The problems of pickup the way it's tought or "why people fail"

[Archivar]

The problems I see:

• The requirement of a good mood for pickup
• The requirement for practising different pickup stages when you always have to first find then approach girls to do that with. So you have to practise different stages to get laid in general and you cannot just practise the one you are at, you always have to start from zero, ie the approach. You have to tailor your approach to the situation. In my experience, you walk around in the city and you don't find any women who are by themseves and vaguely attractive for ages. Then there she is. And of course, she is in a hurry. And all of a sudden everything has to be in order, your voice, your mood(!), your movement. Pickup coaches seem to not apply their own material, as nobody can pull that off. This was the reason I went to direct game, because this is something I can at least remember.
• The requirement for good clothing style, which is never being defined with the excuse that everyone was different. Therefore, you can always blame your clothing style, because you will never know what looks good on you.
• The dismissal of your character for it to be molded into another character. Most methods do not take your unfair advantages into account and especially do they only vaguely address your unfair disadvantages.
• The lack of game with couples, the contradiction of "I am a man I choose" and "Oh she has a boyfriend I am gone". If the fact that some other guy was there before you and deters you from trying to sleep with her means that you are inferior to this other man. You feel that, because it's true. And subtle things like that make people become paralyzed without realizing why they are paralyzed. It's like in self defense "run away whenever you can" and "everyone could have a knife and kill you" and then they exercise. If you defend yourself, thinking "I should have run away" and "he could have a knife" makes you get killed or severely hurt. But people don't realize that, only when you apply it, you see the limiting beliefs that are put inside of you, sneaky as those teachings are designed.

 

[topcat]

nice one mate. so what in your opinion would make pickup better in the way it’s taught?

 

[Archivar]

@topcat What are your ideas then?

 

[Starboy]

Are you just jotting down some frustrations that you notice or experience personally? I totally understand it why you feel this way and yeah the game might look unfair because it seems you can't make any margin for error or you lose the girl or she loses interest in you.

But what realistically can you do about it other than work on the things you can manage and fix? Pickup was a system designed to teach men how to seduce women faster than the average man would. If you went the social circle route it would take months or maybe even years just to get a girl. The guys here didn't make the rules they just created a blueprint that you can follow that can help you get more results than the average joe. Is it all bullshit? idk I can't with confidence say it is because some guys have figured out a way to make it work for them. It could work out for me too depending on if I stick with it and keep trying new things and making adjustments. Same goes for you.

You are an older guy so maybe you don't have enough initial attraction to appeal to women right away with opening directly to younger women.

 

[Archivar]

I am writing down valid criticism that I experienced personally.
Yes, you, just like every other non-direct guy make game look impossible because you can't make any margin for error or you lose the girl or she loses interest in you.
That is also fueled by the mantra that the game had to be played in field. And by the fact that clubs are closed to the unpoisoned.

What you can do about it is create a priority list. Instead of saying: everything matters, say, this matters more than that. But for this, you need to have practised it in field.

Will women like being treated like what is written here? Of course they like most of it. Can men pull it off? Maybe 1 per cent.

Pickup was a system designed to teach men how to seduce women faster than the average man would by observing successful men.

It did not encompass the fact that you have to know how to teach.

The guys here didn't make the rules they created a product that you can actually not follow.

I don't say it's all bullshit. It could work out for me too depending on whether I remember it all at once and execute it perfectly without having a place to pracise it.

I failed doing that for 12+ years. So no, nobody will ever execute all of it.

Is it necessary to do all? I got laid without all of it.

The point is, when something is not working, each teacher requires students to change their whole game to theirs for theirs to work. Mixing both rarely works.

The solution could just be "watch your eye contact".

But I am convinced that the real issue is "how to fight your fears". And that topic is given way too little attention.

Starboy, I am not an older guy.

 

[TomInHo]

The problems I see:

• The requirement of a good mood for pickup
• The requirement of practising different stages when you always have to first find then approach girls to do that with. You walk around and don't find any for ages. Then all of a sudden everything has to be in order, your voice, your mood(!), your movement. Therefore you will never learn.
• The requirement for good clothing style, which is never being defined with the excuse that everyone was different.
• The dismissal of your character for it to be molded into another character. Most methods do not take your unfair advantages into account and especially do they only vaguely address your unfair disadvantages.
• The lack of game with couples, the contradiction of "I am a man I choose yada yada yada" and "Oh she has a boyfriend I am gone".

1. You don't need to be in a good mood to get chicks. I've gotten laid when I was clinically depressed. IMO skill trumps mood any day

2. Why not just try and not overthink it. Make approaches and implement minor tweaks as you learn. It will eventually all become second nature

3. Why would you not want to dress well as a man. Forget pickup. People in general will judge you based of your appearance alone. Think about it... who would you trust more if you're trying to buy a house, the real estate agent that looks like a bum that just rolled out of bed, or the agent that is well groomed, smells nice and wearing a nice suit?

4. This is like the be yourself argument. Bro, you are not yourself. If you were born in a different country, grew up with different friends and consumed alternative media, the YOU today would be drastically different.

