The "white advantage" in dating : is it eternal or coincidental?

[lux7]

This forum is about a lot of things just take a better look around (or think before writing, "life after college" is your own thread).

You seem very active in "ethnicity based" threads, and flaming elsewhere too, don't take things personally man, you won't find PC in a thread on why whites hold an advantage in dating.
And if you don't agree with what you read, then give your point of view, respectfully, OR stop going off topic and wasting time .

I certainly will, not replying to your off topics slowly descending into cheap personal attacks, bye.

 

[Tim Iron]

Hot blondes and White males are the beauty standard? lol...

 

[Tim Iron]

Well in my own country, white men are not seen as being sexy, they are seen as MAGAs (sugar daddy, somebody they can swindle/trick for money) by ladies. This is because a lot of white men here are working in big companies that pay them well... so a lot of girls try to trick them to get money...

I like posts like this...not politically correct...but true...
I live in kenya...i dont know why...but yes for men...just being white gives u an advantage... More than being mexican or chinese...i think if u r white people just assume u r rich...
Strangely enuff for women this aint true.....white women are not seen as being as fly as black ,mexican or ethiopian women

To answer ur question....i think culture
Because i dont dispute that white guyz look good..but look at someone like trey songz...fly as fuck..right?..
But here in kenya ive seen fat out of shape white men,cleaning the floor with this trey song look alikes
Most girls imagine how the white man will be their saviour...take them to paris...buy them a yatch...etc

 

[Chase]

Japan went through a phase in the 1990s where black men were hugely popular - more so than white men.

Sweden went through one in the mid-2000s (might still be going through it for all I know) where black men were at a big advantage for getting laid over white men. I had a few black acquaintances who moved there for a while after discovering how easy it was for them to get laid.

In Vietnam, Chinese and Korean men are nearly as desired as white men, and the women there devote almost as much time to learning these languages. Korean men are quite popular in Japan right now, and Japanese and Korean men are popular in the Philippines.

These things tend to be culturally influenced. For instance, when blacks were popular in Japan in the 1990s, it was due to the surging popularity of gangsta rap. And Koreans caught on in popularity among Asians as Korean dramas began to reach more Asian markets and Asian women started to swoon for dreamy male Korean stars.

Similarly, Asian women are not as keen on white men now as they were a decade ago, because in many countries 'white man' has stopped automatically equaling 'suave, mysterious, moneyed man from a foreign land' in their heads and begun to equal 'nerdy loser English teacher who couldn't find a job or get laid in his home country' instead. I've had numerous women in Asia tell me "I would NEVER have dated you if you were an English teacher" or "At first I was afraid you were an English teacher." (that said, Asian girls do still like white guys a whole lot, as of right now)

In places with lots of sex tourism, the appeal of foreign men gradually diminishes. For instance, Thailand and the Ukraine both saw women go from thrilled with Western white men to skeptical of them as sex tourists as their homegrown sex tourism industry grew. You can still meet women in these places and get a bonus for being a foreign white man, but it also comes mixed with a heavy dose of skepticism and her wondering if you're just there for the credit card pussy.

Everything from hair to body type is largely culturally influenced - e.g., compare the ideal female body type in Renaissance Europe (chubby, small breasts, round face) or Upper Paleolithic Eurasia (rotund figure, massive breasts) with European beauty standards of today (slim, moderate-to-large breasts, though not hangers like Upper Paleolithic man liked). Big hair was trendy in the 1980s, then went out of style. Even pubic hair follows fashion trends; in the 1960s, a woman would never dream of shaving her pubic hair - it was the mark of her femininity. By the 1980s, women trimmed it, so they could look good in bikinis. By the 2000s, bald pussies were the order of the day. Now we're starting to see landing strips and other trimmed pubic hair make a comeback.

Race/skin color preferences are just another culturally influenced like/dislike.

If you want an experiment: create a Hollywood blockbuster with a super sexy Indian man, or East Asian man, or whoever as the lead, and make it a great, sexy film, and get it in front of women the world over. Then watch what happens to the popularity of men from that guy's ethnic background immediately following the film. I think everyone here knows what happens next.

Chase

 

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

I've already been warned by Franco lately so instead of attacking OP and his passive aggressive use of smileys, I am going to attack this thread, it is pointless.

The threads I am involved in talk more about application rather than theories and all of this bizarre ideas which are quite frankly a waste of time for most. It is one thing to discuss how you can get hot blondes as an Indian guy, it is another to make a pseudo-white supremacy thread and blow your horn as a white guy. Since you felt the need to dig up my thread OP, I posted it because it was about meeting women and partying (a way to meet women).

