The "Add me on snap!" Phenomenon of Dating Apps

[Big Daddy]

@ RT and lostnumber

Guys, I have a number close rate of 86% with girls that reply back my first message, and that's because I'm considering girls that message me first and I still didn't get back... I think I'm doing OK.

That report with that girl was over two years ago, there were several flaws in my game then, starting with my awful pictures. I used to do it like that in the past but I prefer much more my process right now, it seems much more natural to get number before setting up the date, at least for me. In the spirit of this thread I just tried setting up the date before the number and it just feels awkward. No replies yet, gonna update later.

I think giving number is way less investment than agreeing to go on date and you want to work up her investment in you. Once you get the initial investment of getting the number, I think she's way more likely to go out on a date. But if asking for the date before works for you, that's OK too.

Your texting style has definitively improved my overall texting game, though. I just need some more reps to get it down!

(As a side note, that's why every website explodes popups, GC included, in your face ASAP. It's just more efficient to do it that way and get contact information.)

In some cases, absolutely. But it's more of a niche/specialized game in my mind over an all-around type'a thing.

Yup, absolutely. That's what I meant with "if you're in a big city," for normal girls you definitively don't need it. I'd avoid showing SM if I was a model even in that case unless I felt she wasn't very excited.

 

[Regal Tiger]

Big Daddy,

As long as you're happy with your results then that's all that really matters. But what I've outlined is what I recommend and is what works for me

 

[lostnumber]

@Bigdaddy

I get what you are saying regarding escalating Investment, and I think as a general principle its true. If you meet someone in person I would absolutely agree with you that asking for the number as a first step is a smoother play.

I like it on Tinder for a few reasons though:

-Makes intentions clear without being creepy
- Screens and filters out girls who might be willing to give you a number but not go on a date.
- Keeps things moving fast and moving forward, instead of going sideways like that example you shared (I understand you've greatly improved since then).
- Keeps you in complete control of the interaction

Remember also that you aren't trying to set up the date before getting the number. You are getting her to agree to the IDEA of a date, and then grabbing her number to sort out the details. If you try to coordinate logistics on Tinder I agree that is not effective.

I will admit though, that its possible this technique works better because of my writing style. I tend to have outlandish crazy frames which makes it easy for me to ask in interesting ways. For someone who is a little more plain Jane in their approach it might be more difficult to pull off naturally

Ultimately its results that matter, and if your close rate is that high then it doesn't sound like you are having any issues There is more than one path to victory!

 

[lostnumber]

I was curious, so for the sake of science I looked through my current tinder account, which I've had for about 10 months, to see what my conversion rate for getting a number using this technique was, and its actually 100%.

I'm surprised, I would have thought Id have a few strikeouts mixed in, but apparently thats not the case. There are plenty of girls who never messaged me back, and several conversations that petered out after a few messages, but of times I actually went for a close every single time I got a number. If I count a few from bumble and Coffee Meets Bagel I'm 25 for 25 on numbers

Definitely wouldn't have been the case on my old account before I had my process down and had a better feel for which interactions are going somewhere and which aren't. I think a year or two ago I would have thrown 100 darts at the board hoping to get 26.

Again though, just because it works for me doesn't mean its a perfect fit for others. There are a multitude of techniques that can lead you to the same result, the important thing is to pick the things that work for you

 

[Big Daddy]

Haha I shit you not, I was thinking about this as I drove back home and I anticipated that you might have a higher conversion rate because of what I will right in a moment, but consider this:

Why do successful companies offer non-clients free trials of their service or product before the customer buys something? Because it's very low friction for him, it makes him become more invested in the service or product and now the company has his contact info to persist over time. After the trial is over he is more likely to buy the product.

Now, if the company tried to sell the product first, their conversion rate for "contact info" would be 100%, but they would probably have less customers.

I'm not trying to "convert" you or anything! This thread gave me a fuckton of ideas and I'm glad we discussed it. I'm just saying that we are both probably correct and there are things we can use from both worlds.

