Talking to your girl about performance anxiety: more mortifying than PA itself

[PatriotsRule]

Evening gents

recently been dating my girl and rekindled my relationship with performance anxiety... Theres been the good (hottest horniest sex ive ever had both of us coming hard during sex); the bad (weak and quick sex with nobody coming because i go soft shortly after getting into it); and the ugly (i never get hard and/or her getting sore because i use my hands to get her off too often)

We have a great relationship... But this is the one thing that puts a great thing in jeopardy. Ive slowly got myself to follow the advice given in previous threads- but the one thing i have decided i need to get through, is simply talking with her about my pa/ed. This conversation is highly mortifying for me, and i think a lot of that is because i just dont know how i want to approach it. I could use some advice.

She has brought it up a couple times- she is very patient but sort of snapped the other night. She told me in frustration "i know its hard to deal with but you need to figure this out- i want us to be able to fuck whenever we want"...sounds like an ultimatum, doesnt it? Shes totally right and i want that too but its scary for me to think that its starting to get to her. I thought i could hold her over by pleasuring her in other ways but she says she gets sore a lot from me getting her off with my fingers inside her- she comes hard and often this way but then feels sore often.

How can i approach this conversation with her? It is time that i say my part because when she has previously brought it up i just say the minimum to diffuse the moment then move on.. I think the other side of this talk will be good for my mentality but this is already a situation that is ego crushing and stressful as fuck so i want to make sure i know how i want things to go before i bring it up again.

Just to be clear, i am only asking for advice on how to have a conversation about pa/ed. I know some suggest to just not bring it up, but i think a big part of tackling this issue will be to clear the air and speak about it with my girl. Perhaps i need her on board to help get me through this as a team- we both know we have great potential for great sex together but its not happening- maybe this will be a good step toward regrouping and powering through this.

Thanks gentlemen.

 

[PatriotsRule]

Re: Talking to your girl about performance anxiety: more mortifying than PA itse

Also, just one tidbit of information to add, she had also noted that she feels "disconnected" because this happens. Just a comment she made that i remembered that i think is important to add to the story.

 

[ray_zorse]

Re: Talking to your girl about performance anxiety: more mortifying than PA itse

Hmm it's an interesting question which I pondered for quite a while overnight, I have been in much the same situation before, so I think I am qualified to comment although I suspect it might not be quite the thing you're wanting to hear.

Just to be clear, i am only asking for advice on how to have a conversation about pa/ed.

Well I will answer your direct question first: The only good thing you could say (IMO) is along the lines "sure I understand, if your sexual needs aren't being met, do feel free to look elsewhere, it's no biggie at all"... otherwise I wouldn't bring it up. What you're proposing looks super needy and puts you in the position of a supplicant, this won't fly for very long, and I also don't see it as a healthy step towards a longer term solution.

My diagnosis here is that you're not approaching the situation from a position of sufficient abundance. When I hear dudes say in the forums (and I hear this a lot) "it's an ideal relationship except for this one tiny problem" what this screams to me is SCARCITY, the dude knows what he has to do, but doesn't have the confidence, therefore he's convincing himself the situation is better than it is, to justify remaining statically in his comfort zone.

So what's happening here is that having pedestalized her to some extent you're feeling it's your responsibility to provide sex and hard dick to her, well that's not the case. And you're also putting pressure on yourself because you feel if you don't step up to the plate you'll lose the girl. WRONG MINDSET. If SHE doesn't step up to the plate SHE WILL LOSE YOU. See what I mean about the abundance? Anyway, takes two to tango man.

So you're now going to dismiss my argument saying "no no, she's doing everything possible to get me hard", well look at the objective evidence, is it working? Check out this story, specifically the part that says

"IT WAS LIKE SHE HIJACKED MY BRAIN"

That's what a good sex partner will do. You can't think logically or remain in your head, your dick will get hard whether you like it or not. Okay, so in real life they're not all high-class hookers or sexy summer interns blowing you under your desk, but you still take my point right? If you find yourself in the situation where both of you are just focusing on your dick and waiting for it to get hard, not only is it poor leadership on your part, but its also poor sex-work on her part, don't forget that!!

