The "Add me on snap!" Phenomenon of Dating Apps

[Hue]

Yo,

Almost got my Tinder game down to getting actual dates, I feel like I'm inches away. The only pulls I've had from Tinder have been late night booty calls.

I've run into a recurring problem, which is right around number-close time.

Times where I'll have just:

- Set up the date
- Asked for a number
- Suggested a date
- Said something flirty

I'll get a response of, "Do you have a snapchat / ig? " or "Add me on snapchat! [username]" or "What's your last name?"

I think this it's one of three things most of the time.

1). She just wants followers / attention on social media.

Girls are into that shit, they need their followers up, or they get a kick out of another social media orbiter. You can somewhat screen for this if their snap/instagram username is already in their bio. Hell, I bet there's some chicks where that's a major objective of their accounts.
Next.

2). She's new to online dating, can't tell if it's a fake account by the message exchange, and/or is afraid to proceed.

My texts haven't made her feel comfortable enough, she doesn't trust my pics and texts matching the real me.
Maybe I'm one of the first matches that hasn't texted her "wanna fuck?" or had a 4 day conversation about her love for dolphins, and she's never been asked in such a direct way that cuts the crap. She gets too anxious and second guesses it.

3). It's a shit test.

She responds to my "blah blah blah let's get coffee" with a deflection and doesn't address what I just presented, and wants to see what I'll do.


Most recently this was my convo, that inspired me taking the concept to the boards:

Me: helloo [name], how's Tinder world treating you? (took this from Narrow J)
Her: Shitty
Her: Have yet to find a bf *cheesing emoji*
Me: *cheesing emoji*
Me: well I can't promise I'll be your boyfriend, but I'm without a doubt the man of your dreams
Her: Hahahhaha how so?
Me: wouldn't you like to know ;-P
Her: Hahahha, maybe maybe not
Me: maybe we ought to grab coffee sometime then and we can figure it out
Her: Let's do it (;
Her: * you go to [school]?
Me: that I do used to be at [school] but transferred

No answer - attainability too low / she doesn't know how to respond. Perhaps I should have ignored her question and set the date up.

Next day at 1:30

Me: when you dunzo with exams?
Her: (6 hrs later) Now haha
Me: (2 hours later) you lucky lady haha
Me: let's grab coffee Friday around 4~ I'm most free then
Her: Do you have snap?
Me: (20 min later) ya
Her: (instant reply) Add me! [username]
Me: (instant reply) I never use it lemme get your #

Actually, now that I've typed this out... these last texts are actually pretty aggressive.
My logic was that she must know I'm studying (I was) and I sent the last two out on the fly (I did). During the back and forth exchange, maybe she'll reply without much thought / analysis of what's going on.

But, she sees the texts. The texts themselves are verbally demanding and aggressive.


Nonetheless... the pattern and concept is still common enough for discussion.


What are your guys' thoughts? Since so many girls have done this, I feel compelled to come up with some general sense of how to respond.

Obviously, there's no one size fits all to this, but curve balls are still catchable, ya digg?

Hueman

 

[Big Daddy]

I'll get a response of, "Do you have a snapchat / ig? " or "Add me on snapchat! [username]" or "What's your last name?"

I do get these from time to time, specially if girl is suspicious that I might be a weirdo, but I don't give much attention. I always reply,

1.) "I just deleted it got bad grades so I had to focus on this term/had projects on work/my boss offered a new position so I'm only texting now," because I don't have any social media. The thing is, I frame it in a way that it doesn't look that I'm a weirdo, because it doesn't matter how badass you are, if you are 18-30 y/o and doesn't have SM... you're just a fucking weirdo.

Being fair, having awesome SM will land you more girls than not having it. I actually lost a handful of girls that were afraid to go out with me, even after giving my middle name as if it was my last name because I didn't seem trustworthy (I mean, I can 100% understand, if I was a girl I wouldn't either).

2.) "I just deleted my social media, got bad grades " see above. I used to ask for the number as if it was a "required" step after she agreed to go on a date ("if we're going on a date, we should as well exchange numbers!") but it's not the best approach imo.

I've got numbers consistently by chatting a little bit, then suggest we simply continue the chat over text/WhatsApp, no dates yet. I generally use a hook, like asking whether she has pics of travel, a drawing, something in a background of a pic or I'll do it myself, suggesting we should exchange numbers to trade pics or simply to continue chatting.

If she suggests something else, I state that I only have my number.

3.) "[middle name]" I give them my middle name so they can't find shit about me. If they're on the fence, I even encourage them to do it, knowing of course they won't find shit "my last name is [middle name], you can check me out and see that I'm not a weirdo."

Actually, now that I've typed this out... these last texts are actually pretty aggressive.

Actually I didn't feel it was aggressive at all. I thought it was going ok until the second half. You left her in a pretty odd spot, few girls will ask you "so what's your number" "when are you free" i.e. move things forward. At that point you should've asked for the number.

And then on the second half you just plain simply steamroll your schedule into her. "When are you free this week?" became a favorite of mine, then set up from there. But either way she'd probably ask about snapchat in the end, in which you have two options: absurd social proof with 100k followers on snapchat (higher close rate) or saying that you don't have it (lower close rate).

Now this is just a thought, as I don't have any of this shit, but can't you just ask her out on snapchat? I mean it's the same as having a number. I like the number because it's a way of getting investment of them, but if you can get them to invest via social media that's fair game imo.

