The healthy way to think about race and ethnicity as a guy.

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

I have long argued with the most senior members of this forum, even some like @Franco who is someone I look up to. Some will say race is a minor factor, others a major factor, I really don't want to debate either one too much.

The problem is that too many guys think about race the wrong way, they see it from a view of inferiority.

Way too many guys while whine, complain, and rant about how unfair life is because somehow a white guy gets a pass. A lot of guys will go off on the deep dark end about how racist women are or how unfair society is, I won't even elaborate that much on it. Eliot Rodger is a good example of someone who goes off on the deep end about race, a mentally wrecked imbecile. Now these sorts of toxic, whiney, inferiority complex and cynical views are what poison any discussion on race and any mindset towards it.

I think these sorts of guys are the dump of humanity and truly hope they don't reproduce, in fact, I hope natural selection weeds these cowards out. I've encountered the type before, the insecure depressed types who are a cancer to be around. Now I want to make it clear that I discourage this and see the danger in talking about race because of this, you can bring out depressed cynical ethnic guys with no intention of improving or putting in the work.

Yet at the same time, you can't ignore it either. The truth is that race does matter, especially when it comes to going for hot girls.

Instead, you have to see that everyone has a market! Think of it as almost the Electoral College in American politics except the winner does not take all.

The way the Electoral College works is that a candidate has to win a certain amount of votes and first to 270 gets to be president. What's strange is that while they will say Massachusetts is all liberals and Texas is all right-wing conservatives, it is not so black and white. A Republican can win a ton of votes in Massachusetts even though it will not be the majority, it will be more 40-60, same with a Democrat in Texas. You will find out why this is relevant later.

Any guy of any race can get hot girls but his experiences and the kinds of hot girls that love him will vary.

I was comparing my dating app account with my friend Preston's. Preston is a tall blond All American kid who looks like one of the Hemsworth brothers, I am a handsome Indian guy.

I noticed that while a lot of my matches included sexy girls with dark hair and tanned skin (from Indian and Middle Eastern to even white girls with that look), his matches included a lot of blonde bombshells.

Now I matched with some sexy blondes too while Preston matched with some sexy dark haired girls, yet it was all at a different frequency.

Even when I used to wing with Preston, I noticed that hot blondes would warm up to him and give him IOIs often while Preston often told me he found that dark-haired girls and sexy ethnic girls warmed up to me way more.

Even with that market, you can get whatever you want, something I might do a post on later.

Due to your race, you are going to have certain markets that go more for you. It does not mean you are lesser than a white guy, it means your market might be different. In some markets, your results will be more like 60% (or majority) of girls want you while in others, it is closer to 30%.

For example, I love Latinas but I'll say that the hot ones generally dislike brown guys (Indian, Pakistani, etc.), my results with them will be closer to 30%. On the other hand with Eastern European girls, they go up more to 60%. Does that mean I cannot get a hot Latin chick? No, it just means that my market with them is a lot smaller. Due to this, I won't consider going to a Colombia or Brazil for an international sex trip but will happily go to Romania and Poland where I have seen men who look like me slay.

I will later do a post on how to game girls who do not see you as their type.

Most of all, this shit changes so fast.

I used to never see hot Asian women with anything other than white guys or in some cases Asian men, these days I see a lot of Indian men with sexy Asian women, maybe @Grand Pooba had something to lead to that change!

It also used to be that hot blonde party girls only went for black guys when going interracial, these days I see them with Indians, Asians, and especially Latino men.

So you're not inferior or lesser, your market is just different.

 

[DarkKnight]

Again, I am considered ethnic as well and I agree with most of your assesments, however I don't get the fixation.

Race is but one damn variable among hundreds maybe. A girl might walk outside looking for some other stereotype and then you come along and surprise her with your pre-opener lvl 200 and dashing sexy non verbals lvl 90. Which crush her puny "x race ressistance". Attraction is not a choice is one of the oldest pickup maxims right?

Yes race is relevant and you should definitely take that in account. I think it correlates quite a bit with social frame as well, probably the thing which you have to worry about the most, but you are seriously microing too much. I believe this causes more harm than anything.

How can you assume attraction when you worry about race all the time?

 

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

Again, I am considered ethnic as well and I agree with most of your assesments, however I don't get the fixation.

Race is but one damn variable among hundreds maybe. A girl might walk outside looking for some other stereotype and then you come along and surprise her with your pre-opener lvl 200 and dashing sexy non verbals lvl 90. Which crush her puny "x race ressistance". Attraction is not a choice is one of the oldest pickup maxims right?

