FR They flee - why might that be?

[Railer]

Yesterday I received a warning from admin including a link to a post about victim mentality.

Armed with the info from that post, I start my night. Even though results are very bad, please don't take it as "just complaining". I'd LOVE to know what I am doing wrong and I'd be very grateful if anybody could help me pin down what that might be.

In the club, the girl I'm here with, indicates that "everybody" is looking at me. Before, when we met in my apartment, she indicated that she'd like tall guys and that there were so few of them. I took that as an IOI, but when I try to dance just a little closer to her she bails out. In one moment she even states that a should get "that other girl" who she had pointed out earlier.

Instead I open "that other girls" friend who I consider quite hot. She tells me she's working at that club. Convo goes stale pretty quickly, so I guess it's understandable when she just walks off in the moment of a pause.

Incidentally I bump into a girl dancing next to me. I smile and she opens me. I touch immediately and we talk a little. She seems very interested, but gets distracted by a friend of her showing up. Eventually she opens me again later. I'm not attracted to her, but I still enjoy talking to her a little.

Another girl I had seen before suddenly stands right in front of me. She wants to pass, but I take the opportunity to open her. She avoids looking at me and pushes through to where she wants to go.

I try to do the pre-opening I had read about in another blog post: I position myself next to a girl and nudge her playfully, then I look over to her. She avoids eye contact and even runs off. For fun I follow and repeat. Her friend seems to consider it funny and we are smiling at each other. The girl I nudged says something to her friend, who in turn points out that girl's wedding ring. I tell the girl that being married is no excuse for being impolite, but she keeps ignoring me, running off. I had already noticed by then how "ugly" (sorry) that girl actually is, so I walk off laughing. I don't really know why - it's maybe actually more sad than funny to be rejected by an unattractive girl.

At that point I remember admin's warning and telling myself that I cannot assume failure. So finally I force myself to do just one more approach. I position myself next to the girl and nudge her. When I look at her, she had already started to turn away. Still I try to talk to her and she runs off. I follow, she gives me a "whats wrong with you?" look and runs off in the other direction again.

I feel devastated. It happens to me a lot that girls literally run away and I'd be happy to know why.

 

[Zoro]

Its hard to say without seeing these interactions in person.

The good news is that you are taking action and not becoming too disheartened. You might want to start a journal or some other way to track your interactions. If you make a habit of reflecting on all your interactions, you'll be able to squeeze out juicy reference points and gain insight into all your questions.

I'd say your social calibration is off. That is something you'll learn to build with experience so you're already doing good. Reflecting on your experiences will speed up the process. Why don't you try to give a little more detail from this report?

 

[HellAtlantic]

Here's your biggest problem:

You're doing night game but cold approaching basically. You don't need to cold approach in night game. Girls are at a club or bar to get hit on - all you need to do is sit back and keep an eye out for IOIs and the girls that are interested in you approaching/waiting for you to approach will let you know (in a subtle way). You cold approach in day game, stopping girls in their tracks or when their minds are on something else. You don't know if they're interested or not that's why it's a cold approach. Just be a little more selective about who you approach in night game, if you have decent looks you'll get your fair share of IOI and then there's no need to blindly nudge like 10 girls. Your hit percentage will go up since you won't be just all over the place.

 

[Railer]

The good news is that you are taking action and not becoming too disheartened.

Thanks for the kind words, J.

Sadly, I'm very disheartened. After last night the memories came up again - girls running away in the club or treating me "with missing respect" in other ways. I remember days when I did warm up approaches in order to remember me: "oh, it's actually not that bad".

Now I do approaches, getting the worst reactions and instead of building up momentum, I'm building up fear. I'm so afraid of yet another failure. If you ask me if that fear might be the reason for failure in the first place, I'd say no. I am having the same experiences when I am relaxed & positive.