 

[Inbocca]

Haven't seen this on Tinder as much - I usually ask for their number pretty quick, which lends to a lower close rate but higher meet rate. But I have had this happen on Bumble a couple times. Last girl asked for my IG, which she promptly followed (and still is, despite not sleeping with her).

While having followers on social media isn't as important for guys as it is for girls, it doesn't hurt to have a bunch of girls on snapchat. Like BD said, it's basically like having their phone number, and I see a lot of girls getting more snaps than texts from guys nowadays. Better if they're on the fence about you and might meet up with you in the future, like if you go to the same kinds of parties and such, or if they want to check you out a bit more in detail. That's why it pays to actually have a cool lifestyle you can show off, which from what you've written it sounds like you do. I wouldn't sweat it too much

 

[Hue]

Big Daddy,

The thing is, I frame it in a way that it doesn't look that I'm a weirdo, because it doesn't matter how badass you are, if you are 18-30 y/o and doesn't have SM... you're just a fucking weirdo.

Being fair, having awesome SM will land you more girls than not having it. I actually lost a handful of girls that were afraid to go out with me, even after giving my middle name as if it was my last name because I didn't seem trustworthy (I mean, I can 100% understand, if I was a girl I wouldn't either).

Personally, I dislike social media in general. I think it's a "HEY LOOK AT ME!!!" contest. While I'll admit to occasionally getting external validation, the constant bombardment of it annoys me. Likes = ego fuel. I occasionally dabble in [insert SM here}, but honestly don't even regularly look at shit on there.

Then again, it's expected and allows you to maintain relevancy in social circle, so it's necessary.

One of my HS buddies (crazy good fundamentals but can't close for his life) has like 200,000 snapchat "points" or whatever, girls are MAD into it. He's a snapchat pro as far as building attraction goes.


Yea I mean, with giving your information out nowadays and what it can lead to, I understand the skepticism.

I used to ask for the number as if it was a "required" step after she agreed to go on a date ("if we're going on a date, we should as well exchange numbers!") but it's not the best approach imo.

This makes great sense - I've been treating the number snag as such.

I've got numbers consistently by chatting a little bit, then suggest we simply continue the chat over text/WhatsApp, no dates yet. I generally use a hook, like asking whether she has pics of travel, a drawing, something in a background of a pic or I'll do it myself, suggesting we should exchange numbers to trade pics or simply to continue chatting.

Plausible deniability! God damn. I keep seeing this as a major sticking point for me. I know that's usually a concept connected to pulling a girl home, but if it's a dynamic in their psyche.. it applies elsewhere.

Aaand that can plant the seed to nudes, over number or snapchat. I've only done that once on Tinder.. maybe time to rev the engine (; lol.

I thought it was going ok until the second half. You left her in a pretty odd spot

"That I do blah blah" is what I think you're referring to.

That was a probably a better time to drop the whole "I'm the man of your dreams" shit and either make normal convo for a text or two / get her number.

Matter fact, "what's your number?" right there may have assumed in her mind, 'I'd like to keep this up. We can talk about what school I'm at later'.

And then on the second half you just plain simply steamroll your schedule into her.

Ah fuck you're right.

Now this is just a thought, as I don't have any of this shit, but can't you just ask her out on snapchat? I mean it's the same as having a number. I like the number because it's a way of getting investment of them, but if you can get them to invest via social media that's fair game imo.

From what I've seen, it generally puts you into a different "game-territory". I'm shit at snapchat game. My friend (photographer) I mentioned earlier is crazy good.
I've watched bitches check who viewed their story, even though their connected with like 1000+ people on the thing. Again, likes / views = ego fuel.

I would muuch rather get her number, ping her, then call her as opposed to this filtered bullshit we have to deal with in our generation. Call me oldschool lol.

In one sense I guess it's just another red pill to swallow to keep the fuck up.


It is investment though, which never hurts.


Inbocca,

But I have had this happen on Bumble a couple times

How is Bumble? There was a huge advertisement surge through my campus to download it. Still haven't, but the concept sounds nice.

Like BD said, it's basically like having their phone number, and I see a lot of girls getting more snaps than texts from guys nowadays.

Maybe I'm speculating too much on this, but I feel like most those guys are orbiters. You've seen girls open up their snap right? There's like 20 contacts all with emojis of their "snap-relationships" and whatnot.

Guys get a streak going, and they think it means something. When this first started happening I would add these chicks and the very first snap they'd send me was "Streeeaaks" or some shit when I hadn't even snapped them.

Better if they're on the fence about you and might meet up with you in the future, like if you go to the same kinds of parties and such, or if they want to check you out a bit more in detail. That's why it pays to actually have a cool lifestyle you can show off, which from what you've written it sounds like you do. I wouldn't sweat it too much

I feel it. I just don't snap chat much. EDIT: God damn lol. The more I look at this.. I'm more or less just a hater when it comes to snapchat.

You're right though, there's definitely circumstances (probably fitting #2 and #3) where getting some more investment won't hurt. If these girls weren't on the fence, they'd just comply. And like anything if a girls on the fence-->investment is key.

Lol thanks I do alright ;-* but going out a bunch isn't that out of the ordinary with some scenes here. Most times I look back and think, that was pretty dope, are if I did something I'd never done before / rarely experience. Which usually involves ditching my friends and making friends with strangers for the night.


Going forward...

