I’ve debated with myself about writing this and the reports to come. Ultimately, I’ve decided that when I’m an old man with a fading memory, I’ll appreciate being able to look back at the adventures of my early 30s. With a chuckle and smile.
So I’m starting with this summer, which has been a bit of a turning point in my abilities with women. And if anyone here finds this interesting or even useful, all the better.
Some Background
Perhaps some time I’ll write up more of my story. For now you just need to know that I was never a natural. I’ve always loved women, but started with absolutely no idea of how to get with them and was pretty useless. I discovered online dating advice in my early 20s, slowly picked up bits and pieces, went through an asshole phase, had many failures, a few successes, and gradually got better over the years, while in and out of relationships.
I first found Chase’s writings a couple of years ago after a friend’s recommendation. I quickly realised that Chase was addressing all the outstanding questions I had – and explaining things at a much more fundamental level than other more ‘PUA-style’ approaches I’d come across. It just felt a lot more natural and easier to digest.
I’d started applying some of this site’s lessons, but spent most of the past year (2016-17) in a relationship and was focused on other areas of my life. I ended that relationship in early March. After a couple of hookups with an old FWB, by late May I was ready to focus on new adventures.
I’m in my early 30s and based in London, UK, so reports are from here unless otherwise noted.
Tinder Beckons
I hate Tinder, simply because online dating hides many of the fundamentals I’ve worked on, and my photos are somehow worse than real life (so I’ve been told by multiple women). Need to sort that someday. But in the meantime, it can be useful if you’re not always feeling up for approaching – and fancy breaking a dry patch.
At the end of May this year, I matched with this 24-year-old thin blonde Hungarian. Here are the messages:
[My side comments for you are in square brackets]
22:58 Me: I see you like lifts, rooftops, and have good taste in men
what else would I enjoy discovering about you, HBHungarian? [the lifts/rooftops bit is a reference to her photo locations – I invented this template message, feel free to use it, you’re welcome guys ]
22:58 Her: Hahaha
22:59 Her: What a great start line (applause emoji)
23:00 Her: Well there is a lot more to discover… believe me (monkey emoji)
23:02 Me: Well I totally agree with your tag line for starters [she had some profile line about men needing to experience a ‘bad girl’]
23:03 Me: I see you’re really into your red too [she was wearing a red dress in one of her photos]
23:03 Me: Passion or danger… or both?
23:09 Her: Maybe both
23:09 Her: You will need to find out
08:29 Me: Well how about a drink on Sunday evening and we’ll do just that [I think there was a reason I was pushing for that night as I had a packed schedule with other things]
At this point, she said her Mum was visiting so she offered to meet on Friday instead while ‘waiting for her Mum’. The need for her to meet her Mum afterwards would obviously be a problem for her coming home with me, so instead I suggested postponing til after the Mum’s visit. She told me when she’d be free and I re-initiated on that date:
17:27 Me: Hey HBHungarian, how was the week with your Mum? Hope she got to enjoy English breakfasts with a bit of palinka
18:27 Her: It was great! we laughed a lot.
18:28 Her: What are you doing now?
18:46 Me: Have just arrived in X for the weekend – back Monday
18:46 Me: You around for drink early next week?
18:48 Her: Yes can be
18:49 Her: How tall are you? [Girls in London really seem to like asking this question lol!]
18:53 Me: 6’ [well, with a slight heel lol]
18:53 Me: You?
18:53 Her: 5’8
18:58 Her: Are you free on Tuesday?
From there I suggested a location and she suggested swapping numbers. All good. She checks the postcode (zip code for you Yanks!) with me over message, and I compliment her on being organised.
The Date
Always send a message on the morning of the date – because the girl’s wondering whether you’re still coming and may flake to protect her ego if you don’t:
08:03 Me: See you at 6 HBHungarian – I’ll have a brown jacket
08:10 Her: Okay
09:47 Her: This weather is so awful (rain emojis) [uh-oh – I smell a flake coming!]
09:47 Her: Do you work near X? [the place we’re meeting]
10:06 Me: I’m in Y area
10:29 Her: That is not so central. What do you do? [this conversation is not helpful right now, better saved for the date]
10:43 Me: Ask me tonight
15:55 Her: Would you mind if we would meet another time? [did my rebuff cause that perhaps? What would have been a better response?]
