the reason most men will never have success with women

strictlyincreasing

Space Monkey
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metalbird said:
The reason most men will never have success with women is due to lack of fundamentals. No amount of game will make up for being ugly/poor/dumb. And while there are measures a man can take to improve these things, a lot of them are environmentally/genetically determined to a large degree. It's really just survival of the fittest.
This is it exactly. I disagree with the OP and agree with this. With fundamentals, you either have them or you don't. Look at Hector's story. Back when he was a video game playing nerd with no social skills, he had ladies agreeing to be his girlfriend. Yet guys on here are in shape, with their lives, social skills and social life in order but can't get girls. How could Hector do it so easily before he knew anything about seduction or game? His natural fundamentals! It's the same for you, naturalmikey. You're a 9/10; we have all seen your photos mate so no need to be humble!

The frames that you listed in your opening post can't just be obtained by imagining or thinking about them. They come from actually experiencing and seeing them. It's the same thing with the abundance mentality One must see or feel abundance to have the mentality. Men with poor fundamentals are not the prize and do not have lots of options. Imagine having to do 30 approaches to get a solid (non flake) phone number. That's the reality for a few guys I know with poor fundamentals. That's at least 4 hours of work to get a date. It's likely more than 4 hours of course. But a guy like that is not going to feel like a prize. He is not going to feel like women want his validation. He is not going to feel like he is awesome. That's not because he has a negative mindset (who could do 30 approaches to get a date and have a negative mindset... you need a strong mentality) but because all the evidence that he is seeing in his daily life is telling him that he's not a prize, that the average woman does not want him and that he is not so special. It's not so difficult to figure out. Don't even get me started on Tinder. If you can organize a date in 30 minutes on Tinder, then that's another thing you have above the guy who has to do 30 approaches per date. Tinder and apps just separate the guys with good fundamentals from the guys with poor fundamentals, making the gap even larger.

It's not a crime to have excellent fundamentals like yours. But please do not go around blaming men for their troubles when most guys do not have your opportunities, primarily because of their fundamentals. You did work hard to make the most of your opportunities and learn and that's more than most guys can say. But there are a hundred guys with poor fundamentals who would love to have that opportunity, and their minds are not in the wrong place.
 

JacobPalmer

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strictlyincreasing said:
metalbird said:
The reason most men will never have success with women is due to lack of fundamentals. No amount of game will make up for being ugly/poor/dumb. And while there are measures a man can take to improve these things, a lot of them are environmentally/genetically determined to a large degree. It's really just survival of the fittest.
This is it exactly. I disagree with the OP and agree with this. With fundamentals, you either have them or you don't. Look at Hector's story. Back when he was a video game playing nerd with no social skills, he had ladies agreeing to be his girlfriend. Yet guys on here are in shape, with their lives, social skills and social life in order but can't get girls. How could Hector do it so easily before he knew anything about seduction or game? His natural fundamentals! It's the same for you, naturalmikey. You're a 9/10; we have all seen your photos mate so no need to be humble!

The frames that you listed in your opening post can't just be obtained by imagining or thinking about them. They come from actually experiencing and seeing them. It's the same thing with the abundance mentality One must see or feel abundance to have the mentality. Men with poor fundamentals are not the prize and do not have lots of options. Imagine having to do 30 approaches to get a solid (non flake) phone number. That's the reality for a few guys I know with poor fundamentals. That's at least 4 hours of work to get a date. It's likely more than 4 hours of course. But a guy like that is not going to feel like a prize. He is not going to feel like women want his validation. He is not going to feel like he is awesome. That's not because he has a negative mindset (who could do 30 approaches to get a date and have a negative mindset... you need a strong mentality) but because all the evidence that he is seeing in his daily life is telling him that he's not a prize, that the average woman does not want him and that he is not so special. It's not so difficult to figure out. Don't even get me started on Tinder. If you can organize a date in 30 minutes on Tinder, then that's another thing you have above the guy who has to do 30 approaches per date. Tinder and apps just separate the guys with good fundamentals from the guys with poor fundamentals, making the gap even larger.

