This Feeling of Guilt - Does It Go Away?

[Gonzaleth]

I managed to go on a date with this girl: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3338

She actually texted me to set up the date herself, seems she was rather eager to meet me. We went for a simple coffee session.

As I am a beginner to this whole PUA thing, I focused only on a few things to improve on, but the main one is how to get deep-diving going. The session went well, although I wanted to end the session after 2 hours, she insisted on accompanying till my next appointment and the whole session ended up to be 4hours long.... almost ran out of things to talk about towards the end.

Will appreciate if the more experienced guys can share with me how you feel about this:

1) She mentioned that I am not very good at texting: To hear this from a girl was a rather big surprise to me, especially since I used to text women incessantly. I am not sure if she finds that attractive or not, but a feeling crept up on me shortly after she mentioned that. Truth is: I am NOT "not good" at texting, it is just because I MADE myself look as though I am not good at texting. I feel a little like a fraud. Do you guys get this feeling?

2) She is very inexperienced: She had only 1 bf before, and is 10 years younger than me. When I deep-dived her, I found out that she has a very idealistic (and rosy) view of relationship, and was very badly hurt in the previous relationship. I am actually contemplating letting this fish back into the pond. I really do not need to be the one to show her that the world is a little harsher than she imagined and love is really not all that sunshine and innocent. I think the guilt will kill me. Have you guys ever felt this way? Does this feeling actually ever go away after one becomes a seasoned PUA?

 

[Thedoctor]

Gonzaleth, here is my take on your questions:

1) You want girls to tell you this. Texting is for small conversations that lead to the next meetup in person, not for long conversations about your day. I think almost every guy here has tried being a "good texter" in the past with little success. You're not being a fraud. You're doing what works. If girls wanted to be texted all the time, and responded well to it, and didn't friend-zone or ignore the guys doing it, then every guy here would be texting like a madman. That is not the case so don't feel bad. You're a bad texter because you want to further the interaction with this girl and ultimately please her. Why you should you feel guilty about that?

2) If you don't want a relationship with her, don't get into a relationship with her. A lot of guys in general end up hurting girls by saying they want (often even getting into) relationships. This is where people get hurt. You should never be telling a girl you want a relationship, even if you do. Once you've framed yourself as a confident, sexy man who is unsure about relationships, you've placed the responsibility solely on her. It is HER decision. So once again, why should you feel guilty about that?

Guilt will only exist if you leave a girl with a feeling a disappointment. If she enjoys her experience with you, then there is no reason to feel guilty.

-Doc

 

[Estate]

I second TheDoctor advice:

1) Her telling you you're not "good" at texting isn't necessarily a bad thing. I depends how you played it but people usually say this sort of joking when they want someone to pay them more attention by text but they are not getting it. In some ways that's good... she WANTS you but you're not giving in so much, so she wants you more.

2) Look, to be honest yes, the more girls you meet, the more numb you become to being that perfect guy doing all the romantic movie guy things... you care a bit less. Heck, up to maybe 2 years ago, if I had been on a 1st date with someone, I wouldn't even dream of talking to another girl until I knew for sure I would not see that girl again. I'd be eaten up with guilt. Nowadays I've learned a 1st date means nothing in itself and I'm free to meet and date other women, just as an example.
Having said that I'm an advocate of having some morals. Look, if this girl is much younger and the type to want to jump right into a relationship, then if you keep seeing her and sleep with her, she will become more attached. Unless you are fairly explicit that to you this is just sex... then it can only end badly. I know a lot of guys here will disagree with me on this one. It's a question of can you sleep with her vs. is it WORTH sleeping with her. Of course you can, but there's also times when if something just feels like it may be a bad move, it might just be. From your description, the chances that you can continue to have nice dates with her until you sleep with her and then want to walk away... some girls like this won't let you and it'll become a head-ache, because you were not up front about wanting sex... and if you ARE up front, there's a pretty good chance she will call you a dick and walk away.
Don't play with peoples emotions... there are lots of women out there who you can easily meet and hookup with... you don't need the drama of something like this.