Yes race is relevant and you should definitely take that in account. I think it correlates quite a bit with social frame as well, probably the thing which you have to worry about the most, but you are seriously microing too much. I believe this causes more harm than anything.

How can you assume attraction when you worry about race all the time?

Well because it needs to be thought of in the right way.

 

[Carousel]

If this annoys you, I suggest you do less online game and more real life game. Online game is notoriously superficial, which means that factors like race, looks, height etc get far more emphasis than in club game or day game.

 

[Grand Pooba]

If this annoys you, I suggest you do less online game and more real life game. Online game is notoriously superficial, which means that factors like race, looks, height etc get far more emphasis than in club game or day game.

@Oh Pry we've been telling you exactly this for a very long time - online game is based only on a girl's preference, whereas in person game is based entirely on attraction and desire. Preference is based on a girl's imagined ideal, which is influenced by things such as what people around her feel is hot and attractive, what TV and society tells her is attractive, and what she sees in the world around her. However, her desire is based entirely on a guy's influence on her in the moment and what he influences her to do with him - including have sex and completely blow her mind as to the kind of guy he is and what she then likes.

The most important thing to remember, though, is that through the means of her desire, any man has the power to completely change her preference! That's one of the most powerful effects that any man can have on a girl.

We see this in the world today all the time including some of the examples you mention - for instance a girl might be blonde and dating only white guys in high school who were mediocre and not that great in bed, and then she might try out a black guy (or Asian guy, or Indian guy, or Latino) who makes her feel desire and then completely blows her mind in bed! Can you guess what her preference will be after that happens? Will it stay as white guys, or will it change to one of the ethnic guys?

This is the hidden secret behind the social phrase "once you go black you never go back," but frankly any guy can do this as long as he blows her mind in the bedroom.

You also see this a lot with Asian women - white guys are not their automatic preference, but after she tries one they might become a preference simply because they provide a better dating and sexual experience than Asian men who don't try hard enough.

See this article of mine here:

Interest Preference Desire

If you want to do something, but you never take action do it... what is that? It’s a case where you have the interest – but lack the desire. A friend who has been consulting with me about the dating world visited me recently for a weekend – and brought some interesting stories to share. He...

www.girlschase.com

 

[Carousel]

Yes race is relevant and you should definitely take that in account. I think it correlates quite a bit with social frame as well, probably the thing which you have to worry about the most, but you are seriously microing too much. I believe this causes more harm than anything.

Most aspiring PUAs who complain about race have their social frame off in some way. However it is easier to blame something visible in the mirror than social factors that require a more elaborate analysis. This is BTW also true for a lot of incels and White loser guys, they tend to blame all sorts of irrelevant factors like genetics, height, facial structure etc when in reality what holds most of these guys back is that they are weak, negative, fat or skinnyfat and socially awkward.

 

[naturalmikey]

i’m white and i have a blind spot that women only like white guys. it benefits me. if i wasn’t white i’d think it doesn’t matter. whatever benefits you is the best thing to believe. i believe if you’re not white, fit, and at least 6’ tall you don’t have a chance. i know that’s not true. but these red pill ideas of attraction benefit me greatly.

the huge benefit of this is these are common ideas. so i’ll bring them up in jest. being white is a huge benefit. being black doesn’t hurt much. certain types of latin lover types do very well. but if you’re not one of those three you do have to make up for it massively in other areas.

 

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

i’m white and i have a blind spot that women only like white guys. it benefits me. if i wasn’t white i’d think it doesn’t matter. whatever benefits you is the best thing to believe. i believe if you’re not white, fit, and at least 6’ tall you don’t have a chance. i know that’s not true. but these red pill ideas of attraction benefit me greatly.

the huge benefit of this is these are common ideas. so i’ll bring them up in jest. being white is a huge benefit. being black doesn’t hurt much. certain types of latin lover types do very well. but if you’re not one of those three you do have to make up for it massively in other areas.

I disagree with this notion, the idea is that white guys and other guys who do well do well because they have put the work in. If this was not true, then incel forums would barely have any white guys on them.

The other thing that everyone needs to take into account is every guy is putting in the work unless he has an easy out through status and social circle game. You're in California which is a completely different world of its own but in NYC, men of all races clean up. I'd say Asian and Indian men are probably closer to the top of the pecking order these days in Manhattan.

As for LA, who cares, that place is a dump. Even here in NYC we get tired of Californians trying to flood in here lol.