1). Don't get it twisted with Social Media. It's too relevant nowadays to ignore in online communities, and will end up helping you if you get good at it.

2). Read the situation as to why she might not be as compliant as you'd like, recognize when and how to build investment. (ie. all lights green --> set up the date, yellow light --> invest with # or social media, especially if she offers it).

3). Use Plausible Deniability when moving forward. (ie. it's just to send some pictures / it's just adding him on snapchat)

4). If you've got it, flaunt it. If everyone's entered the flex zone, better flex.


Thanks for the insight guys - especially the detailed response BG.

Anyone feel free to build / bring light to any of this, be it SM in general or this phenomenon.


Hueman

 

[lostnumber]

So, Tinder is my jam. I've probably been on 50+ Tinder dates and slept with a dozen women, most of which have ended up being ongoing concerns that lasted a few months

For the example you posted here it sounds like you already know exactly what you did wrong. She agreed to go on a date, why are you making more conversation at this point? You had the ball right over the plate and didnt swing.

Because she asked you something so simple I would answer it and simply combine that with the close.
"Yeah I used to go to school blah blah blah. What's your number? I'll text you and we can coordinate details"

 

[lostnumber]

Also I would completely dismiss the idea of Instachat, Snapagram, whose app, or whatever else the kids are using these days as being helpful for seduction.

If you like those things for their own merits that is fine, but I've yet to meet a guy who is getting mad laid because of his amazing Snapchat skills. I'll tell you what does get you laid; meeting up with girls in person and then taking them home with you. At best moving from tinder to a different app is adding an unecessary step. More often its going to sidetrack your interaction and decrease the chances the two of you get together

 

[Hue]

lostnumber,

[So, Tinder is my jam. I've probably been on 50+ Tinder dates and slept with a dozen women, most of which have ended up being ongoing concerns that lasted a few months

Not a bad ratio atall man, solid.

You had the ball right over the plate and didnt swing.

Parsimony. Good point.

If you like those things for their own merits that is fine, but I've yet to meet a guy who is getting mad laid because of his amazing Snapchat skills. I'll tell you what does get you laid; meeting up with girls in person and then taking them home with you.

Haha yea I'm not saying like, "swallow the technology red pill!!", rather that it's a powerful tool with how common and wide spread it is. It can be great for preselection, making girls chase, and getting them aroused before you're even there.

The guy I mentioned has very good skills at attracting girls, but not pulling them. Although, he's laid a number of pretty high value chicks from his "snap-seduction". That shit is in addition to hos great fundamentals, not solely his game.

Important to note, though.

Hueman

 

[lostnumber]

Until an advanced guy who is having great success comes by and posts about how snapchat is really helping him up his notch count and gives concrete examples, I'm going to stick to my guns and say social media apps are at best useless for picking up girls and at worst counterproductive.

Its important not to confuse correlation with causation. Your super attractive friend with great fundamentals and a great lifestyle is going to have above average results no matter what process he uses because he is unusually attractive. A good process is one that an average guy can use to get above average results

Just food for thought.

And again, I'm not saying dont use those apps if you enjoy them. But I personally think you are really shooting yourself in the foot if you are trying to involve them in your game, ESPECIALLY when it relates to Tinder.

 

[Inbocca]

How is Bumble? There was a huge advertisement surge through my campus to download it. Still haven't, but the concept sounds nice.

I'm wary of pro-feminist atmospheres but a buddy of mine recommended it so I gave it a shot. In spite of the fact that they're usually bad at it (most of the openers I've gotten are "hey" or some meaningless conversation starter where I've got little to work with - must be how girls on Tinder feel), the women seem more comfortable when they're opening, and it's easy to build a connection when they see you're not some creep who's going to spam dick pics. That being said, you've still got to lead the conversation and it's not as easy when the ball is in your court less. I've gotten about a dozen matches, half turned into conversations, only one led to a date. That date did not end in sex or a repeat, which was my fault. The girl was pretty cool but very liberal - which I feel is the demographic Bumble appeals to. It seems interesting in concept but I think Tinder has it outmatched in terms of effectiveness for hookups.

Maybe I'm speculating too much on this, but I feel like most those guys are orbiters. You've seen girls open up their snap right? There's like 20 contacts all with emojis of their "snap-relationships" and whatnot.

Guys get a streak going, and they think it means something. When this first started happening I would add these chicks and the very first snap they'd send me was "Streeeaaks" or some shit when I hadn't even snapped them.

You're totally right. I feel like it's more in the realm of safety for women. If they like the guy, they can snap him back and forth and meet up, if they decide to cool on him then he'll usually keep validating her through views. It also has the added bonus of not being her number she's giving out. At the same time, it gives a guy a direct communication link to something she's bound to check (much like texting), with the added advantage that she can't see what you sent without you knowing she saw it.

I'd say it's a half-win; not as good as a number (which shows no ambiguity on her interest), but better than nothing. If your game is solid you can use it the same way you use texting, and if you need to back off you can cut the orbiter status by simply not viewing her stories. It's not like IG where the validation comes from you being connected.

Side note: some girls are way more comfortable sending nudes knowing the picture will disappear in a few seconds and being able to tell if you've saved it. The downside is... you can't save it without her knowledge.

I feel it. I just don't snap chat much. EDIT: God damn lol. The more I look at this.. I'm more or less just a hater when it comes to snapchat.