5. No comment

I'm sorry my man, but if you came here to learn you have to be willing to put in the work for change. Complaining about the systems will get you nowhere fast

 

[Chase]

@Archivar,

Would you say you find you need to consciously remember the rules and tactics you use in social interaction, and that doing so is consistently a lot of work and very exhausting?

Would you also say that you find yourself engaging in many behaviors you have learned to do socially because if you do not do them people do not react to you the way you want them to?

Chase

 

[ulrich]

I am writing down valid criticism that I experienced personally.
Yes, you, just like every other non-direct guy make game look impossible because you can't make any margin for error or you lose the girl or she loses interest in you.

If you think you have to do it perfectly, you’re doing it wrong.

A good rule of thumb for life is that if you need one thing to be absolutely perfect to get the result you want, you are most likely ignoring another more important thing.

 

[Archivar]

I admit, I am not very trusting in myself. I need it to be written somewhere by someone else to think it can work. Which is why I want people to write what I hope to be true so I can say "someone else agreed, it must be accurate". I know it's stupid and wrong, but this is where I am at.

@Chase If your approach doesn't work and you cannot pinpoint why, you need to consciously remember the rules and tactics you use in social interaction and doing so is a lot of work and very exhausting. Given that women change, you also don't get any valuable feedback and after a while if you are more succesful than not, it will again become an automatism.

@uriel I agree, if you think you have to do it perfectly, you’re doing it wrong. But that is what is being shared throughout pickup literature. Sure, if you are vague in your expression, you are always right, if I was writing about pickup for a living, I would phrase it the same way.

 

[Chase]

@Archivar,

@Chase If your approach doesn't work and you cannot pinpoint why, you need to consciously remember the rules and tactics you use in social interaction and doing so is a lot of work and very exhausting. Given that women change, you also don't get any valuable feedback and after a while if you are more succesful than not, it will again become an automatism.

All right. Then yes, that is going to be very frustrating.

It's not clear from your post, so I will offer there are two possibilities here:

1. You've just spent too much time lately studying material, have filled your head with too much "tech" and "stuff", and it's time for a break from study. What you should do: go out into the field and let it all absorb into your subconscious; let what you're doing become an unconscious process. One the rules start to slip into the background and become natural, you will find you start doing the right things automatically. You will be in a conversation, for instance, and without even thinking about it will find yourself doing that thing you studied months back
   
   
2. It also might be possible you are somewhere on the autism spectrum, in which case this subconscious learning / automated adoption of social dynamics is not an option for you. If so... that is very tough. I've seen plenty such students over the years, and it is hit or miss whether they're able to get results from seduction material. More on that here. The best suggestion might be finding someone with a similar mental configuration who already has results you want, and figuring out how he learned and what he did to get where he is. If we have any forum members reading this who have had to learn this way, perhaps they can weigh in?

Hopefully it's the former, and you're simply burned out from too much study. If so, time away from study spent purely in the field should fix that for you, and let all the stuff you're trying to keep in mind sink into subconscious awareness (ROM) instead of running on the neural equivalent of RAM (short-term, active, conscious memory).

If it's the latter, the best bet is to find a guy whose brain works a similar way and is getting results, and learn from him. He should have methods and strategies more amenable to your style of learning.

Chase

 

[Starboy]

@Archivar,

1.You've just spent too much time lately studying material, have filled your head with too much "tech" and "stuff", and it's time for a break from study. What you should do: go out into the field and let it all absorb into your subconscious; let what you're doing become an unconscious process. One the rules start to slip into the background and become natural, you will find you start doing the right things automatically. You will be in a conversation, for instance, and without even thinking about it will find yourself doing that thing you studied months back

Hopefully it's the former, and you're simply burned out from too much study. If so, time away from study spent purely in the field should fix that for you, and let all the stuff you're trying to keep in mind sink into subconscious awareness (ROM) instead of running on the neural equivalent of RAM (short-term, active, conscious memory).

Does that include just coming on here to write frs or add entries in your journal? Or just refrain from reading more articles,threads,videos and game conversation while going out?

 

[Chase]

@Starboy,

When I was learning, I would periodically reach a kind of 'information overload' where even though I was going out 2-4 days per week and approaching loads, I found myself in my head more and more thinking about all this stuff I was picking up on forums. So I would just go cold turkey on forums for 4-12 weeks, do nothing but approach and stay off consciously reading or thinking about seduction, and let it all soak in.

After maybe 2-3 weeks of not being on forums, I'd find my mind was far less busy, and a few weeks after that I'd start having breakthroughs. Then I'd start doing stuff I thought I was coming up with on my own, I'd be having all these big improved results, and at last I'd break my forum hiatus and go back on to share. Often I'd find some of my "new breakthroughs" were actually stuff I'd picked up months earlier in my forum browsing; I'd just internalized them, started using them without even knowing what I was doing, and thought I'd come up with them till I reread an old post from someone containing them.

At least for me, this was a total forum absence when I did it. That was how it worked best.

No reports, no nothing.

(you can always write reports / journal entries and save them on your computer, then just upload later once your hiatus is over. The real thing is getting you away from the dialogue, from what other people are saying, others guys' advice, even guys with great stuff you respect, just so you can digest everything you've already taken in on your own and naturalize it)

Chase