Like I said, I just tried your way earlier today but she's yet to respond haha and also, I proposed date before number in a couple of them maybe. I'm not too cemented in a way of doing things.

But generally, it looks like: greet -> few jokes, 3-4 text -> number -> hey save my number -> so where do you live again? (so I know what to propose) -> date

For whatever reason I feel like trying to do it over tinder is counterproductive because not a lot of girls check it. Once I matched with this girl who would take days to reply and once in text she replied my shit in 3 min. But anyways, I'm glad to know I have more wiggle room to test some stuff too!

 

[Regal Tiger]

Haha I shit you not, I was thinking about this as I drove back home and I anticipated that you might have a higher conversion rate because of what I will right in a moment, but consider this:

Why do successful companies offer non-clients free trials of their service or product before the customer buys something? Because it's very low friction for him, it makes him become more invested in the service or product and now the company has his contact info to persist over time. After the trial is over he is more likely to buy the product.

Now, if the company tried to sell the product first, their conversion rate for "contact info" would be 100%, but they would probably have less customers.

I'm not trying to "convert" you or anything! This thread gave me a fuckton of ideas and I'm glad we discussed it. I'm just saying that we are both probably correct and there are things we can use from both worlds.

Like I said, I just tried your way earlier today but she's yet to respond haha and also, I proposed date before number in a couple of them maybe. I'm not too cemented in a way of doing things.

But generally, it looks like: greet -> few jokes, 3-4 text -> number -> hey save my number -> so where do you live again? (so I know what to propose) -> date

For whatever reason I feel like trying to do it over tinder is counterproductive because not a lot of girls check it. Once I matched with this girl who would take days to reply and once in text she replied my shit in 3 min. But anyways, I'm glad to know I have more wiggle room to test some stuff too!

The thing about that though, for me, is this: girls give out their number like people give out candy on Halloween. When I first got started in seduction, women would literally just give me their phone number to get me to go away. Both in real life and in Online Dating.

Sure, if a woman isn't responding quickly enough on Tinder then definitely do something about it. But to me, the number doesn't mean anything. I noticed my flake rate dropped to damn near 0% when I stopped going after the number (still had a few here and there) and just went for the date instead. My number of dates and lays however, stayed about the same.

So I'm getting the same end result, the lay, which is really the only success rate I care about, stay the same. But my flakes from Tinder drop down.

That to me is worth so much more than just about anything.


Though I get where you're coming from with the merchants and stuff, and it has a certain logic to it. But when it comes to dating I don't think that the number is like a free trial. A free trial to me is more like a date. It's 'hey, give this a try, see how it feels and let's take it from there'. To me, texting is texting no matter what app it's coming from.


So that's where I'm coming from. Though I'd love to get more experienced seducers to come in here and give their take on it. I think it'd be interesting to see their experiences.

 

[lostnumber]

@BigDaddy
I dont disagree with anything you are saying really, and I think you are spot on about the psychology of investment. I'd be curious to see the exact Congo where you asked for the date first and haven't gotten a response

This thread has been great for me because its really
made me sit down and think about what I do and why I do it. I know what my process is and that it works but explaining it to other people is making me examine it more closely and develop a deeper understanding of WHY it works

I think part of why I structure the Tinder close the way I do is that it flows so well into the rest of my game, and also gives me such a phenomenal conversion rate. It could be that if your date structures are different or if you want higher volume it is better to get the number first. As long as you aren't trying to set the entire date up on Tinder without getting a number, which I think we can all agree is wrong.