You're right though, there's definitely circumstances (probably fitting #2 and #3) where getting some more investment won't hurt. If these girls weren't on the fence, they'd just comply. And like anything if a girls on the fence-->investment is key.

Lol thanks I do alright ;-* but going out a bunch isn't that out of the ordinary with some scenes here. Most times I look back and think, that was pretty dope, are if I did something I'd never done before / rarely experience. Which usually involves ditching my friends and making friends with strangers for the night.

Same. Just grabbed a girl's snap last weekend and she was astonished that I had to sign in. "You're not always signed in?" she said. I replied, "Nah, I'm not really attached to this thing" and gestured at my phone. She hasn't added me back, so she was probably orbiter hunting. No views for her. Maybe I'll ping her some time if there's a party going on.

It's the changing of the times, man. I definitely admire the older gents not trying to get on board with all the new technology thinking it's critical for game, but not being in touch with your target demographic is going to hurt your chances. Like BD said, if you're a younger dude with zero social media presence it just looks weird. In person is still key though.

Cheers,
Inbocca

 

[Big Daddy]

@ Hueman

Personally, I dislike social media in general. I think it's a "HEY LOOK AT ME!!!" contest. While I'll admit to occasionally getting external validation, the constant bombardment of it annoys me. Likes = ego fuel. I occasionally dabble in [insert SM here}, but honestly don't even regularly look at shit on there.

Well, you may be right, but I wouldn't have a Facebook account to actually post there, so what other people do that would be fairly irrelevant to me as I wouldn't ever see their profile, most likely. There are plenty of apps that you use to get rid of your feed, or only see the posts of the 10 girls you are gaming there, and even scheduling all of your posts.

If you guys ever worked with an automated sales CRM where the software automatically drives leads down a sales funnel and qualify them while you do minimal work, it's the exact same thing.

@ lostnumber

I think you are being too dogmatic. It makes sense that a chunk of the members here don't have SM because Chase himself doesn't use it, but Franco and Hector have SM, for example.

Here is your "advanced" guy who advocates SM as just one more medium to talk to girls -- and he probably has a counterproductive over-the-topish Instagram account if his purpose was to fuck women. Guys at Natural Lifestyles who gets a good rep around here also see no problem with SM and even do profile reviews.

I think the people that dismiss social media as being too much effort never really approached it systematically the same way they approach seducing women. You can figure out what works in your in SM and feed it in a little as 1h/week, probably the same time the average human spends taking a dump (hell, you can even do it while taking a dump!). You can pretty much schedule everything in a Sunday.

Another benefit is this: you have an "in" with other popular girls. If you have 50K followers and message a model who has 11K followers, don't you think there's a good enough chance she'll reply? That girl would probably be unattainable to you unless you happened to see her in the streets in a good day. Or better still, if you message all of your female followers, do you think that at least 1% would eventually go out with you?

Now, am I saying this is the fastest method to getting girls? If you don't double-down and figure out what works for you, probably not*. The same can be said to lifting, getting super high social status or getting super rich... we know getting good at "game" is the fastest route, but that doesn't mean that if you don't put in the effort you won't get results out of any of the above.

[*]: unless you do lots of online game. This is probably the fundamental, if you wanna call it that way, that will yield the most results for you.

Your super attractive friend with great fundamentals and a great lifestyle is going to have above average results no matter what process he uses because he is unusually attractive. A good process is one that an average guy can use to get above average results.

I can understand if such advice was given for a very broad public, in which the reader would very likely be looking for a 5-minute fix, such as the audience of this website.

Given that we are not that demographic, I politely disagree with that statement. Actually, is not that I disagree, but rather that I'm looking for a great process instead of a good one. You pretty much can put in the required work to become that super attractive guy with great fundamentals and a great lifestyle, though not more than 1% of the men will take action of this advice. And I'd rather work my way up there than use the average guy quick fix.

Does that make it poor advice? Hmm, I don't think so.

EDIT:

P.S. I said all the above while having zero SM. I do recognize its value, though. I just wanted to bring to light the other side of the coin; it definitively has a very palpable upside.

P.P.S. I really don't know shit about snapchat, so I don't know if the same applies. I had more Instagram in mind when writing the above. Or even YouTube.

 

[lostnumber]

I'm not trying to say SM is the devil, so I apologize if I am coming off that way. Its true that I am a grumpy old man (27 years of age) who hates most technology and is generally 10 years behind current trends. Most of my friends use IG and Snapchat and seem to enjoy it.

Can social media be a part of a positive healthy lifestyle which is attractive to women?
Can a high value man who is good at pickup be active on social media?
If you live a California lifestyle and are always going to parties, can an active social media help you stay in touch with a wide social network thereby increasing your chances to meet women?
Absolutely. And if thats what you are using it for I would tell you to keep on keeping on

My issue is when people post about SM like its some type of pickup tool, or that somehow adding a girl on snapchat is the equivalent of getting her number, or even "half of her number" as was posted earlier in this thread. That simply isn't true, and I don't want any new guys reading this thread to be confused by what I believe to be poor advice. If you are using dating apps and adding girls on social media instead of getting numbers and scheduling dates I firmly believe you are doing things wrong and sabotaging your results.

