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- Jul 17, 2013
- Messages
- 1,554
He did express himself toward others with a level of assertiveness that was exceedingly uncomfortable, I can imagine. And it might have been a commonsense approach to post a few dozen LRs first to establish credibility. That aside:
Did he have a point though? For example when he wrote that I "need to think more sexual and less romantic TV actor"?
I read how you answered him about the philosophy and ethics of this site, Franco. I can only applaud those sentiments; however, I wonder whether some of us who are lower-achievers (thinking of myself first and foremost), in our efforts to "take care of a girl's emotions" are sacrificing real results?
I'm eager to learn, but I'd be the first to admit that I'm not very good.
Did he have a point though? For example when he wrote that I "need to think more sexual and less romantic TV actor"?
I read how you answered him about the philosophy and ethics of this site, Franco. I can only applaud those sentiments; however, I wonder whether some of us who are lower-achievers (thinking of myself first and foremost), in our efforts to "take care of a girl's emotions" are sacrificing real results?
I'm eager to learn, but I'd be the first to admit that I'm not very good.
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2012
- Messages
- 3,637
Marty,
This is something I've been emphasizing that you need to do since the beginning!
What I do understand is that, the older you are, the harder it is to re-train your mental model of the world. So when you see people like Richard having so much success at 18, it's that he was still forming his mental model of how he wanted to view the world (and women) and, luckily, he was able to reach this material to influence his decisions before he already had them made.
In your case, it's almost like you have an extra whole "step" to accomplish because you need to "unwind" everything you thought you knew about women and relationships; then once you've taken that step backwards, you can take three steps forward (with an open mind and a new approach).
It should be pretty evident by now that guys like Richard and NarrowJ (who post field reports) are successful because they push the limits with sexuality. They know what women really want (sex), and the more they understand it, the more they can use it to their advantage and their strategy when approaching women. It's why I've mentioned that you should take some "bolder" chances and become more sexual with women and see where it takes you. I still feel like you might be worried that you're offending women, but women will often act offended to see how YOU react to THEIR reaction. If you take a step back after doing that, they'll drill you into the ground. That's just the way women are. They want you to be congruent with your previous actions because it's their only way to see if you are who you say you are.
The more boundaries you're willing to test early on, the faster you'll learn. Anatman is probably a prime example of that: he tries bold moves knowing that he has abundance mentality and that he can always try the same thing or something else with the next woman. If you're not a bad person, then you need to not worry about what a woman will think of you right in the moment. At the very most, it will be something she thinks about for a week and then forgets about it.
So essentially, being aggressive = faster learning and results. And I think you already know that I've said this before, Marty. =)
- Franco
This is something I've been emphasizing that you need to do since the beginning!
What I do understand is that, the older you are, the harder it is to re-train your mental model of the world. So when you see people like Richard having so much success at 18, it's that he was still forming his mental model of how he wanted to view the world (and women) and, luckily, he was able to reach this material to influence his decisions before he already had them made.
In your case, it's almost like you have an extra whole "step" to accomplish because you need to "unwind" everything you thought you knew about women and relationships; then once you've taken that step backwards, you can take three steps forward (with an open mind and a new approach).
It should be pretty evident by now that guys like Richard and NarrowJ (who post field reports) are successful because they push the limits with sexuality. They know what women really want (sex), and the more they understand it, the more they can use it to their advantage and their strategy when approaching women. It's why I've mentioned that you should take some "bolder" chances and become more sexual with women and see where it takes you. I still feel like you might be worried that you're offending women, but women will often act offended to see how YOU react to THEIR reaction. If you take a step back after doing that, they'll drill you into the ground. That's just the way women are. They want you to be congruent with your previous actions because it's their only way to see if you are who you say you are.
The more boundaries you're willing to test early on, the faster you'll learn. Anatman is probably a prime example of that: he tries bold moves knowing that he has abundance mentality and that he can always try the same thing or something else with the next woman. If you're not a bad person, then you need to not worry about what a woman will think of you right in the moment. At the very most, it will be something she thinks about for a week and then forgets about it.
