The Luxury of Aloofness

[Rakehell]

I remember for a short stint of time I tried out the “hyper masculine” mantras being passed around (they aren’t all that masucline when you really think about it), such as be the prize, let women chase, focus on yourself, don’t simp, etc etc.

They all sound really glossy and really appeal to the male ego. But what I noticed about myself and am still noticing about myself, as well as in people similar to me.

I REALLY don’t have the luxury of being aloof in the slightest. Like even the smallest hint of being unattainable before I sleep with a girl (I get some leeway after).

I believe this to be my sticking point that i’ve been unconsciously working through. These ideologies appealed to me because I really did believe I was more attractive than alot of girls I see on a daily basis (unlike most guys who subscribe out of bitterness).

But that beginning stage where rejection is still on the table me being unattaible is similar to a kick on the clitoris. Girls go sour on me like milk in the fridge, and I’d never get any girls.

Im still ironing out aloofness in myself to the minute, because the smallest look, the slightest inkling in my voice tone, holding a bored look for a fraction of a second too long is quick to auto reject a girl.

I also have a really laid back personality which is also mistaken for being uninterested.

When a girl approaches me she’s extremely quick to auto reject, it’s as if I had to lift her into the air, twirl her around, and make love to her right there.

I’m not sure of where I was going with this post but empirically speaking at least for me, I get way better results doing most of the pursuing in person. Except it’s not really pursuing it’s more like “leading” because they tend to just nod and stare and follow along. I’m honestly having trouble relating to advice floating around in the mainstream more than ever.

Over the phone i’m particularly low investment because it’s like girls are “content” with just being able to communicate with someone like me and they over complicate the link up making it not happen. I.e “if I fuck him maybe he’ll move on to a different girl” “maybe he won’t like me” “i’m too nervous in person” “I won’t be one of his groupies”

Like on days i’m feeling antisocial girls will actively avoid me because I smell of rejection.

 

[POB]

I also have a really laid back personality which is also mistaken for being uninterested.

There are two ways to deal with that:
1) talk more than her (yes, it goes against the seduction mantra);
2) ask key questions;

Some gambits can do the job, but I think the following could help you too:
- "Hey, I need your opinion on an important matter...can you help me out with your feminine perspective?"
- "Wow, I really like your vibe right now....what are you doing to be so radiant today? (compliment her hair or one of her nice physical traits)"
- "Hey, you should stop being so cute...if you stay 10 more seconds by my side I'm gonna have to throw away my stuffed unicorns and put YOU on my shelf (let her giggle and segway into any kind of feminine topic)"

Basically you are throwing away your "masculinity" for a short period of time and being more bubbly and focused on them.
Asking those type of questions may let them open up and relate to you a bit more ("he wants to know about ME without licking my boots? wow, that's interesting"). Once they are hooked and talking about themselves you can go back to leading.

Makes sense?

 

[Rakehell]

Perfect sense, thanks @POB . I’m working on talking more, I’m used to implementing that “speak less listen more” advice as you said but it doesn’t always translate well.

I’m glad I found this stuff while I’m young because i’ve found alot of advice contradicts the reactions I receive even if its otherwise good advice for someone else.

 

[0---]

Aloof works when she's aloof and hot.


If you're very attractive yourself you need to make yourself attainable to most womrn.

 

[DarkKnight]

I also have a really laid back personality which is also mistaken for being uninterested.

When a girl approaches me she’s extremely quick to auto reject, it’s as if I had to lift her into the air, twirl her around, and make love to her right there.

I think you are rationalizing things. You are probably playing hard to get and trying to be a challenge. But by taking this to the extreme you are punishing good behavior. That is all there is to it. For a comprehensive study about how to deal with this, read Alek's calibration series.

Also women do not "expect you to twirl her around and make love to her right there." You can sense, and I know everyone can sense when a chick gives you an escalation window. If you mess that up, that is on you, not her. She is putting her faith in you, I think that is a very nice thing to do.

 

[RedNeck]

The aloofness thing is for woman who is hotter ( has more value ) than you . By being aloof , you communicate “ hey I am not going head over heals because you are pretty. I am different than the other guys “ .
Also, this is aloofness backfires when dealing with low self esteem girls

 

[Rakehell]

Aloof works when she's aloof and hot.