@Bigdaddy

You say you want a great process and I agree that is what all men should strive for. I believe I have a great process for online dating. I won't try to tell you that it is the only system that works, but I can empirically prove that it does. I just opened my Tinder and in the last 4 months I've sent messages to 15 girls, gotten 5 dates, and taken 4 of them as lovers. (And if those numbers seem low bear in mind that I generally stop looking for women once I am actively seeing two people, so that is probably from ~3-4 weeks of actual consistent Tinder use)

Now, if someone can tell me "I messaged 20 girls on Tinder, added 10 of them on snapchat, and then had sex with all of them without getting any numbers" my ears will perk up and I will start taking notes. If there are guys on the forum with real concrete examples of how adding girls on Snapchat or Instagram is getting them consistent sex that they wouldn't be getting otherwise I am absolutely open to listening, but I am skeptical that such men exist.

Ultimately, as with most things, if you are having great success doing something than I would recommend you continue doing it. If you are getting mad laid off your sweet Instagram posts then don't listen to me! Results are the important thing. But if you are new or intermediate at online dating and are wondering if trying to take your Tinder conversation to a different social app is a productive move my answer is NO

 

[Hue]

lostnumber,

My issue is when people post about SM like its some type of pickup tool, or that somehow adding a girl on snapchat is the equivalent of getting her number, or even "half of her number" as was posted earlier in this thread.

If you are using dating apps and adding girls on social media instead of getting numbers and scheduling dates I firmly believe you are doing things wrong and sabotaging your results.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that, and my b if using my friend as an example (he is definitely an outlier) pushed this sort of dogma.

What I believe we're concluding is that being adaptive is important. If you don't even need her number, don't get it. If you don't need her snapchat, don't get it. It's key to read the situation and respond accordingly.

IF a bitch won't comply with arranging a date / giving you her number, using SM is just a smaller form of investment. This is one of the ways SM can be a tool. Investment typically builds after initially happening. It's called Foot-in-the-door persuasion.

But if you are new or intermediate at online dating and are wondering if trying to take your Tinder conversation to a different social app is a productive move my answer is NO

Word. And this is definitely a field you play in a lot. I do wonder how much the age differences come into play with the impact SM might have, but that's impossible for me to accurately say.

Then again Seppuku is a middle-aged man, and I think has posted about getting down in a girls DM and turning that into lays, after pimping out his IG. That was months ago so my memory might be a little blurred.



Might the issue of her not complying not have shit to do with SM? Totally. In my case with the girl here, absolutely.
It's still good to know how deal with shit like this, when it happens.

Anyways, it's certainly good to see different perspectives on this. What works for some people might never for others, even in specializations/skill sets like tinder-game / day game / etc..

Hueman

 

[Regal Tiger]

@BigDaddy and @lostnumber

I think the reason that lostnumber is so against SM in general is because he's mostly online dating. As someone else who got their start in online dating and has had that become their bread and butter I have to agree. When it comes to Tinder/Bumble/OKC or whatever Social Media is very unproductive. Go for the number, get the date and then add them to social media after they're already a part of your life.

Until I've been on a date with a girl I make it a point to not send out friend requests or anything. I've experimented with using FB as another tool and I see a drop in results. Sure it can work sometimes and if you really nail down a process to making it work then I assume it can help you a great deal.

But! You have to create that process to begin with and that just sounds like more work when you can get the same results just by Tinder and then Number.


Now, if we're talking cold approach I can't say too much about that. If you have a ton of Instagram followers or a bazillion hot female friends commenting on your stuff on Facebook then I can see the reasoning behind it, but I personally have no experience.


I'm in the process of building my Instagram account so I plan on trying to use it once I've gotten it to my minimum I want it at. However, that's probably a solid ways away and by then I might not have the interest anymore.


Also; girls are much more likely to send nudes through Snapchat. Just don't trade in a second phone, save an email app on it and then take a video whenever you open it. Same for Instagram's DM's, use your second phone to your advantage. Then send the images to your own email, save them to your laptop and never show anyone ever. Revisit them as needed.


Conclusion: as a mostly online guy I don't see Social Media being too helpful unless you've got a real following. If you've got a real following then I'm assuming the rules change but don't have any experience with it so can't advise. I'm going to assume that it's the same with cold approach and even social circle. If you've got the following might as well see what happens and track the results. But if you don't have the following then don't bother.

The only caveat I see to this is WhatsApp or Kik or something similar where it's mostly messaging only: some girls don't have cell service but use their phones on the internet, and some are cheating/have strict parents and don't want you in their address book. But if this is the case then they will already have a messaging only app ready. If they give you this excuse but try to add you to social media I would personally assume that it's attention whoring and wouldn't emotionally invest in the girl at all. Sure I'd still send a message every once in a while but this falls under the 2% rule in my book as I've not had tons of experience with this phenomenon. The experience I have had is that messaging only apps are okay but not ideal and SM is a step backwards. Is it because I've not pimped out my Facebook or Snapchat? Maybe, but I don't really want to.

Now if a girl that I wasn't super into wanted to trade Instagrams? I would give it a shot to see what would happen but wouldn't expect much at this point in time.

 

[lostnumber]

Regal Tiger is exactly right regarding the online dating thing.

Another thing to consider is that if you are adding girls on SM you now have another thing you have to actively curate and work at.

If you've been a high value man your whole life and are constantly doing high value stuff than this may not be a problem, but I'll tell you right now that my Facebook is lame.

I have stupid posts from 10 years ago when I was depressed, awkward pictures of me. Screenshots from videogames I play. Its not really something I would WANT to share with all of the women in my life.