It's not a crime to have excellent fundamentals like yours. But please do not go around blaming men for their troubles when most guys do not have your opportunities, primarily because of their fundamentals. You did work hard to make the most of your opportunities and learn and that's more than most guys can say. But there are a hundred guys with poor fundamentals who would love to have that opportunity, and their minds are not in the wrong place.
Then increase your fundamentals. Those opportunities you're talking about can be made if the person is willing to put in the work. Very few people just "have" fundamentals. Most of them work hard for them. They learn how to act, dress, eat properly, exercise properly, become smarter, more socially adept etc. And anyone can do that. So I disagree, you should blame men for their poor fundamentals, because that's the only way they are ever going to wake up and start increasing them.
 

naturalmikey

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inner game is the number one fundamental. without it leading, eye contact... is gonna be dificult. also i’m a 7/10. in my area i will never be the best looking guy at any venue. and i’m not the hottest match a girl is gonna get.
 

JacobPalmer

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naturalmikey said:
inner game is the number one fundamental. without it leading, eye contact... is gonna be dificult. also i’m a 7/10. in my area i will never be the best looking guy at any venue. and i’m not the hottest match a girl is gonna get.
Agreed, you have to know that you are the prize and come off in a cool, fun, calibrated way.
 

metalbird

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Inner game is important. It might even be the biggest piece of the pie for most guys. But it's still far from a majority of the equation. You have to consider fundamentals, demographics, how picky you are, what age you are, what age of girls you're looking for, and many other factors. Most guys that do triple digits get there by sticking into an environment that well suits them. I think even Chase has mentioned this before, that the key to big numbers is finding a niche.

For example, a huge, muscular black guy might do extremely well in the inner city or in a culturally diverse area. A nerdy, hipster guy might do well in a college town. My experience has been, your environment plays a bigger role than the effort you put into being sharp.

For me personally, this becomes an issue because there are other things in my life that are important to me besides success with women. I've made choices in the interest of my career or my goals that have put me at a big disadvantage, by forcing me to live in places or accept lifestyle choices that were very non-conducive to the women in the area.

The biggest example of this was joining the military; back when I had a big beard and long hair, women used to approach me -- in hipster venues, at least. Once I had to go clean shaven and military regulation hair length, I couldn't pull off the intelligent nerdy look anymore. Also, living on military bases in the middle of nowhere don't help your numbers chances. But that was something that I did for me, and my life.

Sometimes having inner game means doing what you got to do and not getting women. Thoughts?
 

strictlyincreasing

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naturalmikey said:
inner game is the number one fundamental. without it leading, eye contact... is gonna be dificult. also i’m a 7/10. in my area i will never be the best looking guy at any venue. and i’m not the hottest match a girl is gonna get.
6ft tall, white, full head of hair over the age of 35. This makes you minimum 8/10 regardless of anything else. Then you know a little about seduction and how to dress etc. This pushes you over 9/10. Be proud of it, man.

Inner game is a myth. It is obtained by actual experiences. If a guy has had 25 approaches with none hooking, his inner game will automatically be that women are tough and that life is hard. If his 3rd approach of the day hooks and 20 approaches in he has 5 dates set, he's going to have the mindsets that you listed. That's all the inner game is. It's using real success to have a success mindset. It is not lying to oneself. Then it all comes back to fundamentals. The only difference between the two guys in this hypothetical scenario could be the fundamentals. They cause the different results and then cause the different inner game.
 

