The Really Feminine Ones Still Get Me

[Howell]

Hey man,

It'd probably depend on what you had in mind for a 'real relationship'.

Maybe you could start by asking yourself this: is there a difference between 'beta-like tendencies' and vulnerability? And if so, what place does vulnerability have in your relationships?

An interesting equation I recently heard about sexiness seems relevant here: Sexiness = possession + freedom.

In other words, when a woman is independent and free to walk away from you, yet she still chooses to be with you, we find that irresistible.

When this happens we experience a sort of mesmerized wonder about how they've allowed us to be so close, but we also worry that they might not do so forever. This type of relationship requires a degree of vulnerability.

Unfortunately, liking someone almost always makes us want to reduce their ability to survive without us. In the nicest way, we relentlessly want to erode the freedom of the person we love. Through this, we eventually kill the independence which had underpinned our desire from the outset (huge arguments every once in a while with the possibility of things actually ending rekindle things, however).

A lot of machismo seems founded on that fear: the fear of vulnerability. So this type of man actually puts on an act of being a man, which is in reality just a caricature of a man. And this man actually limits himself with the image of how he thinks he should be.

Out of love, we throw away the supports of our independent lives and knit it with another. This necessitates vulnerability and trust, which I don't think is wholly compatible with a desire to also be a girl's 'permanent Master and Commander'.

What I'm basically saying is this: I don't think what you're looking for is possible, as the really feminine women who still get to you most likely do so BECAUSE YOU WANT THEM TO, as that is a necessary condition for achieving real intimacy with them.

-Howell

 

[Mr.Rob]

My notch count is in the low triple digits

I tend to still have beta-like tendencies

Is anyone here good at that?

When I started in this whole seduction thing I figured that once you get to a certain proficiency or level with women you'll never have to worry about the whole women thing again.

I guess you don't lose your problems altogether you just upgrade them.

 

[Zoro]

I agree with Howell.

It sounds like you are concerned enough with this that you find it a WEAKNESS, rather than a phenomenon that happens over you.

I have been seeing a very feminine girl for almost almost 5 months now. We care about each other and we meet up basically just for sex.

When I first met her, I was blow away. She had so many desirable traits that are both uncommon and valuable to me, cute AND sexy, and feminine AND mentally stable as fuck (seriously shes so leveled headed its awesome)

I met her (and got intimate) the night before a 2 month country wide business trip, and at first I was thinking of her a lot. Thinking how can I keep this fire going for 2 months and then come back with her waiting for me? With all of this, I found myself writing poems about her, struggling like a mad man with a possessed hand to not text her and even called her (thank goodness she didnt pick up).

What saved me was realizing the man she thought I was and the man I knew I could be, and that I just was not aligned with. I was travelling across the country. There was much going on here that I should be focused on (including girls) and she would know that. What would be strange would be, being hung up on her. So I just focused on the awesome trip and texted her a little before I got home and invited her back out.

Bingo. And whenever I am enjoying her femininity I just take it all in and know that my masculinity helps to bring it out.

Perhaps maybe you don't realize that witnessing true femininity is in my opinion facilitated or at least enhanced by masculinity. You said it yourself, women are water. Rather than feeling like she is out of your league (judgement) feel and observe the energy and chemistry, "good" and "bad" and relish in that storm. Literally take a breath and feel what has overcome you.

In fact, after spending a lot of time with this girl, I was not surprised to have found she has flaws of her own. Just like every single human being. And there is beauty in that.

I would not fake indifference. I struggled with my own burning and churning desire for this girl for 2 months straight. In that time I conquered the temptation to act out emotional. And instead, I channeled that into my efforts both in life and interacting with her. Use that passion, but remember why women desire you. It is that rock that a masculine man becomes. Unmoved by the storm and containing power within as well. Let it come out when you ravishly fuck her or make her some breakfast or in a intense look burning with life. And then when alone channel that power into your day, as you workout, do business, relax, whatever. And remember to breathe.

You're only in your own way man,

But, you da bomb

j Wick ;}

 

[Rage]

Throughout the years I've seen a few different guys (many of them mentors or at least people I looked up to, respected a lot who had achieved a lot and were brilliant each in their own distinctive fields and styles) who weren’t players and hadn’t slept with tons of women in their life.

