trying to improve social life, curious odd trend.

[Limp]

So I've posted before, and, to save space, that background is here viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2307. To add to it, I'm rarely invited to things by others (1-4x/yr) and often when I try to set things up with other individuals or groups of friends they fall through. Likewise, dates flake. Outside of work, I spend 95% of my day alone and most of the rest are out, but still solo (no interaction). The one place that I do go out, people know me and are eager to dance, but that's pretty much where it ends. Rarely have conversations, almost never beyond the superficial.

Based on this, I would assume I'm unpopular and/or the psychic vampire of the post a few weeks ago.

However, I've had a trend lately of friends (here I'm talking people that were former HS/college friends, some of which I still see 1-2x/yr, others I haven't seen since then, but we stay in touch somewhat on facebook) who spot me somewhere, get really excited and go out of their way to get my attention (in one case last year one hurried out from behind the pharmacy counter to catch me as I left the grocery store) and catch up briefly. We'll leave on good terms, one of us (50/50 which) suggesting we catch up more later. I never hear from them if I don't send a message. If I do, it's never returned. If I invite them to something, even parties I've tried to set up with mutual friends invited, there is no response and they never show. These are usually guys and they are straight, so I'm not really sure what gives. If I was a 'vampire' or they simply didn't like me, I would think they'd go out of their way NOT to be seen by me instead of this.

 

[Marty]

Hey Limp,

Just skim-read your linked other post as well as reading this one in full.

I am not qualified to advise on dating/relationship issues, but as far as your social confidence goes, two things come to mind:

1. Not sure what you do for a living, but in just about any white-collar job, you can improve your social confidence and your job performance at the same time by forcing yourself, against your introverted nature, to share information face-to-face with the users of the information or service you provide. Don't attach it to an email, walk them through it. It'll get you noticed at work and do wonders for your social confidence too. I went through this process over 10 years ago and I've coached others through it, so I know what I'm talking about.

2. Don't sweat the fact that purely social (non-romantic) acquaintances are flaky with regard to meet-ups. English-speaking cultures are notorious in the rest of the world for (a) people saying things like "We simply MUST do lunch" and then not following through; and (b) scheduling social calendar events such as dinner invitations four or more weeks in advance, as if they just can't find an opening to do it sooner. Laugh it off and live with it. Soon enough you'll find yourself doing it too!

 

[Estate]

Sorry I couldn't find the link but Chase has 1-2 articles on making friends, guy talk, networking and so on.

Ok, I have come on HUGELY in this area in the last 1 months. I was in the exact same position. I "knew" lots of people but never invited out, they rarely returned calls/messages, we were never on bad terms, we'd always have a blast when we saw each other but they were just generally flakey and unreliable.

I can only give MY conclusions so here we go:

- I gave up on "old friends". If I ran into one outside work, at a bar or somewhere else, they'd be all over me asking how I am and saying we must make plans. Especially so in a bar or night setting when they are buzzed it sounds like a great idea. But by the next week when you try to get in touch, they are back to being as flakey as ever. It was a VERY hard pill to swallow at the time but about a year ago I looked back over the past 2-3 years and realized that if I waited around for these people, I would never have a life. These were now acquaintances, if they came to me, we'd talk but it was unlikely or rare and I am no longer centering MY plans around their non-existant contact.
You don't need to fall out with them or burn bridges but generally just cut them out. I'd wait around on a Friday night for a call that never came. Instead I made MY OWN plans, even if it was just for myself to go out. And I followed through.
You can't change them, they moved on to other interests, got in relationships, got other priorities and if they are generally unreliable without even knowing it, they won't change.

- Accept you need to make NEW friends. Make yourself busy CONSTANTLY. I made a google calendar for myself and planned in my entire week. Look for concerts, events, sports, plan a night out with yourself, schedule meetups and just go out. You'll be surprised how tired and rewarded you feel when you are just busy and not in your apartment all day watching TV.

- Seperate Gaming for girls and making friends. Many of the social skills you've learned still apply and will help you. For instance most of the time YOU need to approach and start conversations.
But you need to have a gameplan for a certain activity. Perhaps you decide to go along to a happy hour meetup or something. You need to consciously decide whether tonight you are going out to met women or if you are going out to make friends. I made the mistake early on of using certain events to scope out if there was hot girls and going to meet them while ignoring everyone else. I now see how much it stands out when a new guy comes along, zeroes in on the hot girls and ignores everyone else. If you want to make friends, you need to "butterfly" a little, jump around to making conversations with everyone, be inquisitive and genuinely interested in them. If you're there to meet friends then make that your focus for the night, not gaming girls.

- Where to meet friends? Now this depends on what you like to do or what people you like to be friends with but consciously decide this and figure out where they will be. Meetup.com is good. You don't have to like all of the activities but you can meet some cool people so just go to everything for a few weeks. I love playing sports so I join random sports leagues. Singles leagues and co-ed social leagues are the best, I joined baseball this summer just to learn how to play and it's been a blast and there is a very social side outside of the games. If you are a professional, look for networking groups, if you are a programmer, look for events, shows, presentations which go on around town... find your own niche here but the internet is a great starting point to find events.

- Familiarity breeds friendships. You will never show up to anything and have instant friends. It won't happen. If you go to an event this week, go to another again next week and you become friends with people as you repeatedly meet them. This is why meetup is good because you will see the same faces again without necessarily having to get their contact details the first night.