Rain

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strictlyincreasing said:
naturalmikey said:
inner game is the number one fundamental. without it leading, eye contact... is gonna be dificult. also i’m a 7/10. in my area i will never be the best looking guy at any venue. and i’m not the hottest match a girl is gonna get.
6ft tall, white, full head of hair over the age of 35. This makes you minimum 8/10 regardless of anything else. Then you know a little about seduction and how to dress etc. This pushes you over 9/10. Be proud of it, man.
I thought there might be more to it than that, in terms of looks? eg face shape, body shape, skin condition, teeth condition can affect mens looks rating as opposed to just being 6ft and long hair and you're instantly a 7 or an 8?

Inner game is a myth. It is obtained by actual experiences. If a guy has had 25 approaches with none hooking, his inner game will automatically be that women are tough and that life is hard. If his 3rd approach of the day hooks and 20 approaches in he has 5 dates set, he's going to have the mindsets that you listed. That's all the inner game is. It's using real success to have a success mindset. It is not lying to oneself. Then it all comes back to fundamentals. The only difference between the two guys in this hypothetical scenario could be the fundamentals. They cause the different results and then cause the different inner game.
For me pesonally I do believe some of my fundamentals are stuck, but maybe not all of them. It is a struggle to have to do more approaches as you say.

Also have a read of this thread about looks and/or muscles vs game, in case it helps. It's locked but Chase and a few other highly ranked members have made posts.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15963

eg talks about how its good to try and do both fundamentals and game, but there are guys who only do good fundamentals with a little game and vice versa who can do very well with women if I understand the thread correctly. As well as muscles being only one part of fundamentals, not everything for example, or being tall. It's only one part of it. I'm not an expert just recycling what I've read by those with more experience than myself.
 

strictlyincreasing

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Rain said:
strictlyincreasing said:
naturalmikey said:
inner game is the number one fundamental. without it leading, eye contact... is gonna be dificult. also i’m a 7/10. in my area i will never be the best looking guy at any venue. and i’m not the hottest match a girl is gonna get.
6ft tall, white, full head of hair over the age of 35. This makes you minimum 8/10 regardless of anything else. Then you know a little about seduction and how to dress etc. This pushes you over 9/10. Be proud of it, man.
I thought there might be more to it than that, in terms of looks? eg face shape, body shape, skin condition, teeth condition can affect mens looks rating as opposed to just being 6ft and long hair and you're instantly a 7 or an 8?

Inner game is a myth. It is obtained by actual experiences. If a guy has had 25 approaches with none hooking, his inner game will automatically be that women are tough and that life is hard. If his 3rd approach of the day hooks and 20 approaches in he has 5 dates set, he's going to have the mindsets that you listed. That's all the inner game is. It's using real success to have a success mindset. It is not lying to oneself. Then it all comes back to fundamentals. The only difference between the two guys in this hypothetical scenario could be the fundamentals. They cause the different results and then cause the different inner game.
For me pesonally I do believe some of my fundamentals are stuck, but maybe not all of them. It is a struggle to have to do more approaches as you say.

Also have a read of this thread about looks and/or muscles vs game, in case it helps. It's locked but Chase and a few other highly ranked members have made posts.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15963

eg talks about how its good to try and do both fundamentals and game, but there are guys who only do good fundamentals with a little game and vice versa who can do very well with women if I understand the thread correctly. As well as muscles being only one part of fundamentals, not everything for example, or being tall. It's only one part of it. I'm not an expert just recycling what I've read by those with more experience than myself.
Those small things like teeth and body shape are worth less than 0.5 on the fundamentals scale. We have to look at men's fundamentals objectively, and try to do it through the eyes of a woman, not through the eyes of a man. Of course we men love facial structure, body shape etc. Women are less bothered and are more interested in his hair loss status, his height and his ethnic makeup. It's hard for us to recognize that.

