The "white advantage" in dating : is it eternal or coincidental?

[lux7]

Until a few years ago I had never thought of the "white advantage".

After many experiences, flings and travels, I eventually realized that, all considered, it's true: around the world, somewhere less somewhere else (much) more, there's a certain "baseline advantage" in being white (disclaimer: don't misread that with an entitlement mentality or excuse for your failures or what you can achieve ) .

I'm thinking about it again now after reading and commenting on how strong "race" can actually affect your sexual value on William's article : https://www.girlschase.com/content/every ... ting-girls.

But the point I'd like to discuss here is whether or not this is a given or if the "white advantage" is more related to the Western dominance in terms of culture / economics / armies as William says.

It made me think.


WHY (SIMPLISTICALLY) YES

Well, it's easy to say no?
The west is richer, gives a better quality of life, western armies control the world, western culture is the strongest..

And it makes sense.
It might be.
Yet at the same time it might be too easy an explanation with too many exceptions:



WHY NOT

Japan is as much advanced as the West. Much more advanced than most western Countries for that matter and Japanese armies and language held sway around the region for a long time.
Were Japanese men then considered "sexier" around Asia?
I don't know back then, but certainly they are not today...

Or: are Chinese men being considered sexier as their rising clout brought them to the second biggest economy in the world, armies, language and culture in tow?
Doesn't seem so...

Also if you look at the variances in the west, it doesn't seem that white men are sexy because of wallet and spending power.
What are the countries usually considered the sexiest?
Italy, France and partially Spain, right?
And especially Italy and Spain are far from the exemplary rich western countries with powerful armies. Spain has more the image of the "easy life" and Italy never even had a strong colonial empire at all (though yes a thriving culture).
Yet Italians and French men are considered among the sexiest overall.



THEN... WHY?

So the question is.. Is the "white man advantage" because of historical reasons, cultural reasons or is it because, on average, white men tend to look good without any relation to time periods and culture?
Is "white" the sweetspot between "manliness" and "refined culture"?
Or a combination of all of them.
Or something else.. ?

 

[Ree]

I like posts like this...not politically correct...but true...
I live in kenya...i dont know why...but yes for men...just being white gives u an advantage... More than being mexican or chinese...i think if u r white people just assume u r rich...
Strangely enuff for women this aint true.....white women are not seen as being as fly as black ,mexican or ethiopian women

To answer ur question....i think culture
Because i dont dispute that white guyz look good..but look at someone like trey songz...fly as fuck..right?..
But here in kenya ive seen fat out of shape white men,cleaning the floor with this trey song look alikes
Most girls imagine how the white man will be their saviour...take them to paris...buy them a yatch...etc

 

[GeneralFap]

Yes, white men have it easier than other races. They dominate in central & south America, Africa, and Asia. They also have it easier in online dating.

 

[ray_zorse]

I would say it is purely for historical reasons, since in the last 500 years or more, most of the world's empires (French, Dutch, British, German, Russian, American) involved colonizing less technologically advanced cultures and were run from Europe or America, thus Europeans were considered powerful and thus attractive, compared with local people or non-European immigrants from other places. Although most former colonies are now independent and the world is a lot more democratic, still a lot of power is concentrated with white people, and also the cultural meme "white people are powerful" propagates by itself whether or not it remains true. I guess back in the middle ages white people led a pretty primitive hand-to-mouth life whereas Muslims were in charge of the world's empires and had the technology and culture, thus were regarded as more powerful and attractive then, until this was displaced by Europeans with the gradual decline of Muslim influence (e.g. the slow decay of the Ottoman empire in the centuries leading to WW1) and rise of European sailing power. As to being white itself it's basically a genetic defect, a pimple on evolution... blue eyes are definitely caused by a recessive gene (as is my hearing disability, sickle cell anemia and many other genetic defects), and white skin is basically a way for the body to get enough vitamin A in sunlight-poor arctic regions where the increased risk of skin cancer wasn't a huge disadvantage.
Ray

 

[lux7]

Muslims were in charge of the world's empires and had the technology and culture, thus were regarded as more powerful and attractive then,
Ray

Chinese had too, but maybe you're right, maybe Arabs were regarded as very attractive.
Maybe not though, or maybe not as much as whites nowadays and that's the whole point, we don't know for sure.

