few seconds while looking into her eyes with a slight smile and then continuing as if nothing happened, stepping in and out of her personal space with slow body movements, letting my eyes linger on some part of her face/neck for a second and then returning to her gaze with a bit of a smile like "so shoot me then".

It's so much fun to do it, it's like psychologically tickling her. And for me, it releases my sexual energy in a calm and comfortable way rather than it being something sort of hiding in the background of the interaction and winding me up.

And the important thing is that this kind of flirting is exactly what girls are for, in my reality. They aren't there for some serious, tense purpose but for filling a man's life with spontaneous delight, taking his mind that is usually preoccupied with planning and responsibility on a holiday to the lighter, less self-conscious, and more playful side of life.

So next time a girl is in front of you, think, what do I fundamentally enjoy about being with her right now? What about her tickles my balls at this moment? And focus and expand that with your body language and self expression.