Chase himself got some of his best results while overweight. That's how he got his first girlfriend and he even had a week of 3 lays when he was badly overweight. Similarly, Hector stopped working out and let his belly fat build up and had no difference in his results. The base fundamentals that I mentioned make up for 80% of your fundamentals and if you have all three, like naturalmikey has, then you get the full 80% i.e. you are 8/10 by default.
 

naturalmikey

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look at someone like jeremy soul. he has very good game. my results are going to be better looking girls. but he still is good. being good doesn’t mean dating way out of your league. dating slightly up is success. if you have stupid standards based on your looks then you won’t hace success. you really do level up with game. looks are probably the most important thing. but shit game will talk a dtf girl out of fucking your. looks determine your league. what you do in your league is up to you.
 

Sub-Zero

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strictlyincreasing said:
Rain said:
strictlyincreasing said:
naturalmikey said:
inner game is the number one fundamental. without it leading, eye contact... is gonna be dificult. also i’m a 7/10. in my area i will never be the best looking guy at any venue. and i’m not the hottest match a girl is gonna get.
6ft tall, white, full head of hair over the age of 35. This makes you minimum 8/10 regardless of anything else. Then you know a little about seduction and how to dress etc. This pushes you over 9/10. Be proud of it, man.
I thought there might be more to it than that, in terms of looks? eg face shape, body shape, skin condition, teeth condition can affect mens looks rating as opposed to just being 6ft and long hair and you're instantly a 7 or an 8?

Inner game is a myth. It is obtained by actual experiences. If a guy has had 25 approaches with none hooking, his inner game will automatically be that women are tough and that life is hard. If his 3rd approach of the day hooks and 20 approaches in he has 5 dates set, he's going to have the mindsets that you listed. That's all the inner game is. It's using real success to have a success mindset. It is not lying to oneself. Then it all comes back to fundamentals. The only difference between the two guys in this hypothetical scenario could be the fundamentals. They cause the different results and then cause the different inner game.
For me pesonally I do believe some of my fundamentals are stuck, but maybe not all of them. It is a struggle to have to do more approaches as you say.

Also have a read of this thread about looks and/or muscles vs game, in case it helps. It's locked but Chase and a few other highly ranked members have made posts.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15963

eg talks about how its good to try and do both fundamentals and game, but there are guys who only do good fundamentals with a little game and vice versa who can do very well with women if I understand the thread correctly. As well as muscles being only one part of fundamentals, not everything for example, or being tall. It's only one part of it. I'm not an expert just recycling what I've read by those with more experience than myself.
Those small things like teeth and body shape are worth less than 0.5 on the fundamentals scale. We have to look at men's fundamentals objectively, and try to do it through the eyes of a woman, not through the eyes of a man. Of course we men love facial structure, body shape etc. Women are less bothered and are more interested in his hair loss status, his height and his ethnic makeup. It's hard for us to recognize that.

Chase himself got some of his best results while overweight. That's how he got his first girlfriend and he even had a week of 3 lays when he was badly overweight. Similarly, Hector stopped working out and let his belly fat build up and had no difference in his results. The base fundamentals that I mentioned make up for 80% of your fundamentals and if you have all three, like naturalmikey has, then you get the full 80% i.e. you are 8/10 by default.

Where are you getting your information from? Your definition of fundamentals doesn’t sound anything like what Chase writes about at all.

Chase just made an article about a month ago about being slim and In shape. He says if you want to do well with women you need to be in shape. He wrote that in his own article.

You make it sound as if men need to be fat rather than I shape to get women lol

There are many men that are white with full heads of hair and are over 6ft, I’m sure all of them are not swimming in pussy.

So you never ever met a man who was the opposite of those 3 and got no girls?

If what you are saying is true why does this site even talk about fundamentals? Why isn’t the theme of pick up just the three things you say?

What you are stating are not fundamentals, it’s genetics.
 

naturalmikey

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he’s incel. they have no experience with women so they make assumptions them look for evidence to back them up and ignore any contrary information. the manosphere is full of guys like this. it’s called black pill. i read recently almost 1/3 of men are incel. these guys also hate women so much they often watch animated porn so they don’t have to masturbate to real women. probably about 20% are lookscel. basically guys with deformities that are too ugly for any girl. the majority are mentalcel. that means trauma or some kind of emotional issue makes them unable to be with women.
 