15:55 Her: I am not feeling very well
Damn. Now in the past I would have been like ‘Yeah sure no problem’, and of course would never have heard from the girl again. But Chase has taught me two things in these situations: 1) don’t let a girl off the hook, and 2) persist. So here we go:
15:55 Me:
15:56 Me: Problem is I am going to the US on Friday [this was true - and I'll write about this in future!]
15:56 Her: When are you back?
15:56 Me: July
15:56 Her: Uh
15:57 Me: Do you think you might be well enough for one drink? [persist!]
15:58 Her: Yeah maybe lets wait to see. I will message you a bit later
15:59 Me: (applause emoticon)
15:59 Her:
16:00 Me: It’s even stopped raining for you (sun emoticon)
16:55 Her: I’m feeling better [oh yeah!]
16:57 Her: I’m finishing in half an hour so if you want you can meet me a bit earlier. Otherwise, I will be at the bar reading my book.
16:58 Me: Glad to hear it I can’t get there before 6 so I’ll see you in an hour
17:00 Her: Okay
17:06 Her: Btw how tall are you? [lol, remember this?!]
17:06 Her: Oh I remember sorry
17:06 Me: Haha you already asked that
17:06 Her: 6’
17:06 Her:
17:06 Me: Tall enough
17:06 Her: Okay (laughing emoticon)
17:07 Her: Good good
17:16 Her: Btw my hair is very blonde now
17:16 Her: Not like on the pictures
There are a couple of pubs and a cafe around where I live, but girls in general refuse to come to my part of London (it’s only slightly out of central London, but in general they’re unfamiliar with it, it's not a party area, and there’s no real reason to go there unless you live there). So instead, I have a preferred bar that’s right next to the river in the city centre, a 20 minute walk and tube-ride to my place. Not ideal – it’s an extra handicap to test me, if you will, that I often still make work.
On the date, she shows up in a short skirt and looks like she’s prepared her hair. So I make sure to compliment this. I never used to compliment girls on their looks while in my ‘asshole phase’, but on a date, I feel like an initial compliment on her appearance helps to reinforce the romantic/sexual vibe and the habit of rewarding her compliance (she’s showed up, looking good for you). It also shows that you notice details – men often miss when women have put effort into their hair, their compliments are usually a more generic ‘you look great’ or something.
I’m used to deep-diving now and getting the girls to do most of the talking, and she complies no problem. I throw in a couple of ‘chase frames’, can’t remember what I said as it’s a while ago now. But as well as work and travel, we get to talking about Tinder experiences and fun things like that. I made sure to emphasise that I’d be travelling to the US soon for 6 weeks, so she’s aware that it’s now or never with me I also make sure we talk a bit about sex, favourite positions etc – she gets very into this but it’s too long ago for me to remember the details. Bringing up sex is something I often used to forget to do, and usually got slotted into ‘boyfriend-zone’ as a result.
At some point in the conversation, she reveals she’s reading what is basically a women’s ‘pick-up book’. I assume this means something that advises a ‘3-date rule’ or other advice that won’t help the situation! But I decide not to let that dissuade me.
The Pull
About an hour and a half in and after a couple of drinks, we get to the crucial moment:
Me: Well HBHungarian, I’m really glad I met you tonight, you’re a lot of fun.
Her: Yes, me too.
Me: Hey listen, we’ve just about finished our drinks. I live about 10 minutes away from here, how about we go and hang out there and have a nightcap before calling it a night? [the first few times you suggest this to a girl, you’ll feel nervous and it will show. Eventually you get used to it and it’s just a normal outcome to the conversation]
Her: Um, well it’s the first time we’re meeting.
Me: Sure, we’re having a good time, and I’ll be going away soon, I want us to make the most of it (warm smile)
Her: I will think about it. I’m going to the bathroom and I’ll let you know when I’m back.
I’ve had this ‘I’ll think about it in the bathroom’ response a couple of times in the past. It’s never guaranteed, but so far it’s always been a positive for me – I think they just have to text their friend, spray some extra perfume or something like that! Anyway, she comes back and says OK.