My date close once I have the number looks exactly like this:

Me: (Girls name), hey! Its lostnumber.
Girl: Hi lost number!
(This is essentially a "save my number" text. Confirms that I have the right number, let's the girl know who I am, and makes her invest a little in the conversation. Note that I usually say never send a boring text, but this is an exception. I want this this to be incredibly easy to respond to so she can just fire off a "Hi" back right away)

Me: What's your schedule look like next week?
Girl: Well, I'm pretty busy but I'm definitely free Wednesday
(Because I've already gotten her to agree to a date,
I can go directly into logistics without it being weird. There is no risk of getting sidetracked or friend zoned here)
Me: Wednesday it is! Are you able to make it out to (suburb I live in)? There are a lot of really cool places near me.

(I do NOT ask her anything about her location. Why? Because she might be 30 minutes away and then I'd look like a dick for trying to make her come to me instead of suggesting something in the middle. So I simply ask her to come to me and figure she will say no or suggest somewhere else if its farther then she wants to drive. Part of the reasom this works is that I live in a central metro location and I really do have a lot of cool places nearby. This would be much more difficult to structure if I lived in the boonies)


Girl: Yeah, I can do that! Where should we meet
Me: I live like two blocks from the main strip, why dont you park by me and we can walk somewhere
(This is the only date I go on. Girl comes to me so
I'm getting investment. If the girl flakes its no big deal because I'm hanging at my apartment. The girl is meeting me near my place and seeing me come out the door, which develops some comfort with the location for when I bring her back there later. Most importantly, I am leading her from minute one on the date because she is literally following me as we walk to a place that I've picked out for us)
Girl: OK
Me: What time do you think you'll be free on Wednesday?
Girl: I should be able to meet by 6:30
Me: 6:30 in (suburb I live in) on Wednesday it is! Looking forward to it
Girl: Me too!

I'll add rhetorical flourishes as appropriate, and I'll respond to whatever questions she asks or information gives me, but thats the bare bones of it right there

 

[Big Daddy]

I will get the entire thing later, but here's the skinny update:

Your post on the other thread actually saved me. She didn't reply for 2 days or so (I got the impression that she thought it was "too fast") then I sent something along those lines to diffuse the tension and she went super along.

Then I got number, chatted a little bit... and this is what I mean is probably my biggest problem atm, and something I touched on this thread:

Over text, she asks my last name. Give middle name, as always, asks hers. While we're on it, I ask where she lives. She replies "[city]." No shit captain. Afterwards she tell me her area and asks mine, I reply it and say "yup, we're actually close. Just wanted to make sure (I'm NOT willing to drive more than 15 minutes and I matched with girls 1 hour away for some reason).

She replies "Well, that's what Tinder said" and I say I just wanted to confirm because of aforementioned reason. I propose date and she's like "calm down, boy" which I had encountered in the past. They way they react frame it as if I was desperate/just wanted to fuck, etc... for some reason, some girls are extremely ok meeting the next day, and others give you all kind of shit.

I tried to frame as if she was the weird one as per Chase recommendation, "I'm not asking for you to be my wife, just going out and have a conversation," but I doubt this will get anywhere.

Scanning my head quickly I can't remember an instance where I could get past this resistance if a girl put it up. If she doesn't then I'm OK. Tried more rapport, nothing. Tried extremely boring, safe dates, couldn't get her out. Tried Hail Mary, nothing. I'm 100% confident I will have to ping her in 2-3 days and I have no more ideas to try when this happens.

Have you guys ever run into this?

 

[lostnumber]

I will get the entire thing later, but here's the skinny update:

Your post on the other thread actually saved me. She didn't reply for 2 days or so (I got the impression that she thought it was "too fast") then I sent something along those lines to diffuse the tension and she went super along.

Then I got number, chatted a little bit... and this is what I mean is probably my biggest problem atm, and something I touched on this thread:

Over text, she asks my last name. Give middle name, as always, asks hers. While we're on it, I ask where she lives. She replies "[city]." No shit captain. Afterwards she tell me her area and asks mine, I reply it and say "yup, we're actually close. Just wanted to make sure (I'm NOT willing to drive more than 15 minutes and I matched with girls 1 hour away for some reason).