I'll give my opinion on this as I have on countless race threads, yes it matters but unless we're talking about how we can do something about our chances then we are wasting our time. As an Indian guy, I have had tremendous success with hot blondes (who are the standard of American beauty btw) in Arizona. I have never felt that I was once at a disadvantage compared to my white friends.

White guys do better because they have it all going for them outside of the race. Their parents let them experiment with dating and women, they are generally taller due to better diets, they have little to no constraints from family so they can chase women, and they are generally wealthier. That is now changing as blacks are getting richer in the USA, Asians are becoming more assimilated, and other minority groups are coming up. I have seen countless beautiful white girls with guys of minority groups.

The reason you see white guys do better is because their cultures allowed the time for chasing women across the world and getting laid, not because they were necessarily white. A guy of a minority group in similar circumstances will have the same luck.

 

[lux7]

I've already been warned by Franco lately so instead of attacking OP and his passive aggressive use of smileys, I am going to attack this thread, it is pointless.

Too bad you needed a warning, but good you finally got it how a constructive conversation works.

White guys do better because they have it all going for them outside of the race. Their parents let them experiment with dating and women, they are generally taller due to better diets, they have little to no constraints from family so they can chase women, and they are generally wealthier. That is now changing as blacks are getting richer in the USA, Asians are becoming more assimilated, and other minority groups are coming up. I have seen countless beautiful white girls with guys of minority groups.

The reason you see white guys do better is because their cultures allowed the time for chasing women across the world and getting laid, not because they were necessarily white. A guy of a minority group in similar circumstances will have the same luck.

Agree, what you mention is certainly part of the equation indeed.

Not sure the taller thing is only because of diet though and I don't believe it's all outside of race, I just can see tremendous boost in many areas of the world just because I'm white.

As much as I'd like to say it's because of mostly other factors, well... I actually know by comparing my results in Europe that just being white is a huge part of that (again, of course only one attribute out of many many more and not just the only reason: plenty of whites here who fall in love with a girl out to swindle him, or come here to pay girls or maybe even come here to fuck but can't manage etc. etc.. ) .

 

[lux7]

I agree with a lot of points, Chase, but also disagree with lots of them, and it's coming from repeated personal experience.

Below the points:

Japan ...

Sweden ...

In Vietnam..

Chase, the first two examples you mention are typical "enclaves": you can find periods and countries where this or that is more popular, and as far as I know there might MANY of them, but that doesn't change the overall trend, which seem to be otherwise rather clear in the present era: considering the whole world over white men seem to have a (slight or not, depending on location) bonus.

The second two examples, as you say yourself: "nearly as", confirming white men are on top even there.

In places with lots of sex tourism, the appeal of foreign men gradually diminishes. For instance,

Lots of sex tourism brings a lot of "disgusting old men", as a girl explained me how they call them in Vietnam -funny she only dated white men though- and it diminishes the appeal, and YET, it also proves the overall point as even there white men still have an advantage in spite of the disgusting old (often white) men.

Indeed I have to disagree with the following you write:

Thailand and the Ukraine...

I've been in Thailand, several times, Bangkok is the biggest city with LOTS of whites and LOTS of prostitution, YET you don't just get a bonus, you get a... HUGE bonus.

I banged hookers -plural- there without paying (two LR written about it).

I COULD NOT do it in Europe, or at least NOWHERE as easily, or at least it happened only once, maybe -not 100% sure she was a hooker and it was Eastern Europe too- in spite I spent there 20x more time.

From the size of the boost I could experience, if anything, the "white man advantage" is actually underestimated in this part of the world -and I have nothing to gain in saying so, if anything, I wish I saw the attraction I saw only out of skills-.

Also been in Ukraine BTW, twice, and even there you get a sizable boost even though not compared to anything in Asia, in Ukraine it's purely passport based.

Everything from hair to body type is largely culturally influenced ...

Race/skin color preferences are just another culturally influenced like/dislike.

Not everything, Chase.

Preferences are (largely) influenced, like you say, as most things, but not radically changed to the core.

For example, unluckily for us short guys, height is always good, and just check the tallest nations... White nations monopolize the first positions.

And about hair, well... Pubic hair is only a small corollary part of it.
When were and where are, say, bald men or bald women attractive?
Tell me, I'll gladly bring my bald head there to see it first hand .

Just as a last example, even though I have no data about it, at least in present times beard seem to be another rather constant one as it seems to be appreciated wherever I go (and which is something white men most often have -and very visible- while it's lacking in other ethnical groups ).