But each of them were in relationship with a beautiful incredibly attractive, feminine and supportive woman. And each of them acted as an alpha male/dominant male /like a guy with abundance in their relationships with these women.

Something that each of them had and that I think is very contributing, is that each of them had intense passion/projects that they would work on that were much bigger than themselves. One of these guys a pro jazz musician, another a pro powerlifter (2 fields that I’ve been in, but have seen other fellows in other industries that seem to fit this bill) and they were some of the best at their work. Consumed by it driven to master it and to excel at it, often lots of creative energies were present in their work as well.

I like sleeping with new women and like the thrill of it and the urge for it never quite goes away. But I know that even if I were to settle with women or commit for some time to a relationship (as I have a couple of times) I’d never make her my primary thing primary goal primary object for my attention and efforts.

Would always be my goals, my work, my projects outside myself, and she would either be extremely supportive and formative and believe in me a ton, or I wouldn’t be with her to begin with.

Each of these guys too; my theory is that having that obsessive connection and devotion to work gives them an abundance mentality of sort (one to rival that of guys that have slept with a lot of girls) because work and contribution to others tends to come before everything else for them. If wifey or girlfriend doesn’t like that, then it sucks and is too bad but then back to work and other women will find their way to him with time (other beautiful feminine women) who will be supportive and nurturing and a true gem to him in every way they can think to be.

Or not; much of the time these guys don’t give a shit anyway its back to work, back to work, back to work, purpose and fulfillment in their lives kind of depend on it.

Me too; these girls are my sweethearts, sweetest in the world, but from me it’s always a tight hug and a light kiss or two and “I loved our time together dear, but its back to work for me now”.

 

[Franco]

Drexel,

I'd say Chase is certainly a Master of what you would deem "closest" to this. =)

I agree with Howell in the sense that, these vulnerabilities are what cause the immense attraction in the first place. If she makes you feel vulnerable (in other words, she makes you "feel" in general), then that girl likely has qualities that appeal to who you are as a man. These are usually the types of women that you want to bring into relationships because those feelings are brought upon you from other women -- assuming you want longer-term relationships, of course.

What I think is most important is understanding where these emotions come from and how they work (i.e. "wow, this girl really gets me going. I recognize that she's an amazing human being, and I would like to keep her around, but I also need to recognize that her ability to bring out my emotions can effect my logical thinking; I need to stay logical in the way I deal with her concerns and her drama.")

I know exactly where you're coming from because my current girlfriend has done exactly the same thing with me. There was a period of time when I was getting pretty good with sleeping with women that I was starting to get worried that girls wouldn't make me be able to "fall in love" with them again because I couldn't muster up the same emotions that I used to have for girls when I was in a place of neediness. But that does change, as you have likely noticed, with higher quality girls. They'll be able to bring the feels out of you. When that happens, you just need to recognize it and then maintain a sense of "I can share my emotions with her" while simultaneously controlling those emotions. If you're in control of your emotions (which is very possible if you understand where they are coming from), then you can correctly handle yourself around the girl by using those emotions -- which likely include things such as "lust" and "desire" as well as "respect" -- to your advantage.

Chase has by far the best relationship advice I have ever seen on this website, and I know this because it's shared a lot of his thoughts/tactics with me, and all of them have been extremely successful in managing my own relationship(s). Feel free to PM me (or e-mail Chase) if you need any specific and/or situational insight here, bud. =)

- Franco

 

[Chase]

Drexel / others with this issue,

This is actually one of those "final mountains to climb" in seduction (well, depending on where you start out at; I'll explain below).

The "abundance mountain" is, in the West anyway, usually sort of laid out like:

• Women to meet and talk to are abundant
• Women to get out on dates are abundant
• Women to sleep with are abundant
• Women who will stick around in relationships with me are abundant
• HOT women to sleep with are abundant
• Hot women who will stick around in relationships with me are abundant
• Unicorn-quality girls who will sleep with me are abundant
• Unicorn-quality girls who will stick around in relationships with me are abundant

With some interchange on the "stick around" and "sleep with" ones, since some guys have an easier time sleeping with girls but a harder time getting them to stick around, while other guys have an easier time making girls want to stick around but a harder time sleeping with lots of them.