If you're very attractive yourself you need to make yourself attainable to most womrn.

Working on this, thanks for the feedback.

I think you are rationalizing things. You are probably playing hard to get and trying to be a challenge. But by taking this to the extreme you are punishing good behavior. That is all there is to it. For a comprehensive study about how to deal with this, read Alek's calibration series.

Also women do not "expect you to twirl her around and make love to her right there." You can sense, and I know everyone can sense when a chick gives you an escalation window. If you mess that up, that is on you, not her. She is putting her faith in you, I think that is a very nice thing to do.

Not necessarily playing hard to get. What I meant by “laid back” is generally i’m unreactive and i’m not that easily impressed. Something that’s a “woahhh!” for you might be a “hmmm interesting” for me. Alot of my demeanor is what chase outlined in his article on smoothness. I actually rarely tease or actively challenge girls unless they’re being difficult because they close off easily.

As for when women approach me, my “twirl her around and make love to her” analogy was an exaggeration. I find that when I’m approached instead of me doing the approach, the girls expect you to react fast and the windows are much tighter.

The aloofness thing is for woman who is hotter ( has more value ) than you . By being aloof , you communicate “ hey I am not going head over heals because you are pretty. I am different than the other guys “ .
Also, this is aloofness backfires when dealing with low self esteem girls

This about sums it up.

 

[DarkKnight]

Not necessarily playing hard to get. What I meant by “laid back” is generally i’m unreactive and i’m not that easily impressed.

Yes, you just described being hard to get. Too aloof. You are hurting attainability.

I find that when I’m approached instead of me doing the approach, the girls expect you to react fast and the windows are much tighter.

We know, it is called an escalation window. But again, you do not need to "make love there and then", but if you ignore their efforts you get miffed girls. You need to reward good behavior and in this case make some form of progress. Girls who approach you are taking a social risk. Ignoring this/being too aloof, is on you.

 

[TomInHo]

I remember for a short stint of time I tried out the “hyper masculine” mantras being passed around (they aren’t all that masucline when you really think about it), such as be the prize, let women chase, focus on yourself, don’t simp, etc etc.

They all sound really glossy and really appeal to the male ego. But what I noticed about myself and am still noticing about myself, as well as in people similar to me.

I REALLY don’t have the luxury of being aloof in the slightest. Like even the smallest hint of being unattainable before I sleep with a girl (I get some leeway after).

Most guys that get into dating and seduction usually start from a deficit, and are not used to getting regular sexual attention from women. Hence the popularity of those ego boosting catch phrases

But when a guy becomes genuinely attractive, a lot of that hyper masculine gibberish hurts a lot more than it helps. Because girls are already intimidated by you and acting like a snub just makes things worse.

Being nice and warm goes a long way

When a girl approaches me she’s extremely quick to auto reject, it’s as if I had to lift her into the air, twirl her around, and make love to her right there.

I know you're joking but you probably should try that.

Showing interest will make her feel better about her decision to approach. Because guys are not the only ones that struggle with approach anxiety ya know

Over the phone i’m particularly low investment because it’s like girls are “content” with just being able to communicate with someone like me and they over complicate the link up making it not happen. I.e “if I fuck him maybe he’ll move on to a different girl” “maybe he won’t like me” “i’m too nervous in person” “I won’t be one of his groupies”

My best-friend calls this being "Scared Of Beautiful". Similar to how a lot of us would act like in high school when we got some attention from our crush. Happy to be talking to her but also too scared to think straight and know what to do next.

Moral of the story is that girls are a lot like guys when it comes to attraction. We both act weird as hell when we're lovestruck

 

[topcat]

this article is for you

 

[DarkKnight]

There is another nuance to this as well. A lot of times people act aloof, draw others in because they are actually risk avoidand. Basically they want to increase interest and stall showing too much interest, but by doing this they push the other away. Sometimes I suspect that this happens because in the past the person had bad experiences with escalating or pushing the interaction forward, so they want to be "sure". Not sure if this is the case with OP though, but this is another perspective.

 

[Rakehell]

Yes, you just described being hard to get. Too aloof. You are hurting attainability.

Okay well if this is indeed the case, what is your solution? I’m not purposefully indifferent I really just am not easily impressed lol, it’s not a facade for me to get people to try harder.