For people that honestly enjoy IG and that type of thing I can see how being connected to a bunch of babes would be a fun part of the lifestyle, but for me it would be a chore.

 

[Big Daddy]

@ RT and lostnumber

Ok, I just realized something. I think the thing here is context.

If gaming on big cities I wouldn't bother too. I lived on pretty big cities and yeah it's unnecessary (with a caveat, explained below). I can only advocate SM here if you have a killer IG and want to play the "baller and just passing by" vibe or if you happen to match with a high status girl that you can recognize even over Tinder (model, famous-y, etc).

If you don't have awesome SM it's better to play the "mysterious" card than the "I'm not impressed" one -- and even then I'd probably only save it to the "hard" girls.

But I was subconsciously thinking of my small-to-mid-sized college/hometown where social circle and popularity is palpable. And lately I've been trying to crack into high status girls.

Now, I have a very lame social circle in terms of access to the cool kids so it's hard to find these girls just walking around if you don't know the right places and people. But I found a short-term fix: some of these girls actually use Tinder and I ended up developing a very good eye for it.

I surprisingly matched with a couple of them and here's what happened in one case, the longest time ago:

• Matched with girl, she's surprised we don't have ANY friends in common showing on Tinder; she asks me where I go to school, where I went in HS, etc
• Eventually I get her number and change over to text and she asks if I have Instagram a couple of times and get her barriers up when she finds I don't; I checked her acc and she obviously had thousands of followers
• At the time I didn't have awesome pictures, which would communicate some social stature. I feel like she thinks I'm a weirdo without anything to "prove" that I'm not.
• I want to go out, she asks if I'm coming to some party on the weekend. I have doubts in my ability to seduce her in "hostile" terrain and propose a coffee instead. She accepts and one day later blocks my number and unmatches me on Tinder.

(Today I'd probably have gone to that party. In fact, I'm doing that this weekend... violating GC rules but it's kinda fun to more uncomfortable shit once you get your groove.)

I had a few others but they're variations of the above; now I have pretty cool pictures that give me way more wiggle room to play a "baller and just passing by" vibe coupled with better texting form, but I still find the same resistance when they find I don't have SM or any other trait than relatively good pics.

For the high status girls, matching me on Tinder, or even giving me her number, does not imply enough intent to go out with me just yet. She needs more. I think the same is true for high status girls even in in big cities... wealthy, aristocrats, Instagram models, well connected party girl, D-list and up personalities, etc which is rarer to find, esp if you're not looking for it.

EDIT: and while we're at it, check this video out for additional context and cool Tinder ideas: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COIjJxPCb9k

 

[Regal Tiger]

@ RT and lostnumber

Ok, I just realized something. I think the thing here is context.

If gaming on big cities I wouldn't bother too. I lived on pretty big cities and yeah it's unnecessary (with a caveat, explained below). I can only advocate SM here if you have a killer IG and want to play the "baller and just passing by" vibe or if you happen to match with a high status girl that you can recognize even over Tinder (model, famous-y, etc).

Incorrect. I got started in a college town of around 150-200K people and that's where I learned (using cell phone pics!) A year ago I moved to Nashville (approaching 1M people) and because of life circumstances haven't been able to use online dating for nearly all of 2017.

If you don't have awesome SM it's better to play the "mysterious" card than the "I'm not impressed" one -- and even then I'd probably only save it to the "hard" girls.

We'd have to get our definitions straight before I can really comment on 'hard girls'. Because hard girls to me means ballbusters that are being insulting. I don't deal with them, too much effort. If they can't be sweet over an app then I don't want to meet them in person.

So I'd need a reply on what a 'hard girl' means to you, because that's what they mean to me.

• Matched with girl, she's surprised we don't have ANY friends in common showing on Tinder; she asks me where I go to school, where I went in HS, etc
• Eventually I get her number and change over to text and she asks if I have Instagram a couple of times and get her barriers up when she finds I don't; I checked her acc and she obviously had thousands of followers
• At the time I didn't have awesome pictures, which would communicate some social stature. I feel like she thinks I'm a weirdo without anything to "prove" that I'm not.
• I want to go out, she asks if I'm coming to some party on the weekend. I have doubts in my ability to seduce her in "hostile" terrain and propose a coffee instead. She accepts and one day later blocks my number and unmatches me on Tinder.

Just from reading this part it sounds like she wanted to use you as an orbiter. Which means that unless you have god level game then it wasn't going to happen. I could be wrong since I wasn't there though but that's what it sounds like to me.

Why do I feel this way?
Sounds like she went into question mode right away (OR you're taking too long to get the date, I advise around 5-6 sent messages to start working on logistics for a date or go into your process for asking for a date). If she's asking a bunch of questions and controlling the conversation that means she probably has an agenda. Or again, you took too long to ask the date and she took over for whatever reason.

But those are my thoughts that come from my experiences. Others may differ.

For the high status girls, matching me on Tinder, or even giving me her number, does not imply enough intent to go out with me just yet. She needs more. I think the same is true for high status girls even in in big cities... wealthy, aristocrats, Instagram models, well connected party girl, D-list and up personalities, etc which is rarer to find, esp if you're not looking for it.

That's true of all women on/off Tinder though. That's why I always try to go after the date before getting the number. Lostnumber had a slight tweak to my process that I think would work well.