At My Place
Like I mentioned, it’s 15-20 minutes from the bar to my flat (apartment!), using public transport. Plenty of things can go wrong during this time. You can avoid most of them by just keeping the conversation going throughout, even if it’s boring stuff, so that she’s still focused on having a good time with you, rather than getting distracted or nervous and deciding to bail.
We eventually make it back. She sits on the sofa, I suggest a glass of wine and she agrees. We chat a little bit, she seems comfortable, so I go in for the kiss. She kisses but pulls back first, with a smile – I need to get in the habit of doing that myself! It’s probably what her dating advice book says
Anyway I re-initiate, start caressing and escalating. She’s breathing heavily, but won’t allow me to remove clothes despite several attempts. I decide a bit of logic won’t go amiss – I smile warmly, tell her that I like her, and find it difficult to keep my hands off her with the way she keeps looking at me. She laughs and tells me I’m very forward.
I also tell her that I’ll be going away to the US soon which is a shame but means I know we have to make the most of the moment. She agrees it’s a shame I’m going away. I tell her that I’m looking out for the two of us here, that I’m a forward guy and that’s a good thing as most guys are too scared to go for what they want. This seems to have a positive effect on her somehow and she agrees with me on that.
I also check whether she’s on her period (I’ve often found that this is a block for women getting physical – not because they don’t want to, but because they’re worried about a guy’s reaction). I tell her: “Look, I really don’t care about that, it’s a totally natural thing.”
Well, some or all of the above does the trick – we go back to kissing on the sofa, and this time she’s enthusiastic about me removing the clothes. After getting her down to her underwear, I pick her up with her legs wrapped around my waist, carry her through to my bedroom, throw her on the bed and continue the good work I tell her she has a gorgeous body (which she does). From there it’s plain sailing, and she’s a bit of a moaner, which I like!
I just wish I’d taken her advice and put the towel down over my bottom sheet!
The Afterglow
After sex, we lie naked in my bed and chat for a bit. She told me how the guys in the office (she’s a PA) were staring at her short skirt today, and would be asking her how tonight’s ‘date’ went in the morning. I told her I was glad to have been of service in making sure she had a good story to tell
She also showed me her dating book, ‘How to Get the Guy’, or something. I started reading it and found it pretty entertaining to see things from the other side – though I couldn’t find any reference to first-date sex... Oh well
So I’m starting with this summer, which has been a bit of a turning point in my abilities with women. And if anyone here finds this interesting or even useful, all the better.
Some Background
Perhaps some time I’ll write up more of my story. For now you just need to know that I was never a natural. I’ve always loved women, but started with absolutely no idea of how to get with them and was pretty useless. I discovered online dating advice in my early 20s, slowly picked up bits and pieces, went through an asshole phase, had many failures, a few successes, and gradually got better over the years, while in and out of relationships.
I first found Chase’s writings a couple of years ago after a friend’s recommendation. I quickly realised that Chase was addressing all the outstanding questions I had – and explaining things at a much more fundamental level than other more ‘PUA-style’ approaches I’d come across. It just felt a lot more natural and easier to digest.
I’d started applying some of this site’s lessons, but spent most of the past year (2016-17) in a relationship and was focused on other areas of my life. I ended that relationship in early March. After a couple of hookups with an old FWB, by late May I was ready to focus on new adventures.
I’m in my early 30s and based in London, UK, so reports are from here unless otherwise noted.
Tinder Beckons
I hate Tinder, simply because online dating hides many of the fundamentals I’ve worked on, and my photos are somehow worse than real life (so I’ve been told by multiple women). Need to sort that someday. But in the meantime, it can be useful if you’re not always feeling up for approaching – and fancy breaking a dry patch.
At the end of May this year, I matched with this 24-year-old thin blonde Hungarian. Here are the messages:
[My side comments for you are in square brackets]
22:58 Me: I see you like lifts, rooftops, and have good taste in men
what else would I enjoy discovering about you, HBHungarian? [the lifts/rooftops bit is a reference to her photo locations – I invented this template message, feel free to use it, you’re welcome guys ]22:58 Her: Hahaha
22:59 Her: What a great start line (applause emoji)
23:00 Her: Well there is a lot more to discover… believe me (monkey emoji)
23:02 Me: Well I totally agree with your tag line for starters [she had some profile line about men needing to experience a ‘bad girl’]
23:03 Me: I see you’re really into your red too [she was wearing a red dress in one of her photos]
23:03 Me: Passion or danger… or both?
