The Truth of Game

[BlueK]

Hypothesis #1
IS GAME A MATTER OF JUST "YES OR NO APPROACH" in the same way we used to hook up with girls when we were kids?

1.1
Is the decision of the girl if she is going to hook up with you or not made in 5 seconds of the interaction????

1.2
Are the attraction PUA techniques like Push Pull, etc etc really effective for attracting girls? Or are we just overgaming a girl who are into us from the first 5 seconds of the interaction????

1.3 Are there really such thing as "Maybe girls" or are there only "Yes and No girls"? and we as PUA we are in a self ilusion and we do not underestand the female psychology as we said?????? Then, Is cold approach really about screening girls who are yes from the first 5 seconds of the approach?????

is pick up just this (in a simplified way to make my point)

PUA: hey you look cute
Girl: thank you, what is your name? ---> Yes Girl

PUA: hey you look cute
Girl: thank you, bye! --> No Girl

IS GAME REALLY EFFECTIVE OR IS GAME JUST OVERGAMING A GIRL WHO IS A YES GIRL FROM THE OPENER?????

ARE REALLY PUSH PULL AND OTHER DESINTEREST ATTRACTION TECHNIQUES EFFECTIVE TO BUILD VALUE, MAKE THE GIRL PERCIEVE YOU AS A HIGH VALUE MALE AND MAKE A GIRL COMPLIANCE AND QUALIFY TO YOU OR DO GIRLS KNOW THAT DISINTEREST TECHNIQUES CAN BE FAKED BY A BETA MALE OR A LOW VALUE MALE AND THEREFORE GIRLS DO NOT TAKE DECISION BASED ON THOSE PUA ATTRACTION TECHNIQUES? OR IS JUST AN ILUSION OF THE PUA THAT THRY ATTRACTED THE GIRLS WITH THOSE TECHNIQUES WHEN ACTUALLY AND REALLY THE GIRL WERE INTO HIM FROM THE FIRST IMPRESSION?

DO PUAs KNOW MORE PSYCHOLOGY THAN THE ACTUAL PSYCHOLOGISTS LIKE Jordan B Peterson who says PUAs are psychotic and says they are under self ilusions? Or do PUAs get more laids not because they know the "truth" but because they take more action than an average male????

I HAVE A QUESTION FOR YOU GUYS
HOW WOULD YOU PICK UP A GIRL WHO ARE VERY LOW COMPLIANCE FROM THE BEGINNING?? I MEAN YOU OPEN DIRECT AND SHE ACEPTS AND NOT REJECT YOU BUT SHE SAYS NOTHING ALTHOUGH LOOK AT YOU, THAN YOU ASK HER NAME AND SHE GIVES IT TO YOU AND THEN YOU ASK HER AN OPEN ENDED QUESTION LIKE WHAT DO YOU DO FOR FUN AND THEN SHE ANSWER "NOTHING" WITH VERY LOW TONE OF VOICE LIKE BORING AND NOTHING SEEMS TO HOOK HER INTEREST TO KEEP CONVERSATION GOING AND SHE ALSO NEVER ASKS YOU A QUESTION BACK, WITH THOSE GIRLS I END TRYING HARD TO VIBE WITH HER AND I START LOSING VALUE BECAUSE OF ME TRYING HARDER THAN HER.

I have started to think that when a girl do not ask me a question back or reciprocate in my intention. I should stop gaming her and plowing because she will probably be a flaky girl on the phone and a No girl. That is what happen with girls who do not invest in the interaction or seems difficult to do so no matter how good you run qualification and attraction material with her.
Most men will call these girls "BORING HOT GIRLS" but they are not boring. They are just not investing

 

[ulrich]

You drunk when you wrote this? Lol

Some teasing aside…

1.1
Is the decision of the girl if she is going to hook up with you or not made in 5 seconds of the interaction????

No.
But humans, animals and several AI algorithms have a natural bias toward giving higher weight to the first available information about a thing over all subsequent information… in other words, first impressions really matter and you can get disqualified from the race in the first 5 seconds.

So you can get a “NO” from the start, it’s pretty common.