It might also be a case of both historical situation plus the white men being on average attractive.
So maybe if -or once- the Asians will take over the baton as leading economies/armies/cultures, they might have a harder time in also inheriting the throne for most sought after "race" compared to either white or, say, "blacks" and "arabs" because, again, Japan is a world class country and while interestingly Japanese women are sought after in SE Asia, Japanese men are not.

 

[ray_zorse]

Ruminating on this further I can offer some more theories although completely unsupported by evidence and may offend some people. Europe was known to have a very small population of humans, I think I read a figure of 50,000 individuals in Cro-Magnon times... so food was relatively abundant (per capita that is) but a large physical body was an advantage in moving faster through this large territory to find food and mates. Whereas in Asia I would say the population was much higher and food relatively scarce. Anecdotal evidence from the North Korean famine suggests that larger people require more food and die first in times of famine, thus a smaller physical body was an advantage. Evolution has actually evolved a smaller body in North Korea IN OUR LIFETIMES and there are numerous other examples of this, for example certain species of Tuna today are less than half the average weight and length they were a century ago, as they have evolved to evade the dragnets used in modern factory fishing. Very interesting. I also believe that recessive characteristics such as blue eyes became fixed more quickly in European populations because of the smaller mate pool and consequent inbreeding. Anyway as to your comment, I believe if JP had won WW2 their men would be regarded as very powerful and attractive. They were fucking hardcore then, and this may still be there under the surface. I watched a film about a spy and espionage ring in China during the JP occupation and the JP men were very powerful and brutal in it.
Ray

 

[Ree]

I believe if JP had won WW2 their men would be regarded as very powerful and attractive. They were fucking hardcore then, and this may still be there under the surface. I watched a film about a spy and espionage ring in China during the JP occupation and the JP men were very powerful and brutal in it.
Ray

Hm...i think this thing was embeeded before world war 2...think about the missionaries..the explorers and the colonialists...all white....
Think about all the africans,native americans..mayans...who were awed by the white man with his superior medicine,superior weopons and superior organisation......
Even before world war 2 most of the world was speaking....english(the white mans language).....the british empire was so big it was said the sun never sets on the british empire...evrything u say is tru except the suggestion that world war 2 was the great determinant
..

 

[Drck]

I'm white so it is sort of difficult to look at white people, but IMO white people are overall more organized, they have certain structure, certain approach to problem solving, they take individuals with more respect and so forth, which in general creates more respects.

So before we start spitting flames and calling others racists, lets think about it for a second. I'm putting white people in quote ('white') as I consider all people equal, regardless of color:

* Societal structure? School system, social system? Healthcare system? Ability to organize and solve problems by different teams on multiple levels? Probably most advanced in 'white' culture

* Work, taxes? Retirement? May sound silly, but think about it, it is certain security, it creates a certain power for the nation. You study hard, so you gain knowledge. You use your knowledge to create some product or offer service. Others will purchase it, you get paid money so you have decent life, purchase products of other people. You have to pay taxes so government have money to protect you, to build infrastructure, and to pay you money once you are old, sick and unable to work... That is a HUGE power and it is rather common in 'white' nations. Not all societies have that privilege though, go visit poor(er) countries, you will not find such security and organization there, and these countries are rather weak...

* Science, technological advances? All great scientific discoveries in the past 100 years? 500 years, maybe more? Electronics, motors, machines, astronomy, quantum mechanics, genetics...? Probably not surprising that 'whites' are among the greatest scientists, and most scientists are 'white'. Here, just to make it clear, it is not meant that 'whites' have higher IQ or are smarter than non-whites. I believe that there is highly intelligent people among all cultures and colors, however (IMO) the great accomplishments are rather due to the aforementioned overall societal structure, e.g. ability to reach and excel in high education. Many other cultures simply don't have the privilege because they lack the underlying organization - there are many highly intelligent people who simply don't get the opportunity to excel in certain scientific field...

