The "You May Be a Serial Killer" Test + Whether Or Not To "Push" Thru Objections

[Richard]

Re: The "You May Be a Serial Killer" Test + Whether Or Not To "Push" Thru Object

I sit and say "can I say you something?" which was actually just a setup for a random comment she says "... I'm lame/annoying isn't it?" I brush it off saying some stupid shit and then proceed to not saying anything during the whole walk to her car because I was just so pissed. She gets in and says "bye, see ya soon" or some shit like that but I just turn around and start walking to my car 'cause I was hitting an afterparty.

Massively failed her test, homie.

This was the perfect time to interrupt her LMR pattern. It's fine for you to show a lack of interest/boredom at this point because she isn't sleeping with you but you should never be pissed and the test she threw out at you let her know exactly how you were feeling/thinking and you botched it.

I'm sure you plan to invest less and less into this girl because this was a 4th date with no sex but, for future reference; when a girl says ANYTHING along the lines of "I'm lame/annoying" or "Sorry to disappoint you," etc. it's a test. Really should have tried that pattern interrupt because she gave you a foot in the door!

-Richard

 

[Big Daddy]

Re: The "You May Be a Serial Killer" Test + Whether Or Not To "Push" Thru Object

Hey Rich, thanks for you input bud. You always make my day better with very solid and sound advice/opinion.

I had actually submitted another post (that apparently didn't go through) basically recognizing that I wrote that while too emotional haha and that I have a super hard time blaming other people for stuff that I wanted to happen. Even before you pointed this out, I felt this was 99% on me... even for stuff before we got back to my place.

I had no idea why I was so pissed off, honestly. I guess it was just new territory for me as it was the first time going that far without having sex, so I felt entitled to something she obviously had nothing to do with. At least now that I happened once I'll keep in mind that I have to balance better being aloof and being pissed off.

It kinda sucks that she left with (I'd think) a pretty bad taste in her mouth (I was definitively not nice to her in the end) because she is a cool girl. At the time I admittedly was only thinking of getting my dick wet, but whenever I fuck up like this I always feel bad for the girl. Oh well. Living and learning. I'll still maintain my frame of not contacting her but I'll make sure to do it right next time with this girl or another one.

 

[Richard]

Re: The "You May Be a Serial Killer" Test + Whether Or Not To "Push" Thru Object

Hey Rich, thanks for you input bud. You always make my day better with very solid and sound advice/opinion.

I had actually submitted another post (that apparently didn't go through) basically recognizing that I wrote that while too emotional haha and that I have a super hard time blaming other people for stuff that I wanted to happen. Even before you pointed this out, I felt this was 99% on me... even for stuff before we got back to my place.

I had no idea why I was so pissed off, honestly. I guess it was just new territory for me as it was the first time going that far without having sex, so I felt entitled to something she obviously had nothing to do with. At least now that I happened once I'll keep in mind that I have to balance better being aloof and being pissed off.

It kinda sucks that she left with (I'd think) a pretty bad taste in her mouth (I was definitively not nice to her in the end) because she is a cool girl. At the time I admittedly was only thinking of getting my dick wet, but whenever I fuck up like this I always feel bad for the girl. Oh well. Living and learning. I'll still maintain my frame of not contacting her but I'll make sure to do it right next time with this girl or another one.

Yeah, and that whole notion of "feeling entitled" is a pretty bitter one but partially valid, in this case. I talk to a lot of guys who are good with women pretty regularly and this one of those moments where experience shows itself; we always remain calm and collected through everything (with very little exception) but it takes a lot of fucking up to reach that point but it's something you want to keep in mind; if a girl is doing something and you're reacting emotionally then you still need to improve somewhere.

So, I know a lot of us would have been disinterested or bored but NOT angry/pissed.

Anyway, that aside, good call to not contact her and I wouldn't be surprised if she doesn't reach out because she probably did leave with a bad taste in her mouth after that date/place invite. Last note, if she does contact you and you two (miraculously) make something happen it is okay to say "Yeah, I let my male ego get in the way of having a good time with you" or something along those lines IF (and only IF) she brings up being hurt by that test she threw out at you.

-Richard

 

[Big Daddy]

Re: The "You May Be a Serial Killer" Test + Whether Or Not To "Push" Thru Object

I talk to a lot of guys who are good with women pretty regularly and this one of those moments where experience shows itself; we always remain calm and collected through everything (with very little exception) but it takes a lot of fucking up to reach that point but it's something you want to keep in mind

I'm sure experience plays a role, but I feel I lack quickness in my feet to scramble in these situations. I don't know if I'm vastly underestimating the experience of those around me or if I have less of a natural knack.

In higher pressure situations (pull, fierce frame battles, LMR), if I'm not inspired or is something I saw before, most likely I'll almost go back to noob mode. As of yesterday, I've been trying to be more mindful and go deeper in stuff that I read about women to see if helps me in this regard.

if a girl is doing something and you're reacting emotionally then you still need to improve somewhere.

Gawd, this is such a good north to adhere to. I liked this. Easy way to gauge whether or not you're in the right direction.