EDIT: go to this thread for some looks at my own process as well as some excellent examples by lostnumber:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17131

 

[Regal Tiger]

EDIT: and while we're at it, check this video out for additional context and cool Tinder ideas: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COIjJxPCb9k

Making notes as I go along with the video:

Use a closeup shot as your first picture = depends. I say tweak this based on the pictures that you're using. Back when I was still learning I used a full body picture where you couldn't see my face as well and it performed best as my first pic. Followed by a smiling portrait pic. When I used portrait pic first it flopped.

Definitely agree with the not using sunglasses though. Hats are something that you can use but I wouldn't recommend more than one and preferably it's about function over style. So you're in the mountains = makes sense that you'd have a warm hat on and etc. But make sure the girl can see your head in most of your pictures.

He talks about activities = Yaaaaaasssss! Lifestyle action shots

He mentions using all of the available space in your Tinder profile = I say it depends. Do you have 5-6 AMAZING pics of you? Use them. If you don't? Then don't. You're only as hot as your worst picture.

NO SELFIES. Just no. I completely agree with him here. Don't do it.

Him talking about the high value picture stuff= agree. You want it to look natural and by accident. Which also goes along with what Chase talks about in Law of Least Effort. Which also ties into activity pictures: don't get a picture of you posing with a basketball, get a picture of you playing basketball. And etc.

Though I do disagree with having women in your profile that looks like you could be dating. So anything posing, anything with her kissing you or hugging you I'd say don't do. The exceptions here I would say are if you're doing an activity or there's a bunch of other people around. So lots of hot girls in a group photo - good (as long as it's your only group photo and it's NOT NEAR the front). Or another example; I ballroom dance and would sometimes use a picture of a hot girl and I dancing.

High quality picture = definitely best. I didn't get my camera until after I'd already moved to Nashville. I started using more pose-y pictures over my adventure cell phone pictures. They were about the same in results that I got. So what that tells me at least is that pictures of you doing stuff are about as equal to not as good photos of me with my entry level dslr (it's hard as fuck to take pictures of yourself lol). The adventure pictures you could clearly see me (iPhone pics) so it wasn't like they were trash, but they weren't crisp and clear and not terribly great. So if you can get a friend with a dslr to take photos of you (or just bite the bullet and pay for a photographer) then that'd be the best of both.

Totally agree with his profile description stuff. I'd use two paragraphs for a grand total of about 4 sentences max. Probably about the total size of this entire paragraph was on my Tinder description.

Though I can't say anything about using emoji's in your description. Never tried it. Also never tried his 'Shit Test Provocation' so I can't say anything there. Since he's communicating such high value in his pictures I can imagine it's funny for him but might not be for the average dude. Personal thoughts without any experience though on that part.

About adding your Instagram account = I'm sticking with my advice from above: don't do it. If you have an amazeballs IG then experiment with it and report back. But unless you're already going for it then it's just another thing you have to worry about.

Swiping right all the time = agree. Be a little picky.

Overall a good video.

 

[Big Daddy]

I got started in a college town of around 150-200K people

What ages are you targeting? The girls I'm talking about are probably younger than the ones you are, and they specifically popular girls... I fucked random girls in hours off Tinder but popular girls can fuck literary any random guy they want at will, especially from Tinder.

You gotta have more going for you if you want to get her... that can be good pics, wit, good text game, but point here is that awesome SM helps too.

So I'd need a reply on what a 'hard girl' means to you,

High status/popular girls who have a plethora of options and thus can afford to be more picky and bitchy because of it (this acts like a test mechanism, so I'm cool with it). I'm not referring to girls who are bitchy for no particular reason other than an annoying personality. I don't invest time in those too.

Just from reading this part it sounds like she wanted to use you as an orbiter.

Yeah since the unmatched me I don't have the original convo. Like I said I got some reps with this kind of girl and even looking back I don't think she was trying to use me as an orbiter. I have other examples who did. I just didn't want to make it super long. Here's the whole thing, to the best of my memory:

• We match
  - I greet her, make a particular comment about an upcoming music festival which I've been to and she wanted to go
  - She plays along, eventually asks "are you from here?"
  - Yup haha
  - And we don't have any friends in common?! How is it possible? Haha [like I said, I have no friends on Facebook. But if I did have my real life friends in my account we'd have a few friends in common so I understand why that is weird]
  - I say it's because I removed my friends from Facebook, but I go to [school]. It turns out we went to the same HS even though I was 3 years older so we probably never met there.
  - Tease her about festival, talk about music, get number
  
  Move to text
  - I make some stupid cringe joke about her number trying to make a us vs the world frame going, but I don't even like to remember it
  - We engage more into festival talk, I sent her a picture of my tickets because I had said I would
  - She plays along and asks if I have IG, I say I don't
  - I ask when she's free to go out, she says she studies and work so only on weekends, so I propose next weekend
  - She says she's going to a party/festival on that weekend and asks if I'm coming too. I (kinda knew which one but) ask which festival. She says jokingly that she'd tag me on the picture if I had Instagram, but send me the poster via text instead
  - I try to talk my way out of it and inviting for coffee instead and everything that I described and two days later I realize she unmatched me and blocked my number

EDIT: go to this thread for some looks at my own process as well as some excellent examples by lostnumber:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17131

Yeah I've seen that thread. I added some stuff to my process and his text style is a good match for me. I'm just saying that in some cases, even in online dating apps, SM can probably tip you over the "going out" side.