 

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

The issue is I think my post came at the wrong time but in most cases, it is seen as the right way to think about race. I think the way men think about race needs to change, it cannot be naive to where you say it does not matter but it cannot be depressing to where you think like Eliot Rodger either. The forum has had its fill and I have talked about race a great deal recently which is arguably rubbing some the wrong way.

My thoughts with race discussions are more knowledge focused. I want to know where to avoid and what places to go to, get more insight on areas, because I understand that the location and demographics you target impact your results depending on your race. No doubt in some situations I outshine a tall handsome white guy and in others he outshines me.

Research and know your market!

 

[naturalmikey]

I disagree with this notion, the idea is that white guys and other guys who do well do well because they have put the work in. If this was not true, then incel forums would barely have any white guys on them.

The other thing that everyone needs to take into account is every guy is putting in the work unless he has an easy out through status and social circle game. You're in California which is a completely different world of its own but in NYC, men of all races clean up. I'd say Asian and Indian men are probably closer to the top of the pecking order these days in Manhattan.

As for LA, who cares, that place is a dump. Even here in NYC we get tired of Californians trying to flood in here lol.

saying la is a dump because of certain areas is like saying new york is a dump because of the bronx. i live in venice which is far from a dump. i'm by the beach and the weather is between 65-75 90% of the year. i also have a ton of friends in nyc and i'm just gonna say right now your statement regarding indians and asians being near the top of the pecking order is horse shit. even if it were true it would be the only such place in america. but your statement is not true. height is the number one factor in the lms equation. certain races (white and black) are the tallest. therefore it makes sense why they do the best. there is also a westernized standard of beauty which favors caucasians. can indian men do well? of course they can. can asian men do well? yes, but it's even less likely than indian men. i'm tempted to fly out to new york just so i can prove to you how delusional you are. i actually probably will next year. i say we get some guys and some cameras and fuck around on video and see who is killing it in new york and then post it her. for some reason i like to back up the things i say.

 

[naturalmikey]

oh and one more thing. last night i was out at warwick for a friend's birthday. it's a relatively exclusive hollywood club. it's kinda famous for the nude picture of emily ratijkowski on the wall. anyway i always notice in these exclusive venues that saudis, indians, and asians have a lot of women around them. because they have a lot of money. but the girls end up fucking me, my friends, promoters... these girls have no problem making fun of these losers behind their back. you only get to see one side of things. granted you're tall jacked and handsome by your own description. these things trump race. trust me your experience is not the normal experience of ethnic men in america. nor is the experience of these rich ethnics. take some random asian software coder that makes $125k a year and put him up againt some random white guy that makes $80k a year. 99% of the time the white guy will do better. now give that asian his own company where he makes $1M a year and gets bottle service every weekend. he is going to appear to be doing quite well with the ladies. but they're not fucking him.

 

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

I never said I was jacked.

So first of all, even if I give you LA (and that's a stretch), just what exactly do you know about the rest of America? I am genuinely curious how many different states you have been to, partied in, slayed in, and lived in long enough to know what goes on. Right now, I am assuming most of your experience and knowledge of this stuff comes from shit you read on incel forums. Are these the "friends" you're talking about Mikey?

Second of all, cameras? Are you fucking serious right now? @naturalmikey I try to like you but this is some Eliot Rodger level shit, hopefully, you do not do what Eliot did when he saw those hot blondes with some Asian and Indian dudes...

Finally, please stay far away from NYC. Nothing against you but this city has been flooded with LA PUAs polluting the clubs and creeping out girls. Most of all, you'll come here and go to the commercialized bars where you'll likely pay a cover anyways. The nightlife here where you do see model-tier girls go for the white-collar finance and higher status guys (usually WASP, Jewish, and to a smaller extent Asian and Indian) is more hidden anyways, they wouldn't even let you in because you'll probably dress like the typical LA club dude and get rejected at the door.

These are the place you see well-to-do guys meet hot girls, not some "popular" nightclub made to attract the desperate wannabees and funnel money in for bottleservice. I can tell you right now that not only will you not find these places but you won't get in without a $500 cover.

Let's get to the root of this though Mikey, none of this shit adds up brother.

I have to call you out on your shit here, none of it adds up.

The fact that some top tier club game nightlife slayer who slays hot blonde models is so desperate to discredit Indian and Asian men to the point where I feel like you have a vendetta is hard to believe. Once a guy hangs around enough dudes who get it and get the vibes from them, he knows what goes on and who is who.

Slayers, naturals, and guys who are top of the pecking order have a kind of vibe to them and none of them involves using words like "Indiancel" or spending life on some incel forum. None of this adds up at all, none of it. In fact, they could care less for race of other men anyways, they're too busy hitting up models to be this adamant to target the image of certain races.