I had a breakup in San Diego in 2009 that made me aware of the differences; I was picking up and getting laid no problem, and with a lot of really cute girls (plus some 'meh' ones now and again thrown in for good measure... they can still be fun as well!), and I was always pretty much at "confidence 100%". But when I'd meet a girlfriend-quality unicorn girl, I'd get antsy, nervous, and become all-thumbs, and when I went through the breakup I was constantly fighting the urge to just become a complete and utter pussy and do whatever it took to hang onto this girl.

A big part of the reason I left SD was because I looked around and said "This city is hot girl hook up central, yet there are almost no women in it that I would actually want to date long-term." Even my ex had become a wild party girl that I would never date in a million years. The city is something of a 'corruptor' of girlfriend-quality girls; I noticed a LOT of pretty stable couples move to San Diego, and within 6 months or a year they would break up and the girl would be having the time of her life with stylish men who had expensive wardrobes and/or washboard abs.

It wasn't so much that no girlfriend-quality girls ended up in San Diego, so much as it was that when you're a kid in a candy store, like women are in that part of the world, even if you've got the most delicious lollipop in the entire store in your hand you probably want to grab a few more lollipops to lick too. Most of the girls who'd been unicorn-quality previously left those outworn ways behind soon into arrival (there's also some selection bias in terms of who's going to move to Southern California; most of the transplants who are there are there seeking sexy mates; the best bet for a girlfriend-caliber girl is actually to meet a local who isn't too into the going-out scene, but those girls are hard to meet in a town filled with transplants in search of no-strings fun and sexy adventures).

I think it's important to keep in mind that different environments place different constraints on your mating opportunities. e.g., if you're in the Deep South, you might have no problem finding wife-quality women, but maybe you just really want a slutty girl you can have a great time with and girls like that are impossible to find. So in the rare chance you run into one, well, all those unicorn girls are a dime a dozen, but this randy slutty girl is so unbelievably hot that you find yourself getting needy around her. (I've spent very little time in the Deep South, so just a generalization here - Mississippi lead the U.S. in STD transmission rates, so may well be there are plenty of dirty slutty girls in the Deep South after all!)

In a lot of places in California, especially, because the male:female ratio is so stacked in women's favor and because the males get jacked and make themselves cool and non-judgmental and sexy to better compete, it's very easy for women to lead a sexually liberated lifestyle, or slip into it if they weren't living that way when they arrived (there are so many sexually attractive options to women there that there isn't much incentive to live more conservatively). That can make for some real fun times, but it also means that the few girlfriend-caliber girls you meet feel like rare and precious stones to be jealously guarded and coveted from the fierce competition out there, and they end up doing funny things to your emotions.

There's actually some interesting data out there on how men's and women's mating strategies differ in different male:female ratio environments; in environments with large surpluses of males, like SoCal, men are actually a lot more prone to getting needy around women they want to keep around longer term. Basic supply and demand, really.

This is why travel is so important, to my mind. It's very difficult to achieve all levels of abundance in a single city. e.g., you can find a lot of really super high caliber girlfriend-quality girls with quite a bit of ease in much of Asia and Eastern Europe / Russia if your game is good and your fundamentals are on lock (that said, I've known plenty of guys to struggle in these places if they came in expecting a cake walk but couldn't pull at home). However, much harder to find really dirty, sexy, slutty, experienced girls in these places. Not quite as hard as finding beautiful, feminine, cheery women with low partner counts is in Southern California; yet each locale has its specializations.

I always considered "unicorn abundance" as the pinnacle, but I've also met guys in the interim who have had unicorn-quality girls falling all over them their entire lives, and they're sick of it, because all they want are casual, no-strings, experienced partners, and can't meet or hook up with these girls to save their lives. Every time I meet a guy like this I grill him to find out how high caliber his unicorns are, and they're almost always consistently netting these perfect specimens of woman and I'll be there shaking my head and grinning and saying "Gosh, that girl is beautiful, rich, and awesome; you're doing fantastic, man"... yet these guys themselves are over it, because they didn't want to wife some girl up, they just wanted to get laid and move from girl to girl, and are tired of breaking hearts.

Anyway, my general approach for anything I feel needy toward these days is to immediately say to myself "If I'm feeling needy, that means I feel like I don't have suitable replacement options, which means this is an area I need to address." Has been ridiculously useful in helping me target and rectify all manner of areas in my life where I was lower on options than I'd like to be (like unicorns in SoCal) and hadn't even realized it; as soon as you realize it, you can then go out and fix it.

Chase