 

[Chase]

Lucifer-

A few quick points:

Chase, the first two examples you mention are typical "enclaves": you can find periods and countries where this or that is more popular, and as far as I know there might MANY of them, but that doesn't change the overall trend, which seem to be otherwise rather clear in the present era: considering the whole world over white men seem to have a (slight or not, depending on location) bonus.

Well, if we’re talking about women’s preferences, it makes sense to talk about variation in it. If we’re talking about some kind of global hegemony, even a few enclaves refute such a theory.

The reason I’m sharing other examples here is to point out how and why preferences like this get established; since these are smaller examples, it’s easy to point to the sources of them, which lets us figure out why the larger patterns (like white guys getting bonus points in XYZ other countries) might occur.

've been in Thailand, several times, Bangkok is the biggest city with LOTS of whites and LOTS of prostitution, YET you don't just get a bonus, you get a... HUGE bonus.

I banged hookers -plural- there without paying (two LR written about it).

There’s a culture in Thailand of pay or long-term. Thai women expect that if you want something short-term, you will pay for it. If you don’t pay, it’s because you want something long-term. Prostitutes will often let you not pay if they think there’s a chance you will take them touring around the country (as many men do, including attractive young foreign men), or that you may fall for them and start sending them a monthly stipend to not hook (which of course, they will continue to do… but these girls tend to get a lot of foreign men sending them fat paychecks, and not just old potbellied dudes).

I don’t recall if I’ve read your reports, so these may have just been working girls you met off-hours. But in any event, it’s entirely possible to sleep with prostitutes off-hours in any country, regardless of your race, because prostitutes also have sex simply because they want to have sex, and not simply because every sexual transaction need be a financial one too.

I COULD NOT do it in Europe, or at least NOWHERE as easily, or at least it happened only once, maybe -not 100% sure she was a hooker and it was Eastern Europe too- in spite I spent there 20x more time.

From the size of the boost I could experience, if anything, the "white man advantage" is actually underestimated in this part of the world -and I have nothing to gain in saying so, if anything, I wish I saw the attraction I saw only out of skills-.

Mind your sample sizes and control methods. I’ve had various friends tell me stories about picking up hookers without paying in Europe, and not all of these friends were white.

You’re drawing conclusions about the preferences of entire populations by examining your own results. This is the same thing the guys who get hung up on race and blame it for their faults do too.

Also been in Ukraine BTW, twice, and even there you get a sizable boost even though not compared to anything in Asia, in Ukraine it's purely passport based.

Careful now – you’re pushing a racial agenda here, but this sounds like pure and simple foreigner bonus. I’ve had plenty of black American friends tell me Ukraine was a candyland for them – that’s foreigner bonus, not racial.

For example, unluckily for us short guys, height is always good, and just check the tallest nations... White nations monopolize the first positions.

Recent phenomenon. Until maybe 150 years ago, the tallest men in the world were in Africa, and Europeans were significantly shorter.

East Asia is rapidly catching up, as well. I’m 6’ and I’ve had a few subway rides surrounded by Northern Chinese where I felt like a midget.

When were and where are, say, bald men or bald women attractive?
Tell me, I'll gladly bring my bald head there to see it first hand .

Nowhere, and everywhere!:

Just as a last example, even though I have no data about it, at least in present times beard seem to be another rather constant one as it seems to be appreciated wherever I go (and which is something white men most often have -and very visible- while it's lacking in other ethnical groups ).

Yes, definitely – beard is another one that’s culturally influenced.

There’s research on beard vs. clean-shaven, if you want hard data on how cultural preferences affect mating preferences:

http://www.livescience.com/44848-women- ... -hair.html

Chase

 

[lux7]

LOL good cartoon there.

You know what I mean though: some traits are good to have, most of the times, and some ethnicity tend to have those traits more than others (the article you link, overall, still shows it's good to have beard and to at least have the option for growing beards).

And of course it's not an hegemony, it's more like a tendency, and as with all tendencies, it comes with all kinds of different exceptions.

Mind your sample sizes and control methods.

You’re drawing conclusions about the preferences of entire populations by examining your own results. This is the same thing the guys who get hung up on race and blame it for their faults do too.

Not really, Chase.

This is a bit like the people criticizing your "method" in your article of "pay or not pay for dates".
And you were there saying something like "hey man, your objection is not valid. No, this is not scientific in the sense that I did it in a lab, yet this is based on extensive experience and kept repeating itself a number of times, both for me and for what I could see around me. And it purely makes sense with all the rest of the knowledge I have developed and tested so far. If you don't believe me, try it".