I am really preparing you for NYC too because unlike LA....

We have a really good bullshit detector in this city. We know a conman from what is "real". We are not fake and plastic and appearances here, there is a reason NYC is the mecca of western civilization.

My takeaway is that you have some axe to grind against Asian and Indian men, as for why, who knows. No amount of argument or debate or evidence will change your outlook. Just keep it real and don't attempt to come off as an authority on things you know little about.

Here is my suggestion for you instead.

Work with a minority, drop this little vendetta, and let me boy @Grand Pooba who is one of the most respected members here take you out to this city. Learn from him, let him be your father figure, and let him treat you like a son. Let him help you grow so you can get those brunette hotties you want so bad without bleaching your hair my man.

No need to hate, plenty of pussy to go around.

 

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

As for me saying LA is a dump, it had little to do with what is physical and all to do with the culture. Los Angeles has no soul and is a smog filled dump. The ratios suck, women are plastic, and the culture is naturally non-existent. Even the power you had in the film industry is all gone because the actors now go to Atlanta to find work. It explains why so many people from LA are flooding other cities and we fucking hate it too. The fake try-hard persona, you're guaranteed to find it in some "high-end" NYC nightclub typically in the Meatpacking District and you can whiff it out a mile away.

So I don't care about your pretty beaches, San Diego is prettier and has cooler people anyways. I care about the toxic try-hard culture full of plastic women who are a lesser version of a Miami girl. LA has no culture and is in many ways a fucking dump, if it was that great, the people there would not be flooding into other cities.

 

[naturalmikey]

okay dude. i'm offering to come to your city and i have no problem offering proof lol. we can sit by the pool comparing tinder matches too lol. and like i've never been to nyc. like 10% of the people in la aren't ny transplants. and like a lot of my friends haven't moved there. i'm not discrediting you at all. the fact that you want to attack me personally is ridiculous. i have no vendetta towards asians or indian men. i just realistically know that women do not prefer them. that doesn't make them bad people. you can say whatever you want about white people. that has nothing to do with me. i'm just one person.

i go to lounges mostly anyway. i don't like night clubs very well. when you know where the good lounges are you'll often find the same girls as the best clubs, just in lesser numbers. we could go wherever, but clearly you're not up for a challenge. and that's cool. but don't talk a big game. if you change your mind maybe say may or june when the weather starts getting nice we could make a weekend of it. i have no ill feelings towards you or your race. i'm just stating that women have preferences.

also the whole try hard thing. i wear jeans and either graphic tees or black tees. i would not change my attire for ny. dressing the least try hard as possible is what i go with. i'm not gonna get dressed up to impress girls. that's just not my style.

also if you hung out around venice and santa monica and even manhattan beach you might notice it's pretty similar to san diego. a lot of naturally pretty blondes who have not had plastic surgery. you're thinking more beverly hills, west hollywood, and newport beach.

 

[naturalmikey]

i really don't think it's that dificult in nyc honestly

 

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

I don't think you got what I was saying @naturalmikey

No matter what you see or come across, nothing is going to change your mind on race and that is not my goal at all. You can see loads of hot blondes and others eating the face of some Asian dude, you'll still rationalize it in some way, I know people like you quite well. I am not trying to change your mind on anything here. This is why I am not bothering to take you up on changing any view because confirmation bias is a legit thing here.

I've been all around this city and seen it in many ways, Asian and Indian men are doing just fine brother, myself and the great @Grand Pooba included.

Even if what you said was true and women largely hated Asian and Indian men, you missed the point of this thread. It was not to have a dick-measuring contest over race or play nasty politics where we shit on each race. I have not targeted white men or any race here. The point of this thread, and the forum really, is to help each other out as brothers. The thread was made from a helpful point of view yet you barged into it targeting a certain race.

You see Mikey, this is what separates Girlschase from an incel forum. Here, we help each other get better and find results, we don't shit on each other's cultures, races, and traits.

So seriously, drop this little vendetta you have with Asian and Indian men, desperately trying to prove how low value and undesirable they are. Come on over to NYC, let my boy @Grand Pooba coach you up and teach you how to dress like a true gentleman (and not a supreme one). Let @Kvothe and @Grand Pooba take you to town and get you hooked on your dream brunette hottie that you cannot seem to pull in LA.

It's what we are about here, helping each other find answers and get better, not shitting on each other's races and cultures.