23:09 Her: Maybe both
23:09 Her: You will need to find out
08:29 Me: Well how about a drink on Sunday evening and we’ll do just that [I think there was a reason I was pushing for that night as I had a packed schedule with other things]
At this point, she said her Mum was visiting so she offered to meet on Friday instead while ‘waiting for her Mum’. The need for her to meet her Mum afterwards would obviously be a problem for her coming home with me, so instead I suggested postponing til after the Mum’s visit. She told me when she’d be free and I re-initiated on that date:
17:27 Me: Hey HBHungarian, how was the week with your Mum? Hope she got to enjoy English breakfasts with a bit of palinka
18:27 Her: It was great!
we laughed a lot.18:28 Her: What are you doing now?
18:46 Me: Have just arrived in X for the weekend – back Monday
18:46 Me: You around for drink early next week?
18:48 Her: Yes can be
18:49 Her: How tall are you? [Girls in London really seem to like asking this question lol!]
18:53 Me: 6’ [well, with a slight heel lol]
18:53 Me: You?
18:53 Her: 5’8
18:58 Her: Are you free on Tuesday?
From there I suggested a location and she suggested swapping numbers. All good. She checks the postcode (zip code for you Yanks!) with me over message, and I compliment her on being organised.
The Date
Always send a message on the morning of the date – because the girl’s wondering whether you’re still coming and may flake to protect her ego if you don’t:
08:03 Me: See you at 6 HBHungarian – I’ll have a brown jacket
08:10 Her: Okay
09:47 Her: This weather is so awful (rain emojis) [uh-oh – I smell a flake coming!]
09:47 Her: Do you work near X? [the place we’re meeting]
10:06 Me: I’m in Y area
10:29 Her: That is not so central. What do you do? [this conversation is not helpful right now, better saved for the date]
10:43 Me: Ask me tonight
15:55 Her: Would you mind if we would meet another time? [did my rebuff cause that perhaps? What would have been a better response?]
15:55 Her: I am not feeling very well
Damn. Now in the past I would have been like ‘Yeah sure no problem’, and of course would never have heard from the girl again. But Chase has taught me two things in these situations: 1) don’t let a girl off the hook, and 2) persist. So here we go:
15:55 Me:
15:56 Me: Problem is I am going to the US on Friday [this was true - and I'll write about this in future!]
15:56 Her: When are you back?
15:56 Me: July
15:56 Her: Uh
15:57 Me: Do you think you might be well enough for one drink? [persist!]
15:58 Her: Yeah maybe lets wait to see. I will message you a bit later
15:59 Me: (applause emoticon)
15:59 Her:
16:00 Me: It’s even stopped raining for you (sun emoticon)
16:55 Her: I’m feeling better
[oh yeah!]16:57 Her: I’m finishing in half an hour so if you want you can meet me a bit earlier. Otherwise, I will be at the bar reading my book.
16:58 Me: Glad to hear it
I can’t get there before 6 so I’ll see you in an hour17:00 Her: Okay
17:06 Her: Btw how tall are you? [lol, remember this?!]
17:06 Her: Oh I remember sorry
17:06 Me: Haha you already asked that
17:06 Her: 6’
17:06 Her:
17:06 Me: Tall enough
17:06 Her: Okay (laughing emoticon)
17:07 Her: Good good
17:16 Her: Btw my hair is very blonde now
17:16 Her: Not like on the pictures
There are a couple of pubs and a cafe around where I live, but girls in general refuse to come to my part of London (it’s only slightly out of central London, but in general they’re unfamiliar with it, it's not a party area, and there’s no real reason to go there unless you live there). So instead, I have a preferred bar that’s right next to the river in the city centre, a 20 minute walk and tube-ride to my place. Not ideal – it’s an extra handicap to test me, if you will, that I often still make work.
On the date, she shows up in a short skirt and looks like she’s prepared her hair. So I make sure to compliment this. I never used to compliment girls on their looks while in my ‘asshole phase’, but on a date, I feel like an initial compliment on her appearance helps to reinforce the romantic/sexual vibe and the habit of rewarding her compliance (she’s showed up, looking good for you). It also shows that you notice details – men often miss when women have put effort into their hair, their compliments are usually a more generic ‘you look great’ or something.