- Game for guys! Yes, sounds weird right but there's always someone else in your position. See a guy sipping a beer at the bar? Maybe he's new in town or is just like you, he'd love a drinking buddy. There's always the really social guys in any bar... go shit talk with him, he might introduce you to people. Right now my best drinking buddy is a French guy I met in a bar a few months ago. We both went to a Happy Hour thing which turned out to be mainly over-40's so we wound up in conversation as the only 2 20-somethings there, decided to bounce to another bar and got drunk and met some girls.... we've been going out at the weekends ever since.

- YOU have to make the first move. Just like dating, while making friends, people will flake on plans, not everyone is open to making new friends. They have their own group and stick to it. It's nothing personal. It's just the way it is.
When you do meet people you click with, ask them for their number or facebook or whatever... most people especially other guys are often afraid to do it themselves.

- YOU make the plans. This one stumped me for a long time. If I don't have friends, how can I make plans and invite others??? I got this advice a lot and I just didn't get it.
But here is where your contacts come in. You just need to arrange drinks with 1 person. From one of your activities, plan drinks with one other guy who you know is going to show.... now start telling everyone, even people you don't know well or just met...
Don't ask them will thy come, don't make the plans about them or ask where they want to go.
All you do is tell them "I will be at X-bar tomorrow at 9 with my buddy, we're gonna grab drinks, maybe go out to a club, come over!"
This makes it easier on them... some won't come some will but the activity is not on them to decide when and where... it means there is ALREADY a plan and they can also come along, meet new people and do something fun... you'll get way more takers.
The problem when I heard this advice from others is that they always suggest throwing a party at your house which is incredibly hard to do without knowing you have a soild group of people already going. I tend to suggest something like drinks at a bar meaning you literally just need 2 people and then the more the merrier!

- Overall, keep busy and go out alone. I know that sounds like it sucks but it really doesn't. Too much TV makes me feel depressed. Get outside, the sunshine and atmosphere in busy places perks me up no end.

Thats all I have for now, I'll try think of more. Best of luck.

 

[Nuncle]

Do you have something you are really, genuinely interested in but for some reason have never got into (eg. cycling, poker, board games, gardening). If so then do all you can to get into it. If you are mixing with people who have a shared passion then you will find interactions and conversations become a lot less forced and it no longer becomes such a big deal to suggest meeting up etc. because you both just really want to do the thing. It doesn't matter if the activity is not that "cool", who cares? But it does have to be a genuine passion. It can't be something you just select for the purpose.

An alternative strategy would be to stop chasing after friends. It's not very sprezzatura. You do what you want, what you enjoy and become entirely self-sufficient. If you eliminate the need for other people it gives you a lot more options in terms of how you can behave. I'm sure you've heard the expression"Power in any relationship rests with the one who needs it least".

But do this without being closed off, hostile or bitter. You just do your thing and if people want to come along with you, great, but you will enjoy yourself equally if they don't.

Worth thinking about.

Good luck either way.

 

[Limp]

Marty - I work with people literally 100% of my day. Face to face, hands on. Favorite of clients and student interns. Get along great with coworkers.

Estate- Some good points. Regarding your points at the bottom, I have been making the plans, they just don't show. And 99% of the time I do go out alone.

Nuncle - The one place I do go out is a genuine interest and is an interest of everyone else there. Just never do anything with anyone from there outside of the venue. It's not like I'm the pest bugging people all the time. I ask every few months. I'm also not sure I qualify as chasing after friends per se. I ask them once here and there and that's it. I get spezzatura and that, but if anything, I'm socially lazy or retarded. I don't need other people (as stated above I'm usually alone, even when I do go out), I just fear my level of isolation is a negative impact on my life and prevent me from getting things I want. I didn't care, but now I'm nearing 30 and see how far off the norm I am and it's a bit startling. Spezzatura, while being low effort and non-chalant also implies that you are actually getting what you want, just without much effort and that you have a take-it-or-leave-it. It doesn't mean that you are low effort and non-chalant about consistently failing to get what you want and don't do anything to improve your success. If any of the stories of chase and the others who've had turn-arounds are true, it's not because they sat there and said 'who cares I'm not getting what I want, FTW", but because they put in effort to hit a place where they no longer needed to AND still get what they want. I'm putting in the effort in spurts, getting next to no results, and then disappearing for spurts to focus on solo endeavors as constantly failing at something like this is depressing and exhausting and distracts from more important things.

 

[Nuncle]

Spezzatura, while being low effort and non-chalant also implies that you are actually getting what you want, just without much effort and that you have a take-it-or-leave-it. It doesn't mean that you are low effort and non-chalant about consistently failing to get what you want and don't do anything to improve your success. If any of the stories of chase and the others who've had turn-arounds are true, it's not because they sat there and said 'who cares I'm not getting what I want, FTW", but because they put in effort to hit a place where they no longer needed to AND still get what they want

I see what you mean in general but would say this particular goal is a bit different as it relates to the fundamental question of how you relate to other people. If what you really, really want is, say, lots of money then the money isn't going to see you as needy, it's not going to take advantage of you or lose respect for you. You won't feel like you've supplicated yourself to money on a personal level or that the money has rejected you if you don't get any.

This is what I was trying to get at with "Sprezzatura". You can be dominant without being popular. You can be respected without being popular. I was putting out the idea (and it was only intended as food for thought) that there are more ways to successfully relate to people than trying to make them your friends. And in fact if you take the idea of making (or keeping) them your friends out of the equation that can give you more strength in your dealings with them.

And of course the other argument is that if you stop worrying about it, it might well make you more "likeable" just as it can help with women if you act blase around them.

Admittedly my argument holds more weight when one is in one's thirties like me. Friendship seems more vital in one's twenties (for me anyway). Again, just a thought really.