We know, it is called an escalation window. But again, you do not need to "make love there and then", but if you ignore their efforts you get miffed girls. You need to reward good behavior and in this case make some form of progress. Girls who approach you are taking a social risk. Ignoring this/being too aloof, is on you.

I’m working on reacting faster, it usually throws me off kilter when I get approached during the day.

Most guys that get into dating and seduction usually start from a deficit, and are not used to getting regular sexual attention from women. Hence the popularity of those ego boosting catch phrases

But when a guy becomes genuinely attractive, a lot of that hyper masculine gibberish hurts a lot more than it helps. Because girls are already intimidated by you and acting like a snub just makes things worse.

Yeah I found that out the hard way. In a way I was seduced by the idea of being “better” in some way because of the attention I WAS receiving, plus the guy’s teaching swore by their results of course. But inevitably I saw that it was all based around bitterness and not because they really believed the mantras they were pushing out. Noone likes to think they’re inferior I think we can all agree on that.

Being nice and warm goes a long way

Yep

I know you're joking but you probably should try that.

Showing interest will make her feel better about her decision to approach. Because guys are not the only ones that struggle with approach anxiety ya know

Maybe I will but if I get #metood, youll have to defend me in court because I can’t afford a lawyer.

But yeah I get you.

Moral of the story is that girls are a lot like guys when it comes to attraction. We both act weird as hell when we're lovestruck

Agreed

 

[DarkKnight]

@SunKing

I get you. I am a high fundamentals guy too, I know exactly what you mean with how women seem to be sudden. Through trial and error, I have learned to whenever a girl gives an escalation window, to prioritize her. If you cannot escalate her there and then, tell her or show her you will get back to her and are sincere. This is the time for sincerity and warmth (without being a pussy ofc.) However if these girls get the notion that you are delaying or playing around. Poof, they can be gone. Especially when they are really enthousiastic about you. You know when they face you, when they are giddy and when they are putting their faith in you. You cannot mess up there.

Also during the day, again it can be distracting. A couple of months ago, I was supposed to catch a flight so I was in a serious hurry. So a tan 8 comes around and is quite forward, but I am thinking about my flight which is imminent and I am in a hurry. In hindsight I should have just taken her number, explain the situation,be sincere and then leave. It would only have cost me a few minutes extra. Instead I was totally in my head and rushing.

About not being impressed at first... yeah I get that too. But when the girl is gone it suddenly gets us thinking right? We feel the loss. I am in a bind there too, sometimes when you push forward... you are simply not that interested at all, you only feel the loss or I think her as a backup in your orbit.

But when you feel a girl could be worth it. Some potential, just push forward and do not hesitate. Hesitation kills the interaction.


And sometimes.. Just sometimes girls do a "move" which they think was obvious or workable with, but they are actually giving the worst passes is in football history. You just need to understand there that women suck with logistics lol

 

[trashKENNUT]

When a girl approaches me she’s extremely quick to auto reject, it’s as if I had to lift her into the air, twirl her around, and make love to her right there.

There are two ways to deal with that:
1) talk more than her (yes, it goes against the seduction mantra);
2) ask key questions;

What exactly is POB, noting. Here's my take.

Have you meet an authority figure? A Member of Parliament or a President?
Maybe you write to @Chase

Whenever a person ask, there's a threshold. It's like those Crash Bandicoot game. There's a limited time where that meter drops to zero.

You will curse that sales person, that member of Parliament. You will curse your President. But then when they meet you one on one, they hear your concerns and say what you want to hear. Then the best part is that they actually solve your problems.

You start feeling relieved.
That threshold meter is gone.
Best part, the authority person solve your problem.

@POB is talking more to her so that her threshold doesn't fall to zero. Imagine POB keep pressing that Playstation 2 button so that she doesn't fall into the hole.

Now, put yourself into this similar situation.

So it is important to

Whenever a person ask, there's a threshold. That person is the one in vulnerability.

z@c+

p.s: High level Data, below.

1) This is why high level men including guys in the Girlschase forums, if you notice, we tend to avoid direct interactions too much. It's like Kings in the chessboards. They rarely meet close to each other.

I'm not really sure why men are like this.