 

[Gonzaleth]

Doc and Estate, thanks for your replies!

1) I have yet to adjust to this new mental model of texting, it goes against what "mainstream conventional wisdom" ingrained in me.... the guilty feeling is probably some remnants of my old conditioning. I suspect with more practice I will eventually get used to this. I can attest that "texting badly" REALLY works, no matter how bizarre it seems. :S

2) To be honest, I am to be blamed for it because I did not set a sexual frame right from the beginning. After my meeting with her, she was excitedly telling my best bud what happened during our "date" and was keen to find out what was my impression of her, but I was pretty nonchalant about it. I was looking for a casual relationship, I am pretty certain she is not.

Doc:

If you don't want a relationship with her, don't get into a relationship with her.

I think it is too late for me to re-frame myself to a guy just looking for casual relationship, because I think she has slotted me into bf territory, probably something she concluded from my vibe during our meeting. Sucks but true, I muck this one up.

Estate:

the chances that you can continue to have nice dates with her until you sleep with her and then want to walk away... some girls like this won't let you and it'll become a head-ache, because you were not up front about wanting sex... and if you ARE up front, there's a pretty good chance she will call you a dick and walk away.

This is what I am really worried about. If I sleep with her, walk away and things go south, I can at least pull a disappearing act, but my best bud will take the blunt of it. I weigh the pros and cons, and to me it is just not worth it.

Current status: I just sat on it and stopped contacting her. A lost cause but I learned a great deal from it.

My biggest problem right now is: I always end up as bf candidate which I can't seem to shake off. The same thing repeated itself recently with a Korean girl I met. Is it because I am too much of a nice guy still? And that I provide much value to them? One very strange thing I noticed is: when I deepdive and I manage to form a deep emotional connection with the girl, she begins to slot me into the bf role? Any of you have that problem? Am I deep-diving wrongly?

 

[Thedoctor]

when I deepdive and I manage to form a deep emotional connection with the girl, she begins to slot me into the bf role? Any of you have that problem? Am I deep-diving wrongly?

No, you want to form a deep emotional connection, but, you also need to MOVE FAST. If you don't, then you slot yourself into the BF role. Here's a good article that might help you:

https://www.girlschase.com/content/early ... s-bad-idea

 

[Estate]

Agreed,
You need to move fast.

Where do you meet these girls BTW?
Personally if I am into a fling then the easiest way is to meet them at night in bars, do all the deep diving, escalate quickly and take them home that night. It sets the tone right away that I wasn't asking for their number to take them for coffee, they had to option to come home with me and can take it or leave it.

When you ask them on nice dates and have nice conversation you're already positioned in the dating category. You can turn it around sure, but this goes back to my old point of why make things more difficult? If you want a fling, then meet girls who want flings.

I don't really understand why guys obsess over "this one girl" but then only want to sleep with them! If you just want a hookup, then meet girls who want to hookup, does it really matter who she is? You don't want anything more from them so meet girls who want the same.

If you want a relationship then meet girls who want relationships and then you can begin to justify why one is so special over the other ... but I just don't get the logic behind trying to "change" girls.

 

[trashKENNUT]

Gonzaleth,

I really do not need to be the one to show her that the world is a little harsher than she imagined and love is really not all that sunshine and innocent. I think the guilt will kill me. Have you guys ever felt this way? Does this feeling actually ever go away after one becomes a seasoned PUA?

It depends on the level of empathy you have. If you raise in a family where you're raise to be "soft", more reserved and quiet, you will feel this more than a guy who was raise in a family where his father is more harsher, or environment reasons.

The guilt is understandable, but like some of the guys mention, it fades, You recover faster, although you will retain some "caring", empathy for women, especially when you experience and you see some women that will be struggling and nervous when they see you. It's funny looking at it, at times.

You can only try to not hurt a girl, but sometimes you do hurt women, and sometimes it can not be about you but the other girls you date, that she sees. Don't worry about women, They exaggerate damsels in distress a lot, too. Only a few are genuine and live their lifes by what they do, which means they will really wait for marriage, or want a relationship. So be aware of that, too.

Zac