 

[Skills]

Some of my views on race, age and height etc...:

1.- there is a group of indian guys clubbing in my city that are extremely aggressive and don't get hints.. plus the style, and fitness is not there.... My point is that they may get the feeling they are getting rejected cause they are "indian" but they really have bad fundamentals and game...(i would also if i was indian, chinese etc.. go in big group of indians, or chinese etc.. i would mix with other races to go out)

2.- about height.- My wing primo is extremely short, once we pull a girl that he did not fuck that confess to me "he is too short i like guys your heigtht" , my wing fuck the shit out of her, took her to swing clubs, did 3 somes etc... my wing primo (short) is really good with women and he is very short, anybody in the area may have seen him picking up very young women with another girl....

with race just play opposite to the stereotype, and see what territories work better for you.... (for example i am at a disadvantage in my current city West Plam (target demographic white), and i don't care, but i would do better in places like Miami, broward, ny, la) and i know this but i don't care, my point is see what cities work better for you...

Go against the stereotype:

Latins: macho, and extremely jelaous (i totally play sexual openness and non jealousy every chance i get)

Blacks: too aggressive and persistent (so just speak proper English vs slang, one step forward 2 backwards, dress more preppy like vs ghetoo/urban like) of course that is if you target demographic is preppy girls if is urban girls, no changes needed

Indians: Extremely shy, sexually repress.... So again go against the stereotype look at matador(mystery wing) i think he was indian...

Chinese: Extremely analytical and shy... Again go against the stereotype good example Squantin cassanova.

Short men: go for women your height or shorter

older guys: is hard to avoid polarization my ratios are incredible with women within 10-15 years younger, but unfortunatly they are not really club goers in my area, so you will need to have your fundamentals good and work a bit harder.... Your calmness vs younger could work to your advantage, good example "hand moody"

white men: they have a reputation to being lame and boring and can't dance for shit!, and a lot of women avoid them....


Every race has their pros and cons.... With that being said younger, taller, white will obviously do better online dating...(you may have to put more number, pay for premium etc...)

 

[naturalmikey]

i don’t think indian dudes can’t do well. i’ve seen it. i’ve never seen an asian slater but i’m sure the chris huria and jon skywalker would. regardless most women have racial preferences towards white men. in my experience black men and the latin lover type also do quite well. this is what i’ve seen. i do live in a very white part of town. but i see the same in hollywood. this does not mean it’s inpossible for other guys. but the asians and indians who do well are without doubt top tier (top 5%). this is not true of white men. my buddy’s friend is a 5’6 out of shape filipino. but he offers tremendous social connections. he has a pretty good social circle of hot girls which he sleeps with some. would he do better as a 5’10 white guy? you tell me

 

[Skills]

i’m white and i have a blind spot that women only like white guys. it benefits me. if i wasn’t white i’d think it doesn’t matter. whatever benefits you is the best thing to believe. i believe if you’re not white, fit, and at least 6’ tall you don’t have a chance. i know that’s not true. but these red pill ideas of attraction benefit me greatly.

the huge benefit of this is these are common ideas. so i’ll bring them up in jest. being white is a huge benefit. being black doesn’t hurt much. certain types of latin lover types do very well. but if you’re not one of those three you do have to make up for it massively in other areas.

The only problem is that i know a bunch of women that do not like white guys,

i don’t think indian dudes can’t do well. i’ve seen it. i’ve never seen an asian slater but i’m sure the chris huria and jon skywalker would. regardless most women have racial preferences towards white men. in my experience black men and the latin lover type also do quite well. this is what i’ve seen. i do live in a very white part of town. but i see the same in hollywood. this does not mean it’s inpossible for other guys. but the asians and indians who do well are without doubt top tier (top 5%). this is not true of white men. my buddy’s friend is a 5’6 out of shape filipino. but he offers tremendous social connections. he has a pretty good social circle of hot girls which he sleeps with some. would he do better as a 5’10 white guy? you tell me

White guys do not do as well as you think. For example in Miami, and cities like NY even LA... A lot of women would not date white guys... "they have no personality" "they are lame" "they can't dance" "they are boring", which comes back to my point, in certain areas and with certain demographic of women, some races have higher odds... But white guys, do not get a free pass, just cause they are white...

 

[naturalmikey]

i agree @Skills i think there are three types of men women almost universally prefer: white, black, latin lover. here in la it’s mostly white and black because most of the latin men here are mexican and most are not the type women prefer. i believe you’re in miami where there are a lot of attractive latin men. also in some areas women do not like black men. but you’ll usually find one of those three to be the predominant preference.