The advice we give here is once things settle into an unhealthy pattern with a girl (such as a friendzone) to move on and seek other options. I'm not saying you must NEXT her, and I appreciate that you probably do have a good relationship and enjoy spending time together, but I am saying that if you were to get out and approach ten other women and get one of them into your bed, likely you'd garner a good reference experience and more to the point, IT WOULD BE WITH A GIRL WHO DOESN'T HAVE THE IMPRESSION OF YOU AS HAVING ERECTION DIFFICULTIES so things would happen much more naturally. And if things go downhill, well get another girl.

Why I suggest doing this is something to do with your frame: You really need to internalize that being the sexy dominant guy that you are, SHE IS PRIVILEGED TO BE WITH YOU, she is not "doing you a favour" by "getting on your team" and working through your erection difficulties with you. At the end of the day if you're going to build and retain attraction you can't be looking to her for help, it's okay to be vulnerable at times but basically you need to be the man. But you need to train yourself to be the man over time by gathering positive reference experiences, you can't just do it out of fear that you're gonna lose the girl, that's not how it works.

Ray

 

[HellAtlantic]

Re: Talking to your girl about performance anxiety: more mortifying than PA itse

I know you said you want advice how to talk about PA - but at what point do you decide some of the advice you've been given just isn't working and you need to resort to medication for the solution? There's a reason why Cialis and Viagra was invented. At some point you kinda have to address the elephant in the room and acknowledge you need a little more help than some simple remedies can deliver. If your issues are leading to frustration on the girl's part then you need to take the remedy to the next level. There's no shame in taking a pill. You need something to level the playing field. There's worse problems to have. Do what you need to do and move on and be thankful your girl has been this patient with you up to this point.

 

[HellAtlantic]

Re: Talking to your girl about performance anxiety: more mortifying than PA itse

Hmm it's an interesting question which I pondered for quite a while overnight, I have been in much the same situation before, so I think I am qualified to comment although I suspect it might not be quite the thing you're wanting to hear.

Just to be clear, i am only asking for advice on how to have a conversation about pa/ed.

Well I will answer your direct question first: The only good thing you could say (IMO) is along the lines "sure I understand, if your sexual needs aren't being met, do feel free to look elsewhere, it's no biggie at all"... otherwise I wouldn't bring it up. What you're proposing looks super needy and puts you in the position of a supplicant, this won't fly for very long, and I also don't see it as a healthy step towards a longer term solution.

My diagnosis here is that you're not approaching the situation from a position of sufficient abundance. When I hear dudes say in the forums (and I hear this a lot) "it's an ideal relationship except for this one tiny problem" what this screams to me is SCARCITY, the dude knows what he has to do, but doesn't have the confidence, therefore he's convincing himself the situation is better than it is, to justify remaining statically in his comfort zone.

So what's happening here is that having pedestalized her to some extent you're feeling it's your responsibility to provide sex and hard dick to her, well that's not the case. And you're also putting pressure on yourself because you feel if you don't step up to the plate you'll lose the girl. WRONG MINDSET. If SHE doesn't step up to the plate SHE WILL LOSE YOU. See what I mean about the abundance? Anyway, takes two to tango man.

So you're now going to dismiss my argument saying "no no, she's doing everything possible to get me hard", well look at the objective evidence, is it working? Check out this story, specifically the part that says

"IT WAS LIKE SHE HIJACKED MY BRAIN"

That's what a good sex partner will do. You can't think logically or remain in your head, your dick will get hard whether you like it or not. Okay, so in real life they're not all high-class hookers or sexy summer interns blowing you under your desk, but you still take my point right? If you find yourself in the situation where both of you are just focusing on your dick and waiting for it to get hard, not only is it poor leadership on your part, but its also poor sex-work on her part, don't forget that!!

The advice we give here is once things settle into an unhealthy pattern with a girl (such as a friendzone) to move on and seek other options. I'm not saying you must NEXT her, and I appreciate that you probably do have a good relationship and enjoy spending time together, but I am saying that if you were to get out and approach ten other women and get one of them into your bed, likely you'd garner a good reference experience and more to the point, IT WOULD BE WITH A GIRL WHO DOESN'T HAVE THE IMPRESSION OF YOU AS HAVING ERECTION DIFFICULTIES so things would happen much more naturally. And if things go downhill, well get another girl.