Last note, if she does contact you and you two (miraculously) make something happen it is okay to say "Yeah, I let my male ego get in the way of having a good time with you" or something along those lines IF (and only IF) she brings up being hurt by that test she threw out at you.

I really doubt she'll contact me. She's doing a presentation later this week and she had said that I should go before, so let's see if she pings me again. If she does, I'll suggest chilling at my place on the weekend instead.

But on your note, this is the kind of stuff that I have a horrible time "extrapolating" based on the experience that I already have. Not even after sex? I get the point of now showing the cards if I don't need to, but wouldn't that be a nice warm move on my part to straighten the fact that she isn't just some piece of meat (specially after treating her like I did in the end)?

If we end up having sex I guess she'd be good, but I just wonder why do I feel I need to make her understand? I guess it's because I had very, very low levels of empathy towards girls in the past (and they'd always let me know) and I'm kinda making a point to be more empathic but I'm going at it at the wrong angle.

 

[Richard]

Re: The "You May Be a Serial Killer" Test + Whether Or Not To "Push" Thru Object

BD,

In higher pressure situations (pull, fierce frame battles, LMR), if I'm not inspired or is something I saw before, most likely I'll almost go back to noob mode. As of yesterday, I've been trying to be more mindful and go deeper in stuff that I read about women to see if helps me in this regard.

I used to be the same way; I have a core belief of "Powerlessness" so if I'm in an unfamiliar situation I tend to shut down. The opposite of that, though, is a "Powerful" core belief so if I'm in a situation/experience I'm familiar with then I feel very confident BUT not arrogant. The perk of this, then, is that we only develop confidence when we're legitimately good at something. I picked this up from Light a while back, and people like us tend to be the most successful for this reason. So, if you're the same way then kudos!

But on your note, this is the kind of stuff that I have a horrible time "extrapolating" based on the experience that I already have. Not even after sex? I get the point of now showing the cards if I don't need to, but wouldn't that be a nice warm move on my part to straighten the fact that she isn't just some piece of meat (specially after treating her like I did in the end)?

If we end up having sex I guess she'd be good, but I just wonder why do I feel I need to make her understand? I guess it's because I had very, very low levels of empathy towards girls in the past (and they'd always let me know) and I'm kinda making a point to be more empathic but I'm going at it at the wrong angle.

Can you clarify what you're asking here? Seems kind of chaotic, to me.

-Richard

 

[Big Daddy]

Re: The "You May Be a Serial Killer" Test + Whether Or Not To "Push" Thru Object

Rich,

I used to be the same way; I have a core belief of "Powerlessness" so if I'm in an unfamiliar situation I tend to shut down. The opposite of that, though, is a "Powerful" core belief so if I'm in a situation/experience I'm familiar with then I feel very confident BUT not arrogant. The perk of this, then, is that we only develop confidence when we're legitimately good at something. I picked this up from Light a while back, and people like us tend to be the most successful for this reason. So, if you're the same way then kudos!

Heh, great to know then! I thought I was a slow learner, but this is a way healthier way to look at it.

Can you clarify what you're asking here? Seems kind of chaotic, to me.

Sure. I messed up on the quotes, it's quite all over the place indeed. I'm gonna break down my train of thought in four parts that are connected, to facilitate:

1. What I'm asking is: you say I shouldn't bring up the whole ego thing if SHE doesn't bring it up first, but why? If you had never said that, it'd be a top priority in my head if she came over... If I had to summon a reason, I'd say it's because over the past year I've been trying to be more empathic as girls & close friends in the past would say that I was to "cold."

2. Granted, if I shouldn't be doing it until she brings it up herself, I'm going at "being more empathic" at the wrong angle. In fact, I definitively lost some assertiveness and edginess after I started focusing on empathy. On the other hand, I never went full asshole (attractive), but I'm weary of increasing my assholishness because of the reactions I got in my colder days (not attractive). That's more of an observation than question, but if you could shed some light it'd be appreciated

3. Then, after thinking for a while what you had said, I see your point of not showing the cards unnecessarily if I don't need to. If I escalate and she brings it up, I address the issue only when called for; if, however, we end up having sex, you could argue it'd be unnecessary to bring it up. OK. But would it be bad if I brought it up AFTER sex? I mean, even if you're THE fuckboy, cuddling with her after sex is probably a good thing right.

4. And then finally, after questioning myself whether it'd be bad or good, I wondered why do I have this fixation with "being warm" and making sure she understood everything? My guess is it circles back to the empathy thing that I got all wrong. I'm more of an individualist dude, so I always had this "I don't give a fuck about you" attitude (to a way larger degree to people closer to me), BUT not quite "devil may care asshole" attitude towards life/everybody if that makes sense. I tried to fix some of these issues by trying to be more empathic before going full asshole and I guess that made me have lots of wrong reads and probably mindsets. I was afraid of going full bad boy because to me that seemed like amplifying the kind of shit that I was already getting at the time.