I woke up today on my still-made bed, clothing on. The only thing that changed in comparison to the last time things like these happened is that this time tears had rushed down my face before I had fallen asleep. I had often hoped for being able to cry in such situations, but somehow I never could. I don't know about the psychological background. Maybe I was just not allowing myself to do it for "such stupid reasons", given there are other, "actual" problems in life.

Why don't you try to give a little more detail from this report?

In regards to the interactions there wasn't really much more, but I will try anyway. Let's take the last approach:

I am basically standing there about two rows away from the dance floor, recovering from the last blow-out, convincing myself to do "just one more approach". I had seen the girl before, but never seen her or her friend notice me. I'd say she's around 18-20 yo. In one moment I go over. I position myself shoulder-to-shoulder with her and playfully nudge her - light smile on my face, but not looking her direction. Then I look at her, still with a smile, but she is not looking at me.

In hindsight I'm unsure, but I think I lightly touched her on the arm too in that moment. Anyway she and her friend go away, avoiding me. I really am not feeling any good by now, but I decide to position myself right in front of her, staring her right into the eyes. I fake still being playful and ask her if she was crazy. She looks into my eyes for a split-second, but does not respond verbally. It's just a nonverbal rejection.


I'm just wild guessing here (not complaining):

I had entered the club with my friend, who surely was one of the best looking girls that night. So I'd suppose that should have caused some social proof. However, only the first approach happened before we had split and that one didn't go too well neither. (Side note: I have an intrinsic hate for social proof - I feel like I don't want to accept it to "be necessary" to get a hot girl.)

Maybe being alone in the club is worse in my case. Being like 6'5" in height I suppose I DLV more than others who might go unnoticed until they approach? My clothing makes me stand out even more (what I wore yesterday was pretty colorful, but confirmed by guys & girls to look great - as in "wow, why do you never wear that?")

I personally love being tall, but maybe the girls are intimidated. I look like I am in my late 20's. Maybe age is a factor.

I am "constantly" being told how good looking I am. Maybe that has the girls think that I "can take it" if they treat me badly. Maybe they consider it incongruent that a good looking guy is standing all by himself and they assume "there must be something wrong"?

I would even consider the running away to be a shit test, but I had sets where I really kept holding on, ended up befriending the group just to still be ignored by the girl I wanted in the first place.

Also, I oftentimes feel as if the mere fact THAT I am approaching a girl is so much much of a DLV that they feel entitled to ditch me like this. This is just a feeling - Note that I don't even find it very logical myself.

Maybe the girls are just like that and I simply never notice, because I don't see others approach them. Maybe if they did, they'd be treated just like I am. In regards to yesterday, I don't remember having seen anybody else interacting with those girls ... in the sense of cold approaching, I mean.

Just be a little more selective about who you approach in night game

I've been thinking about what you write and I cannot quite decide how to view your suggestion. Is it just "taking the easiest path" or do you indicate that there's only a chance with girls who give IOIs?

If you mean the latter, I guess I'd give up gaming altogether - which I tried, but "can't". The one girl who opened me was actually very kind & cool. I've tried lowering my standards during the last couple of months, but simply having sex "more often" doesn't inherently make me happier. It rather supports my irrational(!) thoughts of me not being attractive to the girls I want.

Also, I've tried to take "vacations" from pick up, but don't find myself any better, upon returning.


I've made this post as detailled as possible, out of respect for you guys and to confirm my interest in a solution. Thanks again.

 

[HellAtlantic]

I meant be selective in terms of keeping an eye out for IOIs and approaching those girls rather than blindly approaching. Those are my night game rules, day gamers might say otherwise.

 

[Zoro]

In terms of my own growth, I've seen the most results from figuring out what is blocking or preventing me from doing better, instead of what I am not doing that I should be doing. Make sense?

I think you've got some limiting beliefs. That can be hard to shake. But if you can shake it, you end up being better off than those who didn't have to deal with overcoming that sort of thing.

Visualizations do wonders and so does meditation. Even changing your username to something more positive can have an effect. Honestly, anytime I see a board member with a negative username, I suspect limiting beliefs and then often see that is the case. Maybe pick one thats empowering that resonates with you.