Why I suggest doing this is something to do with your frame: You really need to internalize that being the sexy dominant guy that you are, SHE IS PRIVILEGED TO BE WITH YOU, she is not "doing you a favour" by "getting on your team" and working through your erection difficulties with you. At the end of the day if you're going to build and retain attraction you can't be looking to her for help, it's okay to be vulnerable at times but basically you need to be the man. But you need to train yourself to be the man over time by gathering positive reference experiences, you can't just do it out of fear that you're gonna lose the girl, that's not how it works.

Ray

I normally agree with your advice so I feel odd completely disagreeing with you here but you are 100% wrong here and this kind of thinking is what's wrong with PU/game community. The mindset that the girl is the problem and if she can't get on board then she gets nexted. That it takes two to tango. It actually takes a guy to get erect and a girl willing to be penetrated by that guy, then the tango dance can happen. It's up to the guy to be the best version of himself that he can be, it's not the girl's place to conform to the guy. A girl will always have more options than a guy will, believe it or not, because there's so many guys trying to get in her pants that she can afford to let only the best and most quality dicks inside her. If there's performance issues then sorry, problem is with the guy and its not her fault nor her place to so somersaults just to get a guy hard when there's like 10 other guys lined up who are willing and able to perform. Hence my advice to use medication to solve the problem.

If you keep giving advice to guys to next the girl at the first sign of problems then the guy thinks he never has to change or get better and the problem is always with the girl and that's simply not true. It's nice to give a guy a boost of confidence and put him in the right mindset of "this rejection doesn't matter because there's plenty of fish in the sea" but in terms of addressing issues and solving problems then that horrible advice. But your advice Ray is in line with standard PU/game advice so it's not all you, I'm addressing more that mindset than anything else.

Sorry Patriots, but you gotta take the remedy to the next level if diet and excersize and visualization techniques aren't doing it for you. You'll know you need medication when: 1) you're naked, 2) she's naked and 3) she's doing something to your dick and it still isn't getting hard. You don't lose any "man points" by using a pill to get hard, you lose "man points" for not doing what you need to do to solve the issue and do what's needed to give your girl a good dicking. Swallow pride and then swallow a pill and then rock n roll.

 

[ray_zorse]

Re: Talking to your girl about performance anxiety: more mortifying than PA itse

That's so lame on many levels! I do feel a bit defensive here haha, I probably shouldn't, but I will try to explain/justify these viewpoints I have described.

Firstly I never said to NEXT the girl! The concern here is if she doesn't get the dick she needs she may NEXT herself! Until that happens, obviously persist in trying different things until something works. But my point is if she NEXTs herself it's no biggie, just means you learned something about girls you aren't sexually compatible with or mental strategies that don't work for you when you're in a certain mood. Go get another girl and either be more sexually compatible with her, be in a different mood or try different strategies for mental control. More to the point remind yourself in the moment if you start to panic that IT'S NO BIGGIE, WHAT WILL BE, WILLBE, AND YOU CAN EASILY GET ANOTHER GIRL AND TRY SOMETHING DIFFERENT. If you think this and BELIEVE
(preferably with lots of positive cold approach reference experiences and a phonefull of numbers and a week of dates in the pipeline), it really takes the pressure off. Like, eh, soldier's not up to scratch today, day off ehhh... whatevs...

Secondly, will reply later I'm out w kids but this got me abit hot under the collar haha well back to parenting and fractious children

Ray

 

[ray_zorse]

Re: Talking to your girl about performance anxiety: more mortifying than PA itse

Ahh yeah so let's see.

A girl will always have more options than a guy will, believe it or not, because there's so many guys trying to get in her pants that she can afford to let only the best and most quality dicks inside her. If there's performance issues then sorry, problem is with the guy and its not her fault nor her place to so somersaults just to get a guy hard when there's like 10 other guys lined up who are willing and able to perform.

Let's try to see this a bit more from the girl's viewpoint.

Girls have abundance, yes, but they never feel they have ABSOLUTE abundance. This was Franco's wise advice here, and it definitely explained a phenomenon that I was puzzled by.

Thing is that girls don't (usually) cold approach. So their options are limited to passive ways of generating attraction -- such as by fashion, makeup and body fundamentals. Their mating strategy is essentially to look good and wait for a guy to approach. Why? Well, female attraction works kind of like a 100-point ID check. So unless he has crazy value, like from preselection, social position or body fundamentals, then he needs to actively work to earn the 33 points or so that a cold approach provides him. Why does female attraction work like this? Because she is going to be pregnant for 9 months and potentially child rearing for a lot longer, a huge investment in time. So nature provides a way to hold her in check and let her wait say 3 to 6 months for a strong, dominant male to come along before she is inclined to invest in this manner. This way she gets a stronger offspring to spread her genes. That is, she needs a guy who grabs what he wants.