She replies "Well, that's what Tinder said" and I say I just wanted to confirm because of aforementioned reason. I propose date and she's like "calm down, boy" which I had encountered in the past. They way they react frame it as if I was desperate/just wanted to fuck, etc... for some reason, some girls are extremely ok meeting the next day, and others give you all kind of shit.

Scanning my head quickly I can't remember an instance where I could get past this resistance if a girl put it up. If she doesn't then I'm OK. Tried more rapport, nothing. Tried extremely boring, safe dates, couldn't get her out. Tried Hail Mary, nothing.

Have you guys ever run into this?

Nope, because I always get them to agree to the date before I get the number

 

[Big Daddy]

Yep, but she denied the "date before the number" too. And has happened in cold approach sometimes (though way rarer).

EDIT:

I also have been pondering for a while if the lover frame will lose you some kinds of girls too i.e. a girl is trying to pigeonhole into a bf role, you maintain your frame and she gives in and fucks. But it could also be the case the she feels the lover frame is too strong and drops you.

There is something else at play other than the order in which you get investment here... sooner or later we'll have to deal with it.

 

[lostnumber]

Yep, but she denied the "date before the number" too. And has happened in cold approach sometimes (though way rarer).

EDIT:

I also have been pondering for a while if the lover frame will lose you some kinds of girls too i.e. a girl is trying to pigeonhole into a bf role, you maintain your frame and she gives in and fucks. But it could also be the case the she feels the lover frame is too strong and drops you.

There is something else at play other than the order in which you get investment here... sooner or later we'll have to deal with it.

A girl who is stonewalling you like that is simply a poor prospect in my opinion, I've run into one or two of those "but we just met, we can't go on a date yet!" type of girls and in my experience its always a waste of your time.

When I first started doing the Tinder thing I just wanted DATES at all costs and I was throwing hail marys and trying to get numbers and using platonic frames etc and sometimes I'd get a number, or get a girl to talk to me longer that would have gone cold otherwise, but not once do I look back and say "Man, it was really worth taking it slow and sending lame texts to that girl, because it paid off and got me laid"

In real life if you are very good you might be able to overcome a conservative girls resistance, but online you simply have no leverage. The kind of girl who isn't willing to quickly agree to meet up for a real date once she sees how awesome isn't worth the effort. Either she is truly one of those "take it slow" type of girls, or if she isn't, then you haven't impressed her enough with your value for her to want to commit to a date, and she is going to keep you hanging around while she assesses her other prospects.

If I ask for a date and a girl says "woah slow down" I'm done with that conversation, instantly and irrevocably.

 

[Big Daddy]

A girl who is stonewalling you like that is simply a poor prospect in my opinion, I've run into one or two of those "but we just met, we can't go on a date yet!" type of girls and in my experience its always a waste of your time.

Yeah, I feel the same. I just like to use these to Hail Mary and see if something sticks.

But I will admit, I'm terrified when a girl wants to set up dates asap with me, can't help but think she wants my kidneys or something fucked up, as Regal Tiger knows can happen (I'm glad you're doing good now homie). So I kinda relate.

 

[Regal Tiger]

But I will admit, I'm terrified when a girl wants to set up dates asap with me, can't help but think she wants my kidneys or something fucked up, as Regal Tiger knows can happen (I'm glad you're doing good now homie). So I kinda relate.

Yea, lesson learned = not inviting women straight over to my place anymore lol. And thanks!


Also, to your question earlier about if it ever happens to me: I've never been able to salvage any 'calm down boy' messages. I've been able to turn around a few "I'm not comfortable messages" but that's very different.

The former says to me that she's not attracted to me. The latter just says she's not comfortable enough. The latter's easier to work on.

 

[Hue]

Yo, not a direct replay to the original topic, but I thought I'd throw it in here rather than make a new post.

I saw this guy's process on redpill reddit a while back, who's got a decent success ratio.

After an original intro (much like lostnumber's honestly), some quick banter, and proposing the date, he'd give his number to the girl with a "feel free to text me" or something.