* Wars? Ability to conquer others with relative ease (see aggression and expansion of both World Wars)...? Better and highly lethal weapons (tanks, guns, semi-automatic weapons, bombers, ...)? Probably not surprising that 'whites' are also leading on a certain level. Again, as above, the education and overall societal structure plays quite important role. If you for example take skilled Japanese Samurai who is practicing martial arts for 40 years and stand him against average person, the likelihood that the Samurai will win in close fight is pretty much 100%. On the other hand, if you account for ability to obtain a sophisticated weapon (say gun) and provide some training for say 2-4 weeks, chances are quite high that any average person with little training will win over best trained Samurai... He would probably take down even couple of Samurais before they get closer to him...

* Law, justice? Complex judicial system, different branches of government? Ability to deal with crime? Reasonable punishment? Philosophy? Probably not surprising that it is most advanced in 'white' society. Even in USA we still have constitution that most people still respect. The Constitution is here for simple reason: So USA doesn't become Banana Republic where one does as he wishes without any consequence... it is just unfortunate that current leaders don't see it that way...

* Relative ease to become rich? Well, work hard, save money, educate yourself and invest - and you can do relatively well. It is probably much easier in USA and in Europe where 'whites' are more predominant than in other countries...


All of these combined are simply signs of certain power, certain respect, certain strength and dominance... You see, if you eliminate the 'white color', you will just end up with certain behavior of group of people. The color is not really that important as the overall behavior...

So if you take the above, it gives you certain perception of 'white' people... Perhaps 'whites' are more organized as the whole group... which means more advanced in societal structure... which means more powerful, more aggressive, more conquering... which means more respected and more dominant... which means more attractive, at least from female's perspective...

IMO it is rather the overall "more dominant behavior" than the color - certain colors are only associated with certain kind of behaviors...

If you look at it from that perspective, it is fairly easy to say that it is better to live in society where 'whites' are predominant - you will get better opportunities to educate yourself, better opportunities for financial satisfaction, better opportunities to live in safer environment, better opportunities to enjoy life while older and sicker, better opportunities to raise family and so forth... At the same time, again, IT IS NOT THE 'WHITES' - it is rather the BEHAVIOR that whites adopted over long period of time...

 

[lux7]

Anyway as to your comment, I believe if JP had won WW2 their men would be regarded as very powerful and attractive. They were fucking hardcore then, and this may still be there under the surface. I watched a film about a spy and espionage ring in China during the JP occupation and the JP men were very powerful and brutal in it.
Ray

Hmm maybe, again though we don't know that.

Japan was already considered a major power before WW2 and still is considered a major power today -not so much so military maybe, but in everything else yes-.

It might be connected to the fact that indeed Japanese women DO are regarded as beautiful around Asia -SE Asia at least- but not men.

 

[lux7]

Hm...i think this thing was embeeded before world war 2...think about the missionaries..the explorers and the colonialists...all white....
Think about all the africans,native americans..mayans...who were awed by the white man with his superior medicine,superior weopons and superior organisation......
Even before world war 2 most of the world was speaking....english(the white mans language).....the british empire was so big it was said the sun never sets on the british empire...evrything u say is tru except the suggestion that world war 2 was the great determinant
..

True, from renaissance on and further accelerated with the industrial revolution the "West" just moved ahead.

If anything, WW2 accelerated decolonization and pitched 2 major superpowers against each other, Russia and USA to later only leave USA standing alone.

Interesting for our topic though that American men didn't seem to gain any "sexy advantage" over other "white" men from other western nations (let's not even consider Russia as everyone knew how fucked up things were behind the iron curtain .

 

[Ree]

I'm white so it is sort of difficult to look at white people, but IMO white people are overall more organized, they have certain structure, certain approach to problem solving, they take individuals with more respect and so forth, which in general creates more respects.

So before we start spitting flames and calling others racists, lets think about it for a second. I'm putting white people in quote ('white') as I consider all people equal, regardless of color:

* Societal structure? School system, social system? Healthcare system? Ability to organize and solve problems by different teams on multiple levels? Probably most advanced in 'white' culture

* Work, taxes? Retirement? May sound silly, but think about it, it is certain security, it creates a certain power for the nation. You study hard, so you gain knowledge. You use your knowledge to create some product or offer service. Others will purchase it, you get paid money so you have decent life, purchase products of other people. You have to pay taxes so government have money to protect you, to build infrastructure, and to pay you money once you are old, sick and unable to work... That is a HUGE power and it is rather common in 'white' nations. Not all societies have that privilege though, go visit poor(er) countries, you will not find such security and organization there, and these countries are rather weak...