Now suppose after the HARD work of making herself look good EVERY DAY for months and months, working out etc, and putting herself in places a high value man is likely to be and spending time there... she gathers some leads. Like a dude approaches (33pts), builds a connection (33pts), this qualifies him for spending alone-time... he isolates (17pts) and starts to make out with her... he's only a few points away from being approved for mating. Is she going to lie there like a dead fish? No, she's going to try to maximize the return she can get from these leads.

She knows he's a high value man with lots of options. Why would he want to commit to her and help raise their child if she was a boring no-fun in bed? She is doing everything possible to make it a fun experience for him and her! Sucking his dick, love bombing... if it's not happening down there, OF COURSE she is gonna try to step up to the plate and fix things. Add to the fact that women are intuitive, compassionate, caring, nice... OF COURSE she'll try to make him comfortable. And SHE WANTS HIM TO GET THOSE LAST POINTS, SHE DEFINITELY WANTS TO HELP HIM QUALIFY!

Selfishness also plays a role, SHE LOVES SEX AND WANTS A GOOD DICKING, THIS WILL ONLY HAPPEN IF SHE ACTIVELY HELPS TO MAKE IT HAPPEN (guys who believe it is their sole responsibility to provide the sex experience that a woman wants are in scarcity). This applies doubly so if she got drunk / lonely / bored / frustrated and decided to settle for her best option at the time, which is a social risk... after paying that price IS SHE GOING TO GO HOME WITH NO ORGASM? NOT IF SHE CAN HELP IT!!!

The only real fly in the ointment is that women are generally terrible at sex / leadership (after all they read Cosmo, need I say more)... so she'll TRY but she likely won't do the right things. This is why I said:

If you find yourself in the situation where both of you are just focusing on your dick and waiting for it to get hard, not only is it poor leadership on your part, but its also poor sex-work on her part, don't forget that!!

I hope that makes things clearer. But honestly, your comment did not show a deep understanding of what this site teaches. The fact that you used these ideas (girls have abundance, men have to work to qualify) as STARTING POINTS for your logic indicates to me you haven't sufficiently questioned these long-held beliefs. And believe me I held exactly the same wrong mindsets, we all did. It's VERY IMPORTANT to leave these kind of limiting beliefs behind. Only that way can you shake out the cobwebs and become the man you were truly intended to be (lots of women chasing you for r/ship all the time, like I have now).

I suggest to read some site articles like "How to get girls: The last post you'll ever need" and "I don't chase 'em, I replace em". Really try to internalize them. But more to the point, put the teachings into practice, that's the only way you can really train your brain to BELIEVE that you're a high value man.

But also I was a bit upset to be put in the "PUA / game" basket because honestly if I have a problem, it's being too nice to girls and not NEXTing them when I should. You can easily see the contrast between say, my advice and Dude909's advice in these forums (but I stopped jumping in early and started to try to anticipate what he would say instead, cos I know he's right really).

I'm a guy who is nice to women and I don't NEXT at the first sign of problems, I NEXT when things have undoubtedly settled into an unhealthy pattern, as I said.

I'm qualified to give advice on PA/ED because I've struggled with it a lot AND STILL DO. For instance check out this LR- from almost a year ago. It's a case where I basically panicked and lost my mental control (not to mention my frame)... needless to say she didn't come back for a second helping. Well, HUGE progress since then.

Now a more recent story. About this time last week I was quite sick with a cold and tired and generally not feeling great, and although I make it a rule to make love to my girlfriend EVERY TIME we hang out, AT LEAST ONCE A DAY, this time I did actually make an exception and said nah, I didn't feel like it (mainly because I was anxious about exactly the same situation as PatriotsRule described here, I'm usually in my head during sex, a problem that I'm always trying to work on, but somehow I bumble through with mental control... this time I just couldn't face it because it's hard work)... but we made out a little and somehow ended up having sex cos why not, I still felt anxious but decided to go ahead (her general thirst for the dick and her hard work to get dick may play a role in this).