You can also get a “YES” in just 5 seconds but those are pretty uncommon because women usually need more than just attraction to hook up.
Save from the very rare environments where a girls is actually encouraged to hook up (overseas bachelorette party, swinger club, etc..) you will need to provide several feelings including horniness, attraction and trust to this girl before being able to hook up with her.
Rarely will you be able to accomplish that in 5 seconds.

So normally you will only have two types of girls, NOs and MAYBEs.

1.2
Are the attraction PUA techniques like Push Pull, etc etc really effective for attracting girls? Or are we just overgaming a girl who are into us from the first 5 seconds of the interaction????

Yes and they are to be applied when needed.

Different techniques have different outcomes (increasing similarity, reducing attainability, touch escalation, etc…)
Understanding seduction implies knowing when a particular technique should be used and when not.

1.3 Are there really such thing as "Maybe girls" or are there only "Yes and No girls"? and we as PUA we are in a self ilusion and we do not underestand the female psychology as we said?????? Then, Is cold approach really about screening girls who are yes from the first 5 seconds of the approach?????

Any sufficiently complex subject is filled with beginners to intermediate practitioners who claim they have found a shortcut to success.
I’ve seen this in music, sports, business, health and even enlightenment.

This is part Dunning-Kruger effect and part business scheme.
While occasionally someone will discover a way to do something in a novel way with incredible results, 49 of 50 times you will find these are exaggerated claims.

The traffic light system (Green for YES, red for NO) is one of those terrible tools that promise incredible results and fail to deliver.

Go search for Chase thread on it. He has a lot to say about it and how it limits your potential.

DO PUAs KNOW MORE PSYCHOLOGY THAN THE ACTUAL PSYCHOLOGISTS LIKE Jordan B Peterson who says PUAs are psychotic and says they are under self ilusions? Or do PUAs get more laids not because they know the "truth" but because they take more action than an average male????

Was Jordan B Peterson a PUA at some point of his life?
While the guy is indeed very intelligent, you will be much better served for listening to both sides of an argument.

Do you expect a priest to know more about marriage than a married person?
Do you expect a sports commentator to know more about football than a football player?
This is the same.
Even if the guy knows a lot, his own position does not allow him to know and experience the entire truth.

Add it to the fact a big number of PUAs out there are posers… I would say more than 80%… this is important… if you make the mistake of judging seduction based on the lower members, you’re missing a big part of reality.

Yes, accomplished PUAs know more about female psychology by virtue of studying it in field.
The same way accomplished salesmen know more about persuasion than psychologists, bodybuilders know more about nutrition than nutritionists and racers know more about driving than engineers.
Academic and experiential knowledges are complementary.

 

[BlueK]

No.
But humans, animals and several AI algorithms have a natural bias toward giving higher weight to the first available information about a thing over all subsequent information… in other words, first impressions really matter and you can get disqualified from the race in the first 5 seconds.

Most of the information that girls need to make a decision if she would like to hook up with you or not is in 5 or 10 seconds, if you like her you can close her and will success but if you do not like her in that time you can spend 10 minutes plowing her and when you go for the number she says No.
Here is the thing: IF YOU ARE SOCIALLY OK AND NOT CREEPY, RARELY A GIRL WILL REJECT YOU EVEN WHEN SHE DOESNT HAVE INTENTION TO FUCK YOU, EVEN IF YOU ARE SOCIALLY OK SHE COULD GIVE YOU HER NUMBER BUT SHE DEEP DOWN KNOWS SHE WONT HOOK UP WITH YOU. WHY? BECAUSE SHE KNOWS THAT FROM VERY EARLY IN THE INTERACTION. A GIRL COULD EVEN BE SOCIAL, RECEPTIVE AND INVEST A LOT AND EVEN QUALIFY A LOT IN THE INTERACTION WITH YOU BUT KNOW SHE WILL NOT HOOK UP WITH YOU AND THE WORST PROBLEM FOR MEN IS THAT USUALLY GIRLS DO NOT LIKE TO SAY "HEY I TALK WITH YOU AND HAVE FUN AND THOSE STUFF BUT I AM NOT SEXUALLY INTERESTED IN YOU" THEY LIKE TO KEEP THE GAME GOING. GIRLS ARE EVIL, THEY LIKE TO MANIPULATE MALES AND GIVE FALSE POSITIVE AND CONFUSE GUYS. THAT STARTEGY OF GIRLS KEEP THE CONFUSION IN THE PUA COMMUNITY
THIS IS A TRUTH. IT IS MY OWN EXPERIENCE OF THOUSANDS OF GIRLS I HAVE APPROACHED. ALL THE GIRLS I HAVE FUCKED HAVE MADE ME THINK AGAIN AND I HAVE CONCLUDED THAT ALL OF THEM I OVERGAMED.
You also said that ai algorithm mostly give higher weight to the first avilable information, right?
If you are a girl and in 10 seconds you get 95% of probability that the male who is approaching you is low value male, would you base your decision on that 95% or with 5% that is high value male?????
It is common sense bro, if you are objetive enough about reality and what actually happen in the field.
Also most of the infield videos I have seen about mostly every famous PUA finishing in success the girls were on from the opener.