The other side of this, is you are out of your element developing a skill. In other skills its expected that failing miserably at the basics will happen. This is no different.

There are many subtle things that can be going on, that is why self reflection is important.

Is night game really what you want?
Are you conscious of how others are perceiving you? (not self conscious or insecure, I mean awareness of the dynamics of your vibe)
What is internally blocking you from being the man you want to be?

Are you asking yourself questions like this?

;} Keep your head up.

 

[Railer]

In terms of my own growth, I've seen the most results from figuring out what is blocking or preventing me from doing better, instead of what I am not doing that I should be doing. Make sense?

I'm not sure, but you might refer to "inner" vs "outer" things. I am thinking about it, but I can't pin it down to anything specific. I can guess again though: The first thing that comes to my mind is that I feel like I somehow fail to present myself like a guy those girls would "go crazy" for. As said, I feel as they don't even notice me - like you wouldn't notice those three grannies in the sub way, but you would see that one hottie, even if she's much further away.

I imagine those girls want some ... hmm ... I don't know ... some extroverted party guy who takes them on instant-adventures, negs them, has some mysterious vibe about him - something that defines him. A rock star, whatever. (I'm just writing my thoughts as they pop up, trying not to judge too much.) So, well, essentially I "see" them having super-high expectations. And, thinking of it, none of the girls that come to my mind at the moment did ever end up making out or going home with any other guy neither. That is, I haven't seen that - could have happened without me noticing of course.

Also I don't really have an "external" identity - I mean "on display" for others. I mean I have most of my values pretty clear - but just for myself and those closest to me - sadly, not even my best friends can relate to those values.

I don't know to which extent, but I suppose most guys here know what that's like - given that the seduction community is quite different from traditional wife-house-dog-kids perspective in life.

I think you've got some limiting beliefs. That can be hard to shake. But if you can shake it, you end up being better off than those who didn't have to deal with overcoming that sort of thing.

I'm actually sure I got a load of limiting beliefs, but unless we go all hocus-pocus I cannot understand how the beliefs killed the interactions mentioned. Anyway, let's try asking: What if I approached without the limiting belief? Well, I would have likely approached with less delay ... hmm but besides that, nothing comes to my mind.

Hmm I also realize that I am not feeling horny for girls. I notice they're hot and beautiful, but It's not that my body craves for them. Maybe that's a cause, maybe just an effect: some sort of defense mechanism like "you won't get her anyway, so why bother getting horny".

Love also helps a lot, but it's been a while since I last felt it. Well - with girl #56 of viewtopic.php?f=5&t=12305 I did feel it, although I admit the interaction was short, so I had a lot of space to fill with my imaginations about her personality being great.

Visualizations do wonders and so does meditation.

Both terms have a pretty broad range of meaning, but there were times I was really into these things. Sadly nothing I visualized ever came true ... so the only visualizations I maintained are the ones to improve state (like imagining certain type of effects surrounding me).

Even changing your username to something more positive can have an effect.

My idea was to change my username upon success. To celebrate, so to say. The things that trouble me are much older than my account creation date, ... this forum altogether and some are even older than the entire PU community xD

The other side of this, is you are out of your element developing a skill. In other skills its expected that failing miserably at the basics will happen. This is no different.

I've started with pickup some seven years ago ... my amount of new lays had doubled and I was "so stoked", but then I realized that the actual change was me being more persistent. PU was merely giving me a structure to have me keep interacting instead of giving up. So my belief in the "pickup magic" vanished.

Now with the problems at hand (girls running away or me not biting), persistence obviously doesn't cut it.

Is night game really what you want?

What I "really" want is girls being all over me. I want them to have sparkles in their eyes while they tell their friends how great a guy I am. And I want these girls to be younger than 20, generally. I want them to jump at me and hug me when they see me as if I was fucking Santa Claus.