I went soft inside her multiple times and each time she asked "what's wrong" and I just smiled and said "nothing's wrong" and went back to what I was doing (banging her with a soft cock and trying to think of sexy things to get hard again inside her and failing)... tried various things, withdraw, get a handjob, etc... something similar also happened the previous week when we tried having public sex just for something different... so I was sensing a really unhealthy pattern developing, and honestly I was thinking about this post right here, and thinking how I haven't been very good with my affirmations lately... started to worry that if we had a bad sex session it might hurt my frame irretrievably and she'd lose respect / attraction for me... well I rapidly identified this thought stream as coming from scarcity, and told myself sternly "IT DOESN'T MATTER, SHE'S A NICE GIRL BUT SHE CAN STAY OR LEAVE, MY DICK IS GIVING LOTS OF WOMEN LOTS OF PLEASURE SO SHE CAN TAKE THE GOOD WITH THE BAD"... felt much better. Eventually I got off by her hand, but it sure wasn't my finest hour.

I'm happy to report that I'm back on top with a sex session that was really enjoyable recently, was super hard and not too in my head at all. But this was mainly down to good mental control (mindfully having sex and enjoying the sensations and just using a little imagery of my hard dick if I felt my mind wandering), which I think was in turn due to my being quite fresh and sharp at the time, and naturally horny. Anyway, a good positive reference experience that allays my concerns.

I honestly think your advice to take drugs is not good advice. Drugs are helpful if there's a medical or urological issue. But PA/ED is by definition a mental thing. If you keep with the same poor mental hygiene (rehearsing failure and so on), then drugs could only ever provide a temporary solution, nothing would really change. The only way I could see drugs being useful would be in a REALLY BAD case where he has so many negative reference experiences that it's really hard for him to develop mental control, but in that case he should only use the drugs enough times to gather positive reference experiences, and mainly work on his mental control. Really, you don't need a crutch... it's like approaching on alcohol, it allays approach anxiety but also teaches you to be dependent on it, not to mention hurting your game in other ways (and I'm sure you'd develop a tolerence to Viagra, or even just a mental addiction, leaving you in a WORSE PLACE).

Now just one other comment on my story: When she asked what was wrong I simply held my frame, smile as if nothing's wrong (because it really wasn't) and say "nothing's wrong"... this came from a place of my genuine belief that it's natural to go soft inside a woman, there could be so many reasons... could be down to tiredness, a cold, being in your head, could be you're not so horny because you just fucked three other women that day, could be that that sex position just doesn't work well for you... has absolutely nothing to do with your attraction for her. (And saying that you're the problem if you're with a naked women who's holding your dick and it's not hard, THAT ADVICE IS SO WRONG AND UNHELPFUL, IT WILL MAKE A DUDE FEEL THERE'S SOMETHING IRRETRIEVABLY WRONG WITH HIM AND IT'S NOT OKAY TO BE WHO HE IS). In a lot of your posts I see you mention "the elephant in the room" and your feeling you need to address any such elephants. THIS IS A TERRIBLY HARMFUL LIMITING BELIEF. What it actually means is you're not good at handling tension. See Chase's advice here. If tension exists and you break it, you look weak and beta. On the other hand, if you get your way by holding your frame for as long as necessary, despite the presence of potentially conflicting data, you look strong and dominant!

Ray

 

[HellAtlantic]

Re: Talking to your girl about performance anxiety: more mortifying than PA itse

I too have had PA and I took necessary steps to correct. Pills was part of the solution as well as diet and excersize. Pills were useful in allowing me to get hard when I needed and give her the dick she needs and start getting used to hitting home runs again. PA just gets progressively worse because the last non-performance affects the current attempt at performance. There's such a stigma attached to pills but for guys in their 20s they use it almost as a party drug. They use pills as performance boosters. And guys in their 20s certainly don't need any help.

The general theme of game community is "next her, she's no big deal" which is an empowering mindset but that doesn't force the guy to better himself. It's great to have abundance but if you keep having PA then all the girls in the world aren't gonna help you. Take a pill, bang her good a few times to get your confidence back. PA is all mental, if you can get hard to jack off then you have no problem getting hard in a vagina. Your brain is just shutting down from fear of disappointment because the last few times didn't work out. You now need to make sure your brain remembers the last few times as having been successful fucks and to do that you appear to need the need of a pill. It's no big deal. I'm sure with all the guys getting laid on this site at least 1/3 of them are using performance boosters. It's natural and just be lucky science has invented things like Viagra and Cialis to help.