I am pretty sure that the girls you have picked up in cold approach have been all YES GIRLS from the opener. The confusion is that there are two types of YES GIRLS as Roger Curry (MODE ONE) say:
YES GIRLS for you that are SLUT in general
YES GIRLS for you that are NOT SLUT in general (who have the madonna side).

If you make a pull in 2 min in the middle of the street that would be a YES GIRL for you that is also a Slut (and not care about being easy etc...)

A girl you had to be talking to her for 10 min to close her was a YES GIRL from the first 10 seconds but you will have to give her plausible deniability by talking to her for a more longer time than just 10 seconds (if not she would feel easy) and the PUA think that this kind of girls are MAYBE, They arent Maybe, They are secretly YES or NO (this is the worst because if you are not wise and not know about this, you could go with a phone number thinking that she is a maybe when the girl secretly knows she is a NO and will flake) I pick this cues in the 10 seconds based on how sexually welcomed I am in the approach (sometimes I need 10 seconds, sometimes i need 30 seconds since many girls are expert in giving false positive to keep getting validation

 

[Skills]

Most of the information that girls need to make a decision if she would like to hook up with you or not is in 5 or 10 seconds, if you like her you can close her and will success but if you do not like her in that time you can spend 10 minutes plowing her and when you go for the number she says No.
Here is the thing: IF YOU ARE SOCIALLY OK AND NOT CREEPY, RARELY A GIRL WILL REJECT YOU EVEN WHEN SHE DOESNT HAVE INTENTION TO FUCK YOU, EVEN IF YOU ARE SOCIALLY OK SHE COULD GIVE YOU HER NUMBER BUT SHE DEEP DOWN KNOWS SHE WONT HOOK UP WITH YOU. WHY? BECAUSE SHE KNOWS THAT FROM VERY EARLY IN THE INTERACTION. A GIRL COULD EVEN BE SOCIAL, RECEPTIVE AND INVEST A LOT AND EVEN QUALIFY A LOT IN THE INTERACTION WITH YOU BUT KNOW SHE WILL NOT HOOK UP WITH YOU AND THE WORST PROBLEM FOR MEN IS THAT USUALLY GIRLS DO NOT LIKE TO SAY "HEY I TALK WITH YOU AND HAVE FUN AND THOSE STUFF BUT I AM NOT SEXUALLY INTERESTED IN YOU" THEY LIKE TO KEEP THE GAME GOING. GIRLS ARE EVIL, THEY LIKE TO MANIPULATE MALES AND GIVE FALSE POSITIVE AND CONFUSE GUYS. THAT STARTEGY OF GIRLS KEEP THE CONFUSION IN THE PUA COMMUNITY
THIS IS A TRUTH. IT IS MY OWN EXPERIENCE OF THOUSANDS OF GIRLS I HAVE APPROACHED. ALL THE GIRLS I HAVE FUCKED HAVE MADE ME THINK AGAIN AND I HAVE CONCLUDED THAT ALL OF THEM I OVERGAMED.
You also said that ai algorithm mostly give higher weight to the first avilable information, right?
If you are a girl and in 10 seconds you get 95% of probability that the male who is approaching you is low value male, would you base your decision on that 95% or with 5% that is high value male?????
It is common sense bro, if you are objetive enough about reality and what actually happen in the field.
Also most of the infield videos I have seen about mostly every famous PUA finishing in success the girls were on from the opener.