2) High level men also know how to defuse situation with humor or empathy or relate or banter that creates win win situations, while still retaining directness.

Not many can achieve all together but Chase is one of those guy. I know a few guys I met who are this but they are very rare and they really build people. My late brother was this. He was very brutal in banter in his early years but then his banter became 'camaraderie banter' over time, not 'destroying banter'.

When he died, there's more than 10 people who attend my home, on the day itself.

3) Females need continuity. Men need purpose.

4) Time doesn't exist. This is out there but hopefully someday, some people gets this.

z@c+

 

[Rakehell]

@SunKing

I get you. I am a high fundamentals guy too, I know exactly what you mean with how women seem to be sudden. Through trial and error, I have learned to whenever a girl gives an escalation window, to prioritize her. If you cannot escalate her there and then, tell her or show her you will get back to her and are sincere. This is the time for sincerity and warmth (without being a pussy ofc.) However if these girls get the notion that you are delaying or playing around. Poof, they can be gone. Especially when they are really enthousiastic about you. You know when they face you, when they are giddy and when they are putting their faith in you. You cannot mess up there.

I absolutely get you, and admittedly it does not come easily to me. If I have a sticking point it’s dealing with girls who are SUPER into me. It’s like those stories where people meet their inspiration and they deny them a autograph or something and they immediately hate them and go home and tear their posters down. Not trying to brag as i’m sure you guy’s can relate but I don’t know any other way to put it. I am not a good spontaneous manager of emotions trying to work on that.

Also during the day, again it can be distracting. A couple of months ago, I was supposed to catch a flight so I was in a serious hurry. So a tan 8 comes around and is quite forward, but I am thinking about my flight which is imminent and I am in a hurry. In hindsight I should have just taken her number, explain the situation,be sincere and then leave. It would only have cost me a few minutes extra. Instead I was totally in my head and rushing.

Exactly, and in the moment it doesn’t dawn on you what you should be doing, or you might not even care to put in the correct amount of effort. But afterward you’re like “fuckkk I could’ve played that so much better”

About not being impressed at first... yeah I get that too. But when the girl is gone it suddenly gets us thinking right? We feel the loss. I am in a bind there too, sometimes when you push forward... you are simply not that interested at all, you only feel the loss or I think her as a backup in your orbit.

We do. I’m trying to get to the point where the things I say and do are more calculated rather than intuited. Because sometimes I REALLY feel like socializing and talking and my game is able to flow and i’m alot more congruent with the words coming out of my mouth.

But other times I don’t want to be perceived and the constant attention annoys me, and I become alot more robotic. Even if it’s a really attractive girl I can’t seem to will myself to game her and it takes alot more mental effort so I botch it in some way. Being naturally laid back doesn’t help because like you said it takes a great deal of warmth with these girls, and for me atleast it’s hard to fake. Working on that.

But when you feel a girl could be worth it. Some potential, just push forward and do not hesitate. Hesitation kills the interaction.


And sometimes.. Just sometimes girls do a "move" which they think was obvious or workable with, but they are actually giving the worst passes is in football history. You just need to understand there that women suck with logistics lol

Working on the windows. And the worst part is if I do hesitate it’s not out of fear! lol, I just don’t always notice it in the moment.

Great points appreciate the insight.

What exactly is POB, noting. Here's my take.

Have you meet an authority figure? A Member of Parliament or a President?
Maybe you write to @Chase

Whenever a person ask, there's a threshold. It's like those Crash Bandicoot game. There's a limited time where that meter drops to zero.

You will curse that sales person, that member of Parliament. You will curse your President. But then when they meet you one on one, they hear your concerns and say what you want to hear. Then the best part is that they actually solve your problems.

You start feeling relieved.
That threshold meter is gone.
Best part, the authority person solve your problem.

I think that was a beautiful analogy, you should post that to give another, more visual aspect on windows. It really is like jumping hurdles. Jump too late or too early, the interaction falls and loses the race.

2) High level men also know how to defuse situation with humor or empathy or relate or banter that creates win win situations, while still retaining directness.

Not many can achieve all together but Chase is one of those guy. I know a few guys I met who are this but they are very rare and they really build people. My late brother was this. He was very brutal in banter in his early years but then his banter became 'camaraderie banter' over time, not 'destroying banter'.