Some strengths I see:

- Low effort
- Devil may care
- Balls in her court

Some weaknesses:

- Might push the ball to far into her court
- If she's still iffy, chances are she won't text (which, could possibly be fixed with a few more messages)


Would love to hear any of your guys' thoughts on this. I'm 1:2 with trying it out, so I can't speak to this much.

 

[lostnumber]

I absolutely hate it. Girls are so flakey and unreliable, do you really want to start things off by putting the ball in her court? That is a move of absolute last resort with a girl that you haven't been able to set something up with, not the opening move.See all the conversations we've had about how to get her to respond to a text when she ignored your first one, how often she'll flake on a date, etc. Now take those problems and multiply them by the fact that half the time you give your number she probably won't text you in the first place

Also, you are getting more investment if she texts you first yes, but you're also giving up lead in the interaction, which is going to create a weaker frame and lead to more bullshit texting and flakiness. I'm not saying it can't work and lead to dates and getting laid. Obviously if she does text you she is interested, but I fail to see a significant upside and see a massive downside

I mean compare these two which I think are very realistic scenarios:

Lost: Lets go on a magical amazing date and discuss our double lives as traveling circus performers
Her: Ok!
Lost: Whats your number?
Her: XXXXX

Lost: *texts* Hi you!
Her: Hi!
Lost: I'm about to go to bed here. What days are you free next week?
Her: XXX Logistics



versus

Lost: Yeah, so anyway, I'm a circus strongman and you are a trapeze artist, we should hang out sometime and discuss life under the big tent
Her: Sure!
Lost: Here is my number xxx Text me sometime

Her texts 3 days later: Hi, how are you?
Lost: Good, just had an awesome day. Whats new and exciting with you?
Her: Cool! I had math class today
Lost: What days are you free to hang out next week?

Do you see how awkward my second conversation is? I'm just jumping in out of nowhere to ask for a date. Sure she already agreed to it a few days ago, but I'm really not in charge of this interaction. To do it smoothly I'd have to exchange more texts and drag the conversation out so I could build a proper frame. Or maybe I could really put my writing cap on and do it in the same amount of messages with something very fresh and interesting, but that's quadruple the work on my part for the same result. And that's assuming she even texts me in the first place!

I experimented with similar things when I first started on Tinder and I can categorically tell you its inferior. Not unworkable, but inferior.

 

[Regal Tiger]

Yo, not a direct replay to the original topic, but I thought I'd throw it in here rather than make a new post.

I saw this guy's process on redpill reddit a while back, who's got a decent success ratio.

After an original intro (much like lostnumber's honestly), some quick banter, and proposing the date, he'd give his number to the girl with a "feel free to text me" or something.

Some strengths I see:

- Low effort
- Devil may care
- Balls in her court

Some weaknesses:

- Might push the ball to far into her court
- If she's still iffy, chances are she won't text (which, could possibly be fixed with a few more messages)


Would love to hear any of your guys' thoughts on this. I'm 1:2 with trying it out, so I can't speak to this much.

Honestly, I did this a lot. But rather than just throwing it out there my process has always been to get the date and then just give my number afterwards with a 'text me'.

But by that point I already have the date and logistics set up so I'm not terribly concerned. Haven't noticed much of a difference between this and asking for the number

 

[Hue]

Damn lost that was quick! I just found it:

I see some posts about things that worked for others so let me take a couple minutes to tell you what worked for me. I'll be glad to go into more detail if there is interest. Basically I had the same routine for almost every tinder date and I closed close to 100% of the time and kept at least 7-8 plates at a time for a year. I was 28, 5-11, and 175.
My best openers were based off something in their profile, such as if they were wearing some weird hat. "If we hang out later can you not wear that (__)? I already have mine on and I don't want it to be weird."
I would exchange some messages and then if it was someone I wanted to meet up with I would just say, "Well this app drains my battery so if you wanna grab a beer sometime here's my cell."
I never asked for a number. I never sent follow up messages. If I didn't ask for their number it shows them that I'm not thirsty. When texting I would tell her to send a selfie to make sure I'm not getting catfished.
When it came time to meet up I always used the same bar. It's close to my house, there is no smoking, no food, and free pool. The bartenders knew what I was doing and we got along well. So I would ask what part of town they're in. No matter what they said, I would say, "Ok let's meet somewhere in the middle. How about ____?" I always said that I can't be out late since I work the following day so just a couple beers. This lets her think in advance that I'm not out to get drunk and take her home. It puts her into my frame. We are just having a couple because I have shit to do.
Another little thing I did was joke that if she's late, she buys. It's all fun and cute but when they walk in a couple minutes late I would make fun a bit and they'd buy me a round.
Anyways.. pool is a great activity while having a couple drinks. I'm decent enough that she'll think I'm good. They never are so it makes for a fun dynamic. The high tables next to the pool table are up against the wall so when she sits down her knees are facing outwards. This makes the initial touching super easy. I would get close, laugh about whatever, and rest a hand on the inner knee. When it doesn't get pushed away that's a green light. On the next round of beers I would do the same thing but now up on the inside of the thigh. The area that shows my intentions. When it doesn't get brushed away... it's time to get home.
NOW, we all hear about giving her some way to hamster herself back to your place without feeling like a slut. Let me tell you dudes the absolute best way that has NEVER let me down.
"Well I had a good time. I don't like to have any more beers when I have to drive home so I'm gonna head back. I'm close by if you wanna come over and play Mario kart"
You're going to think I'm kidding but every fucking time they would say something along the lines of ohhh I loved that game. I'd kick your ass at that game. My brothers used to play that! Blah bla bla fucking bla. They just want a reason to tell themselves THATS why they're going back to my house. When they get to my house they excuse themselves to my bathroom where there was always a very fancy girls necklace on the counter. Some rich tinder girl left it there before she left town. Every future girl would come out asking who's it was. I brushed it off and it gave me instant abundance proof. Now she knows I have others over, that it happens enough that I don't even pay attention to misplaced jewelry, and that I fuck girls with high class things. It sounds silly typing this out, but I'm just telling you what worked.
Anyways..
Show that you aren't thirsty, show that you are busy and have time for just a couple, show that you are selective, and most of all get a Nintendo 64
EDIT: my inbox blew up with people asking for my pics. Stop worrying about what I look like. If you're not handsome than get bigger and get rich.

In reply to your post,


Not leading definitely is a weakness. However I don't fully follow on it creating a weaker frame, could you expand on this?

The first conversation example is definitely superior to the second, if it played out like that.

Or maybe I could really put my writing cap on and do it in the same amount of messages with something very fresh and interesting, but that's quadruple the work on my part for the same result. And that's assuming she even texts me in the first place!

Which potentially negates the Law of Least effort.

Most my tinder success has came from quick interactions where we immediately start messaging back and forth after matching. If she were to immediately text you after leaving your digits, it could just eaze into setting up logistics, then a "I'll see ya then!" and you're done.

It sounds like it your experience this happens less often than not, though.


EDIT: Regal,

Honestly, I did this a lot. But rather than just throwing it out there my process has always been to get the date and then just give my number afterwards with a 'text me'.

But by that point I already have the date and logistics set up so I'm not terribly concerned. Haven't noticed much of a difference between this and asking for the number

Word, so you think this is a pretty minor factor in the grand scheme of things?

 

[lostnumber]

This guys overall process is excellent, so I'm not surprised he had a lot of success. I also suspect he's a very good looking guy and lives in a high volume area. Really the only thing I completely disagree with is the number piece

Put it this way; 100% of the time I get a cute girls number I will text her. XX%?? of the time (definitely not 100%) I give a girl my number she will text me. Which percentage seems like a better value? Imagine this were day game, would you put your number in a girls phone and then walk away hoping she called? Sure if its works it'll work like dynamite, but you're going to kill your overall consistency running things that way.