* Science, technological advances? All great scientific discoveries in the past 100 years? 500 years, maybe more? Electronics, motors, machines, astronomy, quantum mechanics, genetics...? Probably not surprising that 'whites' are among the greatest scientists, and most scientists are 'white'. Here, just to make it clear, it is not meant that 'whites' have higher IQ or are smarter than non-whites. I believe that there is highly intelligent people among all cultures and colors, however (IMO) the great accomplishments are rather due to the aforementioned overall societal structure, e.g. ability to reach and excel in high education. Many other cultures simply don't have the privilege because they lack the underlying organization - there are many highly intelligent people who simply don't get the opportunity to excel in certain scientific field...

* Wars? Ability to conquer others with relative ease (see aggression and expansion of both World Wars)...? Better and highly lethal weapons (tanks, guns, semi-automatic weapons, bombers, ...)? Probably not surprising that 'whites' are also leading on a certain level. Again, as above, the education and overall societal structure plays quite important role. If you for example take skilled Japanese Samurai who is practicing martial arts for 40 years and stand him against average person, the likelihood that the Samurai will win in close fight is pretty much 100%. On the other hand, if you account for ability to obtain a sophisticated weapon (say gun) and provide some training for say 2-4 weeks, chances are quite high that any average person with little training will win over best trained Samurai... He would probably take down even couple of Samurais before they get closer to him...

* Law, justice? Complex judicial system, different branches of government? Ability to deal with crime? Reasonable punishment? Philosophy? Probably not surprising that it is most advanced in 'white' society. Even in USA we still have constitution that most people still respect. The Constitution is here for simple reason: So USA doesn't become Banana Republic where one does as he wishes without any consequence... it is just unfortunate that current leaders don't see it that way...

* Relative ease to become rich? Well, work hard, save money, educate yourself and invest - and you can do relatively well. It is probably much easier in USA and in Europe where 'whites' are more predominant than in other countries...


All of these combined are simply signs of certain power, certain respect, certain strength and dominance... You see, if you eliminate the 'white color', you will just end up with certain behavior of group of people. The color is not really that important as the overall behavior...

So if you take the above, it gives you certain perception of 'white' people... Perhaps 'whites' are more organized as the whole group... which means more advanced in societal structure... which means more powerful, more aggressive, more conquering... which means more respected and more dominant... which means more attractive, at least from female's perspective...

IMO it is rather the overall "more dominant behavior" than the color - certain colors are only associated with certain kind of behaviors...

If you look at it from that perspective, it is fairly easy to say that it is better to live in society where 'whites' are predominant - you will get better opportunities to educate yourself, better opportunities for financial satisfaction, better opportunities to live in safer environment, better opportunities to enjoy life while older and sicker, better opportunities to raise family and so forth... At the same time, again, IT IS NOT THE 'WHITES' - it is rather the BEHAVIOR that whites adopted over long period of time...

Hey...ever read hitlers mein kampf?
It has a lot of truth that ppl would consider racist...but i guess the truth is the truth

 

[Drck]

The problem with truth is that people usually take some part of it and connect it with their ideology: A is true and B is true, therefore C must be true too. Or at least let's make it seem that way... But, that is not always the case...

People talk a lot about equality. But are we really equal? Say a guy who is 20 years old works hard, saves money, studies hard... He invests money and effort into education. He invests into stock or real estate. He can afford better healthcare, pay for better doctors... After 20-25 years of hard work he has build a decent life for himself. Another guy, his friend, has different approach. He just takes it easy, he moves from job to job, doesn't really save anything, doesn't invest into anything... After 20 years he is broke, he still can't pay his bills on time...

So is there any equality? There is none. It is not racism when I say that white people are better organized than others, they created better educational and social system, better economy, better technology, better and more lethal weapons than others... So that gives 'whites' some advantage as far as perception of overall dominance...

So it is probably understandable that non-white people have some adverse reaction towards whites, because nobody wants to feel lesser than the other person. But again, IMO the underlying issue is not really the color - it is rather the behavior...