Well, it's the same here really, but with maybe even more circumstantial evidence.

The hooker thing was an example to show success with a type of women who tend to be hot, and tend to have lots of options.. And to ask for money too.

I could have mentioned many other "circumstantial proof", like having girls telling me I'm very handsome or that I could have any girl I want more times around Asia in two weeks than in my whole life back in Europe (or actually, case in point, more than a girl took the indirect way saying "you know.. Asian girls really like white guys");
or pulling conservative/virgin girls from malls 5 times easier than more open minded Europeans in Europe;
or matching in Tinder 15 times more and having those matches coming to my place right away (for free and taking care of their own transport) when it never happened in Europe;
or seeing attraction 5 times more.
or, the final proof for those into final results, getting laid 10 times more;

ALL those things happened. And lots of times.
It's not a small sample anymore.
And while it still could be coincidence... It's about the same chances you're about to win a national lottery, Chase, and I doubt you're the kind of guy who even buys lottery tickets .

And this is not because my fundamentals raised all of a sudden in absolute terms.
They raised in relative terms though.

As much as I'd like to believe it's about my coolness and suaveness, and as much as it will sound politically incorrect... They raised in relative terms because... I'm white.(in places where whites are even more top choice and with not many of them around).

 

[Chase]

Lux-

Ah, I see. You're conflating geolocational marketplace-based advantage with racial advantage.

What you're seeing is not race; it's sexual marketplace-based socialization differences:

Game Imbalance Hypothesis

Casual sex is a new thing in Asia, which means the men suck at going for it and the women are not inured to the game Western men bring along with them. It's no coincidence that confident Western men all clean up in Asia, regardless of their ethnic backgrounds, and say things like "Asian girls are the easiest in the world", while timid Western men inhabit sexual deserts there and convince themselves that "Asian girls are too conservative and only want serious relationships" (I've heard this from far more white men in Asia than anyone else). The men who've learned game, or who are sufficiently confident, do well. The biggest "racial" advantage I've seen in Asia is for foreign-born men of the same nationality; ABCs in China, for instance, or Australian-born Japanese in Japan (just don't let them be Brazilian-born Japanese... big stigma there). Head-to-head against a similarly skilled white or black guy, the foreign born Asian man will win. But again, I'm skeptical even that is race... it may just be he knows little cultural nuances better, or speaks a few bits of the language enough to paint the other-ethnic guy as an outsider.

This is also why it's easier in, say, Eastern Europe, than Southern Europe. I'm sure you've seen the Spanish and Italian and Greek guys who come to Eastern Europe and clean up, and heard about how hard it is in those countries (or perhaps you've visited them). It's not that dark-skinned white men with curly hair have an innate racial advantage over light-skinned white men with straight hair; it's that the sexual marketplace in Southern Europe is more intensely competitive and operates at a higher level of social evolution than that of Eastern Europe right now.

An easy metric: just ask yourself which nations have the most intensive socialization practices (often correlated to which countries have been the most heavily urbanized, the longest, but not necessarily; Japan's been pretty heavily urbanized for a while now, but the society is fairly anti-social so it remains an easy place to pick up). These are the countries that produce the men who are the best at getting laid. The ones with the women with the poorest socialization produce the women who are generally the easiest to sleep with.

It's socialization man, + a little foreigner effect. It isn't race.

Chase

 

[disciple99]

I a bit late here but as being a student of economics I will say its all demand and supply when you are a rare commodity your value automatically rises.
hey and hookers are women too means they love good sex too and man who pay for "maybe" are not good.
I don't think I will ever kiss a hooker
cheers hope this helps.

 

[lux7]

Lux-

Great point Chase, and that IS a MAJOR part of the equation as well.

But that's mostly true for in persons interactions, so it's not the whole story.

BTW, funny the example you used was so close to me: as a Southern European who's lived in Eastern Europe I often thought along the same lines.
A bit off topic, but as a possibly interesting addendum Spanish guys these days with Ibiza as the most popular resort for youngsters and with the Spanish sport teams and sport stars dominating in so many fields get more points than Greeks and as many points as the Italians if not more, yet their approach is much more different: Spanish guys tend to be more "blase'", which is probably part of their allure as well. Italians, on average, tend to be much more aggressive and all out.


Back to the topic, I don't show any game in, say, Tinder.
Just a bunch of pictures, and that's enough to get 10x more attraction than a local guy. It's not game, there's not much game in pictures.
It's... Well, the way I look and, should I say it again? My skin colour.

Now you might say that the girls matching me like me because they already know westerners on average have more game.

And that might be part of it as well.