So essentially, being aggressive = faster learning and results. And I think you already know that I've said this before, Marty. =)
- Franco
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2012
- Messages
- 3,637
UPDATE: This user is purposely trying to avoid IP bans and account creation rules to make more troll posts on the forums. I've cleared out most of them, but Chase may have to take action when he gets a chance to completely prevent this user from accessing the boards.
In the meantime, if you happen to see this user make posts of the same nature under a different name, please ignore them.
Thanks,
Franco
In the meantime, if you happen to see this user make posts of the same nature under a different name, please ignore them.
Thanks,
Franco
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2013
- Messages
- 1,897
Okay just chiming in on Marty's question, which is a good one, but one that has been coming up with Marty for a while.
Me thinks that if Marty had some homework to do to push his sexual boundaries we might be able to move past this faster rather than speculate that you need to be more sexual and take more risks.
Would you like some homework Marty? Perhaps zphix, franco, or some other experienced member could think of some easy challenges to get you out of your comfort zone.
Off the top of my head I'm thinking lead a girl you've just met in the park by the small of her back, like you've been dating her for years, to the swing set
... within 5 minutes of first approaching.
Just a thought...
-Rob
Me thinks that if Marty had some homework to do to push his sexual boundaries we might be able to move past this faster rather than speculate that you need to be more sexual and take more risks.
Would you like some homework Marty? Perhaps zphix, franco, or some other experienced member could think of some easy challenges to get you out of your comfort zone.
Off the top of my head I'm thinking lead a girl you've just met in the park by the small of her back, like you've been dating her for years, to the swing set
... within 5 minutes of first approaching.Just a thought...
-Rob
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2012
- Messages
- 6,551
Everyone,
This was a good move. I wasn't sure why in a sense and probably never understand the person, and probably never will but i guess i have a similar mindset to Chase, 200% of the time now, when it comes to people who have arguments.
They already made up their minds, even Marty noted this as excessively assertive.
Zac
This was a good move.
I wasn't sure why in a sense and probably never understand the person, and probably never will but i guess i have a similar mindset to Chase, 200% of the time now, when it comes to people who have arguments.They already made up their minds, even Marty noted this as excessively assertive.
Zac
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2013
- Messages
- 1,554
Franco:
That's a very thoughtful and understanding answer. Thank you.
You have of course emphasized the same point several times to me in the past... that's exactly why it hit home so hard: I knew it to be true (because you'd said it) and this fellow, say what you might about his lack of ordinary social graces and unhelpful forum behavior, did pick up on it at once.
I do indeed need to "deprogram" myself and I recognize that; why I actually got wrongly "programmed" in the first place is a mystery to me, but life's too short to go over that now. Anyway, the examples you cited with NarrowJ, Anatman and Zphix do actually make sense to me.
Rob is in many ways right... I hear you when you say "be more sexual", but I don't really always know what that looks like. I generally prefer a verbal explanation, but in this case I think I've been so badly "misprogrammed" that I might actually need to see a video scene or something that illustrates the "sexual boundary-pushing" concept complete with all the facial expressions, tone of voice, kino and body language. (There's a backstory here—Rob and I have seen each other in action: we did a joint field trip last weekend, I opened 6 girls and Rob I think a few more than that. FR to follow: it was kickin'!) Rob, I'll try your swing-set leading "homework" next time I'm in the park of a weekend, good suggestion!
There's one other thing I don't understand, Franco, stemming from what you wrote to the banned user: that girls "refer to many men as assholes". I can't imagine why. If this has ever been true of men, it certainly isn't in today's world: I just have to look around me to be sure of that.
In my last LTR I was constantly taking heat for not being like other men. "Tom's so good, he stays at home with the kids whenever Linda asks." "Dick bought his girlfriend a $2,500 bracelet for International Women's Day." "Harry's wife is rather ugly, yet he never looks at anyone else." In vain I would explain that I had never been like that and I didn't WANT to be like that, I was a red-blooded male who liked WOMEN.
"If you behave like this to me now, when I am young and beautiful, how will it be when I am old and wrinkled?" and so on and on and on, it was "doing my head in" as they say in Britain. More interestingly, no matter how "bad" a guy I supposedly was, she clung to me fast and I could barely shake her off despite my best efforts. The words and actions were totally incongruent and as the years passed by, she wanted sex more often than I was physically capable of giving it.