 

[Richard]

Re: The "You May Be a Serial Killer" Test + Whether Or Not To "Push" Thru Object

BD,

Yeah, my impression of what you were asking for was right but I didn't want to respond without that confirmation. Would have been embarrassing to go on a long tangent on something completely unrelated to what you were asking for ^_^

Anyhow,

1) You're thinking too much like a man about this and not enough like a woman; that's the issue and it was something I was guilty of until relatively recently. Ignoring that something happened and moving on from things quickly is how women respond to problems for a reason and that reason is because it's smart. If she doesn't let you know it was a problem then why potentially bring up something that can kill the connection between the two of you? Worst case scenario is that you shoot yourself in the foot and the best case scenario is you get her thinking about how you fucked up. So, it's smarter to avoid it UNLESS she brings it up or her behavior suddenly changes. If a woman has a problem with you she's going to let you know in some way; directly or otherwise.

2) I'm not sure what angle you're trying to play while being "empathic." Really, to women, being empathic just means you're listening to them and giving them healthy attention - show them that you're interested in who they are and not just interested in what's between their legs. Honestly, you don't even have to talk about yourself for a woman to view you as "empathic," you just have to listen and show them healthy attention.

3) Yeah, still unnecessary to bring it up unless she says it's a problem or her behavior changes drastically. If you two have sex just treat her like you would any other girl - I'm not sure about anybody else but post-sex I go right back to being myself; laid back, funny, and inquisitive. If I feel like cuddling then I'll usually tease her verbally and just pull her into me, whatever I'm feeling. The point is, it's not an issue until she let's you know it's an issue which is why you act like nothing happened or it was no big deal BECAUSE until she says/shows it was then it actually wasn't a big deal.

4) I used to have that same fixation - I was looking for a girl to validate and tell me where I fucked up because I wasn't confident in pinpointing things on my own. Eventually I realized that women backwards rationalize and having them tell me where I fucked up was useless in the long run. Not sure what issue you're running in to but I prefer taking who I naturally am and building my game around that; I know Chase advocates trying on a lot of different masks/hats to get a feel but I've never taken that approach. I guess a big question to ask yourself is why do you want women in your life anyway? Whatever the honest answer to that is (good or bad) is a better place to start in refining your approach/angle than anything else.

Also, most guys who go full asshole usually do because they started off too nice and then they become jaded and go full asshole and achieve some better results. Beyond that, though, guys learn to calibrate their assholeishness vs. niceness (as I and the other Tribal Elders have done) and we look at situations a bit differently. Nice guys look at a situation and say "Okay, what can I do for you?" Bad boys/Assholes look at a situation and say "What's the most I can get out of this?" Genuine men look at a situation and say "Okay, how can everybody involved get what they want?"

So, even if you're more of an asshole by nature then there's still no reason you cannot take on the third mentality. I'd say you're taking good steps in that direction, already, because you've recognized the limitations of full-asshole and started to incorporate more empathy into your game - empathy allows you to look at something and say "How does this person feel?" and that allows you to create win-win situations.

Hope that helps!

-Richard

 

[Big Daddy]

Re: The "You May Be a Serial Killer" Test + Whether Or Not To "Push" Thru Object

Wow. I've read this multiples times already and every time I figure something to think very deeply about. Thank you Rich.

After reading everything you wrote here I've come to feel like there's a lot to learn from here and ultimately I see this whole thing under a very positive light. I still need to do some deep thinking, but you guided me very well in understanding what I needed to see. It sucks I didn't figure it in time and ultimately let her down, but hopefully this will be the last time it happens - with her if she ever happens to contact me or another girl if she doesn't.

 

[lostnumber]

Re: The "You May Be a Serial Killer" Test + Whether Or Not To "Push" Thru Object

Hey Rich, thanks for you input bud. You always make my day better with very solid and sound advice/opinion.

I had actually submitted another post (that apparently didn't go through) basically recognizing that I wrote that while too emotional haha and that I have a super hard time blaming other people for stuff that I wanted to happen. Even before you pointed this out, I felt this was 99% on me... even for stuff before we got back to my place.

I had no idea why I was so pissed off, honestly. I guess it was just new territory for me as it was the first time going that far without having sex, so I felt entitled to something she obviously had nothing to do with. At least now that I happened once I'll keep in mind that I have to balance better being aloof and being pissed off.

It kinda sucks that she left with (I'd think) a pretty bad taste in her mouth (I was definitively not nice to her in the end) because she is a cool girl. At the time I admittedly was only thinking of getting my dick wet, but whenever I fuck up like this I always feel bad for the girl. Oh well. Living and learning. I'll still maintain my frame of not contacting her but I'll make sure to do it right next time with this girl or another one.

I haven't chimed in much on this thread because I think Richard has you covered and has been giving you very good advice, but I just wanted to say that this is a great attitude. It takes a real man to admit his mistakes and try to learn from them. Having a good attitude like this separates you from 99% of the people out there, and I am confident that you're going to continue achieving greater and greater success with women as a result.

Keep on keeping on!

 

[Big Daddy]

Re: The "You May Be a Serial Killer" Test + Whether Or Not To "Push" Thru Object

Thanks bro, I appreciate it!