You could take this guys entire excellent process but be the one to text first and drive the date and I guarantee you'd get equal or better results. If you're THAT good looking that girls are actually chasing you then maybe you could run it his way. But if you are top 1% in looks your Tinder game and game in general are simply going to be different from us "average" guys anyway. If you're a male model you don't really need my advice to get laid

 

[lostnumber]

Not leading definitely is a weakness. However I don't fully follow on it creating a weaker frame, could you expand on this?

Questions like this are good, it makes me focus in and figure out how to quantify something I instinctively know is true but haven't put into words before.

Your frame and your words are everything online (well, that and your looks of course, but we have less control over that). In person your word choice is so much less important because you can communicate so much with your nonverbals and tone, but online you have to tell a compelling story with only your words.

Similar to when you are pulling a girl in real life, you need to come up with some kind of rationale for why the two of you are going to spend time together. It doesn't necessarily have to be crazy like what I usually go for, but it does have to be strong and clear, and it cant be overly sexual or no girl will buy into it. If you message a girl and say "Would you like to consume some alcohol and then have sex with me?" that isn't a frame a lot of girls are going to bite on, unless you are some kind of billionaire Adonis, or the girl is fat and desperate.

A weak frame would be something like "Hey, its really fun talking to you, could I maybe have your number so we can talk more"? you can see how timid and lame this is, and how its going to lead into friend zone or potential boyfriend territory very quickly.

A strong frame like one I might use is "Let me sweep you off your feet and we can travel the world on my magical carpet" Its direct while at the same time being playful and fun and romantic.

When a girl agrees to my ridiculous date frame I immediately transition into logistics and move fast. I've done the hard work and now its time to move towards the finish line. My frame or narrative when I text her becomes simply "We agreed to go on a date now let's figure out the details." This is easy and simple and intuitive and logical. I told her I was going to text her to figure out logistics and now... I'm texting her to figure out logistics. Not a "sexy" frame any more, but a direct and simple one. Note that I COULD continue to be over the top and carry my ridiculous frame through to the logistics part, but I deliberately don't. I've accomplished what I needed to and if I overdo the prose at this point it sort of feels like I'm trying too hard.

Anyway, when we do it my way we have a very clear frame and narrative for the interaction. You see the second example I posted above how our frame of going on a date is absolutely gone? I sent essentially the exact same messages in both my examples but you can probably tell that psychologically the second one doesn't work. It feels like I'm jumping out of nowhere with that logistical question Now, could I write something to reframe this and fix that? Yes, absolutely. But thats more of my time, more of my effort, me writing a longer message compared to her. I'm essentially going to have write a callback to our date frame to go for the logistics at this point. I'm a good writer; I'm sure I could figure something out. But why? Its like if a girl agreed to come back to my place, why stop for a chat along the way instead of just taking her home?

With all of that being said, this is like 20% of my objection to the technique. All the things I mentiond are overcomeable, and if she texts first you are at least getting additional investment. The biggest problem is that a large portion of the time she won't text you. And what then? You send another message on Tinder asking for her number? Now you're truly chasing

I believe you mentioned that so far you are 1 for 2 on getting the text by giving the girl your number. If we had a big enough sample size I wouldn't be surprised if that ratio stays consistent. On the year so far I'm 26 for 26 using my numbers method and getting a text reply, so for me at least, it's working.

I can see corner cases where you could play around with the technique. For example if a girl messages you first on Tinder, and then is super into your conversation and date frame, maybe you could give this technique a go to continue escalating her investment because you are confident she'll follow through. Or if you are a damn fine looking guy and your profile just oozes value it might work. I do believe the OP who suggested this was slaying like crazy, his system is overall very good and I find him credible. So clearly it worked for him.

But for the average Joe? No, I would not recommend this as your bread and butter.

Does that answer your question?