 

[Regal Tiger]

What ages are you targeting? The girls I'm talking about are probably younger than the ones you are, and they specifically popular girls... I fucked random girls in hours off Tinder but popular girls can fuck literary any random guy they want at will, especially from Tinder.

21-27

You gotta have more going for you if you want to get her... that can be good pics, wit, good text game, but point here is that awesome SM helps too.

It can, but what I'm saying is that it's not required for most cases. Though it sounds like you're going for a very specific type of gal that is very active socially.

High status/popular girls who have a plethora of options and thus can afford to be more picky and bitchy because of it (this acts like a test mechanism, so I'm cool with it). I'm not referring to girls who are bitchy for no particular reason other than an annoying personality. I don't invest time in those too.

High status/popular in what way though? (high status in the club world, high status in the business world, high status in literature world and etc.) I'm assuming you mean girls that party in which case I have no experience with them. I don't party I'm afraid lol. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

My favorite types of women are the Independent ones that usually aren't going to be high status because they don't care enough. Though I have dated women that were high status in different worlds that I wasn't at all involved in. I was able to leverage what I was high status in to get them though (like ballroom dancing, I used to teach and most women are at least interested in learning for example). Another example is that I'm getting a lot better at photography and am working on my Instagram game so I will have a lot more leverage when I get back to online dating.

So it really depends on what world these women are high status in. Because (and again I'm only assuming here) if you're going after women that are considered high status in clubs/bars/party atmosphere then it would help you more to get some status in those worlds or be associated with people that are, not on Instagram.

If you're wanting to go after Insta-Celebs/Models then just getting a high following on Instagram would help because it would put you on/above their level in that same world that they care about.

Chase has an article about this kinda thing when it comes to blonde bombshells: https://www.girlschase.com/content/how-h ... bombshells

Just apply it instead of blonde bombshells to your type of women and what world they inhabit.

Does that make sense?

Yeah since the unmatched me I don't have the original convo. Like I said I got some reps with this kind of girl and even looking back I don't think she was trying to use me as an orbiter. I have other examples who did. I just didn't want to make it super long. Here's the whole thing, to the best of my memory:

• We match
  - I greet her, make a particular comment about an upcoming music festival which I've been to and she wanted to go
  - She plays along, eventually asks "are you from here?"
  - Yup haha
  - And we don't have any friends in common?! How is it possible? Haha [like I said, I have no friends on Facebook. But if I did have my real life friends in my account we'd have a few friends in common so I understand why that is weird]
  - I say it's because I removed my friends from Facebook, but I go to [school]. It turns out we went to the same HS even though I was 3 years older so we probably never met there.
  - Tease her about festival, talk about music, get number

• 
  
  Should have went for the date here. I find it helps tremendously to go for the date before the number. I think even Chase has an article somewhere about how the number is just a by-product of the date.
  
  Also, you let her control the flow of the conversation pretty quickly. When you said 'yup haha' and she followed up with another question she controlled the conversation. Then she teased/shit tested you and in my mind (I will fully admit I consider myself intermediate) you failed.
  
  My advice for online dating for a general conversational flow is this:
  If you're not asking a question; you're teasing. If you're not teasing then you're confirming logistics or going into your ask-her-out process.
  
  But in my opinion, you lost it at the 'yup haha' message.
  
  

  Move to text
  - I make some stupid cringe joke about her number trying to make a us vs the world frame going, but I don't even like to remember it
  - We engage more into festival talk, I sent her a picture of my tickets because I had said I would
  - She plays along and asks if I have IG, I say I don't
  - I ask when she's free to go out, she says she studies and work so only on weekends, so I propose next weekend
  - She says she's going to a party/festival on that weekend and asks if I'm coming too. I (kinda knew which one but) ask which festival. She says jokingly that she'd tag me on the picture if I had Instagram, but send me the poster via text instead
  - I try to talk my way out of it and inviting for coffee instead and everything that I described and two days later I realize she unmatched me and blocked my number

She got you investing based on this whereas she was not. Then she shit tested you again with the tag on Instagram remark.

Those are my opinions/thoughts.

Yeah I've seen that thread. I added some stuff to my process and his text style is a good match for me. I'm just saying that in some cases, even in online dating apps, SM can probably tip you over the "going out" side.

In some cases, absolutely. But it's more of a niche/specialized game in my mind over an all-around type'a thing.

 

[lostnumber]

Big daddy, regarding the transition to text, I would recommend checking out my posts in this thread.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17131

To summarize, I find it is always better to ask for the date BEFORE getting the number. One of the reasons I didn't post in that thead but that applies here is that it also helps screen the numbers you get. I would say that about 90% of the numbers I get off Tinder end up at least scheduling a date with me. Why? Because I've already made my intentions clear, they wouldn't be giving out the number if they weren't at least conceptually interested in meeting up. It makes it very easy and natural to aggressively pursue a meet up as soon as you get the number. After all, thats why you asked for it. It would be more weird NOT to talk logistics

If I say to a girl "hey, I like concerts, you like concerts too! What's your number, we can talk about music festivals" I might get numbers from girls interested in dates, but I also might get numbers from girls that just want to talk about music festivals.

I doubt things were going to anywhere with this girl regardless of what you did, I agree with Regal Tigers assessment that she was just looking for social gratification. But I bet you would have found that out earlier and not wasted your time if you'd closed on Tinder in a more direct way. Does that make sense?