But the color goes the other way too, say if we compare black muscular/athletic guy who is happy and outgoing with some white socially awkward nerd who can't keep eye contact, it is probably safe to say that any normal girl would chose the black guy... So again, it is not that much about the color, rather about the behavior of that particular guy or group of people...

--------------

So if a girl is normal intelligence and from good background, and she wants to have a good life, safe family where she can raise her children... who will she chose?

1. Guy A who is well educated, have some career and makes good money, is neat and clean, takes good care of himself, has a life to live for, cares about other people, is open minded and respectful...

2. Guy B who is sloppy, can't keep any job, didn't really get much education, has filthy jeans falling down to his knees, perhaps sells drugs to make some living, could care less about others...

IMO it is pretty clear who she will want to be with, and if anybody thinks that Guy B is somehow sexy, and will somehow amaze her with sexy smiles and dominant looks... well, think again and very hard... The truth is many times much simpler than it appears...

Note that if you imagined that the Guy A is 'white', you are simply a racist

 

[Ree]

@drck
Equality cannot be achieved because of the simple fact that we r not all equal
...i dont understand why this is such a touchy subject for poeple tho

 

[Drck]

IMO the issue is more complex, we have to consider society as a whole, different cultures, as well as families and individuals...

Say Guy A is raised in environment that values certain things, for example education, work, material things (car, house, money,...). He is raised believing that family has certain traditional values: his mom and dad got married, they have children, and they stay together the whole life. He knows he's got to get good education, good job, he's got to save money, buy a house, save for retirement and so forth, that's what's everybody doing. He gets home from school and he has to study because his parents leads him to it. He is thought to be responsible for his life, he's thought the value of money, he is thought to respect law and cops, he is thought to respect work and employer and so forth. When he sees that most of the families in that culture he knows are behaving similarly, this will simply becomes his mindset. It's a norm for him.

Guy B is not so fortunate. His parents are divorced, perhaps he never met his dad. He doesn't know many people who study after school, and everybody he knows considers school as just something he's got to go to, without any effort. He doesn't know any materialistic values, people around him don't really have much money, nobody teaches him to be responsible for anything. He also sees that most people around him are behaving that way - lots of divorces, poverty, crime... This will simply become his mindset, norm...

So now these two guys meet. The Guy B sees that Guy A has much better life, better education, house, car, jobs, perhaps more stable family.... So there may be lots of different reactions - envy, anger, he develops lower self esteem because nobody feels good around people who are "better" ... He of course wants to have the same like the other guy, he wants to be equal, so he applies for the sane jobs, he tries to date the same quality girls, he tries to buy the same house like the other guy... But he is always rejected... So that leads to more anger, his self esteem is shot again, he feels that he simply can't compete with the other guy, who is different color...

So perhaps there is true root of racism. When Guy A compares himself to Guy B, perhaps Guy A perceives himself as better than Guy B. And perhaps Guy B just developed lower self esteem thus he really doesn't like the Guy A, as he just can't accept the reality that Guy A simply has little bit better life...

So people who understand that Guy A has it somehow better than Guy B want to solve it. They want to take something away from A and give it to B so they remove the poverty. The want to put B on more respecting positions, they want to give B more houses, more education, more money and so forth.

This is however not optimal approach, because we are just redistributing wealth without changing behavior of individuals and families. People in group B don't understand that they have to work hard in order to propel themselves further. They don't understand that they need to respect laws, respect educational system, respect family values... They just get used to getting money from government and they think it is justified because the Guys A always have it better, no matter what they do.... They simply developed victim mentality because they naturally want to be equal, yet they don't understand that the equality is really in behavior, in effort to propel yourself forward, in accepting responsibility for own behavior, in certain societal and perhaps family values - and not just in materialistic thinking, not just in comparing levels of poverty...

So who wants to admit that he or she is wrong? Nobody. It's always fault of the others, the others are always to be blamed for our faults...

This is of course just a generalization, there are plenty of exception in each group.

 

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

Being a guy from a minority group (Indian), I think that the white guy dating advantage is overhyped on a lot of online forums and by dating studies. I have found that tons of American women go crazy for guys like Zayn Malik who is brown like me and as someone who somewhat looks like him, I have never felt at a disadvantage compared to my white friends.