I am pretty sure that the girls you have picked up in cold approach have been all YES GIRLS from the opener. The confusion is that there are two types of YES GIRLS as Roger Curry (MODE ONE) say:
YES GIRLS for you that are SLUT in general
YES GIRLS for you that are NOT SLUT in general (who have the madonna side).

If you make a pull in 2 min in the middle of the street that would be a YES GIRL for you that is also a Slut (and not care about being easy etc...)

A girl you had to be talking to her for 10 min to close her was a YES GIRL from the first 10 seconds but you will have to give her plausible deniability by talking to her for a more longer time than just 10 seconds (if not she would feel easy) and the PUA think that this kind of girls are MAYBE, They arent Maybe, They are secretly YES or NO (this is the worst because if you are not wise and not know about this, you could go with a phone number thinking that she is a maybe when the girl secretly knows she is a NO and will flake) I pick this cues in the 10 seconds based on how sexually welcomed I am in the approach (sometimes I need 10 seconds, sometimes i need 30 seconds since many girls are expert in giving false positive to keep getting validation

Total kj women make get an initial attraction based on fundamental but that just buy you 10 seconds you still have to either not fuck it up or convert

 

[ulrich]

@BlueK, dude. You have no fucking idea what you’re talking about.
Also, what’s the fucking point of asking questions if you’re not going to listen to the answers?

You already made your mind with loser mentality and dumb conclusions. You may very well be a lost cause.

FYI, I have women said to me “I never thought we will end up together” a dozen of times already.
Just because you can’t imagine it, it doesn’t mean it’s not possible.

Humble and open your mind or get the fuck out.

 

[BlueK]

Total kj get the fuck out with your none sense

If you disagree it is totally ok. That is only my conclusions after a lot of practice in the field.

But let me know something

What would you do with a girl who do not invest at all in the interaction but she do not reject you either??

Most guys will excuse saying that the the hot girl was just too boring (she wasnt, she was just non compliant)

 

[BlueK]

@BlueK, dude. You have no fucking idea what you’re talking about.
Also, what’s the fucking point of asking questions if you’re not going to listen to the answers?

You already made your mind with loser mentality and dumb conclusions. You may very well be a lost cause.

FYI, I have women said to me “I never thought we will end up together” a dozen of times already.
Just because you can’t imagine it, it doesn’t mean it’s not possible.

Humble and open your mind or get the fuck ou

The title of the thread is The truth of Game, I wasnt asking anything. These are my dilemmas, you can relate, agree or disagree.


I have already heaed that phrase also dude from women but the diference between you and me is that I never believed. Why? This is literally the thought that happen in my mind when girls say something like that: and why the hell were you coming with me to my house?. Wake up dude, be aware that the phrase itself is a plausible deniability because she had sex with you too fast

 

[Skills]

If you disagree it is totally ok. That is only my conclusions after a lot of practice in the field.

But let me know something

What would you do with a girl who do not invest at all in the interaction but she do not reject you either??

Most guys will excuse saying that the the hot girl was just too boring (she wasnt, she was just non compliant)

I edited, i thought you were trolling, cause from time to time we get some trolls... The truth is women get that 10 second initial attraction, guys that are good with women or above average in social skills when they convert and then bang them and interview the women get the "i knew i wanted to fuck you since the moment i laid eyes on you" from some women as backward rationalizations from them (i hear this myself from some women)... But the truth is that you also get the "i was going to fuck him till his open his mouth".... even though they get an innitial attraction what you call the greens you still need to not fuck it up.... The maybes (yellows) still require some convincing/influence to conver to green..... The reds (lot more work but not impossible, i done it) require shit tons of work to convert to yellow so you can get a shot at it...I know a lot of community even close seducers friends of mine swear this is not possible, but we had a huge debate about this, that cost of razor jack somewhere in the forum...

 

[ulrich]

The title of the thread is The truth of Game, I wasnt asking anything. These are my dilemmas, you can relate, agree or disagree.


I have already heaed that phrase also dude from women but the diference between you and me is that I never believed. Why? This is literally the thought that happen in my mind when girls say something like that: and why the hell were you coming with me to my house?. Wake up dude, be aware that the phrase itself is a plausible deniability because she had sex with you too fast

Oh dude, you have so much to learn about women and people in general.