When he died, there's more than 10 people who attend my home, on the day itself.

Sorry to hear about your brother.

I’ve kind of implemented this in a way. Guy’s rarely tool me or joke about me in an insulting way so I never really have a reason to tear others down. I try to keep everything positive, only when i’m being very obviously assailed do I get sour so yeah I get what you’re saying.

3) Females need continuity. Men need purpose.

4) Time doesn't exist. This is out there but hopefully someday, some people gets this.

z@c+

These are good insights. You have a really philosophical way of speaking, It’s different yet I still understand what you’re saying lol. Thanks

 

[moom]

I think it's really context dependent. If you're just one on one with a girl- at the higher caliber of fundamentals, aloofness can really hurt you. It's just about constantly having a pulse on her emotions which is easy if you're perceptive and adaptable. Harder if you're more mechanical. Is she into it as much as you are? Then no need to be aloof. Is she skeptical / a little aloof herself? Be slightly more aloof and employ body rocking, push & pull, etc.

In other situations, I'm often with my roommates social circle in which group I have the best fundamentals by far. So sometimes a hot girl will join us and while my friend hits on her, she'll keep looking and laughing my way. I play a mix of aloof and showing just enough interest (with lingering eye contact or some touch here and there), to where it drives them wild without me even having to do anything. I had this exact situation happen yesterday and the girl whispered in my ear "you're so sexy." It's a thing of being truly hard to please and starting off a little skeptical of everyone.

On a side note, why is being aloof a luxury to you? I love having my own intimate bubble with a woman and being aloof feels unnatural to me and mentally strenuous. Perhaps it's just my personality

 

[DonGately]

You can certainly behave in a manner that shows you are the prize, while also being sincere and warm [and funny and etc] with her. Those aren't opposites.

I think that's a reason I have more than my share of success with woman who have a higher SMV than I do, because they/I know I have a higher overall value. Most 21yrs have very little to offer other than looks and maybe brains.
So I'm not aloof, but they do know that I am operating on a higher level than they are -- at least for now.

 

[Rakehell]

I think it's really context dependent. If you're just one on one with a girl- at the higher caliber of fundamentals, aloofness can really hurt you. It's just about constantly having a pulse on her emotions which is easy if you're perceptive and adaptable. Harder if you're more mechanical. Is she into it as much as you are? Then no need to be aloof. Is she skeptical / a little aloof herself? Be slightly more aloof and employ body rocking, push & pull, etc.

This is a good insight context of the situation is an important aspect as well.

On a side note, why is being aloof a luxury to you? I love having my own intimate bubble with a woman and being aloof feels unnatural to me and mentally strenuous. Perhaps it's just my personality

Haha it’s not a luxury for me. I’m saying having the capacity to be aloof in itself is a luxury for others. As the threshold in which girls allow aloof behavior atleast from me is very small I see now how the title can be confusing.

You can certainly behave in a manner that shows you are the prize, while also being sincere and warm [and funny and etc] with her. Those aren't opposites.

I think that's a reason I have more than my share of success with woman who have a higher SMV than I do, because they/I know I have a higher overall value. Most 21yrs have very little to offer other than looks and maybe brains.
So I'm not aloof, but they do know that I am operating on a higher level than they are -- at least for now.

Honestly I look better physically than a majority of girls I run in to. There are a couple girls where it’s questionable but it’s not always distinguishable in those cases. One of my FB tells me all the time that I look better than her (which is wild to hear).

I feel like me acting like the prize sort of rubs it in their face in the wrong way. I’ve seen it work for other guy’s but when girls look at you and can say “I have nothing on this guy” I have to handle it really delicately. Not to say I act as if they’re the prize, but I have to make sure they don’t feel as if I’m too good for them.

 

[TomInHo]

Maybe I will but if I get #metood, you'll have to defend me in court because I can’t afford a lawyer.

But yeah I get you.

Can't promise I will be a good lawyer for your #metoo case but can offer you this instead...

Study and emulate Tom Brady's calibration skills and you'll stay a free man

 

[Alpha13SC]

Can't promise I will be a good lawyer for your #metoo case but can offer you this instead...

Study and emulate Tom Brady's calibration skills and you'll stay a free man

I have some new colleagues girls at work. This will be a good exercise for me.