Sub-Zero

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He should snap out of it, if he’s gonna use this forum to get better with girls. I think he knows this, but for some reason he’s saying that all men need are a full head of hair, be white, and be over 6ft. I never heard anything like that in my life.

He’s gotta have some hope that what he’s saying is not true because why ask for advice if you don’t have those things then?

I think he said he had a mentor tell him this.

At one point he said it with such confidence I thought he knew some secret about fundamentals that I didn’t know about, then he told me those three things and I realized that it didn’t make any sense and I’m glad that I asked him what he meant about top-tier fundamentals.
 

naturalmikey

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yeah i mean all that stuff does matter. do i have advantages, sure. life isn’t fair. attaching yourself to negativity is just stupid.

anyway, here’s a excerpt from a set last night
Her: i’m sonia
Me: oh like sonia blade, you probably don’t know who that is
her: uh yeah mortal combat so are you like scorpion
me: yeah i’m the white scorpion, which i guess makes me sub zero which isn’t as cool

then i saw your name and it’s funny because you’re the black sub zero. as a joke, kinda making fun of jay z (the black brad pitt) i do sometimes refer to myself as the white denzel washington.
 

Sub-Zero

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Lmao

Scorpion isn’t white? What is he?

I made my name sub-zero because it was a play on my cold heart for these women, even though I still love them, I need to practice what I preach though because I’m not acting as cold as I should be. I also picked the name because cold hearted, cold person, some character that’s cold...... Sub-Zero!!

So yeah I’ll try to be more like my username.

Could you give me your opinion on this?

I’ve mentioned that attracting women was never and is not a problem for me, but it’s getting them to come out on dates and having sex with them.

But when you think about it, I don’t think sex is the problem I have at all. About 90% of girls I was alone with I slept with.

So my only problem is after I get the number I just can’t get the date for some reason, and you can’t get lays if you can’t get a chick out.

I’ve tired just texting only to set up a date, I’ve tried having text conversations, and I’ve tried even talking on the phone now to show myself more as a person, but nothing seems to be working at all.

That’s the point I’ve been stuck on for many years, I just looked up some comments I made 2 years ago with this same exact problem, back then I was in a relationship, so I wasn’t as active trying to get better, but now I’m back in the game dealing with the same shit.

So that’s the point I’m not succeeding with, getting them interested in seeing me, that’s through apps and cold approach.

When I used to work this one regular job, I slept with women with ease, and they were one of the most attractive there.

So anyway, that’s my sticking point and I’d like to know your thoughts on what I could do about that.

Thanks
 

naturalmikey

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try texting more for comfort then trying to set up the date. this doesn’t work. but it creates a funnel of comfortable girls. then stop texting them. a week later hit them all up on like a thursday at 7 pm. you’ll get bored girls fairly regularly like this. until you become more entitled this is a good way.
 

naturalmikey

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look at this. it’s hard to do. i had a really good interaction with this chick last night. she said we should exchange numbers. so i didn’t text her that night. i waited until the afternoon. then she took five hours. you know what it felt like waiting? awful. i like this girl. anyway when a girl likes a guy she’ll hide interest. you should do the same. as long as neither of you telegraph how much you like the other one you’ll stay in the tension. if i messaged her how great and pretty she is is break the tension and lose. you want her to break tension. leave her wondering if you like her. i have a crush. i’ve been thinking about her all day. but i’m not gonna let that fuck up my decision making.
 

naturalmikey

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i’ll add one more thing. i don’t know if this will work yet. but i’m planning on not messaging her until tomorrow. this is a sign of disinterest. basically a push. so tomorrow i plan on qualifying her on seeming cool and suggest meeting up. it’s a very exaggerated push pull.
 
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