 

[BlueK]

@Skills
Most of the time that I spoil a set is because I end trying hard trying to attract a girl with PUA attraction techniques like push pull lines, teasing lines etc because the girl is non compliance amd conversation doesnt flow
But when the girl is into me from the first 10 seconds of the interaction it is dificult for me to spoil the set because conversation flow easily without me needing to take charge of the conversation

So my question is then,
How are you gonna spoil a YES GIRL???
you have to be really socially uncalibrated for that and i dont think an uncalibrated guy get the green light anyways

 

[BlueK]

You can also get a “YES” in just 5 seconds but those are pretty uncommon because women usually need more than just attraction to hook up.

That is wrong dude,
Attraction is all you need to get tons of girls
Why I say it?
Because High Value Males are RARE AS FUCK. They are only 1% of men, and they mostly are difficult to get for girls because the high status environment where those men are.
If you are a girl and a high value man approach you in the street with perfect fundamentals and all charismatic but edgy and challenging at the same time (I mean an ideal high value male). Would you hesitate to give your number just because you do not have enough trust or connection yet??
Girls dreams to find or being approached by that ideal high value male.
Girls do not only dream, girls are hungry for them
The idea of trust and connection is stupid and beta and blue pill

Do you know the UMP guys.
Alex says in one of his videos that he lost thousands of girls using the model of Mystery Method of Connection after Attraction and He says everything changed when he instead started to sexualize instead of focusing on having en emotional connection with the girl. This are indicators that we are overexaggerating the need for connection before sex in a girl, his results are indicators that girls do not care to much about connection but they care a lot about having the high value man.

In fact guys, let's be honest:
girls give away with the high value male without game

 

[ulrich]

That is wrong dude,
Attraction is all you need to get tons of girls
Why I say it?
Because High Value Males are RARE AS FUCK. They are only 1% of men, and they mostly are difficult to get for girls because the high status environment where those men are.
If you are a girl and a high value man approach you in the street with perfect fundamentals and all charismatic but edgy and challenging at the same time (I mean an ideal high value male). Would you hesitate to give your number just because you do not have enough trust or connection yet??
Girls dreams to find or being approached by that ideal high value male.
Girls do not only dream, girls are hungry for them
The idea of trust and connection is stupid and beta and blue pill

Do you know the UMP guys.
Alex says in one of his videos that he lost thousands of girls using the model of Mystery Method of Connection after Attraction and He says everything changed when he instead started to sexualize instead of focusing on having en emotional connection with the girl. This are indicators that we are overexaggerating the need for connection before sex in a girl, his results are indicators that girls do not care to much about connection but they care a lot about having the high value man.

In fact guys, let's be honest:
girls give away with the high value male without game

1) You’re greatly overestimating the effect of attraction.

2) You’re reducing man/woman dynamics to either hook up or not. Do you really think women only think about how hooking up?
How do girls you get to hookup on the get go end up feeling? Do you even care?

3) You keep on bringing examples from “experts” which highly suggest you are not even experienced enough to reach these kind of conclusions by yourself.

4) You are overloaded with “red pill” arguments like hypergamy is everything and women are evil.
Any man with sufficient time on field knows that those don’t work as the bitter losers in internet claim.

5) Your arguments depend of nebulous concepts like “high-value men”.

Conclusion:
You’re just a beginner in serious Dunning-Kruger stage, it’s so transparent.
Do yourself a favor and stop talking passionately about things you don’t understand yet. You’re embarrassing yourself.

 

[Gunwitch]

Conclusion:
You’re just a beginner in serious Dunning-Kruger stage, it’s so transparent.

Been doing this stuff 20 years. Yep, it's a phase PUA go through and come out the other side of and actually start learning pickup, or they languish in hookup game not knowing the difference.

You wanna learn real game, go check out some articles on this site/girlschase. Stop all the Mode one and all that lamebrain simpleton shit. Some of the best in the game write on girlschase articles at the moment, free to read..

Gun

 

[Gunwitch]

@BlueK stop with the all caps stuff it's annoying to read.

You wanna emphasis a sentence of something it's one thing, but walls of it is hard to read.


Gun

 

[Teevster]

Alex says in one of his videos that he lost thousands of girls using the model of Mystery Method of Connection after Attraction and He says everything changed when he instead started to sexualize instead of focusing on having en emotional connection with the girl.

Some people realized this in 2008 Wink wink.