I’m used to deep-diving now and getting the girls to do most of the talking, and she complies no problem. I throw in a couple of ‘chase frames’, can’t remember what I said as it’s a while ago now. But as well as work and travel, we get to talking about Tinder experiences and fun things like that. I made sure to emphasise that I’d be travelling to the US soon for 6 weeks, so she’s aware that it’s now or never with me
I also make sure we talk a bit about sex, favourite positions etc – she gets very into this but it’s too long ago for me to remember the details. Bringing up sex is something I often used to forget to do, and usually got slotted into ‘boyfriend-zone’ as a result.At some point in the conversation, she reveals she’s reading what is basically a women’s ‘pick-up book’. I assume this means something that advises a ‘3-date rule’ or other advice that won’t help the situation! But I decide not to let that dissuade me.
The Pull
About an hour and a half in and after a couple of drinks, we get to the crucial moment:
Me: Well HBHungarian, I’m really glad I met you tonight, you’re a lot of fun.
Her: Yes, me too.
Me: Hey listen, we’ve just about finished our drinks. I live about 10 minutes away from here, how about we go and hang out there and have a nightcap before calling it a night? [the first few times you suggest this to a girl, you’ll feel nervous and it will show. Eventually you get used to it and it’s just a normal outcome to the conversation]
Her: Um, well it’s the first time we’re meeting.
Me: Sure, we’re having a good time, and I’ll be going away soon, I want us to make the most of it (warm smile)
Her: I will think about it. I’m going to the bathroom and I’ll let you know when I’m back.
I’ve had this ‘I’ll think about it in the bathroom’ response a couple of times in the past. It’s never guaranteed, but so far it’s always been a positive for me – I think they just have to text their friend, spray some extra perfume or something like that! Anyway, she comes back and says OK.
At My Place
Like I mentioned, it’s 15-20 minutes from the bar to my flat (apartment!), using public transport. Plenty of things can go wrong during this time. You can avoid most of them by just keeping the conversation going throughout, even if it’s boring stuff, so that she’s still focused on having a good time with you, rather than getting distracted or nervous and deciding to bail.
We eventually make it back. She sits on the sofa, I suggest a glass of wine and she agrees. We chat a little bit, she seems comfortable, so I go in for the kiss. She kisses but pulls back first, with a smile – I need to get in the habit of doing that myself! It’s probably what her dating advice book says
Anyway I re-initiate, start caressing and escalating. She’s breathing heavily, but won’t allow me to remove clothes despite several attempts. I decide a bit of logic won’t go amiss – I smile warmly, tell her that I like her, and find it difficult to keep my hands off her with the way she keeps looking at me. She laughs and tells me I’m very forward.
I also tell her that I’ll be going away to the US soon which is a shame but means I know we have to make the most of the moment. She agrees it’s a shame I’m going away. I tell her that I’m looking out for the two of us here, that I’m a forward guy and that’s a good thing as most guys are too scared to go for what they want. This seems to have a positive effect on her somehow and she agrees with me on that.
I also check whether she’s on her period (I’ve often found that this is a block for women getting physical – not because they don’t want to, but because they’re worried about a guy’s reaction). I tell her: “Look, I really don’t care about that, it’s a totally natural thing.”
Well, some or all of the above does the trick – we go back to kissing on the sofa, and this time she’s enthusiastic about me removing the clothes. After getting her down to her underwear, I pick her up with her legs wrapped around my waist, carry her through to my bedroom, throw her on the bed and continue the good work
I tell her she has a gorgeous body (which she does). From there it’s plain sailing, and she’s a bit of a moaner, which I like!I just wish I’d taken her advice and put the towel down over my bottom sheet!
The Afterglow
After sex, we lie naked in my bed and chat for a bit. She told me how the guys in the office (she’s a PA) were staring at her short skirt today, and would be asking her how tonight’s ‘date’ went in the morning. I told her I was glad to have been of service in making sure she had a good story to tell
She also showed me her dating book, ‘How to Get the Guy’, or something. I started reading it and found it pretty entertaining to see things from the other side – though I couldn’t find any reference to first-date sex... Oh well