Yet like you, I hear these words on occasion: "Men are such assholes". My question is: where are all the assholes? Everywhere I look, I see fellows like Tom, Dick and Harry all around. The world seems to be full of them. Women should be jumping for joy, surely?
-Marty
That's a very thoughtful and understanding answer. Thank you.
You have of course emphasized the same point several times to me in the past... that's exactly why it hit home so hard: I knew it to be true (because you'd said it) and this fellow, say what you might about his lack of ordinary social graces and unhelpful forum behavior, did pick up on it at once.
I do indeed need to "deprogram" myself and I recognize that; why I actually got wrongly "programmed" in the first place is a mystery to me, but life's too short to go over that now. Anyway, the examples you cited with NarrowJ, Anatman and Zphix do actually make sense to me.
Rob is in many ways right... I hear you when you say "be more sexual", but I don't really always know what that looks like. I generally prefer a verbal explanation, but in this case I think I've been so badly "misprogrammed" that I might actually need to see a video scene or something that illustrates the "sexual boundary-pushing" concept complete with all the facial expressions, tone of voice, kino and body language. (There's a backstory here—Rob and I have seen each other in action: we did a joint field trip last weekend, I opened 6 girls and Rob I think a few more than that. FR to follow: it was kickin'!) Rob, I'll try your swing-set leading "homework" next time I'm in the park of a weekend, good suggestion!
There's one other thing I don't understand, Franco, stemming from what you wrote to the banned user: that girls "refer to many men as assholes". I can't imagine why. If this has ever been true of men, it certainly isn't in today's world: I just have to look around me to be sure of that.
In my last LTR I was constantly taking heat for not being like other men. "Tom's so good, he stays at home with the kids whenever Linda asks." "Dick bought his girlfriend a $2,500 bracelet for International Women's Day." "Harry's wife is rather ugly, yet he never looks at anyone else." In vain I would explain that I had never been like that and I didn't WANT to be like that, I was a red-blooded male who liked WOMEN.
"If you behave like this to me now, when I am young and beautiful, how will it be when I am old and wrinkled?" and so on and on and on, it was "doing my head in" as they say in Britain. More interestingly, no matter how "bad" a guy I supposedly was, she clung to me fast and I could barely shake her off despite my best efforts. The words and actions were totally incongruent and as the years passed by, she wanted sex more often than I was physically capable of giving it.
Yet like you, I hear these words on occasion: "Men are such assholes". My question is: where are all the assholes? Everywhere I look, I see fellows like Tom, Dick and Harry all around. The world seems to be full of them. Women should be jumping for joy, surely?
-Marty
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2012
- Messages
- 3,637
Marty,
Well, when you're speaking of married men (or men in relationships where they are already deeply involved), then it's hard to see where all the assholes actually are. Many of the assholes exist in their 20s, and if you were to live the life that I do now (which is going out to bars and clubs on the weekends), you would spot assholes everywhere. Girls starting drama in the middle of bars and clubs, guys cheating on their girlfriends right in front of them, girls finding out their best friends are having sex with the man they're involved with -- it's literally everywhere.
Now, that's not to say there aren't still men that aren't "assholes" that are married as well. When a woman tells you about something "nice" that another man did for another woman, she's just pointing out things that she thinks she wants men (you) doing for her. Remember, women consciously think they want their men to treat them like princesses in relationships, but subconsciously they go the craziest over the men they can't control. Also, buying expensive gifts for women is a "provider" role that of course everyone on the block will hear about because it makes the woman and the man look good in society's eyes, but for all you know, she could be cheating on him on the side with the lover who's giving her the wild, passionate sex that she desires at the primal level. Women have to work between the boundaries of society and true desire.