 

[BlueK]

@uriel dude stop blaming me if you do not even know me. This is a forum

1) Yes I do. I think attraction per se gets you a lot of girls without efforts.

2) Girls are hungry to hook up with a high value male (1%) who are rare to find among so many losers, so they will not hesitate to hook up with those.
2.1) Despite I think the dynamic of man/women is a matter of yes or no. Girl prefer to lose the high value male than being juged as slut, so they will act like a maybe until enough plausible deniability is given (time but the higer value you are the less time as plausible denuability she needs to fuck you).

3) I bring those experienced players because they are confirmation of what i also agree from my own experience since you probably will believe more in the guy than in me.

4) The red pill is something that forced me to realize since it hit me strong in the face for having a nice attitude and moral attitude toward life, until i realize girls do not care about the moral

5) I underestand clearly what a high value is. It is not a nebulous concept.

 

[BlueK]

Been doing this stuff 20 years. Yep, it's a phase PUA go through and come out the other side of and actually start learning pickup, or they languish in hookup game not knowing the difference.

You wanna learn real game, go check out some articles on this site/girlschase. Stop all the Mode one and all that lamebrain simpleton shit. Some of the best in the game write on girlschase articles at the moment, free to read..

Gun

Gunwitch with all the respect you deserve but I have read all your shit a lot of times and you are one of those you proclaim how important are looks and other stuff before approaching the girl. When a girl doesnt fucking like you, no matter what you say you wont turn that girl a Ye, no matter how much negative stimulation you display they will not care and they will not be interested anyways.

Also you say that being sexual will give you tons of things to say and that it fixes the problem of not knowing what to say but i think that is partially true because do not necesarly give you right things to say

 

[ulrich]

@BlueK If you think attraction and high value are “the truth of seduction”, you’re just trapped in beginner’s level.

We get guys like you in the forum every month.
Bitter, resentful and convinced that they discovered that all this make no sense.

Of course it makes no sense!! You’re quoting common misconceptions and marketing tactics as your arguments.

Get out and meet some women. You’re lacking experience.

 

[BlueK]

@BlueK If you think attraction and high value are “the truth of seduction”, you’re just trapped in beginner’s level.

We get guys like you in the forum every month.
Bitter, resentful and convinced that they discovered that all this make no sense.

Of course it makes no sense!! You’re quoting common misconceptions and marketing tactics as your arguments.

Get out and meet some women. You’re lacking experience.

Bro you are certainly trying to disapprove me. I dont know why but maybe you are protecting the work of chase.

But tell me how do you build value or create attraction in a girl who is not interested in you after the first 10 seconds of the approach??
I would really like to hear the answer to underestand your game

 

[Gunwitch]

But tell me how do you build value or create attraction in a girl who is not interested in you after the first 10 seconds of the approach??
I would really like to hear the answer to underestand your game

You obviously haven't read, or don't understand ALL my stuff.

In the first 10 seconds, even 30 seconds or a minute or more of the approach, she should be completely misdirected and inside her mind thinking about something you've noticed about her, or said about the environment. Then you can use proper hook material that will land.

If she is judging your looks at all it's because you either look so far out of the realm of someone who "should be" talking to her style and vibe wise, OR you've opened too directly and forced her to make a knee jerk snap "yes or no" judgment.

She should be in her head, not even sizing you up, or you aren't doing pickup, you are doing hookup.

Also nobody who finds this stuff is 350 lbs wondering what the problem is with women, or a male model chicks dig at first sight, cause they both know what's what.

This has come up before with several different guys, you wanna learn here? Or bash "protecting Chase", say pickup doesn't work and undermine the basic topic here?

Can keep this thread open for instruction purposes, but I don't wanna see you making any more of these topics again, or you look like a troll agitator of some kind. This is a pickup forum, not an "fuck pickup, chicks either want you or not!" forum. You're calling dozens, hell hundreds of experiences guys liars (not just Chase), as a stranger, do you get that? It's rude/trolling, be it cause you don't understand, or haven't tried the materials, or you're doing it to troll.

I don't care for any argument about it, or also you can just get kicked. I don't like basketball, you don't see me on basketball forums.

Go get someplace else where you fit in, if you think picking up a woman and fucking her, who isn't rabidly in to your looks isn't possible.


Gun