I want a pack of friends who share passion for pickup and hang out with them just how we did when we were still teenagers. "Uselessly" sitting in some public place all day long, drinking, waiting for the night to come, pick up girls ... I miss those times. I want to not have to go to a forum to find equal-minded people who can give me more than a "why don't you stay with girl X - she was hot".

So altogether I don't want to pick one certain type of "game", but if I had to, I guess I would prefer night game ... I'm not sure why - maybe for diversity (in regards to possible situations) and the successes appear more "intense". I like dancing too.

Are you conscious of how others are perceiving you?

How others perceive me? People who know me, know me as considerate, relaxed & calm. My friends sometimes indicate that I over-think things or that I am too interested in minor details that don't actually matter. I can be too accommodating at times, sabotaging my own success in favor of helping others. I'm working on changing this already.

How girls I newly meet perceive me? Well in the situations mentioned I suppose they perceive me as creep xD Otherwise I don't know. To me it seems the less attractive a girl is, the more openly she is communicating interest (from staring longer to actually opening).

Is night game really what you want?
Are you conscious of how others are perceiving you?
What is internally blocking you from being the man you want to be?

What's blocking me? I'll have to see to the "internal" part of your question while I write. Externally, my closer friends are following paths that are quite different from mine - both in regards to style and location. Then, having the girls all over me doesn't quite come by itself ... The last time I had a really hot girl jump at me like mentioned above was in my teens.

I am being welcomed very openly and kindly by girls who know me a bit, but it's not that full-blown-passion thing.

Now to "internal" ... It must be some sort of fear ... I fear having to act being somebody I am not in order to attract the girls I want. I fear that it will be a constant effort of "not committing errors" in my interactions. I also fear that "time is running out" - I mean considering the number of times I was rejected based on my age in combination with my preference for young women ... I fear "never getting it" ... and then again I fear "getting it" and realizing that it might have been just one very tiny and super simple thing that I was unable to see ... and that it should have been "so obvious" all the way along and then look back on all the pain I have been suffering from age 11 onwards ... realizing that I could've lived a live full of beautiful experiences if I had just had THAT single piece of information much earlier. While I write this, I remember many of the girls I wanted so badly ... and never even kissed. Also I fear just being delusional - thinking that I could have everything I wanted if I "just do it right", finally dying without ever improving.

The sister of the girl I went out with yesterday just asked me if I'd wanna join them going out, but the thought of seeing some attractive girl at the clubs tonight and living last night over again, creeps me out.

Anyway I'm happy having put thought and effort into writing this post here.

Good night

 

[Zoro]

Hmm,

There are things in your post that are a bit contradicting. A lot a preconceptions that aren't doing you any good. Personally, I'd need to see you in person to get a better feel of what's going on.

This is why I am stressing meditation, one of the most powerful forms of self reflection. It might do good to clear your mind, untangle yourself from some of these ideas and go into life willing to question everything.

Bruce Lee said you cannot teach a man with his own ideas (closed mind). If you want to learn something new, empty your cup.

 

[Railer]

There are things in your post that are a bit contradicting.

Thank you for taking time to read the post.

Would you mind pointing out one of those contradictions? (Of course it's no guarantee for consistence, but I made sure everything "resonated" with me as I wrote.)

There "must" be some idea/concept/info that gets me at least one step further ... or even someone who has gone through similar things ... at least I hope so.

 

[Zoro]

Here's one.

(Side note: I have an intrinsic hate for social proof - I feel like I don't want to accept it to "be necessary" to get a hot girl.)

What I "really" want is girls being all over me. I want them to have sparkles in their eyes while they tell their friends how great a guy I am. And I want these girls to be younger than 20, generally. I want them to jump at me and hug me when they see me as if I was fucking Santa Claus.

If you have girls all over you, and other girls see you... That's social proof.

 

[Railer]

If you have girls all over you, and other girls see you... That's social proof.

Interesting;

I want that, because the affection makes me happy. But now that you pointed that out, I'm not sure if social proof might be an additional reason. I'm monitoring that