There are definitely more "nice guys" out there then there are "assholes." They are the guys you'll see every day on the streets holding hands with a girl (or wishing they could hold hands with a girl that you don't know about). But if you head to competitive scenes like night venues, you'll tend to see a lot more of the assholes show up trying to get their next lay (whether they've got a girlfriend or not). The assholes are not nearly as common as the nice guys, but remember, women desire the most DESIRABLE men the most, so the only men you'll hear women openly complain about are the assholes who they can't tie down because, guess what? Other women desire them TOO! So these men bounce from woman to woman because they know how to play their cards to do so. As far as nice guys, women will never complain about them -- they'll simply accept their gifts and compliments and continue chasing the assholes on the side.
There's a lot to understand here that really is only best understood when experienced. If you've been living a life that is sheltered away from the assholes, then you won't really notice them. On the other hand, if you're seeing them every weekend like I am, then you start to think, "man, aren't there nice guys out there that can provide the thrill that THESE guys do to these women?" And that's where this website comes in: we teach men where to walk the line. Seduction is really about finding the middle ground in everything -- don't be too nice or she won't respect you and see you as a lover and potential partner; don't be too aggressive or she'll be creeped out by you or feel like she doesn't know you. And everything else related to women is that way as well.
You are making progress, Marty, even if it is slow and steady. If you haven't already noticed, your failures have taught you more than your successful interactions. Every time something doesn't go the way you thought it would go, it provides evidence to you that there is something else at play in the girl's mind that you are not understanding, and by process of elimination, you'll eventually arrive at each answer.
Of course, there's always the option to be more sexual and aggressive while taking a leap of faith... you still might be surprised by the results.
- Franco
Well, when you're speaking of married men (or men in relationships where they are already deeply involved), then it's hard to see where all the assholes actually are. Many of the assholes exist in their 20s, and if you were to live the life that I do now (which is going out to bars and clubs on the weekends), you would spot assholes everywhere. Girls starting drama in the middle of bars and clubs, guys cheating on their girlfriends right in front of them, girls finding out their best friends are having sex with the man they're involved with -- it's literally everywhere.
Now, that's not to say there aren't still men that aren't "assholes" that are married as well. When a woman tells you about something "nice" that another man did for another woman, she's just pointing out things that she thinks she wants men (you) doing for her. Remember, women consciously think they want their men to treat them like princesses in relationships, but subconsciously they go the craziest over the men they can't control. Also, buying expensive gifts for women is a "provider" role that of course everyone on the block will hear about because it makes the woman and the man look good in society's eyes, but for all you know, she could be cheating on him on the side with the lover who's giving her the wild, passionate sex that she desires at the primal level. Women have to work between the boundaries of society and true desire.
There are definitely more "nice guys" out there then there are "assholes." They are the guys you'll see every day on the streets holding hands with a girl (or wishing they could hold hands with a girl that you don't know about). But if you head to competitive scenes like night venues, you'll tend to see a lot more of the assholes show up trying to get their next lay (whether they've got a girlfriend or not). The assholes are not nearly as common as the nice guys, but remember, women desire the most DESIRABLE men the most, so the only men you'll hear women openly complain about are the assholes who they can't tie down because, guess what? Other women desire them TOO! So these men bounce from woman to woman because they know how to play their cards to do so. As far as nice guys, women will never complain about them -- they'll simply accept their gifts and compliments and continue chasing the assholes on the side.
There's a lot to understand here that really is only best understood when experienced. If you've been living a life that is sheltered away from the assholes, then you won't really notice them. On the other hand, if you're seeing them every weekend like I am, then you start to think, "man, aren't there nice guys out there that can provide the thrill that THESE guys do to these women?" And that's where this website comes in: we teach men where to walk the line. Seduction is really about finding the middle ground in everything -- don't be too nice or she won't respect you and see you as a lover and potential partner; don't be too aggressive or she'll be creeped out by you or feel like she doesn't know you. And everything else related to women is that way as well.
You are making progress, Marty, even if it is slow and steady. If you haven't already noticed, your failures have taught you more than your successful interactions. Every time something doesn't go the way you thought it would go, it provides evidence to you that there is something else at play in the girl's mind that you are not understanding, and by process of elimination, you'll eventually arrive at each answer.
Of course, there's always the option to be more sexual and aggressive while taking a leap of faith... you still might be surprised by the results.
- Franco