Yet...
Let me ask you a question: who has no interest in meeting someone with game?

Prostitutes and escorts, right?

They mostly just want to get paid.
They are actually better off with someone without game.
More likely to get back for more, more likely to fall for them.

Well, listen to this: in this very popular island I'm in, where many locals got more money than the average tourists by building restaurants and resorts, you know what many -probably around 30%,40%- escorts write in their profiles?
"NO LOCALS".
A huge number of escorts write "no locals"!

After I read your message and after I dropped off a local girl who, guess what, didn't date locals I was waiting on my carbonra and chatting to a Tinder match whom tells me me she's actually an escort but doesn't write it on her profile because "she's picky" and first wants to see who matches with her.
Well, I was almost happy to read so, what a great chance. I got curious and inquired more on her pickyness.
Guess who it included?
"No locals".
Asked why, it was both because of manners and looks. Paying or not paying was not the issue.

So even at least some of the local hookers who don't clearly write it, they still prefer to sleep with foreigners (and avoid locals).
And, again, this isn't a one off thing.

Wouldn't you agree that is a strong, possibly very strong proof that sometimes, to muse Warren Buffet, it's good to have (a certain) skin (and looks) in the game?

 

[lux7]

Also, when stressing that SE Asian guys are unprepared to sexual liberalization, you seem to make the point that it's only a cultural thing.

But cultures are shaped by people who, in turn, are shaped by the culture they grow up in and, well... Their genes.

Now again, no laboratory data on it, but I think Europe was more of an aggressive dating environment even when dating rules where much stricter as bed hopping was much harder.

From the rural area I'm from the chronicles of older people stories seemed to all point out to a surface level of extremely strict dating rituals and yet to a frothing "under the water" activity with guys taking women in haystacks and cemeteries.

My own father cold approached my mother in the conservative first half of the '60s in a rural area, and when she said she couldn't go out with anyone as she just broke up and dad wouldn't allow a new one so quick... Well, my father just asked where she lived and walked to her father's house and talked him into "lifting the ban" so he could go ahead.
That's an example you can be aggressive even in extremely conservative environment and even when you're actually following the "dating rituals".
And that's an example of a behaviour who would probably very quickly adapt to a new environment of sexual liberalization.

 

[disciple99]

Also, when stressing that SE Asian guys are unprepared to sexual liberalization, you seem to make the point that it's only a cultural thing.

But cultures are shaped by people who, in turn, are shaped by the culture they grow up in and, well... Their genes.

Now again, no laboratory data on it, but I think Europe was more of an aggressive dating environment even when dating rules where much stricter as bed hopping was much harder.

From the rural area I'm from the chronicles of older people stories seemed to all point out to a surface level of extremely strict dating rituals and yet to a frothing "under the water" activity with guys taking women in haystacks and cemeteries.

My own father cold approached my mother in the conservative first half of the '60s in a rural area, and when she said she couldn't go out with anyone as she just broke up and dad wouldn't allow a new one so quick... Well, my father just asked where she lived and walked to her father's house and talked him into "lifting the ban" so he could go ahead.
That's an example you can be aggressive even in extremely conservative environment and even when you're actually following the "dating rituals".
And that's an example of a behaviour who would probably very quickly adapt to a new environment of sexual liberalization.

so you saying being aggressive is actual advantage here & being aggressive in conservative places will get more results actually.

 

[lux7]

so you saying being aggressive is actual advantage here & being aggressive in conservative places will get more results actually.

Well yeah, if you take more shots and go move things forward you do tend to get more results no matter the "conservativeness" of the environment no?

 

[lux7]

Also, to kinda of close this topic, most people seem to hold the point of view it's mostly a cultural and period-related thing.
And there seem to some headwind in "admitting" race can play a big role.

Luckily on this website it shouldn't be because of PC, though it might be partly because it can feel like making an excuse for not doing your best in whatever scenario, and luckily this isn't a website for excuses either .

But if you think about it, it's just normal that a certain kind of anything will get more preferences than another kind.

Take the same car, make different colour of it with slight changes (ie.: spoilers, skirts etc.) and sell it at the same price and still some colour and variations of it will sell more than others.

The biggest sellers will change over the years depending on cultural fads and fashions, though, and this is the difference between me and most of you here, I believe some "stickyness" is likely to linger and stay (ie.: for the cars probably the classical white and black colour will keep selling more than pink and violet in whichever age).

In a very simplified way, I don't see why it should be any different for people.

And of course, as a final disclaimer "race" is nothing but a single factor in an otherwise myriad of other factors, with probably all the fundamentals counting much more in most common scenarios.