The problem with all of this is that the guys from minority groups that struggle, Asian and Indian in particular, are just ugly low value guys who blame everything on race. You have short and overweight Asian guys that say being Asian is holding them back, completely ignoring the short and overweight part of it. I feel that white guys have the privilege of accepting responsibility because they cannot blame race or pull the race card while minorities (especially Asian and Indian) men can pull the card anytime they struggle.

You're not dating blonde bombshells as a short Indian guy, not even short white guys get to date them most of the time! Now as a tall Indian guy, I have had no issues pulling those kinds of women. There are COUNTLESS white guys who are tall and decent looking yet do not get laid at all.

Now race might matter when it comes to location as I have said in the past but seriously ask yourself, how many higher value guys of minority groups do you meet that are struggling? The races that struggle are ones like Asians and Indians but that is because those races are naturally submissive and spineless in the western world, so they struggle because of it.

I have never felt at a disadvantage because of my race. For anyone that wants to whine about their race, tell me more, because chances are if you were white it would hardly help you that much at all.

 

[lux7]

Kenshin, of course you can find countless examples that prove the contrary -Keanu Reeves has no problem with women as well I suppose-, it's only a factor among many other factors, which is the main reason why people shouldn't use it as an excuse.

And of course in majority white countries the "advantage" is limited: everyone's white there .

This post however was not another race related one -albeit on the positive side in this case- to talk about "how big the advantage is" -very small in the west, (much) bigger anywhere else more or less- and "why white people built the currently dominant civilization", which is what has been discussed the most, it was more: WHY is the advantage there.

And is it going to "end" once eventually some other "ethnic group" will pick up the baton of leading countries in the world, is it going to lessen (a bit) or will it stay untouched?

That was the main question.


Edit:
also, off topic, I wouldn't use the "blonde bomshell" as the top of pile example to see who is doing good with women as it's nothing more than a polarizing type of woman.
Many top men aren't interested in them, and many down the pyramid, while they might gladly be with them, they also might prefer something different.

 

[lux7]

BTW, since not many talked about that, my idea is that the "advantage" is part fundamental and part historical.

FUNDEMENTAL
Such as, white men tend to be:

1. Considered physically attractive compared to other ethnic groups (non flat nose and presence of beard seem to be big ones from the feedback I got, all exclusively non-scientific though .
Physical attributes preferences change over time, but many others are pretty constant.

2. Rate high in (perceived) "menliness" and "aggressiveness", though lower than black africans in "aggressiveness" but still high;

3. Rate high in (perceived) intelligence and "being cultivated" and thanks to 2. that doesn't bring geeky drawbacks with it.
Two and Three combined makes the white men the most suited ethnic group for romantic dreams.
ie.: the "man in white horse" is usually white;

HISTORICAL
Yet they are now also strongly reaping the benefits of the western civilization being on top and offering high standards of living.

That's the "passport" side of it and though far from being the only reason, I believe it's a good part of the "advantage", though it's hard to quantify.

Having fundamental and historical coming together, and combined with global media which helps spread these ideas and combined with global travel which allows people to move wherever they want, it means white guys are probably enjoying by far the best conditions they could ever get.

It will change, probably, and it will lessen once the west won't be the major leading force in the world, but it won't probably completely disappear because some of the "fundementals" will still be there.



And of course, that's only my take on it .

 

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

All in all, this thread was a waste of time and just some pseudo-white supremacy thread.

Hot blondes ARE the beauty standard and the most desired women on the planet.

 

[lux7]

So lemme see, you say white blondes ARE the beauty standard (edit: and you're actually right, they are, I was thinking about the bombshell obsession thread and thought how I myself didn't dig that but otherwise blonde women do seem to be the most common preference) but asking -and trying to find out- WHY whites hold the beauty standard is racist?

What you see is often a reflection of how you think (and who you are), but if you don't like it just don't take part, and don't pollute / derail a legitimate question with moral attacks and political labels.

Nothing personal, all the best

 

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

no, this thread was quite literally a waste of time

this forum is about getting laid and learning how to do better with women, not some knock off of a sociology forum. Your smileys are corny as well dude, and yes hot blondes are the most desired, that is just fact.